I hate to change the subject around here - but - Obama/Biden are working on healthcare reform.

[jillan]

First of all - Biden has confirmed that the stimulus plan that will be submitted to Congress right after inauguration includes funding for healthcare programs.

Second - Obama/Biden have asked community leaders all over the country to hold get-togethers this weekend to discuss healthcare and poverty and submit a summary to the transition team on how the new administration could help. They have said that they understand that people are busy with the holidays, but this cannot wait.


I know there is alot of things that people are unhappy with, but at the same time, there are great changes happening already.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20081226/NEWS01/812260319
(just one sampling from one community)

[Poiuyt]

1. How does Rick Warren feel about health care

[marimour]

43. lolol

[salguine]

58. He's okay with it if it's for straight people.

[Deja Q]

2. And I too will do my part.

I've already been walking more and lifting more, safely so I don't stress mistakes made by that sodding chiropractor that a quack practitioner thought was "anxiety", and I am going to get in shape. Besides, then I can point and laugh at all the porky 6~21 year old walking blubber pots with some impunity. :D

Actually, having seen a 40-something today, I might look just as grotesque and as I've had people point and laugh at me, it's time for a change.

[jillan]

6. I need to get back in shape too.

I have spent too many hours sitting infront of this computer over the last 2 years - ugh!

Thankfully I have an energetic puppy that thinks going for walks are the best thing in the world - so no more excuses for me.

[BanzaiBonnie]

21. Puppies are good for getting us walking

The Wii is also fantastic.

My husband and I have been using Wii Fit for almost two months. I'm going slowly, but steadily down in weight.

When my husband first stepped on the Wii board and got his weight and BMI, he sadly intoned, "I knew I was overweight, but I didn't think I was obese". He's not obese anymore. Down to just overweight.

And the new puppy we have is keeping us both walking.

[Maru Kitteh]

31. Wii........... Wiiiiiii

I'm obsessed.

[jwirr]

3. This is the first I have heard about it. Does anyone have the info on

who what when and where? Many of us would like to be involved.

[jillan]

11. Google 'health care forums'

Many states and cities are holding them.

[jwirr]

15. Okay, thanks.

[csziggy]

25. Check MyBarackObama.com in Events for your ZIP code

I know the doctor who lead the health care forum here listed his event in the calendar.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. People are seeing more of the same, that's what makes them unhappy

Everyone who voted, voted for complete change.

[babylonsister]

9. Whaaa, as usual. nt

[K Gardner]

5. I thought I was on the wrong board. No "Warren" in your post. Good info, Pirhana, thanks !

[jillan]

13. I totally understand that people are upset for good reason, but there are other things happening -

good things. Things we voted for.

[John Q. Citizen]

41. maybe. What did you vote for? My number one issue is health care and I knew that

the Dem front runners all had crappy patchwork redundant wasteful plans that aren't going to be viable because they waste money on overhead and complexity instead of putting that money to health care.

Most of the plans are some version of Romney's Republican MA style mish mash health care plan which isn't controlling costs and is a stupid and unworkable non-solution. Look at what's happening right now on the ground. Tax payers are subsidizing private insurance companies. why would costs go up? Duh!

Look at the plans that are coming before the Senate. I didn't vote for the Baucus plan in 2008. It is wasteful and complex, inefficient, redundant, and probably bound to fail even if enacted, but it does have a few really good things in it if they aren't cut out.

It has

Community Rating (which means everyone pays the same for the same coverage regardless of individual factors)
A mandated minimum coverage provision (whatever they end up being)so all policies will have to cover certain things
A community risk pool that will compete with private risk pools.

So you see my problem? I'm one of the left, you know, the folks that said going into Iraq was a stupid idea, that said letting the foxes guard the hen house is a stupid idea, that sees corporate power mushrooming and wants to reverse that trend and get things back in balance.

We've been right about everything right down the line. And we are right about health care, right now.

I just want us to have the opportunity to show all the open minded folks in the Obama administration why we are right. And to have them actually think about and consider the different ideas out there. Now remember, most of those people in the Obama administration have been wrong about a whole lot of things, from Iraq, to the economy, to health care.

So that's our dilemma. How do we get a seat at the table, because our winning vote didn't do it for us, yet.

[Danger Mouse]

7. Hey pirhana...love your sigline.

:hug:

[jillan]

12. I hope your holidays are going well.

:hug: back at ya!

[Danger Mouse]

14. They are, and I hope yours are too.

:pals:
Do you have facebook?

[jillan]

42. Nope - no facebook.

I have been asked that question alot lately, so I guess it's something I need to do.

I'll pm you when I do it :)

[John Q. Citizen]

8. Insurance Companies, Rick Warren and big pharma. If Obama won't tell Rick to fuck off will he tell

it to big pharma or mega insurance?

or will he make nice with corporate rip off care?

[K Gardner]

10. Oh for gods sakes.. this ONE thread is NOT about Warren. Don't make it that way.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. Make what which way? We have to demand. Sending good vibes is super groovy, but

super groovy is for flakes.

We have a bunch of corporate shills all telling us to take what they want to give us.

I say we don't have to take that shit.

[K Gardner]

17. This thread is about health care and poverty. There are 10,000 other threads about Rick Warren. If

that is the single focus of your life, then there are people here obviously more than happy to blanket the forum with Warren threads.

I work in an emergency room. I see people die every. fucking. day. There is nothing "super groovy" about that. And I say, I don't want to see THAT shit anymore.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Health care and corporate shills are synonymous. Don't tell me you haven't heard?

[K Gardner]

36. Of course I have, and now you're on point :-) I don't know how Obama will break

the stranglehold that ins companies, big pharma and corporations have on healthcare..

But I am sure we ARE going to see change. I think we're nearing a revolt in the streets over healthcare and poverty and hunger. And whatever Obama needs from me, I am ready to do.

Jan. 21st cannot come soon enough.

[Jane Austin]

30. Thank you for this - and for your work in the ER.

There is so much negativity here, and when someone like you posts something positive, I am struck that there are a few people who want to pee on everybody's happiness and hope.

If they don't have any, I am sorry, but please allow us to have ours.

[stillcool]

18. Perhaps you should see if one of those forums

is going on near you? Be a great place to voice your concerns.

2 health-care forums slated
Posted: December 24, 2008

INDIANAPOLIS » Community Health Network is hosting a town hall meeting on health-care reform from 3 to 5 p.m. Tuesday at Community Hospital East, 1500 N. Ritter Ave. The event is intended to answer the incoming Obama administration's call for community discussions to collect ideas that can be turned into policy recommendations. Another forum will involve Tom Daschle, secretary-designate for the Department of Health and Human Services, and the presidential transition health policy team. This meeting is from 4:30 to 6:30 p.m. Monday at North United Methodist Church, 3808 N. Meridian St. For a seat, contact Les Zwirn at [phone] or [e-mail]. (Star report

http://www.indystar.com/article/20081224/BUSINESS/812240336/1003/BUSINESS

[John Q. Citizen]

24. I've been. I got to speak with Baucus' staff person here in Missoula, MT They have made up thier

minds based on purely ideological considerations, according to Baucus. He says single payer is off the table, period, even if people want it and it works better.

so maybe if you are near IN you can go to that meeting. I sure hope someone does and tells Mr Daschle that we want a side by side cost analysis with any plan and a single payer version of the same plan so we see what we are getting for our money.

[stillcool]

26. No..I'm in MA...

Looked around to see if there was anything going on here and didn't find anything. Maybe some states are more adversely affected than others?

[John Q. Citizen]

27. You got the othe big gun there. Tell Teddy single payer.

[babylonsister]

19. Hi, pirhana. I think the next admin has every intention of changing

and reforming healthcare, and I think it's a high priority. Thanks for emphasizing what's really important.

:fistbump:

[ThisThreadIsSatire]

20. They're not working on "this or that"...

They're multi-tasking -- if they weren't, we'd all be screwed.

[applegrove]

23. Yes there is much in the way of good news from the Obama camp. Which is more

than we can say for the last 8 years of Bush.

[Life Long Dem]

28. Sounds like house gatherings to rally for healthcare and poverty issues.

Where everyone gathers in front of the fireplace all nice and cozy, to talk about the issues. :grouphug:

[PatSeg]

29. Thanks!

There was so many issues to address. It is sad that discussions here have become so limited.

[OneBlueSky]

32. unfortunately, the one thing that will truly reform healthcare won't happen , . .

a dollar says that whatever system they come up with will retain HMOs and insurance companies at its core . . . so that whatever percent of our healthcare dollar that goes to corporate profits, executive salaries and perks, marketing and advertising, etc. will still be part of the equation . . .

the corporations are too powerful for Obama to take them on and remove their noxious presence from our healthcare system -- and I don't think he wants to do that anyhow . . . whatever the "solution," you can rest assured that the billions of dollars that are siphoned off by the corporations will continue to fill their coffers, though maybe is some kind of modified form . . .

there's change, and then there's the appearance of change . . . my guess is that we're in for the latter -- and that the rich will continue to get richer at our expense . . .

[1776Forever]

33. You mean the subject of the Warren issue - Did you know this is connected to the healthcare issue?

Yes, Rick Warren wants all churches to be linked to giving health care from churches! He is trying to get his foot into the faith-based money even further then he all ready has with W's backing, and if you do any research on it you will find that this is on HIS terms. The P.E.A.C.E. Plan is laid out here in black and white and in Time Magazine no less:

The Global Ambition of Rick Warren
By David Van Biema
TIME Magazine

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1830147,00.html

(snip)

If Warren were content to be merely the most influential religious figure on the American political scene, that would be significant enough. He isn't. Five years ago, he concocted what he calls the PEACE plan, a bid to turn every single Christian church on earth into a provider of local health care, literacy and economic development, leadership training and spiritual growth. The enterprise has collected testimonials from Bono, the First Couple, Hillary Clinton, Obama, McCain and Graham, who called it "the greatest, most comprehensive and most biblical vision for world missions I've ever heard or read about." The only thing bigger than the plan's sheer nerve is the odds against its completion; there are signs that in the small country Warren has made a laboratory for the plan, PEACE is encountering as many problems as it has solved.

...

So many DU'ers still don't get the significance of the Warren selection! It just isn't about gay marriage - although that is extremely important issue - it is also about women's issues, health care, faith-based money issues and more!

[cali]

34. OK, this is the very definition of a stretch.

yes, it's a terrible pick. it has understandably sparked outrage, but trying to link Warren giving the fucking invocation to health care and the economy is just ridiculous. beyond ridiculous. His selection is not to any kind of a policy position. Oh, and the snippet from the article you posted says exactly nothing about Obama's plan for health care. zilch, nada, zip.

[1776Forever]

37. So you don't think this is showing that Obama is leaning toward giving Warren a role in this?

1st let me get this straight -

* Are you saying you believe the treatment being received by GLBT citizens of Africa as condoned by Rick Warren is OK:

As reported in this article from the Huffington Post by Bruce Wilson

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-wilson/warren-endorsed-nigerian_b_153412.html

The Kampala Monitor reports:

Dr Warren said that homosexuality is not a natural way of life and thus not a human right. "We shall not tolerate this aspect at all," Dr Warren said.

Warren was speaking in support of Ugandan Anglicans who intend to boycott the forthcoming Lambeth Conference, and this harsh rejection of tolerance for gays and lesbians may have serious consequences in a country where homosexuals face harassment and and the threat of imprisonment.

Warren's comment is of a piece with his support for Martin Ssempa, the Ugandan evangelist who has been a keynote speaker at a Warren conference, and who has received US global AIDS prevention funds. As I wrote in August, Ssempa wants to ensure that homosexuality remains illegal and that gays and lesbians are identified in the public mind as sexual abusers. Ssempa calls for media censorship against opposing views and the dismissal of dissenting academics, and last summer he organised a rally with the theme "A Call for Action on Behalf of the Victims of Homosexuality", at which he railed against "molestation and sodomy."

* Are you saying you believe that it is OK for Warren's African church protege's to tell women who are beaten by their husbands that they should "try harder to please them" - as referenced here in this article:

Untold Consequences: Rick Warren's AIDS Activism
Kathryn Joyce on December 19, 2008 -

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/12/19/untold-consequences-rick-warrens-aids-activism

(snip)

How that flawed policy plays out can be disastrous. As journalist Michelle Goldberg noted at Religion Dispatches, one of Warren's protégés in Uganda, the rabidly anti-gay pastor Martin Ssempa, has interpreted Warren's faith-driven solutions to the HIV/AIDS epidemic by burning condoms at universities and offering faith-healing to disease-stricken congregants. Other PEPFAR grantees, as Jacobson's colleagues in the global AIDS movement have witnessed, use their funds to promote fundamentalist interpretations of marital roles, advising women that if their husbands beat them, they should try harder to please them.

.....

I believe this is saying to the nation - It is OK for us to go along with Warren's views on gays, Women's Rights, the way the gays are being treated in Africa to civil rights of all those who appose his beliefs.

I for one do believe in the 14th Amendment and think that this is not the right thing to do.

http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/0/8/7/4/8/p87480_index.html

Abstract:

While the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution has been interpreted by the U.S. Supreme Court to protect African American civil rights since the 1950s, it was first cited as protective of gay and lesbian civil rights only in 1996. This work analyzes the new social construction of gay and lesbian civil rights within the historical context of African American civil rights. I find that such a comparative analysis is key to understanding contemporary debates relating to same-sex marriage, since same-sex marriage policy is richly based upon the historical struggle in U.S. society to recognize interracial marriage. Furthermore, though the complicated hierarchy of legal case scrutiny created in recent decades by the Court seems incompatible with democracy and indicates to us that Fourteenth Amendment values of equal protection and due process cannot be taken at face value in the American system of government, I find that the Court's new inclusion, albeit limited, of gays and lesbians in the provisions of the Fourteenth Amendment shows us that the U.S. Constitution can still be a significant and promising source of rights. The Court now understands sexuality, like race, as a fixed characteristic. By constructing gays and lesbians as a legal entity in need of protection, the Court is making it easier for them to challenge discrimination.

.....

For any Progressive Democrat to believe otherwise is very dangerous because we are starting to compromise with beliefs like Warren's. All this back tracking by Warren, the "love" talk and the scrubbing of his website is not going to make this go away. Mark my words, you will see a tactical influence maneuver on Warren's part once the Administration is underway to include his P.E.A.C.E. Plan and his believes into the structure. It is dangerous for us to give him this voice. This wouldn't be so bad if Rick Warren was not encouraging such out and out division against gays and stating that women need to be more accepting of abuse!

Here is the website for PEPFAR -

http://www.pepfar.gov/c19532.htm

This is referenced and laid out in the Untold Consequences: Rick Warren's AIDS Activism
Kathryn Joyce on December 19, 2008 -

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2008/12/19/untold-consequences-rick-warrens-aids-activism

I rest my case and hope you will have an open mind.

[cali]

47. No. I think you're engaged in an argument that allows only

certain facts into play. Of course I didn't say I thought anything about Warren is OK, let alone his despicable actions in Africa. You know that. I find it discouraging that you play the game of putting words in another's mouth.

But again and I'm going for the Caps thing here: RICK WARREN'S CHURCH ACTIVITIES IN AFRICA OR ANYWHERE ELSE ARE NOT OBAMA'S POLICIES. Really, how hard is that to grasp?

Your case is simply not a case at all. It's beyond ridiculous to think that Warren will in any respect be in a position to effect policy, let alone dictate it.

[1776Forever]

53. I am not going to shout back at you - here is my answer though...

If and when Rick Warren is given a seat at the table to decide health care issues and people who did not heed the history lesson of his true motives will have to eat their hats. I don't want this hate spewing person anywhere near the future Administration and I hope that he is not given this opportunity but it sure looks like he will be right there and everything that he has said and done and promoted against GLBT and women will be forgiven and when it is he will think he can do it more and more. Time will tell, but right now this man is going to be placed in front of the world as part of Obama's Inauguration and that in itself is truly something that a true progressive should question.

[ColbertWatcher]

49. "not a natural way of life and thus not a human right" You should post this as its own thread.

I guess it just shows that Obama never watched "The West Wing" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82I7vgzfgE

Rick Warren is to Jerry Falwell as Intelligent Design is to Creationism: the latest version of the profitable lie.

You know, after watching that video, I wonder how many times Warren will step inside the White House as an honored guest?

[1776Forever]

51. Exactly! This is my question. I found this out looking at the Government page I referenced....

As a reference - Rwanda is the country Warren has chosen as his 1st Purpose-Driven national model. The goals of this program actually have some merit, but then you get into the hate speech spread about gays and the direction given to women to try to please their abusive husbands more so they won't abuse them, and it all just is astounding that Bono, Hillary and Bill Clinton, Obama and others have bought into this.

http://www.pepfar.gov/documents/organization/107838.pdf

Other Donors, Global Fund Activities, Coordination Mechanisms:

The United States is the largest HIV/AIDS bilateral donor in Rwanda, having provided over $100 million in 2007. Other major donors include the Global Fund, the Clinton Foundation, and governments of Belgium, Germany, Luxembourg. The Global Fund has awarded eight grants to Rwanda totaling $239 million for AIDS, TB, and malaria programs. The CNLS is the primary HIV/AIDS coordinating body. The Executive Secretary of CNLS chairs the PEPFAR Steering Committee, the GOR-USG co-management mechanism to ensure that USG program support complements the Rwandan national HIV/AIDS plan. Time Frame: FY 2008 – FY 2009

And this on the Rwanda Warren connection:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1093746,00.html

TIME
Warren of Rwanda
By DAVID VAN BIEMA Monday, Aug. 15, 2005

[K Gardner]

35. And some people look for only the negative to try to prove an unfounded point. Some disagree with

your conclusion and try to find the positive. Novel idea, I know. But try it.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/editorialsopinion/2008553818_edit24warren.html

------------------------------
ENOUGH of the furor over President-elect Barack Obama's selection of evangelical pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at the Jan. 20 inauguration in Washington, D.C.

On the surface, it sounds odd and, to some, offensive that a very Democratic politician such as Obama would pick a much more conservative man to offer this high-level prayer. On a much deeper level, however, Warren helps Obama build a connection to a part of America that feels left out of the new politics: evangelical Christians. White evangelical Christians voted 73 percent to 26 percent for Republican Sen. John McCain.

A different kind of politician would say, "So what? The evangelicals lost." But Obama is more focused on inclusion and building wide support for his ideas.

By selecting Warren, the Southern California pastor who hosted the informative forums on faith issues with both presidential candidates last summer, Obama moves beyond win-loss, we-they politics. He creates a broader coalition for the many sweeping changes he will offer.

Although Warren says he does not have anything personal against gays, he has condemned same-sex marriage.

If you think about the enormity of Obama's challenges, you realize including Warren is a smart way to gain support for profound changes in health care, education, boosting the middle class and changing course on foreign policy. Obama will need all the support he can get.

The incoming president thinks and acts big. His Cabinet attempts post-partisanship by including Republicans. He brought Democratic rivals into his administration.

By inviting Warren to participate, Obama does not change his own position about gay rights. He is a staunch supporter of those rights. He reaches out to create the broadest coalition possible to move our beleaguered country forward.

Copyright © 2008 The Seattle Times Company

[1776Forever]

38. My answer is in post #37 n/t

[bluedawg12]

39. So, there is furor over Warren even in Seattle, not just " DU stirrers?"

Maybe the controversy is bigger than some like to believe.

[K Gardner]

45. And they're sick of it there, too. Or maybe you didn't read the article.

[John Q. Citizen]

40. Another Warren post? .Did you get permission from the author to rip off his work? or is it

your work, yet more excuses and apologies for putting a bigot up on the world stage in my name?

[K Gardner]

46. WTF are you talking about?

[jillan]

48. ------

[marimour]

44. Thanks!

[Divine Discontent]

50. you had a story to discuss in your thread - healthcare - but you injected Warren into it

what do you expect? why do so many DUers feel the need to include the massive Warren controversy in their title, and thus sliming the people outraged with the mega-celeb poli-preacher being invited to our party when he has a record of HATE SPEECH.

There are so many ways to get your point across, but yet, many have felt the need to attack people who are expending energy as they see fit, with slams about how they choose to spend their time.

I agree with DUer yardwork, this is a momentous situation involving Gay rights - we have an absolute BIGOT being propped up, who is continuing in his bigot views even after being propped up and adding more grotesque statements to his collection. You're either on board with supporting GLBT full rights, or you're against them - but to make deriding comments about people's choice of where they focus their energy to push your own thread just says you didn't feel it had enough merit to stand on its own, even if it did! And this story did.

[K Gardner]

55. Please show me where Pirhana included Warren in the title of the post.

[Divine Discontent]

56. please don't insult my intelligence, nor your dignity that I've always felt you had.

[Bluebear]

52. Are they working on getting gay partners health care nationwide?

Or is that changing the subject?

[LWolf]

54. How the new admin can help:

Use the power of the bully pulpit to support HR 676.

No need to engage in long meetings, planning sessions, and sweat out cobbling together some sort of plan.

The best plan is already on the table.

[shayes51]

57. We had a health care discussion group

here in Northport, Alabama today. I just wrote an article for the paper and sent a report to the transition team.

[AZBlue]

59. I'm so glad that this is a priority for them!

Thank you for this post.

BTW, are you doing anything here for Inauguration Day? I think I may go to the ceremony-watching party the Dem Party is throwing and then go to an event at Dos Gringos in Chandler that night.

[MadHound]

60. So, will we join the rest of the industrialized world and have single payer UHC?

Or will we simply have another spackle job that leaves US citizens at the mercy of a for profit health care industry run for the profit of HMO's and insurance companies? Given Obama's track record and promises on this, I sadly think that it will be the latter, despite this going against the wishes of the majority of people in this country who want single payer UHC. So much for change on this issue, cosmetic change is what we'll get, not substantial change.