Rod Blagojevich is innocent....

[Blarch]

till proven guilty.

Sure, I saw Fitz's flashy presser, with that hollywood FBI hack. Sure, I heard parts of the tapes.

But what I don't see or hear is REAL EVIDENCE laid out in an indictment.

When can we expect an indictment ? Is there a time limit from the time of arrest ?

[Dennis Donovan]

1. He's trying to fuck with Obama...

Rod Blagojevich can seriously fuck off.:thumbsdown:

I trust Fitz MUCH more than Blago.

[grantcart]

2. He may be technically innocent even after a trial but still should be impeached

two completely different issues

He has lost all hope of governing.

[ColesCountyDem]

32. Amen!

Our state is paralyzed atm.

[Trajan]

3. The human mind is NOT a court of law ....

People do not require ordinances and laws in order to draw personal conclusions ...

Every person can see for themselves what evidence might exist, and draw their own personal conclusion as to whether a person has or has not done something wrong ....

It is clear, in my view, that Rod Blagojevic is a corrupting influence in the body politic, and whether or not he is eventually found guilty in a court of law is not the ultimate determining factor regarding his fitness to remain in office.

That is the personal conclusion I have drawn, and I need no court of law to tell me this ....

Blagojevic should step down from office, or be removed through due process ...

[Blarch]

12. Wait a sec.

"Every person can see for themselves what evidence MIGHT exist"

Thats the point, lets see the evidence before judging.

[Trajan]

13. I have seen the existing evidence ...

There is no other evidence that can be provided that can remove the stain of shame he has covered himself with ....

His actions are enough ... He is out as far as I am concerned ....

[mkultra]

34. i heard enough

he demanded money. Thats a crime.

[backscatter712]

4. In court, he's innocent until proven guilty. I'm not in court.

Only the judge and the jury have to assume innocence.

I'm not either of those. Neither is the Illinois legislature - they and we have every right to treat him with reasonable suspicion of guilt.

[southern_dem]

11. Correct

He may be innocent in a legal sense; that is for a jury to determine. Impeachment is a political vehicle and there is no requirement that the legal burden of proof be afforded the Governor.

[firedupdem]

5. You know....I agree that he is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law...

however, he's seriously fucking up by trying to smear Obama with his bullshit. There have been so many other things he's done that should have been enough to get his ass out of office but of course this issue is getting the most attention outside of Illinois.

I wish he would go away. Fucking with Obama and Valerie and Rahm is really not helping his case. He's done politically. Done...he cannot effectively govern any longer.

[w4rma]

6. I want to know what is taking the state legislature so long in impeaching that guy?!? (nt)

[mopinko]

18. they are working on it.

there is a committee meeting right now. (ok, not right this minute.)

[napi21]

7. You don't have all the information in Fitz's case. He even said that.

If this investigation has been going on for several years, there's a lot of info we haven't heard. Calm down and WAIT!

[camera obscura]

16. But I want it NOOOOOOW!

I'm gonna hold my breath until Fitzgerald does everything I say!

[mopinko]

19. and after all that time, this is the best they could do?

they couldn't even muster an indictment?

[Terry_M]

8. Rod Blagojevich is a politician, politicians are not people

and innocent until proven guilty does not apply to them. I personally choose to believe all of them guilty until they prove themselves innocent.

[Zynx]

9. Did you read this:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/pr/chicago/2008/pr1209_01a.pdf

[elehhhhna]

10. gee, blarch, you just saved us a lotta tax money! THANKS!!!

[leftstreet]

14. Blago for Fitness Czar!

[bluestateguy]

15. That is a legal standard only

It is not the standard by which we judge the fitness of elected officials to hold office.

[Unsane]

17. Hollywood FBI hack is right

what an over-the-top performance by that guy

[mopinko]

20. i gotta agree

i am a little tired of dems being investigated from day one, while thugs walk away from flaming minivans full of children.
if they had the goods, why don't they have an indictment. and hollywood hack? yes. so very over the top.

as far as his ability to govern, that has been undermined from day one by madigan, et al. the people of illinois be damned, he saw him as sitting in lisa's chair. they messed around with everything, gridlocked the legislature, and ran wild.
investigate some of those assholes while you are at it, fitz.

[TexasObserver]

21. Fitz is the most overrated US Attorney in the history of the country.

The governor may or may not be guilty of anything.

We know the Bush Justice Department is guilty as sin of using their power for political gain.

Fitz is their useful idiot.

[Dinger]

29. I Have To Agree With You (nt)

[ddeclue]

22. He filed a criminal complaint instead..

there won't be an indictment as far as I understand it - just a trial.

[Radical Activist]

23. He needs to be impeached NOW.

Illinois needs to move on with a real Governor. The Lt. Gov. is a much more appealing and more progressive alternative.

[bridgit]

24. Why 3 different shields behind him? Is that supposed to be 3 times the guilt before trial?

[RandomKoolzip]

25. He's a scumbag.

[DailyGrind51]

26. I've lived in Illinois for 57 years, believe me, Blago is guilty,

and Fitz has yet to reveal his cards.

[Blarch]

27. I also live here.

...and why is it that Fitz won't reveal his cards ?

EVIDENCE will make him resign ...IF there really is solid evidence.

[mikekohr]

28. ILLINOIS, -The Land of Larceny-

I suspect that much of the country is watching the roiling, boiling, criminal malfeasance of our latest Governor, Rod Blagojevich (D) with disbelief. The only disbelief Illinois residents experienced was that Hot Rod had actually ACCELERATED his greedy piggery after being placed under investigation and under the spotlight over three years ago by no less than Federal Prosecutor exemplar, Peter Fitzgerald.

We have a long bipartisan history of corruption in our statehouse and governor's mansion (not that Blagojevich actually spent much time there). Blago will likely be our second consecutive governor sent to prison, following grumpy George Ryan ® to the big house. A conviction of Blagojevich will result in Illinois having the distinction of four of the last eight of our governors convicted of corruption. A fifth Illinois Governor, William Strattan ® escaped conviction after indictment and trial.

Illinois politics reads like a list of comic book crooks like Secretary of State Paul Powell whose Springfield apartment was found to contain shoe boxes, stuffed with over $800.000.00 in cash, discovered after he suddenly died in office. Then there's Ryan's cast of henchmen like Rodger (The Hog) Stanley, or the puffy paramour, Scott Fawell. Fawell, a ganja smoking, prostitute frequenting, Caribbean bon viant, was persuaded to drop a dime on his former boss to save his fiancée from prison time.

The last gubernatorial opponant to run against Blagojevich, Judy Barr Topinka, was up to her eyeballs in a political cesspool filled to overflowing by Republican patronage chief Big Bill Cellini. The biggest stinker, in that particular cesspool, was the taxpayer funded sweetheart deal to refurbish the Abraham Lincoln Hotel in downtown Springfield. A state funded loan was herded through the legislature that only required that the insider developers pay back the loan in the rare years the white elephant actually manages to squeak out a profit. These are not terms generally available on the open market. In spite of these generous conditions, Topinka had at one point pushed legislation to absolve 75% of the loan’s principle of this boondoggle, leaving the taxpayers of Illinois holding the bag.

In a more personal example of how things work in Illinois, I had. in the early 1990's turned over internal United Parcel Service company documents in a class action lawsuit that was brought against the corporation because of tactics that forced many of its employees to work through their "unpaid," lunch hour, a direct violation of the "Fair Labor Standards Practice Act."

These documents established that UPS was not only aware of the practice but were actually tracking the percentage of drivers that were forced to work thru all or part of their lunch-time. UPS, upon learning of the uncovering of this document, responded by dispatching a lobbyist to Springfield and succeeded in having the law modified to exempt them -and only them- from legal culpability in this matter. Incredibly, in a separate vote, UPS came within one vote of getting a "retroactive exemption," for their violation of this law.

Attorney David Mark of Seattle, Washington, phoned me and sputtered in amazement that he was flabbergasted at how politics worked in Illinois. Attorney Mark told me it was like being witness to a scene out of the "Wild West," and that the UPS lobbyist was all but handing money out on the floor of the Illinois House and Senate.

Not much has changed in Illinois politics since then, only the names and faces.

mike kohr

Princeton, IL 61356

[DailyGrind51]

38. The path of corruption in Illinois begins on the fifth floor of City Hall in Chicago!

[DailyGrind51]

37. Only time will tell! Or, perhaps, the grand jury?

[NashVegas]

30. Can Someone Please Explain to Me How Living In Illinois or Chicago Gives One Automatic Credence?

Of Blago's guilt?

I mean, shit, I live in Nashville and the best I can say is that Keith Urban is *probably* gay. But until he marries his manager, it doesn't give me solid proof, you know?

[Blarch]

31. If you lived here you would know.

I am not defending Blago, just defending the system.

The guy is probably guilty as all hell. But lets give him his chance in court, like everybody else.

[DailyGrind51]

39. In Chicago, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to know about the corruption!

If you would like to keep tabs on "us", please read these on-line editions:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/

http://www.suntimes.com/index.html

[ElsewheresDaughter]

33. they(the repugs) want a special election to prevent another Dem Senate seat....PERIOD!......

I never trusted Fitzpatrick the way many here worshiped him while he was going after Scooter.

He is a loyal bushie first and formeost...ALWAYS

and he makes me ill

[Rosa Luxemburg]

35. he never got any further than Libby

that said it all

[slackmaster]

36. Only in the eyes of the government

I say he's guilty as sin.

[davsand]

40. I doubt they will convict on the "sexy" stuff like trying to auction the Senate seat.

They WILL, however, probably get a conviction and plea bargain on a lot of smaller stuff that will end up in some jail time spent. I have zero doubt that Fitz and Co had "the goods" for quite a while before they went public, and I think they acted when they did simply to head off Blago's appointment into that Senate seat.

Consider this: IF Blag had appointed someone to that seat, how much would YOU trust them since they, essentially, bought that appointment?

:shrug:

I know that folks not from Illinois get kinda tired of hearing us IL residents say that Illinois KNEW he was corrupt, but I also think it is impossible to explain just how dirty Illinois has always been when it comes to politics.

I'm willing to bet that there are not too many active Illinois Dems that can say they have NEVER seen a race where a state staffer was not getting paid to work the campaigns. I have seen it WAY to many times at local levels, and Blago's staff is no exception. Similarly, I know of several "lobbyists" that were working campaigns that were deemed "important."

I'm also willing to bet that there are not too many folks here that can say they never heard about state jobs being awarded based on political actions. Literally, it is a matter of who you know and what "references" you give. CMS (hiring for State of Illinois) got busted for this within the last couple years--and you KNOW that is on Blag's dime as far as Fitz is concerned.

Pay to play is not any secret in this state and it has been an open thing that access to "The Gov" was based on an opening ante of $50,000 into the war chest. It goes a lot higher in election years, so get your favor bought early and save.

Our "ethics" laws have been an absolute joke and people DO joke about them all the time. It has only been in recent times (at Obama's urging, I might add) that there has been much done about ethics in this state. Obama took time out of his campaigning to call Emil Jones (IL Senate Dem leader) to urge passage of that ethics reform bill. That bill has Blago worried enough that he was working to try and get his cash in before it takes effect on Jan One.

I dunno, YMMV, but I hove seen enough in politics in this state that I have zero personal doubt that Blago probably is guilty of a whole lot more than what they have been able to charge. I would NOT want to be called fur his jury because I honestly think he's so crooked he needs to screw his pants on in the morning.



Laura