Sioen Roux: President-elect Obama, you need to FIX THIS

[Bluebear]

The Oregonian
Saturday December 27, 2008

...Here's the problem: Warren isn't just hopelessly out of touch with the modern world. He's a dangerous bigot. In March of this year in Uganda, AllAfrica.com reported that Warren said gays are unnatural and not deserving of human rights.

Really? That language, if it was about Jews or blacks, would instantly be denounced loudly and publicly by voices across the political spectrum. But in Obama's America, that sort of hate apparently is acceptable -- as long as it's about gays.

Gays are still beaten and killed in America just for existing. Gay and questioning teens kill themselves at much higher rates than others. And wink-wink dehumanizing language like Warren's is the punk that gives people a rationalization for violence.

So to my friends on the left, please don't say that my dispute with Warren is "disagreements on certain social issues." Don't justify his hate as simply a difference of opinion. These are human lives I'm defending, and there is no "other side" to bigotry....

At the inauguration celebrating America's triumph over bigotry, we let a bigot open the festivities?

President-elect Obama, you need to fix this. Before more violence occurs against gays, you must publicly disavow Warren's comments and tell Americans that gays are full human beings deserving of full human rights. And if you support us, end "don't ask, don't tell," fight for adoption and marriage rights nationwide, outlaw discrimination and treat gays like the full humans they are, instead of second-class citizens.

Oh yeah, and tell Warren he is welcome at the inauguration -- in the audience.

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2008/12/rick_warren_at_the_inauguratio.html

[IndianaJones]

1. disinviting him would piss off all the bigots...and a large portion of DU. nt.

[elehhhhna]

2. too bad. if he said THAT, he's an asshat. Man of God? LOL!

also, baby j is gonna cry through the whole inaguration.

[dionysus]

21. if DU is too "bigoted" for you why don't you just go back to capital shill?

:eyes:

[No Elephants]

22. Pissing off bigots on their bigotry is a bad thing why?

[Maven]

3. K/R

[ruggerson]

4. there is no "other side" to bigotry

exactly.

[BeFree]

5. Well yes of course

And there will be Generals and soldiers there too, fresh from the killing fields of Iraq.

Really, there is no disagreement here with the idea that Warren is wrong with his words, ideas and actions. And that we also agree that words, ideas and actions from some of the Generals and even the SCOTUS members should be decried.

Where we have parted company is over the words used by those whose anger overwhelmed them as they viciously attacked our president. And the words, ideas and actions viciously attacking fellow DUers.

Some of us stood ground and fought against those vicious attacks and in so doing received even more vitriol. Soon, we had an escalation of anger which really, you must admit, was crazy and non-conducive to any of our causes.

There are sound political reasons to have Warren be there, as well as some generals and SCOTUS members. As a plus of having Warren be there, it has allowed his can of worms to be opened. All of us are far more educated and informed about him, and about the cause due to the great attention because of the anger against Warren. We all share that anger.

But the anger stops at Warren. It does not carry over to Obama for some of us. We recognize that Obama has certain political reasons for not throwing Warren, some Generals, and some of the SCOTUS members out of there.

There is much to be thankful for. And work yet to be done. It does no good to let anger divide us like it has, for we need all we can get working together to bring more progress.

[Bluebear]

7. >There are sound political reasons to have Warren be there< No, THAT is where we part company.

Adieu.

[BeFree]

9. ...

So we disagree... It happens in politics. It happens in life.

I wonder if we could agree that some SCOTUS members and some Generals should also, due to their words, ideas and actions, also be uninvited?

[No Elephants]

24. Warren's being there is very different from the POTUS inviting Warren to

give the invocation, though. If there is anger at the invitation, Obama is exactly the appropriate object. I am angry at Warren for Warren's bigoted sermons, bigoted church policies, etc. However, I'd be an unfair fool to be angry at Warren because Obama invited Warren. That's solely on Obama.

[BeFree]

25. That's where we disagree

I'm not mad/angry at Obama for his political decision. He has his reasons.

Now, being mad at bush? Hell yeah.

[polichick]

6. I agree 100% - Obama created this mess, and it's his to fix...

He can turn this into another illuminating moment like he did with his "race relations" speech ~ though it will be harder on his ego, since it was his own doing.

Still, I'm keeping my fingers crossed and my heart hopeful.

[BeFree]

8. Yes he could

And he should, imo.
Great idea this 'turn this into another illuminating moment'.

That's probably what it will take to get over the hump: another Obama moment.

[polichick]

10. I think it would be pretty easy too - just a well written statement...

...that could be presented in a short press conference from Hawaii.

[BeFree]

11. Mebbe

But I think the moment has to be very well versed.

There is so much anger in the air and other pressing matters... I'm not looking for the moment for a few months at least.

[Horselover Fat]

12. and if Obama doesn't, then his Administration must be doomed, correct?

Ultimatums don't usually have the intended effect.

[Bluebear]

13. Yeah welcome to DU, "horselover fat" - yes, it's doomed!!!!1

That's exactly what the op-ed said!!11 Exactly!!!1

[BeFree]

16. Well

Not doomed, but rather, educated somewhat.

[jenmito]

14. Re: this paragraph:

"President-elect Obama, you need to fix this. Before more violence occurs against gays, you must publicly disavow Warren's comments and tell Americans that gays are full human beings deserving of full human rights. And if you support us, end "don't ask, don't tell," fight for adoption and marriage rights nationwide, outlaw discrimination and treat gays like the full humans they are, instead of second-class citizens." This is from Obama's change.gov website and addresses those points, although some not sufficiently since it doesn't allow for MARRIAGE:


The Obama-Biden Plan

* Expand Hate Crimes Statutes: In 2004, crimes against LGBT Americans constituted the third-highest category of hate crime reported and made up more than 15 percent of such crimes. Barack Obama cosponsored legislation that would expand federal jurisdiction to include violent hate crimes perpetrated because of race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, or physical disability. As a state senator, Obama passed tough legislation that made hate crimes and conspiracy to commit them against the law.
* Fight Workplace Discrimination: Barack Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and believes that our anti-discrimination employment laws should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity. While an increasing number of employers have extended benefits to their employees' domestic partners, discrimination based on sexual orientation in the workplace occurs with no federal legal remedy. Obama also sponsored legislation in the Illinois State Senate that would ban employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
* Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples: Barack Obama supports full civil unions that give same-sex couples legal rights and privileges equal to those of married couples. Obama also believes we need to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and enact legislation that would ensure that the 1,100+ federal legal rights and benefits currently provided on the basis of marital status are extended to same-sex couples in civil unions and other legally-recognized unions. These rights and benefits include the right to assist a loved one in times of emergency, the right to equal health insurance and other employment benefits, and property rights.
* Oppose a Constitutional Ban on Same-Sex Marriage: Barack Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006 which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples.
* Repeal Don't Ask-Don't Tell: Barack Obama agrees with former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili and other military experts that we need to repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve. Discrimination should be prohibited. The U.S. government has spent millions of dollars replacing troops kicked out of the military because of their sexual orientation. Additionally, more than 300 language experts have been fired under this policy, including more than 50 who are fluent in Arabic. Obama will work with military leaders to repeal the current policy and ensure it helps accomplish our national defense goals.
* Expand Adoption Rights: Barack Obama believes that we must ensure adoption rights for all couples and individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation. He thinks that a child will benefit from a healthy and loving home, whether the parents are gay or not.

http://change.gov/agenda/civil_rights_agenda/

PLEASE don't take this as ME accepting his view that "full civil unions" is equal to marriage. I don't. I'm just posting what's on his website, some things which address the paragraph I quoted.

[BeFree]

15. Wow

That's some plan. GOBAMA!

[Balderdash]

17. So far Jenmito, those are words that are belied by actions.

We'll see what the future holds.

[jenmito]

20. How? Has he said or done anything differently now than before he won the election?

He spoke at Warren's church and was involved in at least one forum run by him.

[totodeinhere]

18. Obama has already "publicly disavowed Warren's comments."

But of course that isn't good enough for some people. I think that most of us here support gay marriage. The disagreement lies on how best to get there. On that point, reasonable people can disagree. Some people believe that inviting Warren will allow Obama to have some political cover when he move aggressively for gay rights once he takes office. I don't know if that strategy is the right one or not, but at the very least we should accept that there might be more than one way to get to full gay rights. I for one am willing to give Obama a chance and wait and see what the state of gay rights looks like after Obama has been in office for a while.

[BeFree]

19. Indeed

In politics decisions are made to influence people and things. Almost always there are consequences that are unintended and unexpected. The consequence of the Warren pick is no different.

In this case, the consequence has been that many people have become motivated to take notice of similar decisions and motivated to do something about the whole durn mess.

There are not many left here who will just let it slide any longer.
Human rights must not be denied to any American citizen.
America now, the rest of the world tomorrow!

[sniffa]

23. "Why there will continue to be more Warren threads

and why there should be more."

[Bluebear]

26. Curious, since you are "willing to wait", are you gay?