The Illinois Sec. of State doesn't have veto power people.

[Blarch]

Never did, never will. He has to sign. The Sec of State DOES NOT HAVE VETO POWER.

Jesse White has to sign the certificate, period. He is not end all on the issue, but he does have to sign the certificate.

It's the law, period. We can't hold an opinion on if the Sec of State has veto power.

What we are dealing with here, is a complete disrespect for the law.

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. I am missing the context n/t

[Blarch]

3. Jesse White HAS to sign the certificate.

He doesn't have the power to NOT sign it. If he did it would be a veto power on anybody needing a sig.

[yourguide]

22. Actually Illinois state law does not require a signature.

So he is within the law not signing it. However the senate DOES require a signature.

So it's sort of an interesting legal limbo here.

He does have the power NOT to sign it. He is not required by law to sign it in Illinois. Dont you remember? Early on in this saga, after the appointment was made even Blago himself said White doesnt have to sign it assuming because that was the law in his state it would hold true for the appointment. Well, the senate has a different set of rules.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

2. Exactly...

What the Senate Dems are doing to Burris is wrong and potentially unconstitutional! Does the Secretary of State overrule the governor? The SoS is part of the Executive Branch, and therefore, subjected to it. Where does the buck stop? With the governor? Or with the SoS? Sounds to me like this goes to the courts on constitutional grounds.

[WeDidIt]

4. That's not for you to decide

That's up to the IL Supreme Court to decide.

White will argue that the requirement that the SOS certify an appointment is a check on the appointment power of the governor.

[Blarch]

5. WTF ?

It's not up to the ILSC to decide if White has a veto power, HE DOESN'T ...PERIOD.

Whites signiture is to validate that Burris is the Gov's pick ...thats it. It doesn't....and never will pass judgement.

And ...Your post implies that the SOS has veto power OVER the Gov. ...Do you think the SOS has more power than Gov ?

Jeeesh, our party is doomed.

[WeDidIt]

6. Now you're ignoring the rule of law.

You don't have the power to interpret Illinois statutes.

That power resides solely with the IL Supreme Court.

And that is where it will be decided.

[Blarch]

8. The court might decide that...

the SOS has power over the Gov ?

LOL ...Are you pulling my leg ? ...the SOS can reject the Gov's appointments ? ...nope, not never.

[WeDidIt]

9. We'll just have to wait and see

Court cases come down to whichever side makes the most compelling argument.

[Blarch]

11. Trust me.

The courts will NOT give the SOS more power than the Gov.

To even entertain the idea is absurd.

[redstate_democrat]

15. If you read the IL Constitution, it's clear what the Sec of State's role is.

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.

When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of each State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

This amendment shall not be so construed as to affect the election or term of any Senator chosen before it becomes valid as part of the Constitution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution">17th Amendment U.S. Constitution

The 17th Amendment clearly states that the "executive authority" shall issue writs of election to fill the vacancy. As demonstrated in the next quote, Blagabitch is the "supreme executive authority" in Illinois.

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/lrb/con5.htm ">ILLINOIS CONSTITUTION

SECTION 8. GOVERNOR - SUPREME EXECUTIVE POWER
The Governor shall have the supreme executive power, and
shall be responsible for the faithful execution of the laws.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

SECTION 16. SECRETARY OF STATE - DUTIES
The Secretary of State shall maintain the official
records of the acts of the General Assembly and such official
records of the Executive Branch as provided by law. Such
official records shall be available for inspection by the
public. He shall keep the Great Seal of the State of Illinois
and perform other duties that may be prescribed by law.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

Under Illinois Constitution, the governor has supreme executive power. The duties set out for the Secretary of State do not trump the SUPREME executive power of the governor.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=001000050HArt.+25&ActID=170&ChapAct=10%26nbsp%3BILCS%26nbsp%3B5%2F&ChapterID=3&ChapterName=ELECTIONS&SectionID=36731&SeqStart=86900000&SeqEnd=88100000&ActName=Election+Code.">Illinois Election Code/Statute

(10 ILCS 5/25‑8) (from Ch. 46, par. 25‑8)
Sec. 25‑8. When a vacancy shall occur in the office of United States Senator from this state, the Governor shall make temporary appointment to fill such vacancy until the next election of representatives in Congress, at which time such vacancy shall be filled by election, and the senator so elected shall take office as soon thereafter as he shall receive his certificate of election.
(Source: Laws 1943, vol. 2, p. 1.)

Illinois law clearly lays out the process in which the governor fills a vacant Senate seat. It says SHALL make temporary appointments. This language, "shall", is mandatory language. Also, it says that the appointee "shall" receive his certificate of election upon the governor making the appointment. The Sec. of State for Illinois clearly has no discretionary role in the appointment of a senator.

[WeDidIt]

18. Tell me, who interprets the IL Constitution?

Oh yeah, that's right. The Illinois Supreme Court.

It's up to them to determine what it means, not you.

[Blarch]

19. They will not....

give the SOS power over the Gov. ...the constitution is clear. Just stay the fuck out of my state...OK ?

Get it yet ? ...the SOS does NOT have more power than the Gov. ...the courts WILL NOT overturn the State Constitution and give the SOS this power.

Only a fool would hold this view.

[ieoeja]

33. Has he said the Court will overrule that power?

No! IWantAnyDem says it is up to the Court to decide, not DU, which is 100% accurate. He has made no prediction on what the court will decide.

At the very least this buys the state legislature time.

[redstate_democrat]

20. You're right, but to me it seems pretty straight forward...

In more than one provision of the law.

If there was supposed to be some sort of "check" on the Governor's power to appoint a senator, the statute sure doesn't spell it out. And furthermore, this is a statute. The legislature could have repealed it and vested within themselves the power to appoint or to appoint via a special election. The statute doesn't even say the governor has to get the advise and consent of the state legislature. If he doesn't have to do that, it seems unlikely the Sec. of State has any say whatsoever as to who the governor appoints. White has to basically rubber stamp the document, verifying that the governor's signature is legit and that the governor actually made the appointment.

[WeDidIt]

26. Lots of things may seem straight forward until courts get ahold of them. n/t

[Renew Deal]

31. I disagree about the supreme court part of your statement.

It's up to them to deal with this dispute if/when it comes to the court.

[nevergiveup]

7. Why does he have to sign the certificate?

Is it stated in law that he has to sign it? Will Jessie White be arrested if he refuses? Jessie White is just trying to protect the people of Illinois from a tainted senatorial appointment. Blago is a scumbag who was trying to sell this very senate seat. Burris called for Blago's resignation and then a few days later accepted this appointment knowing damn well it was tainted and would throw the entire state of Illinois up for grabs. I admire Jessie White for his stance on this.

[Blarch]

10. Yes.

It says he SHALL sign it.

[w4rma]

13. But what is the rest of the context? (nt)

[musicblind]

27. No it does not say he "shall" sign it. That is a lie.

The above poster lied to you. Go about halfway up in this thread and read the state's constitution for yourself and you'll see. Someone else actually copied and pasted the direct information.

[Blarch]

28. Excuse me ? ...

(15 ILCS 305/5) (from Ch. 124, par. 5)
Sec. 5. It shall be the duty of the Secretary of State:
1. To countersign and affix the seal of state to all commissions required by law to be issued by the Governor.

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=19...

Thanks for playing ...and for lying. Jeeesh, the ignorance.

[yourguide]

29. The SOSs office has studied the illinois constitution

and states there is nothing that requires him to sign an appointment. Blago himself said he doesnt need Whites signature.

[MadBadger]

12. What has Blago been convicted of?

He has the right to appoint a senator. He did. It sucks, but I really dont see what leg the SOS is standing on.

[terisan]

16. I think because it is his job to certify that this is the governor's pick-not to let

his personal or political view of the governor keep him from doing his job. Similar to what the situation would be if an official in Minnesota with an identical responsibility refused to certify Al Franken because he though he was a jerk.

[redstate_democrat]

17. Jessie White is currying favor with the Democratic Party Establishment in D.C.

and trying, as well, to politically cover his own tail, in total disregard of his Constitutional duties. This is just as self-serving as anything Burris is accused of doing.

[nevergiveup]

21. Jessie White is an extremely popular

Sec. of State who is one of the largest vote getters on a state level in Illinois history. He is also an old man with doubtful political ambitions. I am sure he knows his legal position on this will not stand but he took a position based on moral grounds and I applaud him for this.

[redstate_democrat]

23. I agree that he took this stand on grounds other than legal ones.

[olkaz]

24. Same here.

He's a man of principle and I trust him (and I live in Illinois). If he feels strongly enough about this appointment to actually extend himself like this, he must have a damned good reason.

[Blarch]

32. WTF ?

You admit he is ignoring the State Constitution ...then you 'applaud him for it' ?

Thats not my party buddy, thats the view of a republican. That is some sick shit.

Did you ever applaud Bush when he ignored the Constitution ? ...The hypocrisy is getting pretty deep around here.

[nevergiveup]

38. Sorry, but I don't want to be your buddy

If you love Blago and his friend Burris, that is cool with me, but don't hide it in all this constitutional/legal crap.....just say it. This isn't about the Illinois constitution. Blago is totally corrupt and you and everyone else knows it and he will likely also legally end up in jail. Of course, Jessie White will end up signing whatever he has to sign but he is taking a principled stand and sending a message because Burris was appointed by a snake and I admire his stance just as I admire those who stand up against the war criminals Bush and Cheney, also corrupt individuals who have not been convicted in court of anything.....it gets a little confusing doesn't it.

[PurityOfEssence]

40. You are absolutely in the moral and legal right here; both spirit and letter of the law support you

This is high-handed imperious bullshit, and those who cheer such bullying are putting themselves above others with some claim of moral aristocracy. This is precisely the kind of crapping on the law that's been practiced by the only somewhat broken run of conservative control of this country for the last 28 years. I'm sick of this; rules are to be obeyed, or else we're nothing but a bunch of scheming narcissists.

It's the same thing with the Florida and Michigan primaries. If people don't like the law, they should work to change it, but until then, we're bound to it by the decency of our character. THAT is what's lacking here: a belief that people can pick and choose because somehow they're "better".

Not only are you correct, you are commendably correct.

Of all the cockamamie bullshit stupid petty little battles for Obama and his people to finally break with their traditional waffling to make a stand on, this one takes the prize.

Respect the law. Seat him. Get over yourselves and learn when and when not to fight.

You are not alone here; many are disgusted with this display of high-handed legal disdain.

[AngryAmish]

36. As it ends up, he will be arrested if he refuses to sign

Burris and Blago files writ of mandamus - saying the J. White is not doing his job as he is compelled to do under the law.

He goes to court and the court (under the equitable powers granted under the Il. Constitution) says, Mr. White, sign this paper.

If Mr. White then refuses, he will be found in direct contempt at that point. It is within the power of the court to jail him until he complies.

[redstate_democrat]

14. It clearly is.

And the Illinois Supreme Court will rule that way as well.

The Sec. of State has no discretionary power with regard to the appointment of a senator. The statute doesn't say anything at all about the Sec of State approving of a senate appointee. The IL Constitution doesn't make mention of any discretionary power that the Sec of State has. It list his duties as ministerial. This dude listened to Harry Reid and broke the oath of his own friggin office.

[nevergiveup]

25. Do you know for a fact

that Jessie White even had a conversation with Harry Reid? The guy is as independent as hell. Where did you get all of your knowledge of Illinois politics?

[ieoeja]

34. An awful lot of out-of-state DUers seem to think IL DUers *want* this appointment to go through.

Aside from Blarch in this thread, I don't think I have seen a single other DUer from IL speak in favor of this appointment. You would think the non-Illini would get the hint.

[Renew Deal]

30. I agree that the SoS has to sign, but I still don't think Burris should be seated.

And that's up to the senate.

[Blarch]

35. On what grounds can they stop him ?

[Renew Deal]

37. Any grounds they want

From what I've read. They get to decide who's a member.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

39. That's not germain to the subject!

The god damned Germans got nothing to do with it!!!