Why Dean should have gotten an appointment.

[cali]

Not because he was owed it, but because he's too smart and capable to shove out the door. Dean is a valuable guy with a terrific track record. He's proven that he can run a large organziation well, that he's innovative as hell and a team player.

It's a waste of a valuable resource at a time when the gov't desperately needs people with the skills, track record and integrity that Dean possesses.

And yeah, at the very least, he shouldn't have been treated ungraciously.

[DrDan]

1. he was treated appropriately

[cali]

2. You detest Dean

and everyone here knows that any despicable thing, no matter how personal and how low, would thrill your little soul.

[DrDan]

10. thrills me? no - that is not true.

But I do not care for Dean - that is true.

I am glad he has moved on - that is far from your claim.

And judging from how it has apparently happened, I am not alone.

[wndycty]

3. Tell me which appointment and why he would have distinct advantage over whomever. . .

. . .Obama chose.

I do believe Dean is qualified, but there are a ton of qualified folks who might be better matched.

[cali]

6. HHS. He would have been terrific and certainly better in most ways

than Daschle. He has far more experience than Daschle in the field of Healthcare. He's actually successfully run large organizations. Daschle does have better connections in Congress, but I think Dean could have done fine in that dept too.

[wndycty]

12. Something to consider. . .one could argue that to pass his health care plan Obama. . .

. . .needs someone who could get things done on the Hill. Does Dean have the contacts and the experience to get legislation passed?

[democrattotheend]

14. I think that's why he wasn't offered HHS

Which makes sense to me. I wish he'd been offered surgeon general but he may not have wanted that.

[wndycty]

18. Actually Surgeon General would have been a HUGE insult to Dean politically. . .

. . .as I have said its a couple of pay grades below Cabinet level. That is one that if it were offered to him he would have been wise to turn down.

An experienced politician would not want Surgeon General.

[Fleshdancer]

19. His record as Governor and as head of the DNC tells me he can get things done

You make a very valid point and the ability to get things done and having the ability to get legislation passed should be questioned for all appointments. It just drives me a little nuts that Democrats are still questioning Dean's ability to do this after he has proven himself time and time again throughout his entire political career.

[wndycty]

21. You do realize that Capitol Hill is full of REPUBLICANS who can't stand Dean. . .

. . .I really like Dean but Obama's Cabinet choices, especially for a position like HHS which will have lots of pending legislation, need to have relationships on both sides of the aisle. I don't see Dean having the ability to work with the Republicans on the Hill. That says a lot more about the GOP and their petty behavior than it does about Dean.

[Fleshdancer]

25. Capitol Hill is full of Democrats too

I get what you're saying, I'm just frustrated. Not choosing Dean because he pissed off the GOP would be punishing him for successfully doing his job as Chairman of the DNC.

[wndycty]

26. Get beyond Dean, its about getting HEALTH CARE passed. . .

. . .Obama could have stood on principle and selected Dean and lost on health care, or he could be pragmatic and make a strategic decision and win on health care.

[Fleshdancer]

27. I'm not convinced Daschle can pull it off

The Daschle I remember caved on just about everything. Healthcare is a big deal and I want to see something that doesn't just benefit insurance companies pushed through. I just don't see it happening with Daschle. I hope to be proven very wrong on this though.

[ieoeja]

28. Capitol Hill is also full of Democrats who *hate* Dean.

That is the problem. The equation for healthcare reform is:

Without Dean - 59 Senate Democrats in favor - 41 Republicans opposed
With Dean - 44 Senate Democrats in favor - 41 Republicans + 15 Democrats = 56 opposed

Okay, I just made up the number 15. But we do know that a substantial number see Dean as public enemy #1.

[Fleshdancer]

32. Who are these Democrats that hate him enough to not pass healthcare reform?

Many of the Democrats on Capitol Hill had to work with the Bush administration for the past 8 years. I have a hard time believing they would suddenly oppose legislation over Howard Dean of all people.

The Democrats who are new to Capitol Hill are probably pretty damn happy with Dean.

[ieoeja]

33. A substantial number of Democrats have attacked Dean since day 1.

Blue Dogs and the DLC opposed Dean heavily during his election to be Chair of the DNC in 2005. And in the ensuing years, they never stopped. These Democrats sided with the Republicans every time they attacked Dean.

In addition to those on the Hill, you had Carville and Begala on TV attacking Dean at every opportunity. In the midst of the 2006 election, they attacked Dean.

When Democrats re-took the house, they gave the credit to Rahm Emanuel and called for Dean's ouster citing the loss of certain GOP incumbents the DLC targeted as vulnerable, but who retained their seats. In reality, had we taken 100% of those seats, the GOP would have still retained the House if not for all the other seats Dean targeted which the DLC thought were unwinnable! But to this day you see Rahm Emanuel cited as the author of the campaign that retook the House.

The entire Michigan/Florida fiasco was engineered by this same coalition of Democrats. You have two popular theories why:

1. they wanted to ensure a Hillary (president of the DLC) victory, and/or
2. they wanted to pick a fight with Dean.

Regardless of why, this ended up being the single biggest threat to a Democratic victory this year. Does one need any more proof that they would rather see a Republican victory than a victory by non-DLC Democrats?

Poster w***w*** will be along shortly to dispute this. He must have some search engine that seeks out any attacks on the DLC which is why I avoided mentioning them by name the first time. But since you asked me to identify them....

[BuelahWitch]

36. Nancy Pelosi for one

Back when he was running for President she was one of several Democrats who signed a letter that basically called him antisemitic because he supposedly made some disparaging remark against Israel.
Personally I'd take 1 Howard Dean over 100 Nancy Pelosis, but unfortunately it's Pelosi who has the power, not my former candidate of choice. :cry:

[PassingFair]

45. As I recall, his "disparaging remark" against Israel was....

That he would take an "even-handed" stance in diplomacy.

:eyes:

Yep, that's real hate speech.

:sarcasm:

[Fleshdancer]

47. I had no idea

Would she sabatoge a healthcare deal because of it though? That seems a bit extreme, doesn't it? :(

[samsingh]

30. do you think that Dascle is at all effective?

[SaveOurDemocracy]

40. "...someone who could get things done on the Hill." ?

I've always thought of Tom Daschle as a likable and decent man (as far as politicians go) ... but never considered him a very effective leader. I'm left feeling less than confident that he will take the, very necessary, hard line with HMO's and big Pharma. I'd be soooooooo much more confident with Howard Dean across the table from those who will, most definitely, be working overtime to to impede anything even close to equitable, accessible medical care that will serve ALL the citizens.

[Autumn]

4. Cali I feel bad that

Dean didn't get an appointment, but it is a new party and he is the old face of it. Things change.Time for him to move on.

[PVnRT]

5. How is he an "old face"?

Starting from the day he was appointed chair, he has been the new face of the party, transforming it from a swing-state-focused organization to a 50-state-focused organization. Nothing about him is "old face." If anything, Obama seems to be reinforcing the "old face" of the party with his many Clinton-era appointees.

[Autumn]

13. Sorry but PE Obama is the new

Head of the party. He can put whatever face he wants on it. And that happens to be Kaine.

[PVnRT]

15. lol wut?

[Autumn]

22. Well I read it on

DU, it has to be true. lol wut? Brilliant. Kudos to you.

[PVnRT]

29. Just responding with nonsense to nonsense

Your basic argument is that a guy who has reorganized the party apparatus over the past four years, after running an outsider campaign in the 2004 primary, is somehow an "old face" of the party, something which you cannot seem to come up with a good argument in support of.

So, again, lol wut?

[Autumn]

31. Got it commando

Who's in charge now? Not the "guy who has reorganized the party apparatus". And did it very well I might add. Edited to add Give you a hint , his name starts with K.

[nomaco-10]

7. You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding....

New party? Have you paid attention to the admin picks so far? Looks like the clinton era in full redux. I expect to see james carvelle and paul begala to be appointed to something any day now.

New party? Not hardly.

[cali]

8. yeah, because the admin is just loaded with new faces.

um, no it's not.

[Autumn]

16. I'm sorry Cali

I don't like it any better than you do. Howard Dean gave me hope when it seemed there was no hope.As for new faces in our Government you will never get past recycling the same old faces. Cause they are our fucking masters.

[bigwillq]

9. There are many "old faces"

already selected by Obama. Fail.

[polichick]

35. Your avatar is a very old face in politics (not age) and she got a spot.

[Autumn]

41. My avatar is for a kind,gracious woman who

did something special for someone I love very much. If nobody likes it I really don't give a flying fuck. She might be old but I like it because I'm old, a lot older but I can respect that, you get to the point where small kindness are important, And You are right she has a spot, a real soft spot in her heart. You people can attack me on my avatar but you aren't reading my words, I respect and admire Howard Dean and I thought that was what this OP was about. And my avatar, they can take it from my cold tomb stoned profile.

[polichick]

44. I was responding to your suggestion that the new admin. calls for new faces...

...when Hillary, a very old POLITICAL face (not in age, as I already said) is part of the administration. There was no attack.

[Autumn]

46. Not so much from you

but others. I am disappointed that PE Obama would replace Dean with a man like Kaine, But I will live with it. I very happily pulled that lever for him and he is my President, but if I don't like what he does I will say so. And you know, there really are no new faces in politics,unless we want Obama to wait about four or eight years. Peace

[Thrill]

11. How do you know he wanted one? Everyone is outraged BUT Dean

[Ganja Ninja]

17. Surgeon General was the job he should have got. n/t

[Autumn]

20. I agree with you

totally. But it's not our choice.

[nomaco-10]

23. Surgeon General? Maybe Obama could make him...

head of food and beverages and he could serve coffee to the press corp before press conferences.

What an insult to one of the most brilliant minds to come down the democratic pike in decades. Howard Dean should have had an important and prominent position in this admin. The snub has been blatant and deliberate and a real disappointment to many of us.

[Autumn]

24. So is it better to not use him

when we fucking desperately need someone like him? I don't think Howard Dean cares about the position, I think he cares about the service. Maybe I'm wrong.

[mzmolly]

34. Absolutely.

I'm sad that he's not in the new administration. Part of me wonders if he didn't want to work for Emmanuel and can't say for obvious reasons?

[K Gardner]

37. How many Dean threads are you going to post?

[fadedrose]

43. Not nearly enough to suit me.... nt

[JVS]

38. But that wouldn't be part of the Team of Shifty Bastiges You Expect to Betray You™ plan!

[mmonk]

39. I agree. I think he is a great strategist. It's not that he feels he is owed

anything and he isn't the complaining type nor is he a power seeker, but I think he is owed a modicum of respect. He has done a lot for us.

[fadedrose]

42. Plus, he's honest, courageous, perceptive, a trailblazer, and he's so loved...nt