I Wish I Could Think Up Some Reason To Be Upset With Obama So I Didn't Feel So Out Of Place Here

[JimGinPA]

But nothing he's done since the election has really bothered me all that much. I haven't felt obliged to defend any of his decisions for the most part, or to argue with those who have voiced their objections over practically everything he's done to this point. I respect the fact that some people have had legitimate concerns or have issues that they feel strongly enough about that they feel the need to speak out. I also realize that there are some here who have always looked for reasons to complain about Obama and were going to find fault with everything he does, regardless. Some of posters doing a lot of "questioning" I recognize as early Obama "doubters", but many are also new to me. I suppose some will feel it necessary now to accuse me of being one of those who thinks he walks on water, but that's not the case. Those who know me won't doubt my not being shy about speaking up when I disagree with something.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Don't let the doubters and naysayers get you down...

You know what you think of Obama, and why.

Stick to your guns!

There's more of us out here who agree with you than you might expect... :hug:

[Cha]

57. I was letting

it get me down but I rallied! :hi:

[Top Cat]

69. I agree..... I still thnk Obama is the best for the country

No one is changing my mine on that....

[Top Cat]

71. I agree..... I still thnk Obama is the best for the country

No one is changing my mine on that....

[Clio the Leo]

2. In theory, he could have taken the White House by force...

.... if he really wanted to.

Who'd stop him?

I guess that's one thing we can be mad about.

I can just see Sasha chasing Barney out the back door.

[Jennicut]

3. I am mad at Barack for seemingly being in better shape then me at 47

and I am 33. So not fair. He pissed me off. Plus, he eats Spam. But seriously, he is doing fine for me so far. I like that he seems willing to listen to different ideas, that he explicitly says things like "I am against torture", that he has held more press conferences as prez-elect then Shrub did in 8 years as president. I may not like one or two posts but the buck stops with him. Bush was led around by the nose by everyone, Obama seems to be his own man who can ask opinions but remain responsible as top dog.

[Deja Q]

5. Well said.

And, fun tangent time, I'm 36 and working on getting my health back together.

[Jennicut]

7. I have type 2 diabetes so yeah, my health could be better too

Is kind of frustrating to get it at 29 and be seemingly healthy and with a normal BMI but sometimes there is no explanation for it. So I get to take insulin shots for the rest of my life. My doctors still don't know why I got it other then having two pregnancies back to back. Obama, though, he can eat anything and not gain weightt, like on the campaign trail. How dare he!

[DevonRex]

34. I know exactly how you feel. I have a primary immune deficiency

that showed up when I was 29. Until then I had been healthy and athletic. By the time I was 40 I had to take a medical retirement from ATF because I was constantly sick. Because of that I gained weight. Now it's a constant struggle.

How DARE Obama eat ice cream and french fries in front of me. And PIE. Grrr.

[Jennicut]

48. I know! Its so unfair. I am glad he is so healthy though as he is our president to be

Presidents need to be healthy. He just needs to quit smoking now.

[DevonRex]

50. Me too. :) nt

[Name removed]

49. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jackpan1260]

4. There are MANY people here that could help you find a reason!

Just ask!

[tabatha]

6. You could always be upset with him because he has not upset you.

[Bolo Boffin]

8. I'm glad you feel that way.

You have a right to feel that way since that's the way you feel.

I have a right to feel upset with Obama over the things that I am upset over. I still know he will be a better President for my issues than McCain ever would have been. My being upset doesn't change that at all.

[AtomicKitten]

9. My excitement outweighs my nervousness.

All I can think of is finally after eight long-ass years, a new day begins.

I am mocked for being hopeful, but it's all good.

[Zomby Woof]

10. I have one reason I am upset

He won't let me dance with Michelle at the Inaugural Ball. x(

[pipi_k]

43. Pssst....give me twenty bucks

and I'll get him outside to have a cigarette.


That should be good for a couple of quick dances.

[Chulanowa]

11. I'm pissed that he has a cooler name than me

I mean where does he get off, huh?

[firedupdem]

12. kick! n/t

[kid a]

13. i have avoiding DU until late late night, staying positive, excited, fired up, and ready to go

=)

[scardycat]

14. I'm with you.....

nothing Obama has done has upset me at all. He is trying his hardest and give him a chance!! sheesh. I try to find positive threads or wacky threads about right wingers to read. The other dribble is just that to me.

[whirlygigspin]

15. Lead, follow or get out of the way

Unfortunately, I think you are confused.

I haven't seen many people upset at Obama, just the policy decisions.
Take it personally if you wish, but that completely misses the point.
I'm sure George W Bush is a very nice man as well, but policy matters more than personality to many of us.

When people get upset here, it's generally because some sort of progress is being blocked.
The pressure that creates should not be confused with opposition. If WE CEED or concede, we end up moving further to the right. THAT is the problem. This country does not need more movement to the right but a greater shift back to the left. (if not, all the bail out plans will be more of the same Darwinian trickle down 'give it to the corporations' nonsense of the last 30 years.

I know centrist like to dismiss the left as loony, but that is a critical mistake. Every 'moaning complainer' is actually a reflection of some sort of social or economic problem that needs redress.

And that is not including the 50% of Americans who have completely given up on the political system while being disenfranchised, jailed or marginalized.

[Shiver]

21. What's taken personally, I think

Is not necessarily seeing people being upset with policy decisions, but with the insults lobbed at those who disagree with those who are upset. Believe it or not, but calling people "Obamabots", "Obama apologists" and "worshippers" is not intended as a term of endearment. It's insulting, insinuating that those who disagree with you are following the man blindly, or have no will of their own or no ability to think for themselves.

As many people have said, this is a discussion board, but how can you discuss something if you insult the people who offer a counter-opinion? By all means, if you are upset with the policies, BE UPSET with the policies. But don't insult people for holding differing opinions on the matter - and that goes for people who insult those who are upset as well; this is, as many have said, a discussion board. In my experience, not much discussion occurs when everyone is insulting everyone else.

[dmallind]

24. The confusion goes both ways

The ones who defend Obama and his decisions are not kool-aid drinking worshippers who can see no wrong. (ironically, I was roundly condemned prior to the election for being too cool on Obama, for having exactly the same opinions that I have now which are deemed to be blindly obeisant to him).

The problem with the complainers is not for the most part that they are complaining. I can't think off hand of a complaint on DU I've seen that didn't have some merit if you looked at it from the point of view of the political position of the complainer (in other words I understand why ardent far-leftists might dislike the idea of Vilsack or Clinton even though I have no problem).

The problem with all this hand wringing is the absurdist extreme levels to which every such complaint is instantly raised by a spiral of me-too-you-are-not-outraged-enough zealots. Nothing has ever simply been a less than ideal choice on DU by the time the thread is closed or forgotten. No cabinet pick has ever been allowed to stay at "well I have some issues with X and would have preferred Y - I think Obama made a mistake here". No policy statement has ever been decided by the collective outrage merchants to simply be tilted further than they would like in one direction, or to have excluded something they would have wanted. NO! EVERY complaint gets raised by successive posters until the only possible viewpoint not drowned out in a sea of accusations of freeperhood is that Obama has completely and utterly betrayed huge swathes of the population and has proven himself a corporatist Clintonista DLC shill DINO who spits in the faces of every right thinking progressive with his complete disregard for these people or that people and thrown them under the bus even though THEY got him elected (the number of groups who apparently were directly responsible for getting Obama elected is an interesting corollary of this phenomenon).

The guy ain't perfect and he is no exception the rule that you can't please everyone all of the time. Nobody claims he is. But neither is he - before being in office at that - the silly caricaturish demon of anti-progressive ideals he is made out to be by the shrill bleatings of the DU fringe.

[MoJoWorkin]

16. Thank you JimGinPA! I am with you.

I feel like DU has been taken over by negative nay bobs----most of whom I do not recognize as having posted much(if at all) during the primaries or general. Or if they did, it was always against Obama from the beginning. They seem to have come out of the woodwork.I don't feel as much a part of DU now, as there are too many posters that ONLY want to bash our new President to be, when he hasn't even had a chance to govern.

Seems like we all should take a deep breath and savor the real change we are about to discover---and YES, it WILL BE REAL CHANGE from the nightmare of Bush. I guess some just want a perfect world. I got news for them, there isn't any such thing.

Overall, I have been happy with Obama's picks. Would I have liked someone else for some of the Cabinet posts? Sure. There were reasons that some people were not chosen for Cabinet positions that we will never know---I so wanted Richardson for State, for example, but look how that would have turned out.

My trust in Obama, from the beginning, has never been misplaced. He has shown time and time again, that he has sound judgment. He won, against incredible odds. I will give him the time he needs to get us to a better place---I know he will deliver! He has shown me he has the goods.

[lamp_shade]

17. My feelings exactly. k&r

[Onlooker]

18. Are you a Reagan Democrat?

I think most of the people upset with Obama are upset with his trickle down economic plan, his silence on Gaza, his treatment of Howard Dean, or his choice of anti-gay, anti-woman Rick Warren. If none of those things bother you, then perhaps you had different reasons than many of us for supporting Obama.

[JimGinPA]

26. No, Reagan Never Fooled Me - But I Was A Viet-Nam War Protester...

Both during the Johnson & Nixon years. Your "trickle down economic plan" buzz phrase speaks directly to the point I was attempting to make though. As in "a load of shit" thrown out to diminish someone you were against from the beginning. As is the made up Dean snub and the false argument about "his silence on Gaza". I don't give a fuck about who gives an invocation at Obama's inauguration, as I am neither religious, anti-gay nor anti-woman.

[janx]

28. HA!!

Well said! :rofl:

[progressoid]

37. You mean the trickle down buzz phrase started by a 24 year Seanate Veteran?

"There's only one thing we've got to do in this stimulus, and that's create jobs," Harkin told me. "I'm a little concerned by the way Mr. Summers and others are going on this ... it still looks a little more to me like trickle-down."

When I asked if he felt his concerns were heard during the meeting, he looked to the floor and slowly shook his head. It was almost forlorn.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/01/harkin_fears_trickle-down_stimulus.php


You mean that buzz phrase?

[Political Heretic]

92. Exactly.

[DevonRex]

38. Yeah, those buzz words are very telling. Yesterday it was Reaganesque.

Today it's trickle down.

Once again I have an ignore list because it's as bad or worse than the primaries here. I only ignore the buzz-word crowd and the ones who attack me personally. There are several posters that I really like who have real concerns and who have always been able to discuss them with civility.

[RollWithIt]

67. Well said.....

I am in the same boat as you. Though far younger. The "Trickle Down Economic Plan" thing is completely retarded. His plan doesn't call for that, it calls for trillions in investment, only a small percentage of that is for the dreaded "wealth class" that so many on our side have deemed as enemies. The truth is that sound economic policy does not include increasing taxes on people who just lost 30% to 50% of their net worth in the last year. The Dean snub was never a snub. If Dean really wanted a position he would have actively campaigned for it. He never did. And he has never expressed disappointment in not being picked for anything. The Surgeon General position is the most telling in my opinion. The people who push this meme clearly don't understand that Governor Dean would have never wanted this position. They also haven't read Daschle's book which clearly advocates expanded universal healthcare based on the financial realities we face.

I don't know how anyone can criticize Obama in good faith based on the Israeli-Gaza (Palestinian) conflict. Lets see what happens on January 21st.

Overall, we are faced with a Great Depression and people are bitching about nonsense. What matters to me is 2 years from now. Has the economy turned around in 2-3 years?

[Number23]

74. I wasn't going to rec this thread until I saw this post

Now I'm happy to... :)

[babylonsister]

29. You have your 'talking points' down pat. Good job. Why are

you here if you can't stand the guy? And your every post indicates that.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Political Heretic]

19. The first thing that has really gotten to me is the trickle-down economic proposal.

His rhetoric on what was needed in a plan for the economy was so good and correct in my view, and then the plan he unveiled was nothing close to it.

[mopinko]

59. that's a really funny thing to say, as i do not recall the plan being

unveiled. or did i miss something? the "trickle down" part is about 20% of the whole thing.

[Political Heretic]

73. Yeah, you did miss something

Apparently, you missed all of the press conferences and discussion this week which included numbers on the percentages of the estimated 700+ billion that would be spend on tax breaks to please Republicans in Congress verses what would be spend on direct relief vs. what would be spend on infastructure and what kinds of infastructure projects were being talked about.

The trickle down is not 20% - its 40%. And the remainder is divided between insignificant direct "relief" and modest infrastructure projects.

Don't act like there's nothing to discuss. Paul Krugman, for one, has very thoughtfully expressed his concerns about the timidity of what is being talked about so far, and Obama himself has not only announced the proposal, but he's already begun selling it.

So don't act like my being critical of what has been presented so far is grounded in nothing.

[FrenchieCat]

75. I think you are missing......

as his His rhetoric was exactly what he has proposed with his tax cuts.

And what you have presented is grounded in nothing.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4802192&mesg_id=4803487

[Political Heretic]

91. I am talking about tax breaks for business

for hiring people. That wasn't part of the campaign trail discussion.

Tax cuts for middle class families are fine and have nothing directly to do with economic stimulus. It's something that should have been done regardless of where the economy was - coupled with an appropriate and long overdue adjustment of taxation and the closing of tax loopholes at the top - which now apparently Obama is having second thoughts about actually doing.

The scale of infrastructure projects creating jobs is too small, a substantial portion of the proposal is set to go to business tax cuts that placate republicans and the rest is likely to get wasted on another round of small scale rebates that accomplish little to nothing.

Then you've got Obama saying "this is not some kind of public works program." Well, that's a real shame sir, because that's exactly what's needed.

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Of course straight conservative Democrats are happy

What is disturbing to me is the personality based reactions to criticisms of policy. I have basic and important disagreements with Obama. That will not change unless Obama evolves and I don't think he has that in him. Upset with him? Hardly. He's a politician, and he's doing politics. And so am I. I disagree with some of his dogmatic thinking, and the policies that come from that thinking. That does not mean I am 'upset with Obama'. I disagree with his policies, and think little of his faith based arguments against American families.
He thinks my family is not a real family, and the people he calls friends deliver vicious invective against us. It is my family. Think about that. What kind of a person stands with some political figure and does not defend his own family?

[xchrom]

22. i wish i thought people would understand that. but i don't. best to you. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Best to you too

Always asking people to put on the other's Crocs and walk a mile. It works in real life sometimes, not so much on the internets.

[bigwillq]

25. Great post, Bluenorthwest!

:thumbsup:

[ruggerson]

39. You won't hear much response to this

because there is no way anyone can defend it. Your words ring clearly and truthfully.

I do hope, however, that he can either evolve or be pushed to make the right decisions down the road.

[JimGinPA]

41. I Think You're Conflating Warren's Beliefs With Obama's...

I don't recall Obama ever saying anything to that effect. He has said that he will work with people like Warren where there is common ground but that he disagrees with him on many issues. Personally, I don't think Obama is the one who needs to "evolve".

[Dawgs]

46. "He thinks my family is not a real family"

When the fuck do he say that?

[treestar]

He does not

Go to change.gov and read his positions on the issues. It's really not fair to label him a far right homophobe just for picking Warren.

[Moonwalk]

72. Agreed. Of course, he's going to have to deliver on these promises...

From Change.gov:

"While we have come a long way since the Stonewall riots in 1969, we still have a lot of work to do. Too often, the issue of LGBT rights is exploited by those seeking to divide us. But at its core, this issue is about who we are as Americans. It's about whether this nation is going to live up to its founding promise of equality by treating all its citizens with dignity and respect."
-- Barack Obama, June 1, 2007

Fight Workplace Discrimination: Barack Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, and believes that our anti-discrimination employment laws should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

Support Full Civil Unions and Federal Rights for LGBT Couples: Barack Obama supports full civil unions that give same-sex couples legal rights and privileges equal to those of married couples. Obama also believes we need to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and enact legislation that would ensure that the 1,100+ federal legal rights and benefits currently provided on the basis of marital status are extended to same-sex couples in civil unions and other legally-recognized unions. Barack Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in 2006 which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and prevented judicial extension of marriage-like rights to same-sex or other unmarried couples.

Repeal Don't Ask-Don't Tell: Barack Obama agrees with former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff John Shalikashvili and other military experts that we need to repeal the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Expand Adoption Rights: Barack Obama believes that we must ensure adoption rights for all couples and individuals, regardless of their sexual orientation.

This is what he's saying he'll do, and some of what he's done and supported in the past. I'm in full agreement that Warren was a bad idea, but, I don't think Obama's mistake there makes him anti-GBLT. Granted, he has his own personal religious view, but a person of a religion where one is not allowed to drink alcohol doesn't have to say that drinking must, therefore, be against the law for everyone, or that those who drink are sinners. Proof of his beliefs on this score will be in the pudding--meaning whether he keeps or reneges on these promises.

[donco6]

53. True.

What's not to like from that quarter?

[EraOfResponsibility]

61. Sorry, but Obama's not going to get sidetracked by symbolism and culture wars

he's going to make changes for the LGBT community where it counts. If you can't see that, well I don't know what to tell you.

[LostinVA]

95. So, "culture wars" = civil rights --ohhoho

where have I heard THAT before?



There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America. It is a cultural war, as critical to the kind of nation we will one day be as was the Cold War itself... environmental extremists and radical feminism. The agenda Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton would impose on America — abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat — that's change, all right. But it is not the kind of change America wants. It is not the kind of change America needs. And it is not the kind of change we can tolerate in a nation that we still call God's country."

[sundog]

78. i like this post

[LostinVA]

94. :What kind of a person stands with some political figure and does not defend his own family?"

Perfect way to put it. So true.

[Zuiderelle]

97. Bravo! That's exactly how I feel.

Why do people think we should betray our own families to defend Obama? I refuse to do that.

[NoPasaran]

27. I hear he doesn't rinse out bottles before putting them in the recycling bin

If that's any help

[DCBob]

30. I am so completely absolutely relieved to have the GOP out of the WH.....

I cannot feel upset about anything Obama has done or said... yet.

[Paladin]

31. Excellent Point, JGP

I have yet to encounter a president whose policies and actions are 100% pleasing to me. I think that such an attitude is referred to as "Being A Grownup."

Those of you who find a new reason to trash Obama every day need to grow up, damned quickly, and give thanks for what's coming to pass, compared to the nightmare we've lived through for the last eight years. Either that, or take it over to FreiRepublik, where such whining is always in demand......

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

32. I'm with you, brother.

[NJmaverick]

33. A voice of reason in a sea of insanity

:thumbsup:

[K Gardner]

36. Ditto.

[Raschel]

35. I am very angry that he wasn't in the White House when my kids were small. Good going Barack.

[JimGinPA]

40. I Was Going To Let My Kids Stay Home & Watch The Inauguration But...

The day before is the King Holiday, so they threw in a "teacher's workshop" the next day so they are going to be off anyway.



edit for typo

[pipi_k]

42. Yeah, I kind of feel like I'm failing some big test or something

when I can't dig up the appropriate emotions, but I'm fresh out of outrage and disappointment and any other negative emotion, having spent it all during the eight long, miserable years of the Bush Disaster.

Maybe it's dangerous to think that, at this point, just about ANYONE would be better than Bush was.

I realize that not everything Obama does will make me happy, and that's just the way it is. I don't think I'll ever be sorry I voted for him, though.

All in all, he was a way better choice than the alternative (McCain and Palin), and there is NO candidate who's going to make everybody happy anyway...I don't care who it is. We can't find everything we want in one person.

I'm optimistic about our country's future for the first time in 8 years, and for now, that's good enough.

:)

[treestar]

45. This place should be jubilant now

Can't imagine freeperland full of criticisms of their beloved chimp this time four years ago.

There's something about it that just bugs me.

We the People includes a lot of people who are not DUers or even liberals. Obama said he's be President of all of them. He never said he'd avenge the liberals.

[azmouse]

47. Nothing has dampened my excitement at having this man for our President.

I'm more than willing to give him time to fix the mess we're in before I get too critical.

[Uzybone]

51. Obama is just going to have to perform miracles

or else he will not be good enough. The people incessantly bashing him now should really have voted for a different candidate, because there is nothing he is doing now that is different from his campaign rhetoric.

He is being bashed for proposing tax cuts: don't we all remember that Obamataxcut.com site? Wasn't it a centerpiece of his economic plan from day 1.

Bashed for reaching out to the other side: As if that should surprise anyone.

Bashed for not being vindicative enough at Lieberman. Bashed for renting a vacation home. Bashed for not "speaking out" on Gaza.

I don't think people understand how deep of a pickle we are in. If they did they wouldn't waste a second lamenting irrelevant issues like Gupta.

[phleshdef]

52. I'm not very cool with the Brennan appointment, but I expected something to bother me at some point.

I'm not president and no matter who got elected, they would do things differently than I would. But mostly I'm just relieved we have a very smart guy who is pragmatic, resourceful, thoughtful of others opinions and geniunely seems to want to do a good job. Its going to be such a tremendous change from the past 8 years on those merits alone.

But even with this one appointment that I don't like, I don't feel inclined to bother complaining about it too much because the people that are always complaining have really turned me off to the idea of complaining at all.

[jenmito]

54. K&R. I hear ya. n/t

[Vinca]

55. I absolutely adore the guy. My Kool-Aid must've been a double.

:fistbump:

[sniffa]

56. That's fabulous news

[Cha]

58. I've had strong disagreements but

I wrote to Barack.

http://change.gov/page/content/openforquestions20081229/

I'm so grateful we're discussing this instead the horror show that was the mccain-palin all trick pony show.

[mopinko]

60. i hear ya.

but i am just gonna show up in d.c. for the inauguration, and hang with people who are thrilled like me. so glad i will have the chance.

the others? well, there are just a lot of people for whom bitching is an addiction. sorry for them.

[Robyn66]

62. I hear you

Frankly, I am so glad that we are not waiting for McCain to be sworn in that I am unapologetically giddy about Obama still!

My feeling is that in spite of the appointments and decisions he has made that have upset people, I am perfectly content to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do before I get pissed off. We have all survived the worst president in history who has nearly destroyed this country with the help of his accomplices. I believe Obama is one hell of a smart man. I am willing to give him time.

I have seen a lot of posts talking about how DU isn't as much fun as it used to be and I for one agree. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing and having lively debate but too often it has devolved into vicious personal attacks and accusations of racism gay bashing or not being progressive enough.

We all had a common cause during the general election but now it looks like we are eating our own and don't the Republicans love to see that!

Mostly I was away because of the whole Mastectomy/chemo thing I am going through but I have been lurking for a while and I am kind of sad at what I have been seeing.

[dothemath]

63. Wise up. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Recognize that all republicans are not as stupid as the ones we see spouting their crap on TV and in the print media.

Consider this. A few of them may have made the connection between the futility of constantly screaming how wrong it is not to have republicans in charge of everything, particularly in light of the fact that they don't get another chance to destroy the country for 4 years. They know human beings have the shortest memory of any organism on earth and they also know human beings have demonstrated throughout history that nothing is to be learned from ... history.

I suspect there are republican moles worming their way into forums such as this one as 'sheep in wolves clothing' and they will go for the jugular when they feel the time is right.

They have nothing more to lose for a couple of years. They can learn more from inside the camp of the enemy (us) than they can from the outside.

Meanwhile, they still have the Hannitys, Limbaughs, Coulters, Cantors, et. al.

You have been warned, democrats, time to get smart. Republicans must not be allowed to regain anything that smacks of political or financial power again, ever.

[leftofthedial]

64. if nothing he's done bothers you all that much,

then maybe you ARE out of place here.

[tavalon]

65. Hey, this is vacation time!

It's been a long fucking 8 years and until Jan 20th, I have other things to worry about. Yes, I got my panties in a wad about Rahm Immanuel, but I got over my bad self. What I'm not going to do is repeat the Pres. Clinton mistake - this is not a four year break, I'm taking. I will have Obama's back but I will also have his feet to the fire and I hope everyone on DU figures out how to have that combination.

[psychopomp]

66. I am pissed that I won't be in DC for the parties

nor the USA, for that matter. Oh, but I think I can still get my party on from across the Pacific :party:

[nightrain]

68. have you talked with a LGBT activist person lately?

I would imagine that a progressive person might be disappointed with Obama for a few of the decisions he's made lately.

[quaker bill]

70. I am with you

I would put my liberal creds up against any here. I have been protesting republicans consistently since Nixon. For quite some time it was a fairly lonely undertaking, when the protest crowds shrank to half a dozen or less. It is nice to be in a larger crowd again.

As unfortunate as Rick Warren might well be, in the context of a time when our country has been starting wars for no discernable reason, I simply cannot get all that worked up about a 2 minute invocation that I am sure I will disagree with at some level. It is an issue, but it is just not big enough to overcome 8 years of outrage fatigue.

I was never of the impression that Barack Obama was some progressive messiah, but I started sending money in his direction in 2004. I was convinced that he was the most effectively progressive of the electable candidates. I have been convinced since well before the primaries that he was the best chance we had to take back the Whitehouse, and getting control of the veto pen is a very important thing. If he simply refuses to obstruct progressive change, then we, acting on congress can make things happen.

A President cannot make change happen, congress is required. They need to make the laws, and he needs just to sign them. It is not time to get angry, it is time to get busy.

[FrenchieCat]

76. I just think some people are confused about the outcome of this election....

They thought we were voting them into office, when we were voting for Obama.

The ones that get me the most are those who are criticizing Obama's tax cut offering, as though that is not what he talked about at every single fucking speech he gave up and down the U.S.

[defendandprotect]

77. So you like Warren . . . ?

And Gates . . . ?

And Larry Summers . . . . ?

And DLC policy making . . . ?

"The king is dead -- long live the king" . . . ?

I don't think that's what most of us had in mind when we voted for Democrats -- !!!

I didn't vote for someone who can "walk on water" -- I voted for someone who would

bring CHANGE -- i.e., something different from Gates, Larry Summers and DLC ---

something different from r-w policies and warmonger/warmaking.

Is that in the cards ? We can keep hoping ---

But we have seen what Pelosi/Reid have done re war . . . AFTER Pelosi made clear on film

that Dems were elected to "end the war."

[JimGinPA]

81. No, But I Have Also Said...

In my OP I haven't felt obliged to defend any of his decisions for the most part, or to argue with those who have voiced their objections over practically everything he's done to this point.

But I will address these few points;

Warren:

In response #26 I said I don't give a fuck about who gives an invocation at Obama's inauguration, as I am neither religious, anti-gay nor anti-woman. (in other words Warren doesn't represent my views, nor in my opinion Obama's) and in response #41 I said He has said that he will work with people like Warren where there is common ground but that he disagrees with him on many issues. Warren's views are not neccessarily Obama's, and Warren isn't going to be there to speak for him, but to my point of view he will merely be there to honor him.

Gates:

It seems to me over the last year and a half or so Gates' statements have pretty much in line with Obama's. He is a transitional appointment who is not going to set policy, but to carry out Obama's policies. He'll be replaced in a year or so, but in the meantime he fufills a campaign promise to include repubs in the cabinet.

Summers:

I have heard him praised as a great choice from both the left and the right, from people whose knowledge on economic matters far exceeds mine. I can only claim 6 credit hours of economics nearly 30 years ago, so I'll just trust Obama on this one.

Not much in the remainder of your post merits discussion, other than the "warmonger/warmaking" bit. I was pissed after 9/11 and I supported the action in Afghanistan. I still do, even though my niece's husband was sent there just before Christmas. On the other hand, I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning. Obama has said he will end it and I believe he will.

[defendandprotect]

90. Respecting Separation of Church & State as the Founders did ...

Warren:

In response #26 I said I don't give a fuck about who gives an invocation at Obama's inauguration, as I am neither religious, anti-gay nor anti-woman. (in other words Warren doesn't represent my views, nor in my opinion Obama's) and in response #41 I said He has said that he will work with people like Warren where there is common ground but that he disagrees with him on many issues. Warren's views are not neccessarily Obama's, and Warren isn't going to be there to speak for him, but to my point of view he will merely be there to honor him.

What you are saying is that you neither care for Separation of Church & State nor democracy . . .
because the latter is dependent on the former.


Gates:

It seems to me over the last year and a half or so Gates' statements have pretty much in line with Obama's. He is a transitional appointment who is not going to set policy, but to carry out Obama's policies. He'll be replaced in a year or so, but in the meantime he fufills a campaign promise to include repubs in the cabinet.

Gates was part of the "October Surprise" -- a primary player -- in treason.


Summers:

I have heard him praised as a great choice from both the left and the right, from people whose knowledge on economic matters far exceeds mine. I can only claim 6 credit hours of economics nearly 30 years ago, so I'll just trust Obama on this one.

Look at his history at BU for one . . .
And does it not disturb you that the right-wingers have so little dissent for Obama's picks?

[relayerbob]

79. Frankly, I think many people have lost ..

their way. They've spent so long protesting, that they've lost eight of the bigger picture. The one where millions of us are unemployed, and millions more are without healthcare, or food, or homes. The one where real human rights are lost in the haze in an argument over one particular specific case or issue or another. The one were we need to stop the partisan bickering and pissing on legs so we can make progress. The one where we need to stop the radical right vs radical left bipolar world that has led us to war after war and allowed the rich to steal all of our money, and to stop basing our actions on vengence and anger, rather than re-learning how to co-operate to solve the problems we all face.

Now, some just have to fight, because they don't know what else to do. They've been fighting for so long, they are like the Israelis and Palestinans, who cannot stop fighting because they know no other way. They'd rather fight about some marginally relevant preacher giving an invocation sermon, or whether a few percent of one group of the population will get a right they won't really exercise, or whether this appointee or that is "liberal" enough to pass thier litmus tests. They'd rather whine about whether their own pet project is being addressed in exactly the way they want rather than look at how they can actually help to solve the 15 or so HUGE MASSIVE problems that face us as a nation and as a species.

Don't feel bad, there are alot of us who feel the way you do, and alot of people who have quit reading DU and Kos and the other dens of whiners, or have become frustrated lurkers, looking for where we can go to make a real difference, rather than simply find a way to complain. And some of the people here would rather form a circular firing squad and insult and attack their own allies, just because we have a different opinion on the tactics required to reach the changes we all need.

Is Obama perfect? No. Did anybody bother to notice that he is following "Audacity of Hope" almost to the letter? Apparently not. How many actually read it, I wonder? We finally have a grown-up in office, and we should be happy for that. He's got to make decisions for all of us, not just one or another minority. Of course, people have the right to debate the issues, and should. I have no problem with that, but that isn't what is happening. At some point, the fighters will either figure out that their fighting is counter-productive or they will discover that they have become even more marginalized than ever. Considering so many of us are on the far left are not in agreement with the bickering, it's too bad that we can't have some sort of positive activity in places like this, so we have some place to go to discuss real change and making real positive progress on reaching our goals.

I fully expect to be flamed for exercising my freedom to tell the whiners that they are simply whining. Flame away.

[firedupdem]

88. Great Post and your sig line is beautiful! n/t

[Uzybone]

89. Awesome post

[Spryboy]

80. Oh please.

Don't pretend you have to "think up" reasons... they're all right there. If you can't understand why people are upset over Rick Warren, FISA, the tax-cut package, and any of a dozen other issues, then you're not really trying too hard to understand.

[JimGinPA]

82. Oh, I understand why people are upset ...

I just think the reaction (over-reaction?) here has been way over the top. It's made this board nearly unbearable for the last couple of weeks.

[Skittles]

84. you don't get it

you just don't fucking get it

[Skittles]

83. that's too bad

it's disgusting, really

[JimGinPA]

85. You've Been An Obama Basher For A Long Time

I have no respect for you or your opinions whatsoever.

[Skittles]

93. LOL

gawd you are pathetic - I CAMPAIGNED FOR OBAMA

[WyoHiker]

86. HIS TOILET PAPER ROLL IS TOP-OVER, instead of bottom-under!!

If that doesn't get your blood to boiling, then nothing will.

[fadedrose]

87. If you think you feel out of place, declare your love for Dean...nt

[NEDem]

96. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours

[davidpdx]

98. I've decided to be pissed and outraged

that he is much better looking then I am.