Turley on KO right now discussing war crimes.nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

[deminks]

1. He could not be any clearer. Crimes were committed.

Looking forward does not apply. It doesn't apply to the guy who robbed the store down the street, and it doesn't apply to the Chimperor.

[Vattel]

2. what crimes? (I can't watch the show)

[Berry Cool]

3. Um, we all just survived eight years of Bush

and you have to ask "what crimes?" just because you couldn't watch a TV show? :rofl:

[Vattel]

17. Don't be silly.

I was interested in what criminal statutes apply to Bush.

[Clio the Leo]

5. Bush said...

.... on that interview this weekend in Faux News, that his admin. questioned attorneys on what "tools" they had at their disposal to use on Kahlid Muhammed and the rest. ie He admitted authorizing "torture."

The ONLY problem I had with Turley's argument just now was he based it on "Obama said waterboarding is torture." Well, I understand why he said that. In Obama's mind it's torture so he's obligated to prosecute. But Barack is not one in charge of deciding what's torture or not. I mean, any reasonable person can see it is, but isn't it still a matter of debate by those who decide those things?

Who's in charge of deciding what's torture and what's not? (that's a serious question)

[WinkyDink]

6. No, it isn't a matter of debate. It is torture.

[Clio the Leo]

8. So say you and I....

... Cheney and some other dipwads disagree.

Again, my question is WHO is ultimately in charge of determining whether it is or isn't?

[mmonk]

12. The Eighth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

The Eighth Amendment (Amendment VIII) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights which prohibits the federal government from imposing excessive bail, excessive fines or cruel and unusual punishments.

[Clio the Leo]

13. So it's up to the Fed. courts to decide?

My confusion was whether it was the Federal courts or some kind of special, perhaps even international, body.

[mmonk]

15. Through the 14th amendment, it applies to the states as well.

In essence, this is federal. The Geneva Convention was ratified, and is thus part of our law but UNDER the Constitution. That doesn't preclude any other countries or international bodies from trying but they won't carry weight here.

[OwnedByFerrets]

10. The way I understand it, waterboarding is torture as defined by

The Geneva Convention.

Article 3

In the case of armed conflict not of an international character occurring in the territory of one of the High Contracting Parties, each party to the conflict shall be bound to apply, as a minimum, the following provisions: 1. Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms and those placed hors de combat by sickness, wounds, detention, or any other cause, shall in all circumstances be treated humanely, without any adverse distinction founded on race, colour, religion or faith, sex, birth or wealth, or any other similar criteria. To this end the following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to the above-mentioned persons: (a) Violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture; (b) Taking of hostages; (c) Outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment; (d) The passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court affording all the judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples.

[Clio the Leo]

14. And who enforces the Geneva Convention?

Is it left to each country to self-police? The UN?

[mmonk]

16. In the US, federal courts would decide. Treaties can become

part of our laws but cannot supersede the Constitution. Federal Courts determine the outcome since they apply the Constitution to law.

[MarjorieG]

4. Reality of lower level consumed with 'lawyering up'-then exec branch exempt

Do we want, instead, to investigate without the politicization and revenge meme pushed by media? Going forward to solve problems, especially for those who don't understand what happened, think it's too abstract, old news, and need help.

Just sayin'...

[ProSense]

7. Video

here

[Medusa]

9. Turley can talk about all he wants

so can we. It won't change a damn thing--no one is going to charge the Bush junta with anything.

[OwnedByFerrets]

11. I sure hope you are wrong.

[avaistheone1]

18. I hope so too. Otherwise the US is just another monarchy or

maybe a dictatorship with an irrelevant Constitution.