Amid all he discussion of the first AA president,

[Critters2]

the assumption that we'll have a woman pres soon, etc....I find myself wondering. How long until we have an out gay/lesbian president?
It's clear that homophobia is still a perfectly acceptable position, even for Obama. I wonder when that kind of thinking will change.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. First There Needs To Be A Gay/Lesbian Candidate That Is Worthy Of Such.

I firmly believe that if there was a gay/lesbian candidate with as much skill and talent of Obama, that they'd have a shot as well.

[Critters2]

3. I'm guessing there have been worthy gay/les candidates

who couldn't get past the local level. Discrimination against glbt people is still fully acceptable, as the Warren invitation demonstrates. Or as CNN's use of Roland Martin as a political analyst demonstrates. Anti-semites or anti-black racists would never be given such respect.

[BlooInBloo]

23. My guess is that we've already had one.

[Critters2]

25. Re-read the OP. I said an OUT gay pres. We haven't had one yet. nt

[Crazy Dave]

2. In my lifetime I hope

I'm glad that I was around for this one.

I'd still die happy if I live long enough to see gay Americans treated like....Americans

[bluestateguy]

4. I'd give it at least 40 years

Blacks are 13% of the population, and look how long it took. Gays and lesbians are about 3% of the population; on an evolving civil rights scale, I'd say we are at about where we were in 1955 with black civil rights.

[Critters2]

7. Credible sources put the glbt community at about 10% of the population.

Anti-gay soources use the 2-3% figures.

[Solon]

9. Ever notice how WAY too many people here always use the 2-3% cite?

I always found it fascinating, myself.

[Critters2]

10. They can feel okay about telling 2-3% of Americans to STFU. nt

[Solon]

11. Yeah, when it gets up to 10% or so, it begins to sound...bigoted. n/t

[cali]

5. How long until we have a Muslim President or a Jewish President

let alone an atheist president? And calling Obama homophobic is just moronic.

[Solon]

8. Does he support Marriage Equality?

If not, then...draw your own conclusions and I'll draw mine.

[Lucky 13]

13. Then, by your logic, is Former President Clinton homophobic?

He created DADT, one of the most stupid, failed, bigoted policies towards gay people.

And Obama is about to repeal it...

Discuss...

[Solon]

17. Yes, your point? n/t

[Lucky 13]

26. just curious... and clarifying...

so his promised repeal of DADT... does that mean anything to you?

[Solon]

28. Of course it does, but so does this as well...

"I do not support gay marriage. Marriage has religious and social connotations, and I consider marriage to be between a man and a woman." --Obama

[Lucky 13]

30. So then that would make the 99% of democratic leadership homophobes.

If that statement makes him a homophobe in your book, why did you vote for him? (If you did.)

AND.. if you knew that's where he was coming from in the first place, why all the outrage NOW?

[Solon]

32. Yes I did vote for him, because McCain is worse, lesser of two evils and all that...

and I have no problem calling out the rest of the Democratic leadership as Homophobes, hell, the new Governor of my State Supported my state's Constitutional Amendment that banned Gay Marriage, and he's a Democrat! He's a homophobic asshole as well, so is Kaine.

As far as the outrage, well, its not like we are surprised at Obama's policy positions, but that doesn't mean we can't be pissed at some of his actions, even before entering office. The President-Elect has fucked up, it is just that simple.

[Lucky 13]

33. "The President-Elect has fucked up, it is just that simple." In YOUR opinion...

My opinion is very different. And you need to acknowledge that your opinion is no more valid than mine... and vice versa. That does not make me a homophobe. That makes me different from you.

In my opinion he is going to do great things for the advancement of gay rights. But before he even has a chance to do so, the gay community is lashing out at him for shit that doesn't even really matter... who says a prayer... who HBO televises. All that shit to me is SILLY.

If Rick Warren NOT giving the prayer will get me marriage rights, or the right to serve openly in the military, or the right to adopt, I'd be with you shoulder to shoulder protesting my ass off. But his presence or absence is MEANINGLESS and you are giving ONE MAN more credit than he deserves. His presence there is just a GESTURE to the evangelicals. A GESTURE to show Obama is EVERYONE's president... not just the left. If he wants to make that gesture, if he thinks it will help him once in office, I am fine with that.

All I care about is what POLICIES Obama enacts while in office. To judge and attack him before he even has a CHANCE to make any meaningful change is foolish, completely misses the big picture, and could very well be tantamount to us shooting ourselves in the foot.

But that's just my opinion...

[Critters2]

18. I'll believe Obama is about to repeal it when it's been repealed.

He's already put off repealing it. His staff says it won't be until 2010.


If then.

[Lucky 13]

27. Well he does have more important shit to work on...

like ending genocide, a war, a global economic collapse, etc...

There are several important issues that are going to have to wait until he deals with the big stuff...

[Critters2]

29. So, you admit that he's not about to repeal it, then.

Oh, and a president should be able to do more than one thing at a time. Repealing DADT shouldn't take that much effort.



If his heart were in it.

[Lucky 13]

31. You are deliberately twisting my words and being intellectually dishonest.

I just bet someone 50 bucks DADT would be repealed in his first term. I TRULY believe that. If he said he'll do it, I believe he'll do it.

But if I were making a list of priorities, it's not at the top. In fact, not even in the top 10. People are fucking DYING and abject poverty is skyrocketing. We MUST address these things FIRST!

Things to tackle before DADT:
I want our troops out of Iraq.
I want to do something about the GENOCIDE that is taking place in Gaza.
I want us to do something about people losing their homes and not being able to financially survive or feed their children.
I want us to act on climate change issues.
I want us to close GITMO.
I want us to end torture.
I want us to restore our basic constitutional rights.

He is going to be juggling 10-15 MAJOR global issues for the first year or two. So it is unreasonable, naive and/or stupid to think that this could be in his top priorities for the first year. But he will get to it... because he said he would.

You are choosing to focus on the negative. You apparently WANT to believe the worst of him. You WANT to believe he is lying about DADT. You WANT to believe he is not doing it fast enough.

The man has the weight of the entire world on his shoulders. He's not even in office yet. How bout we calm the fuck down and see what he does when he actually gets there?

In the meantime, I am ELATED that we have HIM as our leader. I'm ELATED that Chimpy has less than 24hours to go. I'm HOPEFUL about our future. I'm SECURE knowing we are in good hands.

Try focusing on the positives instead of fear and insecurity for 10 seconds and the next 24 hours will be much more enjoyable.

[VADem11]

14. Ok then

Not supporting marriage equality is not tantamount to being a homophobe. I highly doubt he would want any members of the GLBT community working for him or even mention gays in his speeches if he were truly a homophobe. It's disappointing that he doesn't but do not try to equate that with full on hatred of the GLBT community.

[Solon]

19. You do understand that there are degrees of homophobia, right?

Not everyone is a Fred Phelps or a Rick Warren after all. There are those who are, let's just say, uncomfortable with the idea of Gays getting married, hell, Obama himself has articulated more or less that same position before. But of course, the question is, is being a "soft" homophobe any better?

[cali]

24. uh, yes, advocating for and believing that GLBT folks

should have all the federal right of marriage is clearly better than advocating againt it. Repealing DADT is clearly better than believing it should stay in place. These are no brainers. Couldn't be much clearer that those are better positions to hold.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. Ay yay yay

...

[Lucky 13]

12. "It's clear that homophobia is still a perfectly acceptable position, even for Obama"

I take severe issue with that statement. and I'm tired of people being accused of homophobia that are so clearly NOT homophobic. The name calling wins you no friends or allies and will not advance our cause.

[Critters2]

16. He finds homophobia acceptable. That's absolutely clear.

Witness the Warren invitation. Obama is comfortable with homophobes and homophobia. He has no problem with that position.

[Courtesy Flush]

15. And Atheist!

[CreekDog]

20. well this happened sooner than i thought

i'm kinda hoping that one will too.

my guess is that it will take an extraordinary individual and one who inspires many to go the extra mile to get him/her elected.

[ecstatic]

21. It's clear, even for Obama?

:eyes:

[Critters2]

22. So, he supports equal rights for gays?

No. No, he doesn't.

[Jennicut]

34. Its going to take a long time. Gays needed to be treated as human beings first

in this country.