For those who think inaugural invocations matter

[Political Tiger]

January 20, 1937 inaugural of Franklin D. Roosevelt

Invocation by Chaplain ZeBarney Phillips

***

January 20, 1941 inaugural of Franklin D. Roosevelt

Invocation by Chaplain ZeBarney Phillips

***

January 20, 1945 inaugural of Franklin D. Roosevelt

Invocation by Bishop Angus Dun

***

January 20, 1949 inaugural of Harry S. Truman

Invocation by Rev. Edward Hughes Pruden

***

January 21, 1957 inaugural of Dwight D. Eisenhower

Invocation by Rev. Edward L. R. Elson

***

January 20, 1961 inaugural of John F. Kennedy

Invocation by Richard Cardinal Cushing

***

January 20, 1965 inaugural of Lyndon B. Johnson

Invocation by Archbishop Robert E. Lucey

***

January 20, 1969 inaugural of Richard M. Nixon

Invocation by Rev. Charles Ewbank Tucker

***

January 20, 1973 inaugural of Richard M. Nixon

Invocation by Rev. E. V. Hill

***

January 20, 1977 inaugural of James E. Carter

Invocation by Rev. William Cannon

***

January 20, 1981 inaugural of Ronald W. Reagan

Invocation by Rev. Donn Moomaw

***

January 21, 1985 inaugural of Ronald W. Reagan

Invocation by Rev. Timothy S. Healy

***

January 20, 1989 inaugural of George H. W. Bush

Invocation by Rev. Billy Graham

***

January 20, 1993 inaugural of William J. Clinton

Invocation by Rev. Billy Graham

***

January 20, 1997 inaugural of William J. Clinton

Invocation by Rev. Billy Graham

***

January 20, 2001 inaugural of George W. Bush

Invocation by Rev. Franklin Graham

***

January 20, 2005 inaugural of George W. Bush

Invocation by Rev. Luis León

**************

Now ask yourself, did the world change after any of these invocations??

[merwin]

1. I don't know... that Rev. Edward Hughes Pruden has a sinister ring to his name.

:sarcasm:

[leftstreet]

2. Not one Prez you've listed had Obama's Rock Star Status

[Political Tiger]

7. Yeah....FDR, JFK, Reagan, Clinton

Nobody paid any attention to them..............

[leftstreet]

11. They were popular Presidents - not ROCK STAR Presidents making HISTORY

But then you know this

[Political Tiger]

22. Really? FDR, JFK, Reagan & Clinton didn't make history?

No, I didn't know that.

PS: Interesting use of the right-wing talking point "ROCK STAR."

[leftstreet]

23. BWAHAHA "Rock Star" is now a RW talking point?

:rofl:

Jesus. Give it up.

[No Elephants]

62. Whether deserved or not, Graham had an iconic status going back to at least 1950 or so. So put him

in a class of his own, like Sen. Byrd. But times change.

Is your implication that choosing a hater like Warren should continue to be acceptable to members of the GLBT community and their supporters forever? If not, what is your thought? If so, what is your reasoning?

[HughMoran]

24. Is that an argument?

Rock stars are big into religious invocations?

:wtf:

[nevergiveup]

26. Did you ever attend a John Kennedy

campaign rally? I did in Springfield Illinois in 1960 and it was crazy He was by any measure used today, a rock star.

[leftstreet]

27. Duh, I forgot. Kennedy was the first African American Prez

:eyes:

[No Elephants]

38. He was the first Irish President. And the first Catholic President. And, I think, the

youngest.

[OhioBlue]

55. youngest elected pres

I think TR was actually the youngest.

[PeaceNikki]

3. You understand it's not about "the world changing", right?

Oh wait, no you don't. You clearly don't get it at all.

I'm going to go explain it to my cats, I have a much better shot at getting them to understand.

[flvegan]

10. +1

[Political Tiger]

12. Oh my, if only I had your insight!

Apparently only you gets it. How lucky you are!

[PeaceNikki]

13. tsssst

[Bluebear]

47. +1

[EFerrari]

4. Telling people that what they care about is not important is a loser's strategy.

[Fran Kubelik]

6. thank you, sfexpat!!

[JimGinPA]

14. I Suppose Heaping Abuse On Posters Of A Proggressive Message Board...

Is the only way to advance your agenda.

[EFerrari]

18. Do you?

[JimGinPA]

19. What? Answer A Question With A Question?

[No Elephants]

57. Continually referring to the gay "agenda" doesn't sound all that progressive. In your mind,

what is this "agenda" of which you speak? Asking for respect? Or empathy? Or an apology for being ridiculed all day when you are right?

Yeah, none of that should get anyone too far with progressives.

Better progressives should honor those who spew hate.

[H2O Man]

16. I agree.

I also suspect that the "see? nothing changed" bit misses the point. We want change, not more of the same.

[Political Tiger]

17. Since I said nothing of the sort

I have to wonder who here is the loser?

[EFerrari]

20. "For those who think inaugural invocations matter."

[Hanse]

5. I posted a similar thread some time ago.

Billy Graham, for example, is a noted homophobe and anti-semite.

When I posted, I got mostly deafening silence, and a few people remarking the deafening silence.

And I also got a couple of people who defended the Graham pick and Graham's character. In those cases, they were people who were furious over Obama's Warren pick.

Rather ironic.

[Political Tiger]

21. For some, irrational outrage is more important

than simple common sense.

[EFerrari]

25. And for some, it's simpler to try to invalidate others

than to deal with the issues.

[No Elephants]

52. Meaning those who disagree with you? One could say .

much the same thing about idolatry and common sense or denial and common sense. Or always excusing obama and common sense. All just other ways of namecalling. Doen't really move the discussion in one direction or another.

[PeaceNikki]

8. tsssst

[Political Tiger]

15. I guess this cartoon is supposed to mean something?

I'll have to ask my 16 year old nephew what it means as I don't communicate via cartoons.

[Zenlitened]

29. "I don't communicate via cartoons."

Sure you do. This OP, for example. It's clearly the product of a cartoonish, two-dimensional understanding of Warren's selection and the reaction to it.

[Political Tiger]

31. Of course! How could little ole me possibly understand?

That's reserved for those who dismiss logic for emotion, eh?

[Zenlitened]

35. Pretzel-logic? Sure, go for it.

Aristotle was all about the salty snacks!

[lamp_shade]

9. Nope... and I don't care if Obama had picked Rev. "Jim" Ignatowski... it's his choice.

[treestar]

28. Exactly. No one's ever heard of them, or in Graham's case, who

knew he did that? But thanks to DU, I'll always know who Rick Warren is and that he got to do the invocation.

Without DU, I'm pretty sure I would have ignored the invocation entirely.

[Balderdash]

59. Education is a good thing. Listening to other perspectives

is a good thing. And you're right you certainly wouldn't
learn anything new at say Freeperville. That's why I like
DU.

[sundog]

30. we're living in the communication age

that was then, this is now

past eras did not see the rapid exchange of ideas & information that we see currently

you can't really equate today's processing of information to that of decades past - different story altogether

[Obamarama]

32. Okay...JUST STOP NOW.

Can we stop with the friggin' tiresome invocation threads?

Look, I'm gay, and I was mildly disappointed in the choice of Warren but it really registered as relatively unimportant on my list of things to get upset about. Seriously, it's just not something that's a big deal to me. I think it's ridiculous to have ANY religious overtones whatsoever to an inaugaration, so whoever is giving the invocation is the wrong guy or woman in my mind.

That being said, I do understand that many of my gay brothers and sisters were upset by the choice of Warren. Just because it didn't upset me doesn't mean they don't have the right to be upset.

Step the fuck outside of your own skin for a moment and TRY to understand where those who are upset are coming from. And quit posting these tiresome Warren/Invocation threads to bait people into arguing and back biting when we should all be celebrating.

I've been shying away from DU since the election because I knew that lots of misanthropes would find something to mold into so much drama and gnashing of teeth. Fuck this shit...I'm going back into "retirement."

[Political Tiger]

37. If you're yelling at me

you should be advised this is the first "Warren/Invocation thread" I have started in at least a month.

Unlike some of my gay brothers and sisters, I don't do a Warren thread every other day. In fact, I generally stay away from them because what has been said has been said, an there's not much to add, but I reserve my right to speak out on the matter when I deem appropriate to do so.

After seeing the slate of THE WORLD IS ABOUT TO END BECAUSE RICK WARREN IS SAYING A PRAYER threads posted today, I decided to try to make a point, even with the knowledge it would probably fall on deaf ears. So kill me!

[Obamarama]

41. I'm not yelling at you...I'm yelling at everyone thinking about starting one of these threads.

And, no, I don't want to kill you.

But you could work on being a little less patronizing.

[Political Tiger]

43. Sorry, I guess I'm just used to being yelled at here!

No offense intended!

[mkultra]

40. i think most everyone on the left was mildly dissapointed regarding warren

Its cause to be upset, whats getting tiresome is the magnitude of the response.

[No Elephants]

60. Many were more than mildly upset and some were very pained. But

the brouhaha would have calmed down, IMO, if more people here would just admit it was a poor choice. Or if there were some end in sight to discrimination against members of the GLBT community. But the continual responses seem to range from STFU, to not yet (or yet, or yet, or yet) to Obama's perfect in every way (unless I say different) and how dare you imply otherwise?

[mkultra]

74. i dont think it was a poor choice

I think it was the right choice. I think that some people are so pissed about prop 8 that they think that they can some how go to war with the bigoted voters and magically change their vote.

You have to make them see the truth, that means they have to listen.

As far as im concerned, it equates to inviting Strom Thurmand to a civil right rally. If you can get him to come, it will only help him.

[mitchtv]

67. Many staits were "mildly" upset

and many Gays in Calif who were just married were wildly upset. It was an insult of the first magnitude , a public slap across the face after a huge Humiliation . So pardon me if I don't like it, am not gonna like it, and no longer trust the people who chose him to be the nation's pastor especially after choosing to put him on Rev King's pulpit striking a note of "unity"?. It's no big thing if you are a first class citizen , it's a little different if you are lookin at the state disolving your marriage. Making light of the effect just doesn't strike a note with me.

[mkultra]

73. well, the california thing was wrong

very wrong. And warren had alot to do with that. But its not cause to reflect that anger on Obama, because frankly he hasn't done anything to materially effect the cause. The GBLT community is pissed about prop 8 as they should be, but Obama and MANY of his supporters feel that the only way to get a state issues like this resolved is to be inclusive to those who would vote against it. You cant lock them away and round them up, so you do what actually works. Railing against them and freezing them out will NOT work.

I think maybe the community is to pissed to see this truth. In the end, your anger will only hurt you.

[mitchtv]

75. your answer: reward my enemies

Your advice is noted

[mkultra]

76. note this

one Edit:

Never mind. i hope that eventually the hatred toward obama here can come to a steady hum and people can try and understand the purpose of warrens invitation. Your snarky response is something i would loved to crack back about but i think ill just ask you to try can calm down and see my point.

[mitchtv]

77. from privilege

to the second class "calm down"

[mkultra]

79. you assume to much.

[tekisui]

33. It matters enough for your researched post?

:shrug:

[Political Tiger]

34. Wikipedia did the research

I just made the post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inaugural_ceremony_prayers_(US_presidential)

[Starry Messenger]

36. The world changed considerably in every era you name.

Not saying the two are related. But I don't think this is helping.

[No Elephants]

39. Hope you didn't hurt yourself building that huge straw man. No one is claiming that

the Warren Invocation will change the world. The claim is that Obama should not have chosen him.

[JVS]

42. Well it looks like they started mattering when the Graham family muscled in on all the action!

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zenlitened]

45. "There seems to be no other reason to have posted this except to stir up a fight."

[Bluebear]

49. good to see you friend . .

I think my time is almost at an end at this board, good bumping into you! :)

[Zenlitened]

63. Normally I'd say "Don't let the bastards get you down...

... or drive you away."

But... it does get tiresome, doesn't it? :(

[No Elephants]

51. I estimate that to be true of at least a majority of the threads in this forum.

[Zenlitened]

64. Imagine the savings in bandwidth and storage space...

... if that was the standard for locking, universally applied!

:rofl:

[psychopomp]

58. For somebody Zenlitened you sure are having a tough time "getting it"

:think:

[Zenlitened]

61. For somebody physcotic and pompous...

:D

Am I hearin' ya right?

[psychopomp]

66. You are hearing yourself

:think:

[Zenlitened]

68. What are you hearing?

[psychopomp]

70. Chapstick

[cherokeeprogressive]

46. It did.

January 20, 1941 inaugural of Franklin D. Roosevelt - Invocation by Chaplain ZeBarney Phillips
Caused us to enter WWII

January 20, 1945 inaugural of Franklin D. Roosevelt - Invocation by Bishop Angus Dun
Caused the death of FDR and preceded the dropping of two atomic weapons

January 20, 1949 inaugural of Harry S. Truman - Invocation by Rev. Edward Hughes Pruden
Caused the Korean War

January 20, 1961 inaugural of John F. Kennedy - Invocation by Richard Cardinal Cushing
A President was assassinated after this one

January 20, 1965 inaugural of Lyndon B. Johnson - Invocation by Archbishop Robert E. Lucey
After this one combat troops were sent to Vietnam for the first time

Do you see a pattern here? Or should I continue?

[Political Tiger]

50. You're not serious are you? n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. At least as serious as you.

[Political Tiger]

54. Ooookayyyyyyyyyy........

:crazy:

[cherokeeprogressive]

56. The point of your OP? I ask this as the father of a daughter who recently came out.

What was your point? Was it that people who don't think like you should STFU?

[Political Tiger]

65. It's tiresome that any post that presents a different point of view

Automatically gets spinned into a "STFU" post.

Anyway, my point is simple.

Despite the gloom and doom crowd, the world will not end tomorrow afternoon, and the rights of gay people is not going to suffer a setback because of this one single man saying a prayer.

Sure, Rick Warren giving the invocation is an insult, and a disappointment, but in my opinion, that's about it.

It will have no direct impact on the lives of gay Americans unless they decide to let it. Just like it will have no impact on a woman's right to choose, or stem-cell research, or any of the other host of issues that Rick Warren differs with us, as progressives, on.

Congratulations to your daughter for coming out. Hopefully she feels free and proud, like I did when I came out many moons ago.

I don't know how old your daughter is, but I am assuming she is younger than I am - I'm 46. I believe her future will be much brighter than mine was when I came out all those years ago.

I believe that Barack Obama will be a catalyst for that brighter future, and I think she should be awarded the luxury of hope.

I've always had hope, but at the same time I always knew changes would come slowly, so I learned to not let every setback or disappointment sour me or diminish my hope for the betterment of the lives of all gays and lesbians in this country.

I see Rick Warren as a small bump in the road, and it won't be the first, or the last, bump in the road. But that is how life works.

When you get knocked down you can stay down or you can get right back on your feet and move forward. That is what I choose to do.

Others have the perfect right to live their lives as they see fit and not follow my example.

For me, I refuse to become a victim. I refuse to let people like Rick Warren control my life.

Rick Warren is but a symptom of a much larger problem. He not the problem, just part of it. Eliminating or shutting him up is not going to suddenly make everything all right.

I believe that by focusing all our energy and attention to that one man simply distracts us from the greater picture.

So that, in a nutshell, is my point.

If you don't like my point of view, that's fine. I learned a long time ago to not worry myself with what other people think about me, and if anything, I would encourage you to tell your daughter that she should not worry what other people think of her. For me, that has made life something to be celebrated.

[Bluebear]

48. All that work for nothing.

[Cali_Democrat]

69. Who cares....the invocation is meaningless to me

I don't know why so many people are getting so worked up over it.

I think its better that we wait and see what he does after he is sworn in.

[PBS Poll-435]

71. It is not about a "world change"(-e+ing) event

It is about the symbolism.

[rufus dog]

72. My dad left me some Phillips & Dun on 78s

that was some classic shit.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

78. Moronic flamebait.

[SidneyCarton]

80. Have we killed this horse yet???

Those who were offended by Warren had good reason. His invocation was pathetic and banal in the extreme. It's been given, it's over, and Reverend Lowery mopped the floor with Warren's faux piety. Surely we have other things to fight about?

[meegbear]

81. This is ObamaVision's reason d'etre

[NoPasaran]

82. His views aside, I was left puzzled by how Warren became a big-time preacher

I mean, someone like Billy Graham could actually preach.

Rick Warren reminded me of the guy who always tries to sell you an air filter when you're having your oil changed at Jiffy Lube.

[Forkboy]

83. Wrong question. Did these people get more attention because of it?

And did it help them spread their own message afterwards?

Why try so hard to defend Warren, and why try so hard to disparage a group of people who want the same rights we have?