If Caroline isn't Senator Kennedy due to taxes women have a right to be furious

[dsc]

Zoe Baird was Clinton's first choice for AG but hadn't paid taxes on her nanny and her chaffeur so she justifiably in my opinion wasn't approved. Fast forward 16 years. Tim Geither didn't pay taxes on his salary but evidently will get to be Secretary of the Treasury. Now, if the NYT is correct, Caroline Kennedy isn't being appointed because she didn't pay taxes on her maid. Women have a very real right to wonder if the rule is women who don't pay taxes don't get jobs but men skate. I fail to see any difference at all between what Geither did and what Baird did. Both didn't pay taxes they were obligated to pay. This really appears to be a double standard.

[provis99]

1. I agree. Tim Geither is a crook and shouldn't get the job.

Neither should Kennedy.

[Clear Blue Sky]

39. Correct on all counts.

[BlooInBloo]

2. Assuming everything you assume, who, specifically, in your opinion, is to be blamed?

EDIT: By "blamed", I mean blamed for this "double standard".

[dsc]

9. Obama should have withdrawn the nomination of Geither

and failing that the Finance Committee should have voted it down. My brother worked in the exact same situation as Geither and managed to pay his taxes on time and in full. It would be one thing if he had never been warned about this at all but he gets audited, pays the audited years, doesn't pay the ones which fall out of the statute of limitations and then says he made a mistake. Sorry but that dog doesn't hunt.

[BlooInBloo]

13. So on your view, is Obama to be blamed for the double standard you refer to?

[dsc]

14. partially, yes

Geither is, among other things, being appointed to run the IRS and is a tax cheat. I don't believe it was a mistake for a minute for the reasons I sited plus the fact he signed a statement every single year that he paid his SS taxes when the IMF gave him the funds to do so. I can't believe there isn't another person capable of running treasury. Barney Frank comes immediately to mind.

[elleng]

16. Barney isn't a MANAGER!

He's a policy/politician guy!

[dsc]

17. we need policy at treasury not to mention a good spokesman.

[polmaven]

37. Bloo...I assume you don't deny

that there is still a very real predominantly male power structure" in this country. Yes...President Obama is part of it, as is the Senate, which is still overwhelmingly male, as did President Clinton.

Please tell me you don't recognize that there really is a double standard in this country when it comes to male/female issues. Damn...there is a double standard right here at DU!

[CreekDog]

31. Wait, it's Obama's fault that Kennedy is *possibly* being held to different standard (by Paterson)?

:wtf: :crazy:

but don't let your anger at Obama cause you to become irrational and unthinking.

[dsc]

34. Geither should have been rejected

a tax cheat in charge of the IRS is just plain wrong. I don't care who does the appointing. Clinton was wrong to appoint Baird but at least he didn't know at the time of the appointment that she had not paid the taxes.

[CreekDog]

44. Don't change the subject. You are *blaming* Obama for Paterson's pick or not?

:banghead:

[dsc]

47. I think all tax cheats should be treated the same

Obama chose to elevate one to Sec of Treasury aka head of the IRS.

[CreekDog]

49. but you are blaming him for "sexism" in Paterson's action

even though a female was appointed.

I think your OP was not well thought out.

I see what you are getting at, but it's more than a stretch to blame Obama for that unless you can directly link him with a decision to deny CK the appointment. (I'm mainly reacting to the post upthread that you are "blaming" Obama)

[NashVegas]

3. I Don't Believe That's the Underlying Cause

Paterson fucked up, BIG, and now the past 18 hours has been in CYA mode, since no one is buying the Polite Fiction that Caroline bowed out because of Teddy.

We don't even know these charges are true, do we?

Now, he needs other plausible reasons polite or otherwise, for putting someone who has devoted so much effort to public service into a position where they were strategically ridiculed for 6 weeks.

He could have just made his choice public at anytime, and we would all have expected CK to behave like a grown-up. We didn't see anyone calling the media to report Maloney was backing off.

[TheWraith]

20. None of the principals claimed she bowed out because of Ted Kennedy.

That was a claim by an unnamed family source.

I'm as disappointed as anybody that Caroline's not getting it, but whatever her reason obviously she thought she couldn't make it through.

[NashVegas]

22. Except Whomever Leaked To the Press Yesterday

I'm ambivalent; I'd have liked to see her there, but not enough to get overly excited. What I strongly dislike about this whole thing is it's clear Paterson didn't want to name her from the outset, and instead of displaying something that looked like a spine let her hang her ass out there for 6 weeks while Maloney and others pushed the press to ridicule her. *She's a big girl* and I'm sure she'd have been fine if Paterson had named someone else early, rather than let it come to this farce.

[TheWraith]

25. I don't consider anonymous newspaper leaks to be official statements.

As far as Paterson not wanting to name her, he didn't have to if he didn't want to--and everything I was hearing prior to her bowing out suggests that she was going to be the pick.

[ShortnFiery]

4. Zoe Baird was WRONG too ... Janet Reno represented us WOMEN just fine without the law breaking. eom

[glowing]

5. My husband had some tax mix ups before we met. We have since paid out the

penalties and fees from that time. Just because you mess up on your taxes doesn't always mean your being a crook.. AND most of these people don't do their own taxes. They have accountants, but they are subject to any infractions and any penalties that may be found out by an IRS audit. I will overlook a tax issue as long as it is paid back and acknowledged as oops and not I'm trying to get away with illegal stuff like a Cheney attitude.

[ShortnFiery]

6. No, you have to take responsibility for your own actions. You can pay fines but not hold high ...

political office.

[glowing]

19. Most of these people do not do their own taxes. The tax code is insanely

large and difficult to swim thru. Most of our esteemed Congress Critters who help to write the tax code cannot complete their own tax returns properly. I disagree that you cannot hold an office because of a mistake; especially when you remedy that mistake. Its more of an embarassment than anything else for most people. My husband had one of those reg. tax preparers from H & R Block. He wouldn't know how to fill out a tax form if his life depended on it. AND I've been doing our taxes since we met; even when we were not married. It was only $1500.00 that was owed back. Should that error keep him from serving in any govt job.. even a job working on a road crew for the state? Let's get real.

[ShortnFiery]

21. "Let's get real." As I typed - not sound for HIGH office - responsibility. eom

[glowing]

50. Even in a high office position, I would find a simple error like this ok.

People are human; not robots.

[riderinthestorm]

24. We got audited and lost. Big time. IRS is totally fucked up.

My husband is a horse trainer. We own and operate a training farm which I run. He has always worked at our farm part time. His "full time" job is/was as an govt employee running an equestrian facility for the govt.

We were audited for taking deductions for myriad horse related expenses even including his riding boots.

It came down to the IRS declaring that he was not an equestrian professional and that we were just amateurs declaring equestrian expenses as a lark. Now we were/are involved in the horse industry 24/7. We do nothing else as a business or for private.

Yet. We (and we hired a tax attorney to represent us at the IRS hearings) were declared to be amateurs and thus in violation of the law.

We paid big time for our "transgressions". And although we've never been audited since, we continue to have a tax attorney prepare our taxes since we're "red-flagged." We were on the list of potential witnesses to Congress on IRS fraudulent prosecution years back....

It was a nightmare. And when I see/hear Geithner, I can't possibly condemn him. Our IRS tax code is impossible to navigate - even with the best help - (and we had Chicago Loop attorneys helping us at huge cost but to no avail).

We were told by the IRS agent that 'big" corporations are never audited since they have the litigious staff and accounting staff to fight the charges. So they have to go after the "little guys (corps)" to get the tax revenues.

[ShortnFiery]

26. But that's the point, "the power elite" like Geithner and Kennedy NEVER pay a personal price UNLESS

they run for high office. You toiled and did your best BUT those who have $$$ always slide by.

It's class war. We all know it but are afraid to speak the truth ... we live in a plutocracy and that MUST change if we wish to maintain a viable Middle Class.

[dsc]

30. you and Geither are totally different

Your case, if you wish to be charitable to the IRS was a clearly disputable one. Geithers is red letter law. People whose employers don't pay social security taxes are responsible for both halves of that tax. It isn't at all unclear.

[mucifer]

7. Sorry there are different people doing the appointing so apples and oranges.

You have Clinton, Obama and Patterson. How do you know Patterson would have chosen Geither? Different people different ideas different values.

[sandnsea]

8. They were here illegally

and she didn't pay taxes for them either. I don't know Caroline's issue, but Baird's isn't the same as Geither.

[dsc]

10. at the time it wasn't illegal to employ people who were here illegally

maybe it should have been, but it wasn't.

[ShortnFiery]

28. Well then that makes it perfectly FINE since these Power Elites could barely make ends meet ...

:puke:

[dsc]

29. I guess the words, in my OP, correctly denied the AG were somehow unclear

or ambiguous, it couldn't be that you were to lazy to read them.

[ShortnFiery]

32. No, it's just that

you are wrong. ;) :hi:

[dsc]

33. No you are lying

You implied that I thought Baird should be AG and I stated the exact, precise opposite. I stated, in clear, unambiguious language that she was rightly rejected for AG. You out and out lied.

[Baby Snooks]

55. It's been illegal since 1987...

It's been illegal since 1987 to knowingly employ an illegal immigrant/undocumented worker. They just simply have never enforced the law. Part of the Republican "immigration reform" has always been to criminalize the illegal immigrant while decriminalizing the employer. Which of course does nothing but give the employer the advantage over the employee. "Do as I say or..."

[mucifer]

11. Here's some nice info on Kirsten Gillibrand

some more issues than gun control:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4891968

[dsc]

12. I am unsure who I would have wanted to get the seat

I see plenty of legit reasons for it not to have been Caroline Kennedy but this reason isn't legit in my mind. I am underwhelmed by Gillibrand but am willing to wait and see.

[elleng]

15. Sounds like Caroline WITHDREW

because she expected problems due to taxes and family employees stuff, expecting problems when these became public. We don't know what the NY Governor knew.

We don't know anything about the tax thing, and I certainly won't assume anything. As to family employee stuff, we all should examine the relevant issues; there are lots of quite burdensome requirements on families, many of whom don't know about them. And then there's the immigrant status matters, which are really obnoxious.

[TheWraith]

27. For what it's worth, Paterson came out and said they weren't aware of any disqualifying information.

In other words, according to the governor, "personal reasons" really means "personal reasons."

[dkf]

36. The rumors of taxes, relationship and helper problems

supposedly came from an aide of the Govs. That pissed me off when I read it.

[stray cat]

18. Caroline Kennedy withdrew Tim Geither did not

[ShadowLiberal]

23. Kennedy had to run for reelection if appointed, and proved herself to be a weak candidate

Tim Geither however does not have to run for election anywhere.

[w4rma]

35. Geither should definitely have been rejected. (nt)

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Oh Please. You Look For Any Reason To Be Furious.

[Zomby Woof]

45. You Look For Any Reason To Be A Contrarian POS

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Occam Bandage]

40. Here is the difference, if all you say is true.

Geithner didn't pay his taxes, but survives because everyone in Washington believes that he is singularly capable of doing his job, and that putting any other person in his position would result in damage to the American economy.

CK didn't pay her taxes, and didn't survive because she's a politically incompetent dilettante with an ever-sinking approval rating, and Paterson only needed one good reason to drop her.

[Shiver]

41. The New York State Tax Department has stated that there is

nothing wrong with Kennedy's tax records. Taxes were not the reason she was dropped/bowed out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8132550

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

48. so you are OK with women and men being treated differently?

that is exactly what happened here.

[BeyondGeography]

43. Howard Dean thinks you're being unreasonable

[Vinca]

51. I'm betting Caroline withdrew because of the wringer she's been put through.

It appears she was penalized for a) being a Kennedy and b) for staying out of the limelight for so many years to rear her kids. That's a double standard.

[jazzjunkysue]

52. Sorry, but, I wasn't impressed. She didn't seem ready to me.

I don't know anything about this woman, so, no opinion on her.

The name sounded comforting but she didn't demonstrate the knowledge or verbal gymnastics needed for such an important job. New York is no place for beginners.

[Curtland1015]

53. I gotta agree.

She seems like a very smart, amiable person, but nothing I've seen of her told me she was ready to be a Senator.

[dsc]

54. I should have been clearer in my post

I actually didn't have a problem with Kennedy not being appointed. I think there were plenty of valid reasons not to do so. My major problem is that I think it is a double standard on taxes here. Male appointee skates, female ones not so much.