My Gawd! Kirsten Gillibrand? How dare she believe she can be a senator!!

[wyldwolf]

Sheesh! I mean... with THIS record?

Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Jan 2007)
Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)

Voted YES on revitalizing severely distressed public housing. (Jan 2008)
Voted YES on regulating the subprime mortgage industry. (Nov 2007)

Voted YES on prohibiting job discrimination based on sexual orientation. (Nov 2007)
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)

Empire State Pride Agenda Executve Director Alan Van Cappelle is firmly behind the selection of ostensibly non-liberal Democratic congresswoman Kirsten Gillibrand for the senate.

"After talking to Kirsten Gillibrand, I am very happy to say that New York is poised to have its first U.S. Senator who supports marriage equality for same-sex couples," said Van Capelle in a statement. "She also supports the full repeal of the federal DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) law, repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) and passage of legislation outlawing discrimination against transgender people. While we had a productive discussion about a whole range of LGBT concerns, I was particularly happy to hear where she stands on these issues."

Protect American jobs from going overseas. (Nov 2006)
Block NAFTA Superhighway & North American Union. (Jan 2007)

No lobbyist gifts. (Nov 2006)
Voted YES on requiring lobbyist disclosure of bundled donations. (May 2007)
Voted YES on granting Washington DC an Electoral vote & vote in Congress. (Apr 2007)
Voted YES on protecting whistleblowers from employer recrimination. (Mar 2007)
Supports Shays-Meehan Campaign Finance Reform. (Jul 2001)

Medicare for all; allow drug reimoprtation. (Nov 2006)
Voted YES on giving mental health full equity with physical health. (Mar 2008)
Voted YES on Veto override: Extend SCHIP to cover 6M more kids. (Jan 2008)
Voted YES on adding 2 to 4 million children to SCHIP eligibility. (Oct 2007)
Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Jan 2007)
Better and immediate funding for Medicare & Medicaid. (Dec 2000)
Prescription drug benefit within Medicare. (Jun 2000)
Improve services for people with autism & their families. (Apr 2007)
Establish a national childhood cancer database. (Mar 2007)

Voted YES on restricting no-bid defense contracts. (Mar 2007)
Extend reserve retirement pay parity back to 9/11. (Dec 2007)
Restore habeas corpus for detainees in the War on Terror. (Jun 2007)

Voted YES on overriding presidential veto of Farm Bill. (Jun 2008)
Voted YES on restricting employer interference in union organizing. (Mar 2007)
Voted YES on increasing minimum wage to $7.25. (Jan 2007)

Iraq: exit strategy & redeploy troops. (Nov 2006)
Voted YES on redeploying US troops out of Iraq starting in 90 days. (May 2007)



http://www.ontheissues.org/NY/Kirsten_Gillibrand.htm

Does the take positions YOU don't like on some issues? Yep! But the reason people like her always seem to win is because the electorate senses a disconnect between the right wing who call her a socialist and the left wing who call her a Republican.

[Justitia]

1. ha, ha, ha funny! Welcome to NY's Senator Lieberman in drag. -eom

[wyldwolf]

3. ha ha. I didn't make the contents of my post up. Justitia, try again with a little more substance

[Justitia]

9. She co-sponsored a bill for the f'in border fence and land stealing in MY state.

Fuck her and her fence.

[sharp_stick]

15. I guess we all have our

litmus tests for people in Government.

[stillcool]

43. Texas?

[Justitia]

52. Yup - she's the cosponsor of a bill to steal our land and build that goddamn border fence.

How does NY end up w/such an anti-immigrant, pro MinuteMan senator?

[stillcool]

60. Same way Texas does..

[Justitia]

61. So NY statewide politics mirror TX? Well then, good luck with that suckers!

hahahahahaha

[stillcool]

64. I don't think any state..

mirrors what comes out of Texas, thank God. But New Yorkers have problems with illegal immigration, so perhaps they expect their representatives to act on their concerns.

[Justitia]

66. NY's new senator is just as ANTI-IMMIGRANT, PRO-NRA & PRO Border Fence as Cornyn - no better.

Maybe the NY senator will quit fucking around with the landowners in MY state.

[stillcool]

73. Maybe Cornyn will quit..

fucking around with blocking the Attorney General's confirmation. Do you have a zip code I could use to email him about that?

[Justitia]

76. Sure! I just hounded his TX offices yesterday about that - use 77005. His office folks are nice.

They didn't even try to defend the torture stuff. Just be polite and they will absolutely listen.

I'd recommend a call.

[stillcool]

88. Thanks...

I did both with Spector, but for some reason I'm intimidated to contact Cornyn.

[Justitia]

92. Don't be, his TX office staff are all actually pretty nice & thoughtful.

They know I'm a Dem, but I had lengthy conversations with them about how I felt Cornyn was hurting our state and what he was doing to TX in terms of history and they took that very seriously.

They flat out told me that they had "no talking points" for his torture defense and they were coordinating objections w/his DC office.

These folks are just as concerned with how TX is perceived as I was. But then again, they are IN Texas, not DC.

[mtnsnake]

91. Worry about your own state. Gillibrand has made a Republican area of NY less Republican

because of her dedication and her hard work.

[Justitia]

95. I AM - she has been directly opposing landowners and the Univ of TX in MY STATE w/her g'damn fence.

She is co-sponsor of a bill to STEAL THEIR LAND and break up the Univ of TX campus for that fucking fence.

[Still Sensible]

104. While the border fence is a bad idea IMO, I don't believe

that if someone is for it they are anti-immigrant. They could be, like me, interested in securing the borders.

On the other hand, those that are preoccupied with denying working undocumented people already here from having a path to citizenship... I believe that is anti-immigrant. Those that would split up families to cleanse the population of people who came here illegally... I believe that is anti-immigrant. And there are plenty of circumstances that are anti-immigrant, including the draconian legislation in my own backwards state that criminalizes just about any interaction with undocument aliens.

I absolutely detest people like Lou Dobbs that have made this their core issue, but the part about securing the borders is reasonable.

[HeraldSquare212]

2. No kidding. As a NYer I'm glad she was chosen.

And, by the way - if Kennedy had been picked, we wouldn't even have a voting record to argue about.

[Captain Hilts]

5. Not having a voting record can work in your favor...nt

[mtnsnake]

93. Ditto. n/t

[dsc]

4. then why didn't she cosponser the bills that would end DADT

and permit gay couples to have equal treatment for health insurance and immigration purposes? Since she did cosponser ENDA it isn't that she doesn't cosponser bills.

[ronnykmarshall]

6. She's Hilter's lap dog I tells ya!!

[FLAprogressive]

7. wylddlc loves her because she's corporate. Nice that you cherrypick votes from her one term.

[wyldwolf]

11. FLAnutgressive is in serious poutrage

he doesn't realize her SECOND term just started. Bwahahahahaha

[FLAprogressive]

17. She's a 1.01 term congressman. lol

She's 1/100 of the way through her second term. so for all intents and purposes she's a one term congresswoman.

[wyldwolf]

22. um, yeah, that's what I said, and which is why I "cherrypicked" from her first term. lol

[w4rma]

8. When the "Chips are Down"....Gillibrand is far from progressive

Gillibrand is ranked 216 out of 256 (with a rating of 52) for these types of important votes....actually WORSE than noted odious right wingers Charlie Melancon, Jim Marshall, John Barrow, and Mike McIntyre. New Yorkers: Do you want someone who regularly sells out to the right on close votes?
http://progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?search=selectScore&chamber=House&scoreSort=lifetime_close
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8132978#8133015

[ClarkUSA]

12. I predict she'll pull a Mitt Romney within the week and become a policy clone of Chuck Schumer.

She's a rank political opportunist who is probably on her knees in front of Gov. Patterson right now (as I type she's grinning
like a lottery winner with that idiot Gov. Patterson beside her).

[FLAprogressive]

14. And people are okay with this.

What this should show anyone is that she is an opportunist with no integrity, just like Willard.

[ClarkUSA]

19. She's already pulled a Mitt Romney on gay marriage in the past 24 hours.

I'm sure the rest will soon follow. And yes, the DLC idiots on our side will cheer her on.

[FLAprogressive]

31. Of course.....and her daddy's a rich lobbyist

But it's ok when someone on "our side" does it.

She's the female Willard Romney.....Kirsten Willibrand if you will.

[ClarkUSA]

33. LOL! She just pulled a Mitt Romney on gun control at her press conference.

:rofl: Just call her Mitt Gillibrand.

[FLAprogressive]

41. LOL. I like it. I'm actually against gun control so this gives me more reason to dislike her

She'll change her positions like Willard does.....

[ClarkUSA]

65. Political whores are so predictable, Republican or Democrat.

She's Mitt Romney as a short chubby bleached blonde.

[FLAprogressive]

67. but it's ok if they have a "D" after their names

hypocrites

[ClarkUSA]

84. It's instructive to note who the non-progressives and DLC shills are for sure.

:puke:

[CreekDog]

102. Okay, FL I need you to keep calling her "Mitt" (as in Romney)

and Clark, I need you to call her "Willard". (as in Romney)

cuz if you both call her Willard, well I just, I ah...:eyes:

and you both make a good point about "rich" "daddy" "lobbyist"

having you both use those terms has really helped me understand.

[BzaDem]

42. An opportunist with no integrity? Let me get this straight

You think that in a Republican district, it is better to run progressive liberals that will certainly lose each and every time vs. with a candidate with slightly less liberal positions, who will win? And then you complain if she takes more liberal positions once she is accountable to a more-liberal statewide constituency?

Luckily this advice gets summarily ignored time and time again by the DCCC when they recruit candidates.

[FLAprogressive]

47. Look at John Hall & Carol Shea-Porter.....two progressives in republican districts

Who both got reelected by big margins.

It's a DCCC lie that progressives can't get elected in anything but "liberal" districts. Look at Tom Perriello and Eric Massa.

[BzaDem]

55. Regardless, there are certain districts in which progressives won't get elected.

And I am happy the DCCC recruits candidates with this in mind. There are of course always going to be exceptions whenever there are 435 congressional districts, but the principle stands. The DCCC's open-tent recruitment efforts are one reason we aren't going for our 14th year as a minority party in Congress.

[FLAprogressive]

59. The DCCC doesn't give money to progressives in districts where they could get elected

[MessiahRp]

79. Progressives don't get elected in Republican districts only because they aren't as good at getting

their ideas out there. Presenting alternatives to people is good for democracy. Presenting the same candidate as the Republican who only really differs because of the letter next to their name does not present any real differing views and doesn't open up the minds of voters to alternate options even existing.

The RW has had the media in their pocket for a long time so it might take more work and time to convey progressive ideas to people but if you can show them how they are better for them (and since a vast majority of the time progressive ideas would be far better for MOST people than any DLC/Centrist or Republican idea would) you can bring them to understand that they have been voting against their own ideals/values/well-being.

The DCCC/DSCC approach has been one of complete laziness and overt willingness to maintain the status quo. DLCers and Republicans that run with a D next to their name are slaves to corporate donors and are easier to control. They will never challenge how Washington works and slimebags like Schumer and Emanuel before he became WH COS, could keep the lobbyist dollars flowing into their corporate sect of the party.

Rp

[FLAprogressive]

94. Exactly. The DLC/DCCC dingbats don't want to hear it though as they

continue to praise the DCCC for electing Republican-lites.....

[FLAprogressive]

13. Shh! You only count the IMPORTANT votes.

"But she votes with the Democratic majority 93% of the time!" .... to congratulate college sports teams and proclaim November xx-xx National _____ Week!

[wyldwolf]

18. The "important votes" by "progressivepunch?" lol

[ClarkUSA]

10. She's a DLC political opportunist who is pro-Bush tax cuts and against gun control.

No doubt she'll become a policy clone of Chuck Schumer soon enough but leopards do not change their spots, especially with
her big business background and her lobbyist daddy.

[ShortnFiery]

16. I don't believe it for a moment. The fact that you're for her also puts up one BIG red flag

for me. DLC = puppet of Schumer and Clinton.

[wyldwolf]

20. Yep, I hacked that website and made it all up! Bwahahahahaha

[ronnykmarshall]

26. You're so good at that.

I've always admired your talents of hacking liberal websites and changing congressional voting records.

:silly:

[wyldwolf]

28. I learned it from a little wrinkled old dude in the swamps of Dagobah

[dionysus]

57. how's that chewbacca suit fitting nowadays old chum?

:rofl:

[wyldwolf]

100. better than your Princess Lea outfit is fitting you.

[ShortnFiery]

37. You're gonna LOVE her "civil union" vice "marriage" views.

:(

[wyldwolf]

39. sure, here's a statement from Empire State Pride Agenda Executve Director Alan Van Cappelle

Empire State Pride Agenda Executve Director Alan Van Cappelle is firmly behind the selection of ostensibly non-liberal Democratic congresswoman Kirsten Gillibrand for the senate.

"After talking to Kirsten Gillibrand, I am very happy to say that New York is poised to have its first U.S. Senator who supports marriage equality for same-sex couples," said Van Capelle in a statement. "She also supports the full repeal of the federal DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) law, repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell (DADT) and passage of legislation outlawing discrimination against transgender people. While we had a productive discussion about a whole range of LGBT concerns, I was particularly happy to hear where she stands on these issues."

[ShortnFiery]

44. There's the rub "marriage equality" but she will NOT EVER vote for "marriage" as a Blue Dog

You can bank on "civil unions" but NOT "marriage."

You know the Blue Dogs/New Way ... "ya all are OK but NOT as precious as one man and one woman." BUT BUT equal ... right? :evilgrin:

[wyldwolf]

46. Oh, I forget, you just "know" these things. Tarot cards or crystal ball? LOL!

[ronnykmarshall]

56. Call me right now, darlin.

[wyldwolf]

63. lol

[dsc]

96. No her record and her own website

Her very own website states, in clear, unambiguous language that she opposes gay marriage and favors civil unions. It isn't hidden or burried. As to the rest, while in Congress she had the opportunity, and declined to, cosponser bills ending DADT, and treating gays in civil unions the same as married straights for health insurance and immigration purposes.

[ShortnFiery]

34. No, I know what you promote (big business DLC) and I am seriously concerned.

[wyldwolf]

36. no, you just said you don't believe what's on that website. lol! lol!

[ShortnFiery]

40. You truly get off on that. I don't believe the way this information is compiled and I think that ..

she will be "a tool" from now on of both Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton in an attempt to pull the party even more to the BAT SHIT CRAZY CORPORATE RIGHT.

However, you focus on one item to get your personal insults in ... it's becoming so passe and predictable. :eyes:

[FLAprogressive]

45. if wylddlc sings the praises of someone it's generally advisable to steer clear.

[wyldwolf]

48. FLAnutgressive - you're also in denial

[FLAprogressive]

50. lol ok -- how's NAFTA working out?

[wyldwolf]

54. what does the new Senator from NY have to do with NAFTA?

but to answer your question, not bad at all.

[wyldwolf]

49. you can't believe someone would actually post her voting record on the issues? lol!

[FLAprogressive]

58. a thin voting record which includes FISA telecom immunity and an anti-immigrant stance

[wyldwolf]

62. are you posting under two different names?

[FLAprogressive]

68. Nope. Are you?

[wyldwolf]

75. you must be, because you answered for someone else with a barely relevant reply

[FLAprogressive]

80. Well I'm pretty sure the mods could debunk that with an IP check.

[wyldwolf]

83. true, but that still wouldn't explain why you answered for someone else with a barely relevant reply

[FLAprogressive]

85. Because I agree with them, possibly?????

[wyldwolf]

90. you reply was barely relevant. You didn't agree with her. You essentially changed the subject

[CreekDog]

103. I find odd that you both use some form of Mitt Romney as an epithet to call Gillibrand

It's weird. I could see one person doing it, but two at the same time?

Just odd, although at least one of you consistently uses "Mitt" and the other always uses "Willard".

[CreekDog]

70. you don't believe the voting record

but you expect us to believe your rantings?

[FLAprogressive]

72. she ranks in the bottom half of Dems on IMPORTANT votes.

52% rating from ProgressivePunch on important votes.

[CreekDog]

74. she was voting in a Republican district, what do you expect?

Paterson didn't have to appoint her, but she is as liberal as possible considering the district.

[wyldwolf]

77. According to (snicker... bwhahahaha) "progressivepunch!"

[FLAprogressive]

78. well seeing as you're anti progressive and pro corporate I'm not surprised you'd discount that

[wyldwolf]

81. well, seeing how it's pretty meaningless...

[FLAprogressive]

82. so "OnTheIssues" is better than ProgressivePunch how?

[wyldwolf]

87. it doesn't have an agenda... "progressive" punch... says it all.

[SIMPLYB1980]

21. Oh no you didn't. Don't you know that all Democrats from NY are DINOS!

And EVIEL DLC'ers!!111!!!

[RoccoR5955]

24. Yeah, right... Even Maurice Hinchey! n/t

[WI_DEM]

23. I think she'll be fine.

[ronnykmarshall]

29. FREEPER !!!

DLC LAP DOG!!!!

CORPORATIST SLIME!!

KITTEN AND PUPPY KICKER!!!!

:sarcasm:

[onehandle]

25. You're wasting your keystrokes. Obama wouldn't pass DU's "standards," either.

Anyone to the right of Dennis Kucinich is automatically suspect here.

I don't like her NRA approval, but she seems like she would do well statewide.

[wyldwolf]

27. Let's compare her votes to those of Obama's and... HOWARD DEAN's policy positions!

[onehandle]

35. Y'know, Lieberman was Obama's mentor. And Howard Dean was endorsed 8 times by the NRA.

Horrors!

[wyldwolf]

38. the funny thing is, people are ignoring these points, I guess hoping they'll go away

[CreekDog]

71. there are just a handful here

multiple posts make them seem ubiquitous.

:hi:

[berni_mccoy]

30. I'm glad you posted this because she's a terrible speaker.

[ShortnFiery]

32. Really playing up the "feminine angle" to a nauseating extent.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

Nothing wrong in touching on it but with the DWELLING and "little girl voice" and BORING prose ... :(

"Terrorism Issues" is her forté?!? Translation: Blue dog warmongerer.

[Tarc]

51. Sounds like a fine candidate

I think a good portion of the DU needs to realize that they aren't as important as they think they are, nor is their opinion terribly mature or wise. This "my way or the highway!" screaming about candidates who do not 100% agree with them down to every last policy position is rather FReeperesque.


Extremism in EITHER direction, left or right, is never a good thing.

[stillcool]

53. I wonder who the more reactionary..

DU'ers have as their Senators and Representatives. Funny how the outrage, and 'dissent', is so lock-step and unoriginal. Critical thinking, and information prior to condemnation, be gone..

[gmudem]

69. Not the best choice.

Frankly somebody like Jerrold Nadler or Nydia Velazquez would have been a better choice. Gillibrand is a right-leaning Democrat that is from a right-leaning district. But then again, John Hall is from a right-leaning district but he certainly isn't right-leaning himself.

I'm glad Paterson avoided choosing Kennedy, which would have been highly disgraceful, but this pick is only mildly better.

[Shiver]

106. I recall Velazquez saying she didn't want the seat

Don't know about Nadler.

[mtnsnake]

86. If it wasn't for Gillibrand, that Right Wing nutjob Sandy Treadwell would be ruling a part of NY

that we can't afford to lose. What a bunch of far-fetched responses you're getting on this thread, but that's par for the course when they don't know WTF they're talking about. What a bunch of whiners.

K&R, btw!

[FLAprogressive]

89. So now her district will become Repub again.....shoulda kept her in the district

[mtnsnake]

97. Yes, that makes tons of sense. You must use logic all the time (snicker)

[keepCAblue]

98. HRC report conflicts with her sudden reversal on SSM...

From Towleroad:

According to HRC, that's not how she's voted in the past though. As noted earlier, via PolitickerNY:

"According to the Human Rights Campaign, she voted against the repealing of 'Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell' legislation, opposed legislation that would grant equal tax treatment for employer-provided health coverage for domestic partners, opposed legislation to grant same-sex partners of U.S. citizens and permanent residents the same immigration benefits of married couples and opposed legislation to permit state Medicaid programs to cover low-income, HIV-positive Americans before they develop AIDS. That said, Gillibrand is not an ideologue. The positions she took were arguably necessary as a means of getting elected in a conservative-voting district. And there is a notion among political observers that if she represented the entire state, those positions would soften to better reflect New York’s more liberal complexion."

So it sounds to me like she is just another flip-flopping political player -- voting whichever way she's told or is necessary to pander to the electorate.

[FLAprogressive]

99. "So it sounds to me like she is just another flip-flopping political player" you got it

just like any other DLCer. Triangulation all the way!

[SIMPLYB1980]

101. As a surveyor I understand that it takes Triangulation,

to find or hit a target. Triangulation is not a bad thing if you want to get stuff done.

Edited to add the definition.

Triangulation (n) - A method of determining the relative positions of points in space by measuring the distances, and sometimes angles, between those points and other reference points whose positions are known. Triangulation often involves the use of trigonometry. It is commonly used in the navigation of aircraft and boats, and is the method used in the Global Positioning System , in which the reference points are satellites.

[Metric System]

105. Didn't President Obama use to be more progressive on this issue? They're all politicians and this is

what they do.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

107. is anyone arguing that she isn't qualified? i think the argument is more than she isn't

a real liberal..partly because she belongs to the blue dog dems