What Is the Objective in Afghanistan?

[tekisui]

This Spring/Summer the US will be putting another 20,000-30,000 troops into Afghanistan. This escalation comes after 8 years of losing or, at best, a stale mate. More of Afghanistan is falling under Taliban control. Their influence has spread into Pakistan. Since last Summer we have carried out over 30 strikes in Pakistan, and one ground incursion. The escalation and spreading of this war is troubling.

The strikes in Pakistan on Friday reportedly killed three children. Most here have supported that action. If the drone strike as policy continues and we bomb another wedding party or funeral like we did last year, I should hope that the progressives here and elsewhere will condemn them.

It is an ineffective, counter productive way of 'getting terrorists'. For each one killed, we offer a recruitment position for dozens, perhaps hundreds. We contribute to radicalization and instability. We can't be lobbing bombs into sovereign countries and not expect negative consequences.

The thing no one has been able to tell me is what the 'end game' is. What does 'success' mean in Afghanistan? How will we know when we have 'won'? When will we get to bring the troops home?

When these questions were asked of Iraq, a resounding response was that we need to get out now, as there is no clearly defined objective. But, Afghanistan is deemed 'the right war' by Democrats, and Obama. For that reason, too many look past the lack of an objective. How will we know we have killed the last terrorist?

[Aviation Pro]

1. The Two Shoes/Shitstain objective was a pipeline.....

....the chimera was Osama bin Laden.

[tekisui]

3. Is that why we are escalating, now?

[Aviation Pro]

4. I don't think so.....

...I think we're escalating to bring some level of stability to the country and ultimately to capture or kill OBL.

[rfranklin]

2. The objective is to secure the pipelines....

terrorism is just a by-product.

[leftstreet]

16. Don't forget: "The opium trade is far and away the largest in the world"

Obama's own words:

"The American people and the international community must understand that the situation is perilous and progress will take time. Violence is up dramatically in Afghanistan. A deadly insurgency has taken deep root. The opium trade is far and away the largest in the world."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/22/AR2009012202550.html

No one likes to talk about it though.

[unhappycamper]

5. I'm guessing it's to keep the suppliers of military hardware in bidness.

We're getting out of Iraq and it's hard to justify a one trillion dollar military budget with no wars (or occupations) going on.

[avaistheone1]

12. I agree with both of you. This is really about securing the pipelines & keeping the military

industrial complex flush with cash.

[rug]

6. To demonstrate exactly what a dumb war is.

[DCBob]

7. Capture/kill AQ leadership and shut down the AQ terror training camps...

and support the Afghan government and ensure the Taliban do not reconstitute.

[tekisui]

8. The last one list is the ambigous one that could keep us there for decades.

[NYC_SKP]

9. What would you do, pull out entirely?

I'm not taking a position, there's too much about it that I don't understand to do so.

But it's a fair question, what would you recommend we do from here in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

:shrug:

[tekisui]

14. I would pull out.

Prevent terrorism through good intelligence and good police work here.

[JeffreyWilliamson]

17. That won't solve the problem in the end.

The reason Afghanistan is a potential breeding ground for terrorists is because they live in poverty, have no real educational system, and are very open to a violent fundamentalist religious mindset, fed to them by whatever leadership they can find that will give them hope or an enemy to blame it all on. The Taliban filled that vacuum, and perpetuated the situation.

We could go on forever being vigilant against terrorists, or we could neuter the problem by raising the quality of life and education level of areas that breed terrorists. Only freeing them from the grip of this religious extremism and fear of outsiders will stop their hatred and willingness to attack.

If we pull out, the Taliban, already on the outskirts of Kabul, will take over again. The extremism will grip the entire country. The Opium trade will fuel their hate industry, and the villages and tribal areas will become terrorist factories.

This is something we have to realize in our foreign policy. We have got to do more to assist in raising the educational level and quality of life of people in these nations, instead of just relying on military force to blow up stuff and hope we kill all the bad ones.

BUT, and it's a big but, if we just pull out of Afghanistan, we will be making a tragic mistake by allowing the Taliban to take over again. There is an argument to be made for military action in concert with education and raising the quality of life for other peoples. It will be a very, very dangerous situation if the Taliban takes over again. No one will ever be able to be vigilant enough to keep some attack from eventually getting through.

And it absolutely cannot be overstated--the Taliban are completely brutal to their own people. At some point we have to stand up for human rights.

[avaistheone1]

10. Yes. It will be war without end, but it will make the military contractors very happy.

[DCBob]

13. We will not stay there for decades. We will do the best we can within a "reasonable" amount of time.

then turn it over to the Afghanis. Of course, there will be no guarantees on any of it.

[JeffreyWilliamson]

11. The end game is to rout the resurgent Taliban and stabilize the country...

The war in Iraq was based on lies and Bush family revenge and Cheney oil agendas.

We went to Afghanistan because their government actually did aid the terrorists that attacked us. They were also brutal human rights violators.

We went in quickly and easily over there and the Taliban was crushed. Then, thanks to the Iraq debacle, we took our eye off the ball and the Taliban was able to come back. They have been taking over villages, installing their own people into local governments, wiping out local police forces, banning music again, throwing acid in girls' faces, burning down schools, enforcing dress codes, random killing, etc. They are working their way towards Kabul. Pretty soon, any al-Qaeda leadership left, (including all their remaining Number 2's), will have free run of the place. There won't be any need to hide out in Pakistan anymore. The opium trade has gone through the roof as well.

As bad as war is, it actually was the right decision, after September 11th, to go to Afghanistan. It was also a problem we created ourselves during the Cold War. Regardless, it had to be dealt with.

Thanks to our wonderful previous pResident, Obama will now have to clean up the mess. If he doesn't, the country will be right back where it was on September 10th, 2001. And it will be highly likely that more planes will fly into our buildings, (or something similar), thanks to the support of a government made up of what is essentially terrorists.

War is never the prettiest option, but sometimes it is actually the most humane thing to do. Sometimes we are justified in sticking up for humanity, and what is right, just like World War II. While Afghanistan isn't World War II, it is, and was, the right place to go.

That doesn't mean the whole thing isn't complicated. When you get right down to it, all Afghanistan and September 11th really ever was, was a case of blowback courtesy of Reagan.

[bigtree]

15. Gates is talking about a war on narco-terrorism

Look for that argument to come on top of the others.

Baltimore Sun: Obama administration working out Afghanistan strategy - Key elements are more troops, cutting back drug production
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.afghan24jan24,0,3308124,print.story

[boomerbust]

18. Why did Bush

Call off the dogs at Tora Bora? Getting a real answer to that question might go a long way in forging a new way forward in Afghanistan.