Josh DuBois evidently was the one who suggest both McClurkin and Warren

[dsc]

and now he is in charge of faith based initiatives.

http://www.queerty.com/tag/josh-dubois/

What it seems like to me is this: Obama’s religous outreach is not witchhunting or targeting gays in any way. But it also is not looking at us as important religious partners. Newsweek columnist Sally Quinn says that DuBois was the person who first floated Rick Warren’s name as a possible inaugural speaker; DuBois, who was in charge of faith-based outreach for the Obama campaign, also put together the program that featured Donnie McClurkin, an “ex-gay” gospel singer who has said that “homosexuality is a curse.”

I have a big problem with the existance of the office in the first place but this makes it worse. I would be appalled if a Republican appointed him and am not happy Obama did. Here is a link to his faith's beliefs.

http://www.upcag.net/beliefs.html

Of Marriage and Family
We believe in the sanctity of marriage and the sanctity of life. We believe that marriage is a sacrament only to be entered into between a man and a woman. We believe human life to be precious, beginning at conception. (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:4-6; Jeremiah 1:5).

Are we allowed to get mad yet?

[Maven]

1. Not good.

:grr:

[LostinVA]

2. That was posted in my GLBT thread yesterday -- charming, isn't it?

Now, now DSC -- why so thin-skinned and upset? It's nice and warm under the bus by the exhaust.

IT'S ONLY A FOUR TO EIGHT YEAR APPOINTMENT!!!!!

[dsc]

3. hadn't seen the thread

glad it has been posted there too. Faith based is personal for me in that I am sober today only due to a rehab center. Would a faith based one had accepted me as I was?

[LostinVA]

4. That would have accepted you into the program, but only if you would "change"

[dsc]

5. and I might well have promised to I was that desperate

luckily I was insured and went to a decent rehab.

[LostinVA]

6. This issue is very, very personal to me (Ex Gay)

Haruka's parents sent her to an Ex Gay psychiatrist when she was a teenager. If not for the support of a teacher and a friend's mother, she almost absolutely would have killed herself, the experience was so horrible.

[dsc]

7. wow

I investigated going when I was in college but my parent's insurance wouldn't pay, so I couldn't go. I am glad for Haruka's sake she had adults willing to fight.

[wiley]

8. This is NOT a good thing

[AllentownJake]

9. My assesment is Obama wants status quo

He'll do things to advance the rights of Gay Americans and won't set them back like a Republican but he's not looking to move things quickly.

The good news for the Gay Community either was JFK or LBJ on civil rights in the 60s when they took office.

I stand with you, the fight won't be easy but we are going to have to fight with a mediocre ally on this issue.

[starroute]

10. Are those three Bible verses *all* they're hinging this stuff on?

I just checked, and Jeremiah 1:4-5 is "The word of the Lord came to me: 'Before I formed you in the womb I knew you for my own; before you were born I consecrated you, I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

That's it? The mythological notion that an unborn child might already have a preordained destiny is the basis on which they rant against abortion? Because their God might be so deluded and hapless as to appoint some little ball of cells a prophet-in-the-making without taking into account that the mother of said ball might abort it, or spontaneously miscarry, or catch German measles and give birth to a deaf and blind child without the capacity for serving as a prophet? That's some pretty weird theology right there.

The other two verses are equally bizarre. The one from Genesis immediately follows the verse about Eve being created from Adam's rib and states, "That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife and the two become one flesh." Is this *really* why they're against gay marriage? Because they literally believe in this just-so story which some Paleolithic tale-spinner invented to explain why (in certain cultures but by no means all) men leave their parents' home when they marry? Please, tell me they're not that crazy.

And add to that the third verse, from Matthew, in which that same "one flesh" line is used by Jesus to argue against the possibility of divorce -- and then to suggest that this situation is so intolerable that any men who are capable of it are far better off renouncing marriage altogether "for the sake of the kingdom of Heaven."

Well, I can understand the Catholic church using that as a reason to oppose divorce and maybe even to insist on clerical celibacy -- but to oppose gay marriage? I mean, if anything it seems to be saying that marriage is an inferior arrangement for those who can't handle chastity. So how can you also use it to argue that marriage is such a pure and sacred institution that it would be defiled by letting gays take part in it?

This stuff makes my head hurt. Is this really and truly *all* they're going on? Or is there some crucial missing piece I'm simply not getting?

[Thrill]

11. Where is the proof that he suggested them?

[dsc]

15. he is on the record as having suggested Warren

as to McClurkin I will try to find it.

[KittyWampus]

17. delete. I promised myself I wouldn't bother

[dsc]

19. I don't know what your post was

but he is in fact on record as to suggesting Warren. He gave an interview to that affect so I sure hope it wasn't an accusation that I was lying.

[autorank]

12. The Founding Fathers would Oppose Religious Outreach

Thomas Jefferson

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find
in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They
are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men,
women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to
support roguery and error all over the earth."

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. Since faith-based initiatives are flatly unconstitutional everyone involved can go fuck themselves

Zero tolerance of warrant-less searches, torture and theocratic gibberish.

[Chulanowa]

14. Well, here's something I hope for....

Let's hope that "faith based initiatives" has to pray for its funding, 'cause I don't want MY dollars going towards that shit. if I wanted to donate to a church, I would do so (and I HAVE done so) and it would be a church who's congregation I was comfortable with and who's theology didn't make me want to take a tack hammer to someone's teeth.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. DuBois is not just a tounge speaking bigot

he is also a 26 year old young man being given sway over billions of taxpayer dollars. He's got to be kept under close scrutiny, for his spending and his tendency to hate minorities according to his delusional readings of ancient books. He is not just a man who holds his prejudices close to his heart, he is also a scandal waiting to happen. Let us all remember that DuBois has painted himself as superior to others, and has taken the role of judge, tossing the stones that the Christ himself refused to throw. Any slight error from such a man can not be tolerated, and a hubristic man like DuBois will committ crimes and errors and never even notice, for he thinks he is above all law, above even the role of the son of man.
A contemptable anti-science, anti-woman, anti-gay cultist.

[KittyWampus]

18. delete. I promised myself I wouldn't bother

[tbyg52]

21. Ya get religion into government, yer gonna get some people like this.

End of story.

[Bluenorthwest]

24. Yep. Because I leave the Pentacostals alone

if they stay out of politics with their blather and hate. I left those churches years and years ago, I know them well, and will debate the merits of their theology or politics anytime, with anyone. Bring me DuBois.
I consider Dubois a blasphmeous apostate, by the way. My objections to him in this venue are political, but if we were meeting as men, I'd have other issues to discuss with him, with his own scripture as the basis of the conversation.
I was raised to know the difference between men who use the divine as a tool for their own agendas and people who allow themselves to be used by the divine for the good of others. Any contempt you hear from me about religionists is righteous, not generalized, and based not on my standards, but on the standards they pretend they have. I will not be calling wolves by the name of angels, not for anyone, and certainly not to please the wolves.
I stand where I stand with great thought and contemplation. Hope all who defend hate in the name of a God who IS love will consider doing the same.
Peace to you too.

[Starry Messenger]

20. Whoa, anti-equality and anti-abortion?

Like Maven said up in #1, not good. I want "faith-based" out of my government. Period.

[QC]

22. HE'S JUST GOING TO SING ONE SONG!1!!!!11

[AtomicKitten]

23. Faith-based programs aren't new for Democrats; both Clintons used and advocated for them.

Bill Clinton institutionalized faith-based programs:
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/historyprofiles/tp/clinton.htm

Sen. Clinton Urges Use of Faith-Based Initiatives:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/01/20/sen_clinton_urges_use_of_faith_based_initiatives/

In an effort to try to understand the continued brouhaha over Warren and McClurkin, I am beginning to wonder if heads exploded commensurately over DOMA and DATV. You know, actual policy that actually affected lives as opposed to people getting their knickers in a twist over hurt feelings over Obama's policy of inclusion. Or has a convenient and thorough rationalization dealt with that unpleasant comparative analysis satisfactorily in some minds?

I used to think the LGBT community at DU was a foreign entity compared to my LGBT community here in SF, but it has become apparent there is a particular subset of Clintonites that use this as a cudgel as a means to an end around this place.

edited for spelling

[dsc]

25. believe it or not we can concentrate on more than one thing at one time

but until you have either tried suicide yourself or had to pick up the pieces when someone else did then you can shut the fuck up about McClurkin not being important. Today there is some teen boy or some teen girl being told that they can change and are worthless until they do and that teen boy or teen girl will attempt suicide. The likes of McClurkin cause that directly. Somewhere else some teen boy or teen girl is being kidnapped or forced into a love in action style camp to change their orientation. The likes of McClurkin is directly responsible. Oh and one other thing. My first candidate was Richardson, my second was Edwards. Note that neither one is Clinton. Clinton was where I wound up due to not trusting Obama, a non trust which turned out to be sadly precient. Oh, and I complained about Clinton's faith based non sense too.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Nothing on earth will prevent you (personally) from getting mad

As you've demonstrated on these boards for the past 8 months or so. What you're actually mad about, of course, is another matter altogether.

[dsc]

27. Your total lack of interest in, or care for, gay issues is notable and noted

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Yeesh

If you only knew...

Your objections, as is clear to everybody, have very little to do with LGBT issues.

[dsc]

29. sure

I am sick to death of Obama supporters here who wouldn't piss on a gay person if they were on fire blaming everyone but Obama for his misteps with the gay community. McClurkin was DuBois' fault then but now apparently it must be someoneelse's. Warren is somehow Clinton's fault. When Robinson's prayer was broadcast it was HBO's fault until Obama's team finally owned up to it. The simple fact is that from just about day one of Obama's campaign he has been totally tone deaf toward gays and gay issues. DuBois is just another in a long line of supposed misteps etc.