Did I hear Rick Sanchez correctly? Bad blood between the Obama and Dean camps?

[SKKY]

:wtf:

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Emanuel Went To War Against Dean In 2006 - And Lost

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4971933&mesg_id=4972678

[SKKY]

5. I had no idea. Makes Rahm look a bit silly, huh?

[wyldwolf]

17. LOL! Using one of your own dishonest posts to prove a dishonest post

For anyone who wants to know the truth of the matter...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/why_are_democratic_leaders_fig.html

[camera obscura]

22. Google the author's name (Jay Cost). He is a conservative writer.

[wyldwolf]

45. mmm... so?

:shrug:

What part isn't true? You can read the same account from different sources. I found that particular piece to be fair and, in many respects, fair to both people involved (even complimentary to Dean.)

[camera obscura]

59. Would you cite an article from the National Review to describe the Democratic Partys inner workings?

[wyldwolf]

60. If it was fair and accurate. Here are two others from CNN and Chicago Tribune

http://money.cnn.com/2006/09/17/magazines/fortune/politics.fortune/index.htm

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2006/nov/12/nation/chi-0611120215nov12

[camera obscura]

63. I've read profiles of Rahm before. I thought you had something substantive about the DNC feud.

[wyldwolf]

64. all three sources tell the same story.

:shrug:

You had a problem with the first source, now you claim neither have anything substantive even though all three tell the same thing. You'll believe the made up netroots story I'm sure.

[MannyGoldstein]

66. How Is This Different Than What I Wrote?

Other than the author claims that Dean's 50-State Strategy is not the best way to go, and thus the Dems will not do well in 2006. Clearly the author, and Emanuel, were wrong. I'm pretty sure we won in 2006, and won big (unless you listen to Clinton-proxy Carville, who claimed we lost.)

[wyldwolf]

70. well let's examine what you wrote

Emanuel Went To War Against Dean In 2006 - And Lost

Nope, after their confrontation in Aug. of 2006 in which Emanuel demanded more money for 40 competitive House races, Dean committed the DNC to spend $2.4 million several weeks later. Emanuel got what he wanted.

Other than the author claims that Dean's 50-State Strategy is not the best way to go

The author DOESN'T claim that. He praises it but questions why Dean would siphon money away from close competitive races in an election year. Here's the quote:

The Dean plan, in itself, is a very smart one. Party building is an important activity - and Dean's interest in modernizing state organizations will pay off in the future in a number of ways.... (more)... First, it will create the groundwork for Democrats to pick up the odd seat here and there in "red" America.... (more) ... Second, it should make the party more competitive on the state level... Finally, what Dean is doing essentially amounts to party integration. He is connecting each state party with the national party, and each state party with each other in a professional, election-oriented way. This will enhance Democratic prospects generally - an integrated party is better able to coordinate fundraising, campaign strategy, tactical assistance, etc.

In the long run, this is the kind of party building which the Democrats must effect if they wish to match the Republicans, who are today organizationally superior. So why has Dean's plan so incensed Emanuel?

The reason is that it will not have any net electoral benefit in 2006 - on any level. This year, the way to maximize the number of successful Democratic candidates is to fund the candidates. To the extent that Dean is not doing this, he is not helping the party's campaign efforts. Presumably, Emanuel is angry because this year is the Democrats' best chance to take the House since 1996; Dean, from this perspective, is passing on a historic opportunity.

Clearly the author, and Emanuel, were wrong. I'm pretty sure we won in 2006, and won big

Yes we did - and the record of the 40 targeted races mentioned above carried the day.

[EFerrari]

21. Yes, he did. And I bet he'll never forgive that he was wrong AND lost. n/t

[ChiciB1]

55. Rahm Didn't Mind Taking Credit For The "50 State Strategy" Though!!

I haven't said it since the election, but I have never "cottoned" to Rahm much! While I won't say he's the equivalent of a Democratic DeLay, he does have a way about him!

[wyldwolf]

61. which, of course, he never did.

[Captain Hilts]

2. Dean has a 'plays well with others' problem, at times. Whether or not there...

is bad blood, I don't know. Dean did seem irked about the Kaine press conference with Obama.

[EFerrari]

3. Really? How do you know that?

[Captain Hilts]

52. Working in DC. I think head of the DNC was a great job for him and he did a terrific job.

But, he's not a standard team player.

[karynnj]

18. How did he then get elected so many times as the Governor of VT

I think he had 6 two year terms - the first one when he was elevated to the job when the previous governor died. That would still be 5 elections.

Someone from VT - help????

[Captain Hilts]

50. He inherited the office first. nt

[karynnj]

57. but he then got re-elected five times

in what seems to be a politically active state that would have kicked him out if he couldn't get along with anyone.

[Captain Hilts]

58. Didn't say he wasn't a good or popular governor.

But he wore out folks on a lot of levels.

[BuelahWitch]

42. He plays fine with others; Rahm is the one with the problem

But Rahm's ego is more important than the country, eh?

[Captain Hilts]

51. Can't argue with you there. nt

[onefreespiritedchick]

78. I was about to type the same thing

I think the good of the country is more important then one's ego.

[mmonk]

47. Ha! Who does Rahm play well with?

[Sebastian Doyle]

48. If by "others" you mean the DLC, then yes.

And we love him for it. YEEEEEEAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!

[fadedrose]

4. Well then, Dean qualifies under the "love your enemies" rule

That means he gets a position......

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

13. Don't be surprised - it's worked in the past.

[camera obscura]

23. Unfortunately it seems that only works for rivals to the right.

[kstewart33]

6. Dean is not the answer.

He has absolutely no working relationships in the House or Senate. How can he lead the passage of major reform when no one has ever worked with him, and almost half of them want him to fail?

He's a non starter. Being an MD does not qualify anyone to head up something this huge.

[SKKY]

10. So who will it be now?

Cutler? Sebelius?

[Dinger]

24. Clark?

Wes Clark?

I can dream, can't I?

[SKKY]

26. You think? Could he pull that off?

[Dinger]

28. I Don't Know

I have "wondered aloud" here on DU about this in the past, but I wonder id Obama and Wes have some sort of bad blood as well. I don't really think they do; but it seems that for one reason or another, Wes is not high on Obama's list for much of anything.:hide:

[JaneQPublic]

14. He got health care passed when he was gov of Vermont

Funny how the essential qualification as a cabinet secretary switches between the legislative experience of a congressperson and the executive/administrative experience of a governor depending on the qualifications of the person being promoted/rejected at any given moment.

[kstewart33]

62. Very good point. But he has absolutely no relationships

in the legislative branch. Can you imagine a more challenging piece of legislation to get through Congress than health care reform?

[hologram]

65. Bingo.

[No Elephants]

77. No relationships with any of the Democrats he helped get elected and/or re-elected? Really?

[stevenleser]

68. This is what I have heard as well from some of my contacts...

people getting cabinet appointments from Obama have serious working relationships on the hill. They can get things passed. This is where Dean falls short, unfortunately.

[Skidmore]

72. And that is bad? How? Perhaps the biggest problem is that

the "good ole club" in DC needs to learn to work with someone besides each other. It is not necessarily a plus right now that business as usual carries on.

[Raineyb]

73. Apparently being in bed with the insurarance companies does.

Health care reform is supposed to make the system better for people not the corporations which make their money denying care while paying their CEOs nearly 2 billion dollars.

Regards

[Critters2]

7. Yeah. Thanks to Rahm. nt

[Captain Hilts]

53. Obama is not Emmanuel's puppet. nt

[ClarkUSA]

8. What proof did he have considering he's not a confidante of either camp?

[sohndrsmith]

9. Oh good grief... (not to your post - to the media...) n/t

[Barack_America]

11. There was supposedly a lot of tension about Convention planning issues.

Particularly about moving the acceptance speech to the stadium.

[SKKY]

12. I find it hard to believe that would carry over.

But, hey. You can never tell how sensitive some people can be until they get their feelings hurt.

[Cash_thatswhatiwant]

16. really? what happened?

[Barack_America]

20. I honestly don't know...

There were just reports at the time that the transition of Obama to de facto leader of the Democratic party wasn't going as smoothly as hoped. Whether there was something to those reports or whether it was just more overly hyped campaign BS, I've no clue.

[Occam Bandage]

15. Sanchez is a moron. nt

[EFerrari]

25. Not in this instance. Rahm and the rest of the establishment Democrats

did their best to tank Dean in the run up to 2004 and their best to tank his chairmanship. Sh!t, at one point, Pelosi was backing an anti-choicer for DNC chair over Dean. They hated him for shaking things up even though what he did renewed the party.

[Occam Bandage]

27. So? Seriously,

"Rahm backed someone else for DNC chair four years ago because his unofficial party seniority was threatened" is not "Obama and Dean got the bad blood mojo."

The former is correct. The latter is shit-stirring.

[EFerrari]

32. So your dismissing Sanchez accurately picking up on the tension

is wrong.

[Occam Bandage]

34. And I hold that your eager acceptance of a media-inflated "tension" is wrong.

[EFerrari]

35. What acceptance? Sanchez picked up on something that exists.

I have nothing to do with that.

lol

[Occam Bandage]

37. As fascinating as our yes-it-does-no-it-doesn't conversation is...

[EFerrari]

38. You're playing dodge ball. I'm trying to figure out a problem.

"And we just disagree".

[Occam Bandage]

39. And then tomorrow, you can figure out why unicorns and elves have bad blood. nt

[EFerrari]

43. I can't possibly improve on that.

:rofl:

[Carolina]

46. Plus Dean was the first to use the internet

so extensively and yes, his 50 state strategy proved to be the winning one over all that DLC crap.

Dean is innovative and speaks up while Pelosi and Rahm both suck.

[EFerrari]

54. Agree. But, I guess every party has its power struggles.

:(

[Life Long Dem]

19. And all you hear is "bad blood' between mumbles throughout the show

But did you know they have "bad blood"?

[slinkerwink]

29. this is a leak from Rahm to keep Dean out. Well, fuck RAHM!

We did it before in going against the DLC and getting Dean in as Chair of the DNC. We can do it again!

[Occam Bandage]

30. Keep Dean out of what? He isn't being seriously considered for anything, as far as we know.

And this would be a pretty dumb leak. I'd more bet this is someone shit-stirring.

[slinkerwink]

31. which is Rahm.

[Occam Bandage]

33. Rahm Emanuel is turning into the new Karl Rove for the lefty blogosphere.

Quick! Look behind you! HE MIGHT BE BEHIND YOU!

[AtomicKitten]

36. Sanchez is begging for another tasing. n/t

[Metric System]

40. Wolf Blitzer said the exact same thing on the Situation Room.

[Occam Bandage]

41. Talking points are out. nt

[Stephanie]

44. Chris Matthews just said it too

Claire McCaskill pretended she didn't know what he was talking about.

[Metric System]

49. Really? Interesting. I guess it really is a talking point.

[fadedrose]

56. Did you see her eyelashes eyelids flutter -

I thought her face was going to fly away with the wind caused by the flutter. She was embarrassed..

[Honeycombe8]

67. I'd guess the problem is Rahm Emmanuel, who is the heart of most of Obama's problems thez days. nt

[janx]

69. This crap has been spewed over and over by people who didn't

want the Dems to recreate the party and succeed. Dean has been so good for the Dems. There was some party infighting at first, sure, but those who believe that the infighting continues to the detriment of the Dem party and the country are now buying the propaganda of organizations of people who value party over country.

"News" organizations have reduced themselves to gossip; it's cheaper that way.

[backscatter712]

71. If Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton can kiss and make up,

don't tell me that Obama and Dean or Emanuel and Dean can't do the same.

Really, in Washington, they're all Democrats, and while they'll beat the hell out of each other in the primary season, once the primaries are over, they get along like Sam Sheepdog and Ralph Wolf.

[SIMPLYB1980]

74. That's a great analogy.

:thumbsup:

[Cleita]

75. I keep reading that Rahm Emanuel is the problem in giving Dean a seat

on the Obama administration. If this is true, maybe Obama needs to remind Emanuel, he is not the President and that the President needs to do what is necessary for a nation in crisis. There is no room for egos and paybacks in this new administration.

[No Elephants]

76. Stories about Obama's snubbing Dean have been around for a while. Some say

it's startling that the author of the 50 State Strategy and big wins in 2006 and 2008 did not get any place in the Obama administration. If there is anything at all to it, I wonder if it had anything to do with Dean's Four State Pledge and the 100% penalty on Michigan and Florida that caused so much grief before the Convention?

[democrattotheend]

79. Not between Dean and Obama

My understanding is that Obama has a good relationship with Dean. But the bad blood is between Dean and Rahm Emanuel.