Look. A Stimulus Bill WILL Get Passed.

[Solomon]

And I guarantee you, absolutely guarantee, that nobody, and I mean nobody, NOBODY, is going to like it.

And also let me be the first one to say that everyone, everyone, EVERYONE, will be whining and moaning about one thing or another about it. The right wing will complain, the left wing will complain, the up wing will complain, the down wing will complain, and all the other wings out there.

DU might have to start a separate stimulus forum.

The irony of it is all the wings finally agree on something: Everybody hates the medicine. :beer:

[demo dutch]

1. They better pass the stim bill, the delay in the 30's is what brought on the GREAT depression

[liberal N proud]

2. I honestly think the GoP wants to force another depression

or worse. Total economic collapse

[demo dutch]

8. Everyone will know that it happened because of the GOP - Repeat of the 1930's and

it took WWII to really climb out of the Great Depression

[AlinPA]

3. Not Guiness, that's good medicine. On stimulus, it is a big test for their leader

Limbaugh, but he will get 41 republicans to block it.

[Life Long Dem]

4. I agree.

But that doesn't mean we don't need the stimulus bill or that we don't appreciate Obama's great job he has been doing.

[rwheeler31]

5. Watching the Senate tonight, all the goofy amendments

were defeated. I got the sense something else was going on. Is Nelson of Nebraska switching to the gop?

[firedupdem]

12. He needs to. I can't stand that asshole. ick n/t

[bluestateguy]

6. A 900 billion $ bill is bound to have something that I don't like

Or something that you don't like, or something that someone, anyone will not like.

[Solomon]

9. LOL Well. The fact that everybody knows that

everybody is going to be disappointed , is not going stop the avalanche of whining and moaning, and second guessing thatis going to happen. LOL

[Solomon]

7. They can't afford a meltdown. America would become a very

dangerous place. Everyone has guns in America. If food or water got scarce, it would be a disaster. They will sign a bill.

[ZombieHorde]

10. Du would get boring if we liked everything. nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

11. I don't hate the medicine, I lament the lack of medicine. The bill is barely worth hating.

If it was a fish it would be thrown back.

[Political Heretic]

22. I'm so sick of people who don't have a god damn clue what they are talking about.

Yeah... tripling spending on education....

Record breaking social spending.

$142 billion for a middle-class tax cut
$47 billion to extend unemployment benefits
$16 billion to expand food stamps
$17 billion in one-time payments to low-income Americans
$26 billion to expand access to health care
$87 billion to help states pay for Medicaid
$24 billion to modernized health information technology
$46 billion to fix bridges and roads
$80 billion to improve public education
$19 billion for school construction
$14 billion to make college more affordable



Shut up.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Political Heretic]

26. It's not irrelevant spending to me. Tripling federal education spending isn't irrelevant to anyone

It's not "TALKING POINTS" jackass. It's dollars to people who need it.

Fuck. What the fuck is so complicated about getting that through your fucking thick head.

Ever heard of the Coalition on Human Needs asshole? Not exactly a bunch of "internet slobs"

More like a social justice organization concerned with advancing a progressive social agenda for vulnerable populations...

Breaking down the dollar amounts in the bill isn't something abstract or opinion. It's just there. Go fucking look for yourself.

It's sad when "thinking for yourself" becomes code for not having a goddamn clue what the fuck you are talking about, and ignoring and ridiculing all the sources from which you COULD get informed.

[sampsonblk]

37. Self-hatred? (nt)

[liberalpragmatist]

13. You know, the House bill was actually pretty good

Yes, it was arguably too small - we probably need a stimulus of 1.3-1.6 trillion dollars. And it had too many tax cuts. And not enough funding for transit (though an amendment did add a decent amount of mass transit funding). But overall, it was a very progressive piece of legislation, and its size could have been augmented later on with various appropriations bills, the budget bill and a possible second stimulus down the road.

But I'm worried the Senate's going to throw up a real stinker. And we're going to wind up with a crappy bill that costs a lot but not enough to actually make a meaningful dent in the recession. Then Republicans and Blue Dogs can claim that this shows that spending doesn't work and we need to cut taxes.

[Solomon]

14. I agree. I think the right's goal is to put only enough to

keep things sputtering until they can get back in. It's a risky strategy though.

[Political Heretic]

23. Thank you - finally a more informed perspective.

The house bill was pretty dramatic in some places, and then had some loser stuff in others. But all in all it was a pretty huge monster of a progressive spending bill the likes of which we haven't seen in a generation.

I too worry about the shit the Senate is going to turn out. So far I haven't seen horrible concessions, but it also doesn't have 60 votes yet either...

[Double T]

15. Regardless of what's in IT and who puts it there..........

the damn STIMULUS bill will do nothing to stimulate our defunct economy. Until jobs are brought back to America for American workers our nation will continue its downward spiral. The STIMULUS package is the answer from politicians and economists that have no answers.

[OhioBlue]

16. For every $1 billion in infrastructure

there will be between 30,000 - 40,000 jobs created. That means people that can pay their bills, feed their families and contribute to their local economies. Our infrastructure needs help. This is a good plan.

[Double T]

18. The reality of job creation will be quite different than the numbers touted by the politicos.

This country can not have everything it consumes produced, manufactured and supported from Asia. Root problem isn't even being addressed.

[Solomon]

17. If you say so. Then if it won't help, it certainly won't

hurt to provide a little tilt toward the working class then. As long as it prevents a complete meltdown, I will be satisfied. I don't want to see what America would like, everybody having guns and all, if they let it get to the point where people are murdering each other for food or water.

[Double T]

19. Your future relatives will be saddled with our meltdown............

THEY will curse the day we were born.

[Solomon]

21. That's going to happen anyway. Want do you want us to

do? Go with the meltdown now, fight it out until all the people with no guns are gone? There won't be any future relatives. What's your point?

[Double T]

25. You've made my point. Live for today, let others pay for our selfish irresponsibility tomorrow.

No wonder why we are in this huge economic mess.

[Political Heretic]

27. Not "live" for today; ease huge, serious suffering of desperate families in crisis today

...with a solemn understanding that we may not be helping our outlook for tomorrow.

Dealing with immediate crisis doesn't necessarily mean you're oblivious to the future.

I'm for the spending in this bill because its long past due, and much of it is desperately needed by real families in crisis. Your damn right our country is in economic shambles and its bill is not a magic bullet to fix that. Our future economic situation looks horrible.

The way out isn't to do nothing, and its not to "spend" nothing. The catch 22 is that not spending will make the situation worse fast and spending may make the situation worse slow. But slow is preferable to fast if for no other reason than it does give us time to figure something out.

We could do a lot to fend off some of our gloomy future by coupling a spending injection with a return to fiscal responsibility on wall street - i.e. a well regulated market, with much tighter fixed parameters on profit seeking - especially in speculative type markets; a sensible tax policy that allows us to actually take in enough revenue to balance the federal budget and begin to re-generate budget surplus that we use to start paying down the debt.

Not passing the desperately needed spending in this bill won't save our children. But it will ensure the situation of people in crisis right now doesn't get better.

The place for real anger is at the 750 billion dollar TARP fiasco, which was nothing more than a free handout to wall street with next to no accountability that has so far failed to accomplish any of its goals. Handing money to wall street was never the answer.

[Double T]

28. Root cause of this economic disaster is the outsourcing of American jobs to slave/lower wage nations

Unless we bring our former jobs back to the American workers, all the stimulus in the world is only delaying the inevitable.

[Jennicut]

30. Agreed but we must do both.

[Jennicut]

29. The meltdown and the fact that we have to pay for Bush's mistakes

happens now or in the future. My 3 and 4 year olds will have to pay no matter what, either through debt or loss of jobs/wages. Either way Bush screwed us. I will take the pain now please.

[Ioo]

20. I am sure as soon as Obama bend to the Republicans it will, and he will bend over, All Dems do

I am not sure why we do not tell the fucking republicans to stick their opinions up their asses.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[firedupdem]

32. LOL!!! rush has you all fucked up in the head. n/t

[Starry Messenger]

33. Swine. n/t

[Left Coast2020]

34. Obama is beginning to tell F'ing GOP who's in charge.

As for the "jobs bill"--I mean lets call what it is--a jobs bill. As Hartmann said on his show, its to get the economy functioning to hopefully avoid a collapse. Listen, what we're doing her is playing catch-up. Over the past 8 years the fucking repugs have put "zero" into this economy--except for the f'ing tax breaks for their rich friends. We are so damn behind it ain't funny. There has been no investment in small business, no investment in infrastructure, no investment in education. I could go down the list further. Bottom line is the repugs on wall street, and big banker a-holes got us into this bullshit. Now someone else has to clean up their mess. We have to start somewhere. Once people start working, we can begin to climb out of this rut. And I heard someone mention during the campaign, or just before election that its going to take 2 full terms for Obama to get us on level ground again. Not a year, not 2 years. Two terms! Things could improve in the job market a little, but it will take a generation to be back to a somewhat normal economic situation. And as was stated above, Obama will have to do everything he can to try to bring some jobs back to this country. We have to make things. In other words: put two things together that we can sell to someone. We can't let China run our manufacturing into the ground. When I was there in the fall, I rode a bus to friends house and was shocked to see a Buick plant there. It was depressing to see an American company in China. We have to have some level of manufacturing or we're in serious trouble. We cannot survive as a service oriented society. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Hippo_Tron]

35. No, but how does a free pizza sound?

[Solomon]

36. Shoot. Why give it to him free? I think he should pay for

his pizza.

[SIMPLYB1980]

38. I won't complain. I like the bill.

I think Obama, the Democrats in congress, and even a few Republicans are doing what needs to be done to help our economy.