I disagree with the "We can't compete with countries that pay low wages" argument.

[Skwmom]

Cheap wages often lead to cheap products that don't last and can be hazardous to your health. Qualified blue collar workers are essential to the building of quality safe products that last and won't be harmful to your health.

If we are looking to build cheap shoddy goods, then no we can't compete with other countries. But if we are looking to build quality safe products (which are cheaper in the long run b/c they don't have to be constantly replaced), then yes I think that is a competition we can win.

Plus, if that's the case (that we can't compete with countries that pay low wages), then how are we going to compete with other countries (like India) who can provide white collar services at much cheaper prices b/c their wages are much lower? We might as well just throw in the towel right now b/c there is NO JOB that we could create that couldn't be performed cheaper in another country.

[Captain Hilts]

1. And we should not want to do so. nt

[Thrill]

2. Companies want cheap labor. Thats the bottom line.

Close the loopholes

[rucky]

7. But the case also needs to be made that this is shortsighted,

and just plain a bad business decision to race to the bottom.

[Kittycat]

3. That's where tarrifs are supposed to come in.

[louis-t]

12. Thanks you! Tarrifs are the equalizer.

When I was growing up, something that was imported cost more, if it was high quality. If we were on a level playing field, American products would always win.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

4. There's a much more sound argument available: Transportation costs.

Which are rising exorbitantly, despite the momentary re-lapse in gas prices. By virtually all accounts, the price of oil will rise again, back to at least where they were last summer. If/when that happens, the cost of transporting goods half way around the world will nearly eliminate any profit margins obtained by going through dirt cheap labor.

Then, of course, you have to add on your aforementioned argument, plus the ill-will associated with offshoring, which is damaging to a brand. Once you have all that together, it becomes better business to manufacture here in the U.S. than it does elsewhere in the world.

[Skwmom]

6. When I was at the pump paying high gas prices, I would think

1. It's better for the environment b/c it will spur development of cleaner technology and people will drive less in the meantime and 2. It increases the price of the cheap Chinese products (b/c it's got to cost more to get them here) thus decreasing their advantage.

[Hello_Kitty]

10. Not to mention the impact on the environment of all this transnational shipping

Cheap crap made in China has to be shipped across the ocean, and then transported by rail and truck to your local Walmart. That is yet another externalized cost that the cheap labor barons pass on to society.

[treestar]

14. That shows how much cheaper the labor is

Factoring all the transport, it's still cheaper? Amazing.

Then everyone involved in the transport wants to hang onto their jobs, too.

The balance has to be worked out somehow.

[avaistheone1]

5. Probably the majority of jobs could be performed as well in some other country

for lower wages - even white collar jobs.

I think we have to take a stance and quit the race for the bottom (on wages). I think we do have to protect our jobs via some method, perhaps by tariffs. We can not compete on wages with an adult or a child doing the job in India or in China.

Look what has happened as a result of offshoring- our country has been cleaned out of jobs, no one has any money, and the U.S. economy collapses. Duh!

[The2ndWheel]

8. As long as energy is cheap, then labor will be cheap

Because the cheaper the energy, the less you need actual people, the fewer actual people you need, the less geography matters, and the easier it is to replace this or that mass produced product with an identical product.

[Barack_America]

9. Reducing health care costs will sure as hell help.

But in stating that he does not want Americans working on the cheap, I agree with him.

Creating more jobs that pay workers a non-living wage is not the solution to this mess.

[Every Man A King]

11. There is no argument anymore

our manufacturing base is gone. It was destroyed by cheap foreign goods produced with cheap foreign labor. You are wrong.

[Skwmom]

16. I disagree.

So you think an American parent would rather buy their child several cheap, maybe unsafe toys from China rather than one SAFE (no lead paint, etc), well made toy (that won't break after two hours of being played with) built in America? And I'm sure there are parents in other countries who would rather buy their child a toy made in America rather than a toy made in China.

And it's not only toys that are unsafe junk (try drywall, dental implants, dishware, prescription drugs, etc.).

[mdmc]

28. my sis and b-in-law are good Obama supporting parents

I doubt my niece and nephew have any livable wage toys (other then the handmade in the USA dolls I got them both for Christmas). All they have is cheap crap from Asia.

And these are good democrats.

Actually, they also have a rocking horse that is handmade in Canada. So three toys are first world, thousands of toys are third world.

These are people that care about the working man. And they don't have much first world toys.

[Every Man A King]

29. I don't understand your point at all

you are giving an opinion on something that has already happened. People love cheap Chinese products made with trivial labor costs. The USA has virtually no manufacturing base left. Its fact not opinion. Where do you shop? Do you actually read the "Made in ______" labels for stuff you buy?

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_39/b4002073.htm

[global1]

13. I Was With Two Repugs Last Night That Were Saying Unions Were The Reason......

companies are shipping jobs overseas.

[dbonds]

15. What your logic doesn't take into account is...

We don't compete against them. The business exec's completely move the businesses to the cheap labor. It isn't that we can't make better products, it is that we are not given the chance anymore. Greed of the Power Brokers wins out.

[Skwmom]

18. If we had a government that would inject the necessary capital and

provide tax breaks to companies who created manufacturing jobs in the U.S., then we could compete.

Instead of giving billions (probably trillions when it's all said and done) to the crooks in the financial industry, why don't we use those funds to create manufacturing jobs at home? Oh I forgot, other countries would get upset that we aren't sending all of our jobs overseas to them.

[dbonds]

19. Its not tax breaks that are needed, it is tax penalties on those that outsource.

But I agree that the money needs to go less to the Elite and more to people that can create jobs. Maybe have a government sponsored program to startup new business or help old business retool for current technology.

[Skwmom]

21. Well the sugar barons from Cuba rebuilt their sugar

empire in the U.S. b/c they were allowed to estimate the loss of their business seized by Castro and use that estimated loss to keep from paying U.S. taxes for years (at least that's what I heard). Of course, they also engaged in abusive labor practices.

Loans bearing a minimal interest rate would surely help.

[Raineyb]

23. We used to have such a system they were called tariffs

When we used to add tariffs to make the cost of foreign goods equal to the cost of manufacturing them in this country companies would manufacture here. Now we give tax incentives to companies that ship jobs overseas while the idiots who run these companies seem to forget that if the workers don't have enough money to buy their widgets it doesn't matter how cheap the labor is that went into them.

In addition, the investor class seem to be under the impression that they are entitled to double digit return on their investment every year. Dividends were paid by companies that didn't need the capital it's not supposed to be the method by which some folks make their living. When this country had a higher marginal tax rate (and I think Thom Hartmann is on the money with his idea of rolling back the Regan tax cuts) the owners of business would take the money (outside of what they pulled out in withdrawing for personal use of course) and reinvest in the company thus hiring more workers and increasing productivity. Now the incentive is to take the money out and stash it away in foreign tax havens. Unless something is done about this nothing will be fixed. It'll just be a band-aid placed until the next big bubble comes along.

Some would call such policies protectionism but it worked for 200 years before Reagan got his dumb ass mitts on this country's economy. Reagan was the worst thing to come along for this country before the moron that is George W Bush.

Regards

[OnionPatch]

17. You have a point, but

even with comparable quality, the extremely low wages and lack of workers rights/benefits in other countries tilt the playing field. Not to mention the lack of environmental regulation.

We're pitting a society with a healthy middle-class against societies where poverty and peasantry are the norm. It's a no-win situation for American workers.

[Numba6]

20. We can't compete w/ countries that care enough about their people to provide health care to all n/t

So we should just give up and put in a single payer system

[Cerridwen]

22. There is an old saying...

"(that person) knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Those people, are now the ones who make "business" decisions based on "cost cutting" and "bottom lines."

There is another old saying, "Penny wise and pound foolish."

I've known of (we all know) employers who churn through experienced workers to replace them with cheaper, inexperienced workers in order to "save" money in salary and benefits without realizing what the added training time and the reduction in product/service quality is costing them.

I remember small business owners (and large businesses) who were proud of the fact that they provided good paying jobs and benefits to their employees. Now I see small business owners (and corporations) who appear to be proud of paying the least amount of money for the most amount of "work." They actually equate increased production with increased quality and/or value. Making 500 poor-quality widgets is far more impressive to them than making 250 top-quality widgets.

Our reliance on the GDP's measure of widgets as a standard does nothing to help this scenario.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. You're making a lot of assumptions here

First of all, you assume that low wages leads to cheap shoddy goods that don't last and are hazardous to your health. Recent news stories about Chinese goods suggest that there is certainly a correlation between low wages and cheap shoddy goods that are hazardous to your health. But correlation does not mean causation. Lower wages do not lead to shoddy hazardous goods in all circumstances.

Second, you assume that people are willing to pay more for higher quality more expensive versions of the goods that are presently made in low wage countries. The evidence is overwhelmingly to the contrary. US consumers when given a choice between two similar goods tend to go with the cheaper one not thinking about the possibility that the more expensive good might last longer. Certainly not the case in every scenario but with typical consumer goods that tends to be the case. And if consumers do want a better product they often go for a more expensive one that is imported. You assume that "Made in China" is syononymous with "crap" in the US consumer's mind. That is not true and has not been true for quite some time.

Third, you assume that US manufacturers can inherently make a better product. I'm sure that in some circumstances they can. In other circumstances not so much. The Italians make much better suits than US designers do, at least in my opinion. Sure they're sewn together in Mexico but the ones sold in Europe are sewn together in Egypt, another low wage country. Either way they are far superior to most American designed suits, even those that are actually sewn together in the US.

The fact of the matter is that US consumers are more or less satisfied with our cheap imported manufactured goods because they keep buying them. Whether or not their satisfaction with these goods is a good thing in the long run is a different story. But you can't start to address the problem with false assumptions about US consumers.

[anonymous171]

25. That is why Protectionism exists. nt

[mdmc]

26. Perhaps you are mistaking cost for quality

Nike makes a good sneaker at slave wages.
Prada also makes a good sneaker, at a living wage.

As long as folks want cheap shit, corporations will oblige.
If folks want goods made by union labor, then corporations will oblige.

As of right now, folks don't care about workers.

[Vinca]

27. We should have jobs at all skill levels.

There's nothing wrong with being a factory worker and those jobs should be available in this country. I'm old enough to remember a good small appliance. You could buy a decent American-made toaster and keep it for 20 years. Now there are white plastic $7 wonders that don't brown evenly and have to be replaced every couple of years.

[Every Man A King]

30. So are you for Free-Trade or not?

I'm confused a bit.

[TrogL]

31. I'll settle for a pair of boots or shoes that last longer than a few months