I'm calling on my county party to oppose Leahy's "truth and reconciliation" commission

[derby378]

I agree with Senator Leahy that the crimes of the Bush administration need to be thoroughly investigated.

I do not agree, however, that we should let those involved in these crimes get away with them. Especially any crimes involving war crimes such as torture.

So I'm introducing a resolution at my county party's meeting this weekend to oppose the Leahy commission if it's just going to sweep everything under the rug and not hold anyone accountable.

Who's with me on this?

[stray cat]

1. My understanding is amnesty would be given to some individuals to get at the truth

thats usually the case in a criminal investigation in order to make any case against the people really in charge.

[derby378]

4. Last time that happened, Cheney and Rumsfeld started plotting their comeback

We cannot allow this strain of neo-fascism to come back stronger than last time and destroy the democratic process once and for all.

You don't kill Hydra by chopping off the heads. You drive a sword through its collective heart.

[pleah]

2. I feel the same way. These commission hearings

are all fine and dandy, but if they aren't going to hold anyone accountable, then why bother. It is just a waste of time and taxpayer dollars.

I want prosecutions of these criminals.

[dkf]

3. If this is your biggest concern right now, you must be in terrific financial shape.

I do envy you.

[derby378]

6. I think some are hoping that our near-depression will provide enough cover for the guilty to escape

The time to hold these Bushies accountable is now.

[dkf]

26. Personally, I'd rather Obama spent all his political capital fixing our economy.

Whats wrong with waiting a year or two? We've already waited years.

[phleshdef]

5. If Leahy commission is the only way we will at least know everything that happened...

Then there is no way in hell it should be opposed. This should be allowed to happen and should be allowed to play out however it plays out.

[derby378]

7. George Bernard Shaw: "We learn from history that we learn nothing from history"

We can't afford to make that mistake again. Bring on the trials.

[atreides1]

10. Then Why Nuremberg??

[leveymg]

16. We already know enough to indict them. Just do it.

Bush and Cheney already admitted they authorized the Plame outing, torture, and warrentless domestic spying.

Just convene a Grand Jury, and let the Justice System work.

[MarjorieG]

8. We need the truth. Those most guilty will not come orward, then be vulnerable at not having immunity

We must be able to show the public what happened, because the media and GOP are in lock step to undermine Obama and Co, sure as rain.

[atreides1]

13. The Truth is Useless without punishment.

So do we give immunity to a serial killer if they confess, do we give immunity to Bernard Madoff if he tells us where the money went?

When do we punish those who were just "following orders", like we did at Nuremberg?

I guess Justice isn't so blind after all, it tends to look the other way whenever convenient.

We can show the public what happened, but we'll also show the public that you can commit war crimes and not be punished under the law, and we'll also be showing the rest of the world that the US is all talk and no action when it comes to violations of international law.

[MarjorieG]

21. It's a way to get it, when public not consumed and in support. Economics more a concern.

I don't want to argue righteousness with you, or Nuremberg. Justice and Peace are always valid pitches to make, emotional as well.

[derby378]

24. I would counter, on the other hand...

...that if we're not willing to prosecute those who stand accused of war crimes, maybe we don't deserve to know what the truth is. Economics takes a backseat to our national integrity.

[tularetom]

9. This commission BS is just a way for Senate Dems to avoid prosecuting these crooks

while conveying to the public the impression that they are actually doing something about their crimes.

Seems to me the truth would come out just as well if a special prosecutor were hired and given power to grant immunity to some of the minor players in an effort to get at the bigger targets.

I can understand why Obama is reluctant to get involved in the discussion while the stimulus plan is on his plate. Hopefully he too will oppose this stupid idea once he feels free to deal with the matter.

I have very little confidence in Leahy.

[liberalsince1968]

11. I wouldn't oppose it. I'd introduce a resolution to give Leahy some balls.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

12. That makes no sense whatsoever. (nt)

[leveymg]

14. Investigate, Indict, Prosecute, Incarcerate. Nothing less, nothing more.

We went through this Truth and Reconciliation crap after Watergate, the Church Committee, Iran-Contra, and 9/11.

All that comes out of it is more crimes of state.

You want to put a halt to this endless cycle? Stick some major figures in jail.

[glitch]

19. a little something more: Seize Assets.

Punitive Damages, Reparations, whatever you want to call it. Break them so thoroughly that they can't come back and do this again every generation.

[Occam Bandage]

15. ...this is why we can't have nice things. nt

[ladjf]

17. Leahy's idea is naive and stupid at best, disingenuous at worst. nt

[EFerrari]

28. I'd rule out naive and stupid. n/t

[ladjf]

30. We are on the "same page". I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt. nt

[AtomicKitten]

18. While I agree with your premise, I do not agree with your conclusion. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

20. Here’s the Real TRUTH About Sen. Leahy’s Truth Commission ......

“WE WON’T ACTUALLY PROSECUTE ANYONE, WITH ONE NOTABLE EXCEPTION … FUCK YOU, DICK.”



http://satiricalpolitical.com/

[formercia]

22. Leahy's "truth and reconciliation" commission?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/formercia/228

I used to think it was a good idea to deflate tensions but what happened in South Africa changed my mind.

The boys had already lost Rhodesia and they knew they had to do something otherwise the great South African prize would be lost forever.

They recruited a prisoner by the name of Nelson Mandela and gave him a choice to cooperate or rot in prison.

The boys kept their fortunes and the poor in South Africa, both Black and White, are still poor.

As a reward, they made Mandela a Knight of Malta.




Now, isn't that precious?

[bvar22]

23. When was the last time ANY commission ....

....in Washington was about "The Truth"?

Nothing will be done.
At this point, I trust the private, For Profit sector.


I will donate $500 to ANY organization that will place a Bounty on Bush/Cheney to be paid to anyone who provides evidence or sworn testimony that leads to their indictment, arrest, or the issuing of an International Arrest Warrant.

A small, transparent trust located in a neutral country like Switzerland could administer the fund. If the BOUNTY is promoted internationally, it would quickly grow to Mega-Millions.

The fund would also be tasked with running full page Wanted For War Crimes ads in major Global newspapers every 3 months until the Bounty is awarded or depleted.

I believe that such a fund would be wildly popular worldwide, and provide the administrators an opportunity to make a little money.
I have neither the resources or skills to institute such a fund, but like I said above, I am willing to donate $500. I also believe that there are at least a million more worldwide (extreme minimum) who would also be willing to donate....that adds up to some serious money....the kind of money that would tempt people like Rove, Pearle, Feith, or other NeoCons who have saved evidence to protect themselves.

Wanted
for
WAR CRIMES


A $500 Million Dollar Reward will be paid to any individual, organization, or country that provides evidence or sworn testimony that leads to the arrest, or the issuance of an Internal Arrest Warrant for War Crimes committed by George Bush, Dick Cheney, Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, or Donald Rumsfeld.

It is clear that the Opposition Party (Democratic Party) and the US Justice Department will do NOTHING to hold the criminals accountable.
A private organization representing Citizens of the World would have better results.


Even if Bush/Cheney are never arrested, a Mega-Million Dollar International Bounty would certainly keep them looking over their shoulders and curtail retirement travel plans.

It would also put a nice ribbon around the Bush Legacy, AND serve as a warning to future "Unitary Executives".

[emulatorloo]

25. Leahy is a lot sharper than you give him credit for.

"truth and reconciliation" commission -- that sounds all safe and nice. Why who could object to that?

Leahy is no fool - he knows where this is going to lead, and it is not going to be nice for Bush officials when the evidence comes out and it MADE PUBLIC. Hard not to prosecute then.

[Enrique]

27. need to clearly define "if it's going to sweep everything under the rug..."

how does your resolution define that condition?

[EFerrari]

29. I'm with you. We don't need to reconcile with murderers. We need to indict them. n/t

[Avalux]

31. I oppose it too. Would turn out like the 9/11 Commission.

Whether or not laws were broken is black and white and there's no need for a commission to reconcile anything. $$$ would be spent and no action would come of it. Might as well rip the cover off the 9/11 Commission report and slap on a "Truth and Reconcilation Commission" cover.

[derby378]

32. Is the TRC dead yet?

No? Then neither is my opposition to it.