Since everyone and their brother is weighing in on Obama supporters, I guess I can too..

[Peacetrain]

Since I have been a supporter of President Obama from the early days in Iowa, I can read between the lines of a lot of threads, and I know when I am being played and when I am not.

But I will make this one point in reference to DU. We all have a right to our opinions and who we support and why.

I try and stay out of the fire fights that blow up in here, just every few days.

But I do look at some threads with a wary eye, because, we did not even get one day, not one day too just celebrate without a whole slew of threads calling supporters either cultists, or intolerant of dissenting views.

So I take everything with not only a grain of salt, but the whole entire box.

Because honest to GOD folks, we are in a whole new range of territory here, with two hot wars, and and economic melt down, and I don't know if Obamas plans will work out like I hope, no one knows this.

I will continue to support President Obama, and I am sure I am giving him much more leeway than I would another President at a different time and place.That does not make me a cultist, or intolerant of opposing points of views.

But we are all strangers in a strange land of political pitfalls right now.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Thank you, brother lockstepper.

:P

EDIT: It helps to not hang out overmuch in the ihateobama forum in the first place.

[Peacetrain]

2. Your welcome Bloo...

That is one step forward and two steps back ;)

[MadBadger]

3. Yup, Long Time Obama Worshipper here, since the announcement...guess I gotta defend myself soon.

lol

[Peacetrain]

8. I think it will get real interesting in about 6 months

If things are not turning around quickly enough, (and I do not think they can turn that fast) You might want to invest in some body armor.. I know I am :rofl:

[firedupdem]

4. Thanks for your post.

It didn't take me long to read between the lines as well.

[Still Sensible]

5. Agreed

and well said.

[liberalmuse]

6. I wish I had been an early supporter.

Barack Obama impressed me when I first heard of him, and especially after his speech, but frankly, I had become so deeply cynical that even though I did not doubt he'd be President some day, I still harbored the uncomfortable feeling that he was perhaps too good to be true. Also, I didn't like his bipartisan stance. I have been so utterly disgusted with Republicans for so many years that I wasn't ready to play nice. However, after watching him, I came to the conclusion that he was the real deal, and that he had this innate sense of knowing what he was doing more than I did. Needless to say, I am extremely impressed with the guy, though unlike the 'pubs who seem to have this unhealthy "Messiah/antiChrist" (don't let them project this onto us--it is their weird issue) fixation on him, I know all too well that he is human, which makes me love and respect him all the more.

[Mojorabbit]

28. I am cynical

I want to believe he is all he is made out to be, I really want to but I am old and been burned too many times. Hoping for the best here. If nothing else I am glad he was elected, I am happy the country is trending Blue again. That the "me me me" attitude is changing to the "we". That makes it all worth it. The pendulum is swinging again and it is a wonderful thing to behold after so long. He was the only candidate that could change the direction of the country and I am happy he was elected. I am rooting for him. I want him to succeed.

[Cha]

34. I wish I had been an even earlier

supporter 'cause I didn't read his Oct 2002 anti-War On IRaq speech until 2008. I would been paying attention to him a lot longer and would have been ecstatic when he announced his candicacy for Prez.

But, I was really happy when he won Iowa:bounce:

I got his back.

[Joe the Revelator]

7. The "lines" we have to read between have been clear for a LONG time

Its sad. And pathetic.

[stray cat]

9. My stance is strongly that we are better off with Obama/Biden than McCain/Palin

that was the final choice we were given and I trust Obama/Biden a great deal more than our alternative - not a doubt in my mind!

I question anyone who wishes he or she would have voted for McCain/Palin instead of supporting Obama/Biden.

[Peacetrain]

11. Can you imagine where we would be right now if McCain had

won the election.:scared: The idea is just mind boggling. We will be 20 years trying to recover from the last 8, ..

[stray cat]

17. It really is a scary proposition!

[murielm99]

10. Obama did not get any sort of a honeymoon with the press,

or with Congress. Critics were after him before he took the oath. The talk shows with all the republican shills make my blood pressure rise, so I usually avoid them.

I have not been critical of Obama yet, because I think he deserves time. How can anyone know if his solutions will work out long term? I think most of them will. But what do people want, McCain's solutions?

When I see some of the threads here, I wonder if SOME of are being directed by people outside of DU who wish all Democrats ill.

If not that, the criticisms are coming from good Democrats who are too easily misled by republican talking points. Republican propaganda is insidious and pervasive. So, rather than jumping on everyone who is critical, answering them rationally, using good arguments and links to back up answers might be best. I have been coming to DU for a long time because people here do educate me. It beats flaming.

I did not support Obama until after he won the primary. I think everyone here knows that. I worked very hard when he became the nominee. I am a little bit disturbed that we have to tell each other something like that. I have been a foot soldier for Democrats all my life. When the primaries are over, they are OVER. If some DUers don't realize that, screw 'em.

[Peacetrain]

12. The press so fell off the wagon against Bush after 9/11..

That they had their long knives fully sharpened. The whole idea that Obama got this "free pass" from the press is just more right wing propaganda, like all media except for Fox and the hell hounds of talk radio is "liberal" media.

[TTUBatfan2008]

15. Anything that isn't hard to the right is considered "liberal"...

CNN in my opinion is moderate. In fact, their most outspoken commentator is Lou Dobbs and he's a libertarian/conservative. And up until recently they had Glenn Beck on their Headline News network. Yet they are considered "liberal." What a load of horseshit.

[AndrewP]

21. The complete truth right there.

CNN just isn't batshit right wing, so they are "so liberal". LOL

[countingbluecars]

13. Good post.

I know what you mean about reading between the lines.

[Autumn]

14. Any one who would not support

President Obama is a fucking moron. We have a President who is compassionate and intelligent. I haven't agreed with all his picks but everybody has their opinion. And damn he looks good in a cowboy hat.

[Jennicut]

23. I second this. He does look damn good in a cowboy hat.

I really don't care what anyone thinks of that except my husband!

[Peacetrain]

25. He knows how to wear that hat crease..

:hi:

[eleny]

16. K&R for commn sense - thanks!

[IsItJustMe]

18. Wait and see, that is all one can do. But what I am seeing so far, it's not good. Looks like the

same old shit in a different package. Here is a clue, he don't want to go after Bush for war crimes. In my mind, before we can move forward, it is an absolute necessity that we have a reckoning of the past.

Same thing with this stimulus. Tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thou sans of people are loosing their homes right now across this country. The solution, 14 extra dollars a week in your pay check. And mega banks will continue to get huge sums of money for their bail outs. I know this is over simplification, but damn, these are times that call for decisive big ideas. It's just not what I am seeing.

But hey, I could be wrong and I still have hope that things will change.

[merh]

19. K&R

and may I share this with you

[Peacetrain]

20. ~rofl~ Thanks...

[NYC_SKP]

29. Me, too, K and R...

It's a lot of drama, and it's sad that it has at times gotten so bad that good members left, some returned, and very, very, mean and hateful things were said.

But at the end of the day we're all good, and we all know how important it was to get a good man or woman in the white house, and we got one.

:toast:

Rec number 10.

[PurityOfEssence]

22. People were quite respectful after the election and around the inauguration

There wasn't a moment when there was NO dissent, but many were respectful during these times. There is NEVER going to be a time when NO dissent exists, and if that's some evil act of disrespect, then the expectations are not only beyond reality, they're an expression of privilege.

Things simmered down quite a bit, and it wasn't just because people were annoyed or, as some of the triumphalists said, without a rhetorical leg to stand on, they were from respect. Some of us, no matter how irritated certain policies make us, still have a bit of respect for the feelings of others when they're finally experiencing a moment of joy and hope.

That, apparently, is not enough. One must have NO discord AT ALL, or else one is some kind of beast. I held my tongue a lot during these two times, and a fair amount of the reason for that was a communal respect for others. (Some of it was also to not have the concept of dissent tagged as the ravings of ingrates, but it was mostly out of camaraderie.)

What kind of fantasyland are people living in where the idea of a free-flowing forum of ideas is to be uniformly stopped OR ELSE? What is this OR ELSE that comes with this box of salt? Does this justify the Morton Girl in a slicker dumping a truckload of street-salt on anyone who has problems with some of the distinctly corporatist and religious moves of this operation? What does your GOD have to say about that, and why do I have to keep hearing this alleged entity being conjured up in supposedly rational debate as you just did? The use of a supreme being in discussion is meant to be a stopper; you're showing the soul-wracking seriousness of your emotional dilemma, and that's meant to dismiss others who differ as playing casual games, while you're in deep, significant trauma.

Some of the rest of us think some serious mistakes are being made, and it's not just an issue of ego and the need to be the only ones in the room with any sense, it's serious business to us, too.

Personally, I think Obama got a free ride in a lot of ways at a lot of times, and his "word" was treated as fact, regardless of his actions or inactions. We've been force-fed the concept that he was just playing games and deceiving the conservatives with his rightward moves, whereupon he'd break with his habits and move to the left. Now, we're increasingly being told that these expectations of progressivity were the mistake of pathetic dimwits who didn't pay attention to the fact that he was a moderate all the time. Either way, how DARE we question.

Those who were legitimately disappointed or had serious differences had rights, too, and although some were being selfish or contrarian, some were sincere. It's not like the Obama supporters were universally tolerant, nice or played fair, either.

Sorry you didn't get the reprieve that none of the rest of us have EVER gotten, but pluralism is a drag. Most of the derision of the "cultist" variety is generally ladled out with disclaimers that it doesn't apply to ALL of the stalwarts. If you think it applies to you too, that's your assumption.

[Peacetrain]

24. Well I do not think the term "cultist" applies to any established poster here

I am not buying that chestnut, this only applies to a few.. sure people are happy, does not make them cultists, but the fact someone posts a bunch of pictures, gets peoples noses out of joint .. well all I can say, is "get a grip"

[Jennicut]

26. Don't we have more important things to worry about then pic threads?

Sheesh. I think some people are bored tonight.

[PurityOfEssence]

30. Oh, there are definitely some, but that's not really the point

Look, one of the more pleasant aspects of liberalism is tolerance of difference, and another is an ability to deal with grey areas. Those who demand lockstep allegiance sorta spoil the whole thing.

People are on a high right now, and let 'em have their fun, but let's not deny that it exists. It's a pitfall.

One of humanity's greatest faults is the self-congratulatory presumption of one's own perception. People put far too much stock in first impressions, but we are the raw material with which we work so we're wise to assess our fellow critters and act accordingly. Let's face it: people just really aren't that good. It's wise for us all to have some humility and not presume such personal perspicacity.

Many of Obama's first steps have been good--some even VERY good--but some have not. Sadly, the most important one has NOT. Geithner, Summers et Al. are a dreadful choice, and the plan has been so watered down that it may not work. I hope I'm wrong, but it looks bad either way: either it fails and we're in for a world of hurt, or we scrape by and we're saddled with the same larcenous corporate feudalism for a few more spasmic cycles until it's unsalvageable. It's the same thing with health care, the same thing with Afghanistan, and DEFINITELY the same thing with using religion for political leverage.

First steps are VERY important, and I think there's been some very good and constructive criticism that's been shouted down as calumnious treason by those who will brook no dissent. When the energy behind quashing dissent comes from policy choices, that's fine, but when it comes from a willing abdication of personal efficacy to the unquestionable genius of a charismatic leader whose approach has often been one of vagueness like "hope", it bears being mentioned. NOBODY should be above reproach. NOBODY. A politician should be judged on policy and actions, not on how he does in the swimsuit competition or how much joy he whips up on occasion. Sure, some swooning along those lines is fine, human, enjoyable, understandable and all that, but when it gets to be a bit much, it's constructive to say so.

In the end, this was started by one of the stalwarts who had just had enough of the vapidity. The fact that this came from one of the true supporters should give people a clue that it's gotten a bit out of line. People have every right to gush at every act and utterance, but others have the right to call 'em for their silliness. Just because Obama says something is so or good or not DOESN'T MAKE IT SO. This is why religion is kept out of politics: actions need to be justified in a causal and rational way, not BECAUSE I SAID SO. Where it gets dangerous is where ANYTHING he says or does is instantly not only defended but skewed around to seem like some other-worldly move of strategic genius. That kind of idiocy will deprive us of our most valuable asset as pluralists: the ability to work together and judge reality for what it is.

Those who can't stand complexity are dangerous. Those who can't distinguish between infatuation and rational assessment of policy will bring us to a pathetic ruin punctuated with ludicrous excuses and sanctimonious evocations of privilege.

Life is complex; those who demand it to be simple fuck up everything. Obama is in a good tactical position now, but things are so volatile right now that he could mess things up but good, and we owe it to ourselves to address things on a rational plane. The zealots are a problem, as well as a tiresome nuisance, and they deserve some heat.

[kwenu]

27. I don't worship him I just love him like a school kid with a crush...does that count?

[Window]

31. K/R.

:kick:

[Bluerthanblue]

32. really nice post

Peacetrain.

:grouphug:

We're in a hard place as a country, but we have more hope of a positive outcome with the people we've got working in the White House today-

Not gods, not perfect- but very good and decent people- led by a energetic, self controlled, patient young man, who has a way of achieving what he sets out to do. (by mobilizing and motivating us to a great degree).

K&R

:hi:

[glowing]

33. The only way to make President Obama the best President Ever is to make

him be the best President ever. If we do not support progressive causes and focus on making our country better. We need to push for him to irradicate poverty, increase the greatest potential from all of its citizens, encourage a peace policy, and become a true beacon of a country that strives to create equality, and the right for life, liberty, and happiness; all while following the the constitution.. this also means, encouraging a change in representation.. from the very people in local govt to the top. If we want Progressive Change, we probably need to get change out a few of our politicians. Many have been there for a long time and have dirty hands across the aisle (guess that they do share some bi-partisan traits--LOL). Its up to us to make him be the best that he can be. This is going to take work from us. The election is just one process. We have more work to do. Many people in this country do not participate or demand their rights to participate in a fair and free democracy. Many do not know the basics of our civics. So, its time to educate, change the way money dictates elections and politicians, and to participate in our democracy.

[Two Americas]

35. it is not either/or

Those posting critical or dissenting opinions are not preventing anyone from feeling anyway to choose to feel. The charges of "cult followers" are unfortunate, but are almost always in response to attacks on people for being "disloyal" when they try to discuss anything other than admiration and positive emotional feelings about the President.

Placing one's personal emotional feelings about a personality above all else - and I do think that some are doing that - is hero worship. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, providing that people understand that this is not the only way to support or be loyal to the President and do not insist that we all feel that way or be seen as the enemy.

Very few, if any, would ever be talking about hero worship or cult behavior were they free to post critical and dissenting opinions without being accused of having a hidden agenda or being disloyal.

[Peacetrain]

37. First of all.. what cult praising, hero worhsipping threads.?

Some posters enjoy picture threads of the new first family..and this is what inflamed thelatest go around.

Soooo it is okay for one segment to insult another?? (and believe me it is insulting to accuse someone of being a cultist) and then fall apart at the seams when people push back?

[Marrah_G]

40. There have been a few

No, not the picture threads, but there have been some creepy ones.

I'll quote one:

"I'm sure I'm not the only female in America who, when Obama looked into the camera, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think he's looking at me." And his smile. By the end, when he clearly knew he was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, he's got it. "

Yeah, that sort of post is a good example of hero worship.

But I think it's very few people in this "fight".

I believe most DUers like and respect our new President, but realize that he has made a few mistakes and will make more and he is 10000X better then the alternative.

[Peacetrain]

42. As you so rightfully point out Marrah that is one person

and if someone wants to go to them and say, you know my friend, you might be going off the farm here a little, is between them and the wind.

[Marrah_G]

44. Like I have said before...I think it is only a handful of people

I've been trying hard to just put them on ignore rather then get into fights and saying things I later regret.

I blame the red hair.

But the hard-core Obama supporters have some blame in all this too. They are too quick to label any criticism of an Obama action as being "anti-Obama".

Many of us have lashed out over the last year, viciously, at each other.

We have to find better ways to talk to each other.

[hileeopnyn8d]

45. Are you kidding me?

Do you not know where that comes from? That was originally written by Rich Lowry in the National Review about Palin. Change look/looking to wink/winking, and you have the piece he wrote about Palin after the VP debate.

I don't think the person who posted that was serious. Good grief.

[AspenRose]

46. Good catch.

[Two Americas]

47. it may not be possible

The two sides are so far apart, that it may not be possible to reach any understanding.

Of course if people want to post photos or praise the President, there is nothing wrong with that. Do people really imagine that anyone here objects to that?

But behind the "fun" there is another message. Those at whom it is aimed can see it quite clearly. Others cannot, and deny that it is there.

Almost every "isn't the President wonderful" post or thread has a barb - "so therefore those of you who are critical are wrong and to be dismissed and ignored and not taken seriously." It is often not even hidden. In one post this will be denied, in the next post from the same person they will brag about it. Yet we are all supposed to pretend that it is not happening. It is supposed to be fun and love and happiness, but that just is a veneer over a very aggressive and hostile and exclusionary message.

I cannot imagine that people are this naive about communications and relationships, that there is anyone here who has not experienced this often in real life. We all went to middle school. We all know how this works - the forming of gangs and cliques, the ridicule of the outsiders, the portrayal of the outsiders as defective, as losers. Anyone criticizing the party or the President us being portrayed as "not cool," as an outsider, as a loser, as an appropriate target for ridicule and attack. The threads praising the President are not really about the President, they are saying "look at how great we are, those who are praising the President and not tearing him down like those other losers are doing." To deny that this is happening - and many deny that it ever could possibly happen - is to deny everything we know about human behavior and group dynamics, from our direct daily experience in life.

The defenses and apologies for the bullying evolve on an almost daily basis. That is because the goal is not really to have a love fest for the President, but rather to drive away, harass and annoy any who will not get on the program. Now, over the last few days, we are to believe that those wishing to express their admiration for the President are somehow the oppressed and persecuted group, that someone is trying to deny them their freedom to express their admiration for the President. This is a new approach. It is a tactic, clearly. "Is there something wrong with admiring the President?" they ask in feigned innocence. No one ever said that there was anything wrong.

I have had several exchanges with people over the last couple of days, where I said go ahead and express your admiration for the President - nothing wrong with that. But please do not use that to kick others to the curb. The response? You get called a whiner and purist, your motives are questioned and on and on. They deny using admiration for the President as an opportunity for kicking others to the curb, and then kick you to the curb for suggesting that they are!

I think this reflects a profound way in which the relentless right wing propaganda campaign in the MSM has affected the liberal community. People take liberal positions, use liberal rhetoric, but mimic the right wing tactics. For example, flipping the debate, so that the aggressors can be portrayed as the victims, and their targets as the aggressors. We see this with the right wing reverse racism tactic and in many other ways.

People like to be on the winning team. They like to be part of the favored and special group. They do not like to hear any information that spoils their picture of things. They turn it around and claim that the targets of their bullying are actually the ones at fault, actually persecuting or bothering them in some way when the targets complaining about the abuse. That has nothing to do with supporting or admiring the President, that is using the President to fill personal emotional needs.

[Uzybone]

36. Along with the 2 wars and total economic crumble...

..include the heartless villans on the right trying to destroy him. He has a heckuva job in front of him. A tougher job than any president has seen since FDR.

So when people who claim to be liberals/leftists are mocking those who support our president, I wonder, what exactly is their motivation?

[Marrah_G]

38. Aren't we all Obama supporters here?

Sometimes we will love his decisions, sometimes, we will like them, sometimes we will not like them, sometimes we will hate them.

[Peacetrain]

39. You would hope so.. otherwise why post in an area like this

But, calling people cultists and worshipers, pretty insulting actually.

Let me edit this to add:

It is insulting to all Obama supporters, whether you agree with decisions or not. There is no way in this world or the next I agree with everything Obama has done or said. It is impossible, he is not some messianic messenger.

And to point out differences, where they are screwing up, is a good thing.

To start attacking the Obama supporters as cultists and worshipers, starts a Us VS Them, strategy, that should set the hair on fire of all the Obama supporters.

[Marrah_G]

41. Well frankly there have been examples like that and it is creepy

It's also insulting to be called a freeper, a rwer, a traitor, a Puma, a troll, etc for daring to speak out against something you consider s mistake by the President.

But you know what....maybe we do need to watch our words.

On both sides.

[Peacetrain]

43. Good point, because we are all on one side...

:hi:

[Two Americas]

49. not it is not

We are expanding the definition of insult to the point where it is meaningless. Having your ideas contradicted, or having people complain about your behavior are not the same thing as having your character, your person attacked or insulted. We need to make a distinction between talking about the message and talking about the messenger. People have not complained about hero worship, or at least that has been rare, they have complained about it being used to attack people who express any dissenting or critical opinions.

Almost all of the critics and dissenters have been going about their business, and posting their opinions. They are the ones who have been accused of hidden agendas, of false motives, of character flaws, of disloyalty.

Over the last 48 hours we have seen a switch. Suddenly those who have been doing the bullying are trying to convince us that they are the ones being bullied, that they are the persecuted group. All they want to do, they say, is admire the President, and others are not letting them do that. That sudden change in tactics is just that - a tactical move, gamesmanship, a rhetorical stunt to advance their side in the debate.

Admire the President, praise him. Few here will complain about that. All that people are asking in return is that they be able to explore issues, express critical analyses, and dissent from the prevailing opinion without being the target of insinuations of disloyalty and evil motives and bad faith and character defects.

It us rare to see praise for the President that does not contain barbs, smug and malicious potshots being taken at any and all critics of any kind. THAT is the problem. I am criticizing what people are doing and saying here - I am NOT making an ad hominem attack. We need to differentiate between the two.

If someone says "you are demanding that we all base our support of the President upon hero worship and attacking anyone who expresses any criticism of the President" that is NOT an ad hominem attack, is not a personal insult, is not an attack on your character. That is a response, an objection, a self-defense by a person who is being attacked because they are expressing their opinion, and in response to an attack on them, rather than on their message. It may make you uncomfortable, it may be something that you do not wish to hear. But is is not "equal" to making unfounded insinuations about critics - that they are disloyal, that they are pushing a secret nefarious agenda, that they only intend to be tearing the President down.

Out inability to make these distinctions makes us extremely weak in the fight against the right wing, since they use these tactics to such great effect. That is why this is an important topic.

I am more than willing to discuss this at any length. I am not making any personal attacks or engaging in any name-calling nor hit and run posts.

I believe that I can make an airtight case that the critics are not "tearing down the President." I believe that I can make a very strong case that some here are trying to enforce a hero worship approach to supporting the administration, and are attacking any and all who resist that. We may disagree about that, but no one wants to discuss it, they merely want to keep the uproar going and trade talking points. They want to merely insult anyone who tries to say this, and are waging an aggressive campaign to prevail on the issue without ever actually discussing it. When I try to discuss this and reach an understanding - even though we may never agree - the discussion gets abandoned or I get attacked or insulted. I didn't go anywhere. I didn't stoop to that level. I didn't use any insults or make any personal attacks. I may have hurt people's feelings or embarrassed them because of what I said about their ideas, not anything I said about them personally or about their character.

[Numba6]

48. The Obsession About Obama Supporters & Heroes plays

into the strategy of hate started last year,

as I went on at length in a reply to a similar post here if anyone's interested:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8201986&mesg_id=8203745

[politicasista]

50. The only person I worship is God

I don't worship any human being.

I only comment in the photo threads or when President Obama and other Dems do good things. Yes, I support PO, and FLMO. I never thought of him as a Messiah or a brainy political genius (though he is a smart pol, and they are a cool family :)).

I won't agree with everything he will do all the time, but he and the First Family are a breath of fresh air from the 8 years of Smirkism.