Obama, not Bush, now seeking delay of Rove deposition

[Javaman]

Source: RawStory

Former Bush Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove has a new president urging Congress not to force him to testify next week.

President Barack Obama.

In a court brief quietly filed Monday, Michael Hertz, Obama's acting assistant attorney general, said it was necessary to delay an effort to force Rove to be deposed in a congressional investigation into the firing of nine US Attorneys and the alleged political prosecution of a former Alabama governor.

Hertz said an effort was underway to find a "compromise" for Rove, and requested two weeks to broker a deal before proceeding in court.

"The inauguration of a new president has altered the dynamics of this case and created new opportunities for compromise rather than litigation," Hertz wrote in the brief released late Monday by McClatchy's Washington, D.C. bureau. "At the same time, there is now an additional interested party — the former president — whose views should be considered."


Read more: http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_not_Bush_now_seeking_delay_0217.html

---

WTF???

[liberalmuse]

1. I can't accept this.

Rove is a treasonous, murdering piece of shit, along with most of the Bush administration. I want them punished to the full extent of the law. None of this "Kumbaya" shit. And I don't give a fuck about giving the mass-murdering Bush any consideration. To hell with the lot of them.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

11. Michael Hertz IS A BUSHIE

EXTERMINATE

http://preview.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=6622964

[wordpix]

317. is he a Bushie holdover? Can't believe this is Obama's move

[Bette Noir]

96. Oh, I'm sure our Chessmaster in Chief has something in mind.

Would it be better to lock up Rove for contempt of Congress, thereby making him even more of a hero to the right-wing troglodytes, or have him eating jellybeans out of Barack's hand while he testifies against Bush and Cheney?

(damn typos)

[LiberalFighter]

126. Rove is not likely to testify against Bush and Cheney.

Maybe DOJ has plans to prosecute and convict him and Congressional investigation might interfere.

[Soylent Brice]

158. you squeeze the piggy hard enough...

and he'll squeal...

[crikkett]

176. ...without immunity and protection. We all see what happened to that Mike Connell guy

may he rest in peace :(

[L. Coyote]

257. What did you see, besides what they wnated you to see. He is likely alive and well

and unlike Rove, NOT being asked to testify!! See how that works.

[jhrobbins]

140. We keep saying this and I really hope you are right - I want 'real' change in DC

[LaPera]

254. Get real....you must live in a fantasy world! Fuck, fuck!!

President Obama has said every time asked that he's not interested in the past administration crimes, he wants to "move forward" - So Bushco knew they could break the law (as they did ) as often as they cared to (and they did) with no future repercussions.

Wouldn't every criminal like to have it so good....rob a bank, extort money, lie to false imprison your enemies and then simply have it overlooked by the the new person in command....

But, that only goes for the rich & powerful republicans - certainly not the poor.

Thanks President Obama!

Hopefully congress will have more balls & can override you and not overlook these incredible partisan republican crimes by Rove and the higher ups in the past administration.

Does this also mean Obama won't give his OK to prosecute other BushCo crimes, obviously so....BushCo lying us into a war & bankrupting the country as well as all the soldiers & civilians killed for oil and war for corporate profit, nor investigate illegally spying domestically on the American people for years, or what about torture allowing that as well?

Clinton allowed pappy Bush and the same BushCo crew off, and Obama wants to do the same, what's to stop the next republican fascist administration from doing worst (if that's possible)....This is outrageous & criminal actions now, by the democrats, allowing this and looking the other way!

[cottonseed]

279. "Hopefully congress will have more balls & can override you" - are you kidding me?

Pelosi, Harman, Rockefeller investigating Bush crimes. Seriously, are you really serious?

[Maraya1969]

316. Here's what I have to say about "moving forward" "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it

"Tell that to the president.

[liberalsince1968]

283. Lock him the fuck up.

[lark]

288. Rover is a pretty cagey sob

I would be very surprised if Obama rolled him and got him to tell the truth. Happy, but very surprised.

[aggiesal]

143. Here's the compromise ...

We ask the questions, Rove answers them.

What other compromise is there?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

187. Completely unacceptable nt

[Sarah Ibarruri]

188. I'm off to write the White House and let them know this is unacceptable in every way nt

[roguevalley]

248. its not defensible. I hope no one tries.

[liberalsince1968]

282. Neither can I. Who knew Obama would be the Bushies' best friend? Why did I vote for him again??

[ixion]

2. *sigh* ... more "compromise" with war criminals

:(

[flyarm]

3. same boss as the old boss..what part of that are people

still not getting????????

eom

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. I get it.

x(

[bagrman]

46. Different sides of the same coin. He's just a cog in the machine.

[Lorien]

133. Take a look at GDP; a lot of people don't get it

there a quite a few there who would start to defend Rove if Obama defends Rove.

[Cheap_Trick]

204. And there's a lot of people here waiting to pounce on Obama

based on the sketchiest and most dubious information.

Try reading this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8203431

[Lorien]

308. Questioning is not "pouncing on"

if we don't feel free to question our leadership then we aren't living in a democracy.

[flyarm]

342. Question everything..that is the USA I grew up in...

maybe you will follow anyone off a cliff, but i sure as hell will never stop questioning the people i pay their paychecks..it is my obligation to my constitution..maybe you aren't bound by the constitution , but until it is totally stolen from us, I will question everyone in my government..after all they are my employees, I pay their salary, and it is my responsibility to my constitution! I don't give a damn who it is!

[Myrina]

170. Exactly.

If he was really going to change things on a fundamental level, the Powers That Be would not have allowed Obama to be elected POTUS.

[MissDeeds]

242. Good point

Reaching across the aisle and letting BushCo war crimes slide is getting really old, really fast. Obama was swept into office on the promise of change, not status quo.



BTW - Good to see you, Fly.

[flyarm]

306. hello MissDeeds!! eom

[lark]

289. they are mired in hope and don't want to face the reality

that Obama is mainly more of the same. He is a total centrist, no left leaners allowed in policy making positions in his govt. Just look at the economic picture, who did he pick? The same guys that brought us TARP, the worst thing done to the american taxpapers EVER.

[earth mom]

293. I've been saying the same thing for months, but the denial is strong around here.

As long as "history" is being made, who gives a damn if the criminals get away scot free, ain't that so, DU?!

:argh:

[pacalo]

4. Not acceptable. And they know it, too, because it was done "quietly".

[rurallib]

5. A guy takes a hit on a bong and they want to hang him

ruin the world and no one says a thing.
Didn't Obama say he wanted to hear from the people?

[metis]

6. Why!?????? nt

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

7. Unacceptable, Mr. Obama.

You're bordering on colluding with war criminals.

[MNDemNY]

22. Bordering????? Naw, he's there.

[jgraz]

137. Question: what do you call someone who colludes with war criminals?

I believe the term is "war criminal".

[MNDemNY]

168. Quite so.

[Danger Mouse]

287. Are you seriously calling President Obama a war criminal?

:wow:

[readmoreoften]

296. If he protects war criminals--yes.

[Danger Mouse]

303. IF. We all need to take a deep breath.

[jgraz]

323. I'm not willing to mince words about the stain we ALL share for Bush's crimes

The question is, how much of that stain is our new president going to assume?

[ProgressIn2008]

331. You are correct. The term is indeed "war criminal". nt

[cottonseed]

281. Obama's a war criminal?

Because he's having a tough time having Pelosi, Harman, Rockefeller and the rest of the war hawks investigate crimes they were complicit in? Democrats are war criminals. Every one. You are one as well.

[annabanana]

8. This is very disturbing, and NOT the way forward.

I can see them buying time to allow them to look over the paperwork, but NOT in the interests of "compromising" with someone who has clearly, right out in public, fluanted the law numerous times.

[blm]

19. Exactly - the US attorney firings and targeting of Siegelman were all about STEALING ELECTIONS

once you strip away the peripheral issues.

Maybe some of Obama's more egotistical advisors don't WANT the public to think of 2002 and 2004 as stolen elections?

[loudsue]

24. You've got that right. It shows the bush mafia can ALSO control the new president.

The dark side of our intelligence agencies can still threaten the best of us. What REALLY needs to happen is we need to have a good cleaning out of all agencies of government and get rid of all of the fascists in our government that prescott bush brought home from nazi germany...including his own seed.

[annabanana]

44. He may have lost just as many votes as they did.. .

We really have no idea what kind of landslide he actually earned.

[blm]

49. My point is that strategists and advisors glorify themselves with perceived 'victories'

especially for 2008 when ANY Dem would have won, and I say that as an early Obama supporter.

Obama's winning in 2008 had to be seen as THEIR accomplishment, a result of their unique skills. Never mind that strategists like Axelrod were discouraging Dem candidates from confronting Bush on terrorism and Iraq issues in 2002 and 2004 and undermining those Dem candidates who did confront Bush.

[MindMatter]

198. I don't believe that

Biden would not have won. I question whether Hillary would have won. The cards had to fall right for Obama to win it. His (Axlerod's) rope-a-dope strategy was maddening, but it was the right strategy.

I'm willing to give the Obama team the benefit of he doubt that a negotiated settlement with Rove is a better play than an all out court fight. I can't articulate the trade-offs, but I do know these people give extremely careful thought to all of these moves.

I don't think the Obama team shares our enthusiasm for war crimes trials, and nobody should be surprised by that. But I do think they are trying to make the best decisions for America's future.

[blm]

200. In Nov2006 the generic Dem nominee was already well ahead in the polls.

You would have to believe that 2006 was a fluke and Bush's policies were still significantly supported to believe that the GOP nominee would win.

[ooglymoogly]

264. Yeah another benefit of the doubt and another and another; How many can we pile on before the

donkeys back is broken. We are taken for fools.

[rainy]

92. I think that too. Just look at all who turned out for his speeches.

He is so popular. I am convinced that he would have had lots more votes. Plus, they stole from other Dems running for congress.

[flyarm]

148. or didn't earn!!..it was done all in "PLANE" sight..many just chose to ignore

the facts!!!!!!!!!!!

how does Kissinger sound to you???? That is who Obama sent to the middle east..feeling good now??????

LIke I said , same boss as the old boss, only this time perhaps more dangerous!!

Do read Leo Strauss

[pleah]

9. WTF is right!

:banghead:

[rurallib]

10. Having digested this for a few minutes I am now really fucking mad

what a kick in the gut.

[KansDem]

12. Didn't we lean anything from Iran/Contra?

Lee Hamilton refused to pursue that scandal and opted to be "bipartisan" with then Rep. Dick Cheney who led interference for Reagan & Bush, and Bill Clinton wanted to concentrate on his domestic agenda, so nothing was done to bring the criminals to justice.

And look what happened: Newt took Congress in 1994; Clinton was impeached; and the Stolen Election of 2000 took place to usher in the current crisis as many of the Reagan/Bush thugs and cutthroats were left alone to pursue once again their malfeasance ...

I thought we learned a very important lesson during those years: You don't let sociopaths run free...

[RaleighNCDUer]

56. But there was another lesson from Iran/Contra as well -

Ollie North was forced to testify before congress, and granted immunity for that testimony. That immunity wound up tainting ALL subsequent investigations and prosecutions, so that in the end virtually everyone was off the hook for the Iran/Contra crimes.

I can only hope that this move is an attempt to stop the spoiling of larger prosecutions down the road.

[MNDemNY]

72. That is a stretch.

[nolabels]

129. Not really, but the more logical is the POTUS has been captured by the national security state

When they locate the POTUS in the bubble it always turns out this way. It is quite obvious when JFK tried to bust out of the bubble they let him or even set him up to be eliminated

[flyarm]

154. nonsense..our government never wanted Ollie Prosecuted..he held the keys and info

on our own government drug running..and who the powers that be, that were in the CIA and shadow government..and in our Banking system that were the real power brokers in the cocaine trafficking in the 80's and 90's in this country.

Ollie was the Key ..and no one was going to allow him to testify ever.

Read up about Barry Seal..and Dave Ferrie..before you post stuff you are naive about..please educate yourself and others around you about who these people are and only then will you understand ..we the people do not elect anyone..we are given chosen ones!

Same as this now..so what happens ..the same cast of characters get recycled over and over again..its the Octopus!

Case in point..Obama sent Kissinger to the middle east..one of the worst war criminals in my lifetime..

you are in denial if you think otherwise!

[Grinchie]

326. You are right on the Money -- Same recycled cast of characters

If the American people can't see that the same idiots are getting the choice jobs over other qualified people, then they are asleep and deserve to get screwed yet again.

This repeat of the dismissal of Iran-Contra behavior is disgusting and clearly shows that the Democratic leadership is nothing but a facade for the illusion of so called democracy.

We clearly need to look out for ourselves and do little or nothing to support a government that is tainted and controlled by big money interests. They can print money at will, and they do without regard to it's effect on the masses.

One poster mentioned that you take a hit off a Bongload of herb, and they want to destroy your career and life. Invade another country for oil, allow corporations to squander the environment, poison our food supply and poison the air, and all you hear is crickets. All in the name of unsustainable growth. It's truly sickening.

[flyarm]

343. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it

and it seems to me there are many young here that are totally ignorant of history..or there are protectionists..here to stop any questioning of Obama .at all costs..

Well it won't work with me..I pay big $$$$ taxes..and i damn well will question everything..i don't give a dang who it is! It is my constitutional responsibility to do so! You know the constitution people laid their lives down for..not just their freaking ipod!

Why has no one answered my question..where is the outrage of Obama sending Kissinger to the middle east?? Does the Ipod crew not know he worked for Nixon??????????

And Obama also sent over the retreads of Holbrooke and Mitchell..to the middle east..if Kissinger screws up..is James Baker next????????

again..........

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it

seems Obama is now repeating history and it does not give me warm fuzzies to see Kissinger going anywhere in the world other than the hague ..on my nations behalf!

remember * named Kissinger to head the 9/11 commission..until all the families of 9/11 screamed NO!!!!!!!

So why is Obama having Nixon's guy Kissinger going to the middle east?????????

The worst US crook and criminal in my lifetime.

[aggiesal]

164. Obama offers immunity to Rove, ...

Rove then admits to all wrong doing.

Because of immunity, Rove is never prosecuted.
And all others can say, Rove did it without our approval.
He's admitted it all.

[defendandprotect]

211. The Bush pardons took everyone off the hook . . .

[Raksha]

270. There aren't too many "larger prosecutions" possible than Karl Rove.

I can only think of two, off the top of my head. I'm not buying it.

[JDPriestly]

190. Maybe Obama wants to refer the matter to the Justice Department

once it gets going. Maybe he fears that the Congress will grant these guys immunity and then they don't have to serve sentences once convicted. Maybe Holder is reviewing the facts that were discovered during the prior Justice Department's investigation before deciding whether to indict or call a grand jury.

Write Obama and ask him to prosecute the criminals in the Bush administration. Write every day if you have to. Only if the letters/faxes/e-mails are received in massive numbers will we get anywhere.

[RaleighNCDUer]

260. That is my hope - that there is a sound, legal, prosecutorial reason

for not letting this die in some congressional investigation. It not being about letting Rove off the hook, but about keeping the door open for real criminal proceedings, which a toothless committee hearing could short circuit.

[dflprincess]

315. In addtion to Iran-Contra we did not learn from:

- not prosecuting those who plotted to overthrow FDR
- not doing more to those industrialists who collaborated with the Nazis than just giving them a slap on the wrist
- not really looking into who was really behind the murders of the Kennedys and MLK
- not digging into what Watergate was really about

and so many of the same players or their descendent's keep popping up in all these events and each time they come back bigger and badder than before.

I fear to think what they'll do next if they're not finally held accountable.

[underpants]

13. Rove isn't going to jail. He will be shamed publicly but people like that don't go to jail

not saying that is how it should be but that is the most likely outcome here.

Everyone knows what he did but it looks like team Obama is not going to throw out this protection yet. Not just for them but down the road.

[cascadiance]

20. The ONLY way I'd even consider him not going to prison is if it mean putting Bush and Cheney there!

And even in those circumstance, I STILL see him doing some time, just perhaps not as much time if he cooperates and helps put Bush and/or Cheney behind bars! Otherwise there should be NO DEAL AT ALL!

[lame54]

people like that have no shame

[pocoloco]

14. You didn't know this??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=2382566

[kath]

276. Thanks very much for that link

- yep, once they get in power, they get assimilated.

[rudy23]

15. At least we know Republicans will return the favor by not pressing Obama on executive privilege.

All this bipartisanship is going to pay off when Republicans start coming around to our side of the aisle to compromise

[MNDemNY]

37. Your spinning that , right into the ground.

[Tesha]

61. Your sarcasm detector needs repair! (NT)

[MNDemNY]

67. Adjusted same, thanks

:hi:

[Tesha]

197. No problem! Life has gotten sufficiently weird that, some days, you just can't tell anymore!

Irony certainly died during the Bush years! ;)

Tesha

[bahrbearian]

39. Are the Repugs coming to our side,?

Or are we are already on their side?

[No Elephants]

79. Please tell me you forgot the "sarcasm" emote.

[rudy23]

88. I did forget the sarcasm emoticon! I could have sworn I put it in there!

Maybe b/c I wrote it in fake html it didn't show up.

[rudy23]

89. Yep, I tried it at the end of that one, and it doesn't show when you do it that way. n/t

[No Elephants]

130. Thanks. My world makes sense again!

[Stinky The Clown]

16. WTF? Indeed

[happygoluckytoyou]

17. PRAGMATIC.... not reactive....

obama will NEED to compromise on a lot... that is what politics IS...
i am proud of the $financial$ solution.... and await to see where this goes

[MNDemNY]

32. How is your altar to the lord-god obama coming?

Got some cool candles?

[blm]

57. 9-11 happened because the global terror networks uncovered in IranContra and BCCI benefited from

the protection GHWBush and his powerful cronies involved in BCCI received throughout the 90s.

But then, that was just Bill Clinton choosing to side with 'pragmatic' secrecy and privilege of closed government instead of with accountability and open government.

[datasuspect]

58. what did bush compromise on?

[No Elephants]

80. Please. Remind me. What's our side of all these compromises again?

[MNDemNY]

82. We get fucked....FOR FREE !! Yipee!

[chill_wind]

85. Prosecuting abuse of power, election theft and war crimes is part of moving forward.

It is the law, and a strong deterrent to same future crimes. On that there can be no comprimise.
My children and my future grandchildren want that preserved.

[rudy23]

94. Compromise---throw one of our governors in jail, and I'll let you walk?

What do you get in return for that kind of compromise? Is Karl Rove going to stop criticizing Obama along partisan lines if Obama is "bipartisan" enough to turn a blind eye to the fact that he was using the DOJ as a Democrat imprisoning machine?

[fascisthunter]

238. yes... let's compromise Laws for the WEALTHY...

great message to send the voters who are mainly lower income. That'll win more votes for the Democratic Party... great strategy.

[Windy]

18. Note: acting assistant attorney general. Is he staying assistant AG?

And also, the decision was made by the justice department, not the white house. They are supposed to be separate and independent. (or used to be before Bush)

[annabanana]

70. I can't find much about Michael Hertz.

The article above call's him "Obama's acting asst atty gen"

[AZ Criminal JD]

295. The Justice Dept. is not independent of the White House

It never has been. Please read your Constitution.

[customerserviceguy]

21. I was criticized for saying so a few weeks ago

but I still maintain that there will be NO prosecution of Bush and his cronies over anything that happened in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Gitmo. There may be a few facts that are embarassing to Bushco that emerge from Congressional hearings, but nothing much will come of them, except a few more low-level scapegoats will lose jobs, promotions, etc.

Clearly, President Obama just wants to "move on".

[acmavm]

321. Yeah, and I've been right there with ya.

[Fly by night]

23. Would someone please post some more cuddly pictures of Obama here ...

... so we can get back to the central theme of DU these days (getting all googly-eyed and such).

WTF indeed.

[Ellipsis]

36. Truly disappointing.

Hope public opinion brings this to quick conclusion as to what's going to happen on the 23rd.

No more delays.

[flyarm]

159. why dissapointing??????? FISA remember that???

How about renditions????????

and Gitmo????????

and NAFTA???????

how about Nominations being bought ?????????

How about eliminating two states primaries???????

not dissapointing to me..its exactly what I anticipated..exactly!!

In fact it is what many of us .."older folks" warned all the younger folks about ..only to be called names and be shouted down!

let me add TO that: this stimulus bill..Veteran HEALTH benefits have been cut!

and Active Duty military health benefits have been cut..you read that right..ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY!!

http://soldiersmind.com/2009/01/07/proposed-tricare-cuts-could-cause-problems-for-military-families-and-retirees/

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=4305

[Divine Discontent]

192. shh... some are too busy fawning over the beach photos of O.

this really pisses me off, and the only, and I mean ONLY way out of this is that he's doing this to get the pig to spill the beans on B&sh and/or Cheney - but the thing is - this was done by a B*sh appointee, so they knew what was going on? If this is a chess game, I don't like it - because in the case of all the sick effed up things the B*sh admin. has done, I would just flip over the fucking chess board and march them off to prison! :mad:

[flyarm]

199. shhh back atcha!!..O said while campaigning Bush never did anything

to warrant any hearings..something to that effect..O will never go after any of them and count on this fact..they will all resurface again in our government..they always do..case in point..Kissinger being sent to the middle east by O..only a short time ago..gives me warm cockles to the heart..and Holbrook, and Mitchell..

another recyle bin opened up from the ant hill!

those who ignore history only repeat it because of ignorance!..wake up Americans you have been bamboozled.

[Divine Discontent]

202. you should consider making an OP about him sending Kissinger to the middle east

I'm not old enough to have been alive during his hey day, but these people being put into a position like O did with Kissinger is quite ridiculous - this is not CHANGE - this is the farthest thing from it. I recall O saying there will be reviews and such, but I also remember him saying he didn't believe B*sh did ANYTHING illegal or such - and my only hope is that he said that to make sure he made it to inaug day. I so hope he has somehting up his sleeve in regards to the war criminals who are sitting on this nations gold, if you will, to the tune of about 5 trillion I'd guess, and I don't know how one would go about the best way to round them all up and present the evidence to the courts, but damn, I hope he's doing it - they're a threat to the USA, to the current gov't and I want to believe O will do something about them...

I can still dream. ;)

[flyarm]

207. people dreaming is what got us here..open a history book ..keep looking for truth

you are on the right tract..but don't dream , educate yourself..don't stay in denial..there are no two parties anymore..there is one party with one big money pot in the middle, and the crooks are sometimes on both sides, every American has a responsibility to the constitution and to guard that constitution..it is not done by looking the other way when "My guy" shits all over it!

You have a responsibility to hold everyone who is our employee accountable..they all get their checks from our checkbook..it is incumbent on all of us to watch each and everyone who sits in our congress and our White House..no matter what party. No one should get a free pass and denial does not exonerate your responsibility , nor does dreaming for a perfect world..itis not perfect..

Democracy is an Idea..a very fragile one..and it is all ofour responsibility to know who we are suportting and why and to investigate all their campaign slogans and bullshit. Hopey change does not fullfull our obligations nor our responsibility.

[Divine Discontent]

210. agreed. and giving great speeches doesn't swoon me to ignore decisions, and I certainly will voice

my disgust if I see a bad one, even if some of the O supporters, who borderline on obsession, don't like it. I believe he wants to be a great president, and like he said, he wants to hear from people - let's make sure he keeps getting our letters and calls (everyone!).

best...

[readmoreoften]

302. But... but...

He said pretty things. He said to believe in him. You mean...no...could it be he is a... (no) politician?

Hey! That's our President you're slandering! He has a plan! He is a GENIUS. The plan is as follows... Drug Rove, hire a hypnotist to make him love a particular dog and have him believe he's had said dog since he was a boy. Hire a vet to simulate an illness in Rove's 50 year old dog, have a Democrat casually remark that he has a friend who has an experimental treatment that can save Rove's dog's life. Then get the hypnotist to implant memories in every person who has ever known Rove, making them falsely remember he has a dog. Stage an elaborate rescue of Rove's dog by the Democrat. Pay the press to run the story of a reconciliation between Rove and Democrats. If Rove doesn't go along with it, implant the idea that he likes Democrats. Run heartwarming stories about how Rove's dog made it to 50, complete with actors pretending to be veterinary biologists. Marginalize all who say dogs can't live until 50 and call them conspiracy theorists. Sell bio-extended pets (when the pet dies, have a secret agent replace the pets with lookalikes. (Or even better, fuck it, it won't be a real publicity problem for another decade anyway...) Take all the money from bio-extended pets and fix the economy. Then, the Obama presidency will be SO POPULAR it will have the "mandate" to be able to put Bush and Cheney in jail whether or not Rove complies.

Come on. Something like this is SO MUCH BETTER than just crackin' down and doing the right thing. (Well, at least it can't fail any worse than bank bailouts.)

:sarcasm:

[bertman]

239. flyarm, you summed it up beautifully. Thank you.

". . . there is one party with one big money pot in the middle, and the crooks are sometimes on both sides"

I also like your analogy to U.S. taxpayers holding their employees accountable.

[Ellipsis]

212. Just want Karl in the hot seat on the 23rd with no restrictions that's it. EOM

[TechBear_Seattle]

25. Yeah, "change" we can believe in n/t

[Sanity Claws]

26. Don't take this at face value

Something is going on behind the scenes. Yesterday Rove's attorney said he will not assert executive privilege or 5th Amendment privilege against self-incrimination.
Obama has something up his sleeve that we haven't figured out.

[MNDemNY]

31. Yea right.

:crazy:

[atreides1]

59. Sort of Like

"Keeping our powder dry", that kind of behind the scenes thing?

[bertman]

244. If he told us, it wouldn't be "behind the scenes" would it?

We can only hope that is the correct interpretation.

Based on President Obama's previous equivocation on the Bush investigation idea, I am not filled with HOPE.

[datasuspect]

60. bull-fucking-shit

[Jester Messiah]

86. You're right, everything is -exactly- as it appears on the surface, forever and always.

Did the lobotomy hurt?

[No Elephants]

132. Oh, please. It's the people who are always convinced that Obama never does anything

wrong that have had the lobotomy. Or drunk the Kool-Aid. Or whichever cliche you prefer.

[Donnachaidh]

135. you tell us n/t

[Sal Minella]

81. "Yesterday Rove's attorney said he will not assert executive privilege or 5th Amendment privilege

or 5th Amendment privilege against self-incrimination."

If this is true, then the hotheads among us (including me) need to chill and wait to see what happens, indeed. Yes.

The Justice Department is not acting at the bidding of the White House, here.

[polmaven]

87. Thank you....

Everyone is so quick to negative reactions on things like this. I think we just need to calm down a little, and give this a chance to play out.

We don't know WHAT the "compromise" might be, nor are we privy to what is being discussed. Let's not let the MSM determine our immediate reactions. Lets see where it is going first.

There will be plenty of time for outrage when it is over.

[MNDemNY]

103. When it's over, it's too late.

[polmaven]

114. How do you KNOW that?

Have you been sitting in on the meetings? We do not know what is being planned. All we know is what the media is telling us. Let's just cool off, and SEE what is in the minds of those involved before we go off on a rant half cocked.

[lame54]

105. The word "compromise" is what's unacceptable - What is acceptable?...

THIS!!

[No Elephants]

134. Obama has a master plan that will be revealed at the appropriate time--which may be

never. Until then, just disregard anything that looks bad for him.

Oh, please.

[polmaven]

144. I never said to "just disregard"

anything that looks bad for him. I said let's slow down a little, and give things a chance to play out before we go off the deep end.

On this particular issue, we have very little actual knowledge of what is going on, and we need to have more information before deciding that President Obama is unfit for office! That's all I'm saying!

If it indeed turns out that he is stalling in order to let everything be blown off, then our outrage will be appropriate. But until we know that for sure, a lot of the accusations I'm seeing in this thread are very premature.

[No Elephants]

156. And the down side of expressing disagreement to whitehouse.gov is what? Why take a chance

and remain silent until it even MAY be too late?

[polmaven]

193. Expressing your opinion is perfectly natural...

Some of the vitriol being expressed in this thread is, however, WAY over the top.

[No Elephants]

111. Ah, yes. The famous "Obama is twenty steps ahead of everyone at DU" gambit.

[MNDemNY]

169. We are all lowly peons. We should sit down and shut up. he knows what is best.

[bahrbearian]

182. He only wants our votes, not our opinions.

[Marrah_G]

172. OFFS- do you really believe what you are saying?

[AyanEva]

27. I love you Obama, but I must disagree with this.

Strongly. *cracks fingers* Time to write an email or two, I think. Unacceptable.

[rateyes]

28. Well, the ball is in Conyer's court now, which means

that the extension will be granted. Conyers, in the end, almost always wimps out.

I hope Conyers finally gets fed up and says he won't delay the hearing any longer. After all, Congress IS SUPPOSED to be a co-equal branch of the government.

[flyarm]

177. WHICH means more of the same ..nothing but blow hards! eom

[s-cubed]

29. Write the white house!

I just wrote the White House with my optinion on this. You can too.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

[bdamomma]

41. thanks will do, can't keep silent on this one.

[flyarm]

179. would that letter go on top of the millions of other letters there before us?????

you know all those thousands of letters i have written for 8 years now???????

Would this top all the letters about starting a war based on lies, or a real investigation of 9/11 , or how about rendition flights? or torture??????? or the FISA wiretapping????? or say NAFTA or corporations hiring offshore????? Or Obama changing his stance on FISA or NAFTA, or Rendition flights, or Gitmo??????

Please tell me what pile this letter will go on?

and will I get one of those cute little letters that they are oh so happy I took time out of my busy day to write them?..and that they will get back to me after its gone to committee???????

Oh please..save your precious time!

At least you gave me my first chuckle of the day!!

[bertman]

245. What's an "optinion"? I need to know before I write the White House, otherwise I

might get it wrong.


:evilgrin:

[chill_wind]

30. Two more weeks to buy time? Fine. Then Investigate. Or obstruct and condone.

And Obama and Democrats will get what we deserve in four years when they steal another one.

[StillHopingForChange]

33. Just sent an email...

Hoping this changes, but not counting on it.

[Ticonderoga]

35. I'm really beginning

to regret my support for Mr. Obama. This is nothing different than waht was shoved up our asses for the 8 year's of the * administration.

[windbreeze]

127. and you would have elected......who??

just curious....I had written my thoughts...but decided I am too cowardly to post them at this time....I would like to understand exactly what the hell is going on though....maybe all elected officials are afraid that if * and Cheney are taken down, if all the crooked shit is exposed....it will take down the whole government??? wb

[No Elephants]

136. Crap like Rove is what has come damn close to ruining America. We MUST do whatever we can to

stop it. Write whitehouse.gov, your Senators and your Representative and protest.

[Hoopla Phil]

38. The Presidents club is a very exclusive club.

It will be protected above all other concerns first. Do you recall all the freepers going nuts when Shrub didn't go after President Clinton? Same deal.

[MNDemNY]

43. Was Clinton fixing elections and torturing people?

I missed that.

[Hoopla Phil]

122. I'm referring to the freeper claims of war crimes for

the bombing of the aspirin factory.

[rusty fender]

48. Hellow--Clinton was impeached!

The first chance these Repubs get to impeach Obama will be in2010 when the House goes Repub. Why will it go Repub? Because Obama will have further thrown the rest of the progressives under the bus.

[MNDemNY]

51. self delete. My bad.

[Hoopla Phil]

123. See post 122

[No Elephants]

116. Please. NO comparison AT ALL. Clinton was impeached over a frickin' bj that was

nobody's business, except his, Momica's and Hillary's. Dummya is getting away with, among many other things, deceiving the American people into a a war and committing war crimes. Murder. Literally, murder.

[Hoopla Phil]

125. See post 122 for what I was referring to.

[No Elephants]

145. It doesn't matter. Your mistake is thinking it matters if they impeached him for Y, not X. What

matters is that they impeached him. The grounds are immaterial. The aspirin factory was a dumb mistake, not a calculated plot by an entire administration to convince Congress and America that we had to go to war immediately or be killed in our sleep. Or that we had to do violate the 4th Amendment or be killed in our sleep. Or that we had to torture people to death or be killed in our sleep. Etc.

Again, NO comparison. NONE. Starr's mission was to impeach and humiliate Clinton, not to get him for a bj, but tnot the aspirin factry.. That was one mission the rethugs actually did accomplish.

Don't get hung up on details. Starr sure didn't

[Hoopla Phil]

151. I'm not talking about impeachment. I've not said anything about impeachment

I said that the freepers were wanting investigations of President Clinton after Shrub was selected. Impeachment NEVER came into ANYTHING I was talking about. I am not going to discuss the merits of the aspirin factory being a mistake or otherwise as that is not germain to what I am trying to convey.

The fact is that the President Club is going to be protected, period.

[No Elephants]

161. You need to stop focusing on the aspirin factory. You're missing the forest for the tree. Clinton

got investigated for years, to the tune of about $72 million. And he got impeached. So far, Dummya has gotten nothing but kid glove treatment by both Congress and Obama. NO COMPARISON.

[Hoopla Phil]

166. I'm not focusing on the aspirin factory. This is not about Clinton. This is about the

President's Club. It is a very exclusive club and will be protected at all costs. I've NEVER mentioned impeachment of Clinton and I don't know why you are stuck on that because it has NOTHING to do with this. My reference to the Freepers wanting Clinton investigated after Shrub was selected (note this is AFTER Clinton left office so impeachment AGAIN has nothing to do with this) was only to highlight that the President's Club will be protected no matter what party is in the office.

[my3boyz]

339. No. He was impeached for lying about the the bj. nt

[chill_wind]

40. And btw, Obama is also trying to push back the release of key OLC torture memos.

for at least another three months until they can be studied some more.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8202701&mesg_id=8202899

These two issues together are the mother of all Pandora's boxes.

Taken altogether, it might be simple to conclude that the Obama DOJ just simply does not have their shit together yet in any form.

[MNDemNY]

45. Or, that nothing will be done. More likely.

[chill_wind]

65. The eventual decisions either way will be very revealing ones.

And they are coming up fast. I'm hoping it's a matter of time needed to brace for the immense upheaval. Once those genies are out of the bottle, they can't be put back in. In a very strong sense, they already are. But I hope the action taken on the very recent extraordinary renditions/torture case (Jeppesen DataPlan) is not an omen of things to come. The DOJ did not ask for delay or review on that one. Panetta's statements about CIA war criminal prosecutions weren't very reassuring either.

Investigate and prosecute. Or condone, protect and harbor domestic enemies and war criminals.

[man4allcats]

42. Okay, Mr. President. That's one.

An old farmer had a mule that pulled the farmer and his buckboard wagon to town each day. One day on their trip, the mule stopped at the bridge that crossed a stream and would go no further. After much cajoling to no avail, the farmer got out of the wagon and led the mule across by the harness. He then looked the mule in the eye and said, "That's one." The next day on their trip the same thing happened when they got to the bridge. Again, the farmer led the mule across, looked him in the eye and said, "That's two." On the third day's excursion, the mule again refused to cross the bridge. The farmer got down from the wagon, walked over to the side of the wagon path, picked up part of a large tree branch lying in the brush and smacked the mule smartly between the eyes with it. He then got back on board the wagon, jiggled the reins and the mule crossed the bridge without further hesitation. A small boy on the side of the road witnessed the incident and called out to the farmer, "Hey, mister! Why'd you do that to that mule?" The farmer replied, "First, you've got to get their attention."

Okay, Mr. President. That's one.

[No Elephants]

149. That's ONE? ONE? It's one all right. As long as you don't count the first 15 or so.

[man4allcats]

174. I know.

I was just feeling generous.

[cottonseed]

277. What was the first 15?

In your mind?

[treestar]

47. There is probably some legal procedural mumbo jumbo that

they want to figure out.

[MNDemNY]

50. B.S. Hold on to that, if it's all you got.

[treestar]

91. Anyone who has ever dealt with a legal proceeding

knows how long and drawn out and complicated it can get. The Obama Administration strikes me as one that wants to know what they are doing. It can and does take time to figure it all out. Only immature and ignorant people expect a court to make a ruling instantly on the first application. These kinds of continuances are constantly going on every day in the law and have been for centuries. Even when you aren't in the first month of the job.

[MNDemNY]

99. Only idiots follow blindly. Follow away, my fellow DUer. I will watch the path myself.

[CJCRANE]

55. Also I think Obama

and his administration have enough on their plate to deal with right now.

They probably want to turn the economy around and make a start on world peace first before getting bogged down in a partisan battle over the Bushco legacy.

[MNDemNY]

73. Then why get into it?

[treestar]

93. Because it is not a black and white choice of not getting into it at all

and putting it as first priority and then jumping into it without reading all the pages and pages of crap that has likely already been filed.

[MNDemNY]

98. Does this not fall into..."walking and chewing gum"???

Fer crissake, must we follow blindly??

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

228. THIS is Not

about legacy.

It's about Justice.

[shadowknows69]

261. Oh, really and hows that world peace thing working out for us

Have we started the Iraq withdrawal? Stopped throwing missles into Pakistan, you know the unstable country that actually does have nuclear weapons, and how about that increase in the cannon fodder for Afghanistan? World peace is looking like a side dish to the plate, maybe even dessert if we have enough room after eating this shitburger.

[flyarm]

214. more denial pie for you??????? e,om

[Political Heretic]

52. Between this at the story I just posted its starting out to be a real shitty week.

:(

[Bluenorthwest]

53. If some are above the law

while others are ground under the heel of the law for lesser violations, this nation will have no standing to enforce anything on anyone, and will be left with force as the only way to impose the rule of selective law. In the long run, refusing to prosecute crimes of this level will destroy the country's ability to function. Rove is above the law, but a kid with a joint goes to prison? How long will that stand without violent enforcement?

[tooko13]

184. We already have that

Don't we already have violent enforcement...well I guess it
depends on how wealthy your are and what color your skin
is...Rushbo certainly wasn't treated roughly for his drug
purchasing and use, however many other are.

[Ed76638]

54. Hooray for COMPROMISE!!!!!!!!!

:eyes:

[peace13]

232. I'll compromise , Rove can have a 12x12 cell instead of the 8x8. n/t

[bitchkitty]

62. In God's name, WHY????

This is not good. This is not good at all. Leave Mr. Rove free to continue his treason? Yes, TREASON.

I'm going to the Thursday night socialist meeting in Portland. FUck this shit.

[AyanEva]

63. I just sent a looooong irate, but polite, email.

[bdamomma]

71. Send an e-mail to John Conyers too.

about this. I am sure he is not too happy either.

[AyanEva]

100. Will do! Thanks for the tip.

[debbierlus]

64. Outrageous - ILLEGAL - Wrong

[Dukkha]

66. explain this "chess move" apologists

how is consorting with criminals helping the "big picture" of his great master plan.

[MNDemNY]

69. They are a little slow on this, waiting for their talking points from the lord-god.

[Jackpine Radical]

106. Well, I'm a lukewarm chess-move theorist, but I'll stand in until

someone with the fresh talking points shows up.

Here it is:

They will offer Rove a compromise that will not suffice to let him off the hook, and that he will not be able to accept. They will thus have proved themselves flexible and willing to negotiate. Then when he refuses, they will step on him like a bug.

That is pretty much what they did to the Repuiblicans in Congress with the stimulus package.

[MNDemNY]

150. Do you really hold they view that we stepped on the rebuplicans in congress "like a bug"?

How? By giving into their demands for more tax cuts, and removing the school construction moneys? Yup, just like a bug.

[Jackpine Radical]

208. The squishing part isn't done yet.

[No Elephants]

152. They never explain it. They just say it. However, if there is ever a pot of gold

at the end of some pile of crap--like Warren having a nice conversation with Melissa Etheridge--they will decide after the fact that Obama intended it all along. It's such a joke.

[MNDemNY]

171. to question is blasphemy.

[shadowknows69]

262. I think it's the "knock the board and pieces onto the floor" chess strategy

[The Backlash Cometh]

68. WTF?

[BlueJac]

74. Same old shit, letting the criminals go!!

[bdamomma]

77. and they will re group if we don't hold them accountable.

[bdamomma]

75. Send e-mails to both Obama and John Conyers.

no matter what we must let this one go.

[No Elephants]

167. And to your own Senators and Representative.

[flyarm]

217. whipeeeeeee the Conyers piles of letters gets bigger!!

I remember a hearing Conyers had with Clint Curtis..about stealing elections..when Clint got up to speak ..risking his life no less..Conyers got up and went pee pee..and deliberately missed all of Clints testimony.

Please don't count on Conyers..you will be waiting forever ..

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Wizard777]

78. Congress is taking baby steps on this. Rove does not have to testify. He does have to show up

or he does have to go to jail. Obama also cannot expect Congress to dilute their subpoena power. As long as Obama isn't planning on doing anything illegal. He doesn't need the super secrecy for what he promised would be a transparent administration. If we wanted more of the same we could have voted Mc Cain.

[Kindigger]

83. Grrrr

:grr:

[Bette Noir]

84. Our Barack doesn't tip his hand.

I wonder what he's planning?

[MNDemNY]

90. I'll bite, A single term?

[No Elephants]

160. Oh, no, Mr. Bill. Not another Obama chess game fantasy.

[MNDemNY]

173. pawn to king's rook 5.

[Marrah_G]

175. OOOOOO- does he have a super Secret plan??????

Do you envision him in a body suit with a big O on the chest?

Hmmm?

[L. Coyote]

95. Obama was an intern at the law firm defending the Bush criminals.

Just a fact to keep in mind.

[bahrbearian]

183. So thats what the repugs meant when they called him the Manchurian Candidate.

[kirby]

97. Let me explain...

Any political institution, including the Executive Branch, does not want to give up power.

This is why there are supposed to be Checks and Balances. This is why Congress should have impeached Bush. This is why Congress should have sent the Sgt at Arms to arrest Rove for Contempt of Congress. Once these precedents and powers are giving/taken, it is very very hard to remove them.

Hopefully, they will give 2 weeks to try to reach a compromise, and then regardless, continue.

[peace13]

101. White House telephone number...

202-456-1111

[bdamomma]

104. everyone needs to call our voices must be heard on this one.

call John Conyers office too. 202 225 5126

[OwnedByFerrets]

102. One more WTF!!!

This is utter bullshit!

[change_notfinetuning]

107. My DU name says it all . . .

That's what we wanted, voted for, and were expecting; we got the reverse. In the past few months, I think I have been blindsided more than all of the Bears quarterbacks in my entire life.

[berni_mccoy]

108. It's A DELAY, not STOPPING it. Asking for both parties to come to an agreement.

Negotiations are ongoing. If they can get Rove to testify of his own accord, then this will be a major win.

[peace13]

115. This thing has been delayed for months!

What negotiations are necessary? If any one of us did one- one millionth of what these criminals have done we would be so far down the river it wouldn't be funny! We can negotiate ourselves into nothing ever being done . In the meantime the criminals have all the time in the world to get their stories straight. I so wish that the soldiers and the Iraqi citizens that they killed had had the time. Hell they could have removed themselves from certain hell if they had...had the time. Yes let's negotiate some more.

[berni_mccoy]

118. Sure, let's jump to conclusions before reading the entire article.

2 weeks is no time at all. Obama is personally giving Rove the chance to do the right thing. And already it's paying off. Rove's attorney has signaled they are willing to have Rove testify without the 5th or exec privilege. But I bet you didn't read that part.

[peace13]

230. Excuse me but Congress has been 'dealing ' with Rove way before Obama came along.

2 weeks? How many months has Rove refused to co-operate? Your memory is worse than mine! I appreciate your condescending ways. I am sure that Obama would love you for scolding me!

[lsewpershad]

109. Huge

Disappointment. I hope our prez will explain his action.

[wundermaus]

110. Oh, Please, Say it ain't so...

President Obama, What are to thinking?

We won't tolerate a single day of delay!

We do not negotiate with Terrorists!

Throw that TRAITOR in JAIL. NOW.

[bdamomma]

113. call John Conyers too this is his Committee

202 225 5126

[flyarm]

344. my guess is you missed the time Conyers said he was going to do

impeachment hearings and then renegged..almost immediately, then got pissed at all the dems that were pissed and went to his offices and Conyers then proceeded to have people arrested..am i right?? you missed that little ditty?

Or did you miss it when Conyers had a hearing about election theft..and invited Clint Curtis , and when Clint was called to testify Conyers left the hearing to go pee pee..and missed the entire testimony!

I thought so!!

[OKNancy]

112. Anyone who wants to read the ORIGINAL story

can read it here: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/906993.html

AND Jason Leopold's article which goes into some detail. http://www.pubrecord.org/law/688.html?task=view

[bdamomma]

117. ever since yesterday they said that Rove is not under executive privilege

they are squirming to get this POS off without any charges this would be a big mistake, I hope John Conyers shows any sort of backbone and says NO postponement.

[acmavm]

119. This truly will be a deal breaker for me. No investigations, no

punishment for what they did to my country, no more democratic party as far as I'm concerned.

[OKNancy]

120. I don't believe that is what the original article said

I won't read the rawstory re-hash, but as far as I can tell things are still in the air and all they ask for as of now is a 2 week delay.

[Politicalboi]

121. We need a revolution

If Bush walks free from everything. I hope President Obama is going to be pressured from other countries not to let this go. I hope we get threatened with it.

[flvegan]

124. Okay, I'll give him his two weeks before I pass judgment.

There's a lot more to this than I think we're seeing.

If Obama does nothing about Rove, I won't be surprised. I don't expect to see any of the BFEE in jail.

That said, don't blame me. I voted for Kucinich.

[L0oniX]

10-4 on Kucinich

[Lorien]

165. I agree with you, as usual!

:hi:

[StarryNite]

128. Damn

This is really disappointing. It starts to give the tin foil hat people a lot of credibility...they are all the same, all part of the same plan.

[barbtries]

131. i think my blood pressure just rose

by 20 points. i want to scream NOOOOOO

[shadowknows69]

138. I give up

We should have just had a revolution in 2000 or 2004 and jettisoned this corrupt fucking government from the top on down, held a new Constitutional Congress and taken our fucking country back, but we would have missed too many eps of American Idol that way.

[bdamomma]

139. here's another story too. Rove needs to be brought forth.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Lawyer_Rove_wont_take_Fifth_if_0216.html

maybe we should join forces with Governor Seigelman he won't abide by this either.

[antimatter98]

141. Obama's turning out to be a BushCo front man. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

142. "(Obama) has altered the dynamics of the case" Not all that much, it seems. n/t

[mmonk]

146. Anyone still trying to justify the current Justice Department?

[BobRossi]

147. Same old shit.

New wrapper.

[ejbr]

153. Next Townhall

"President Obama, what the fuck is going on? This isn't the change we voted for."

[mod mom]

155. I implore Chairman Conyers to do what is right and hold rove accountable.

Pls join me in sending Conyers a message:

http://www.johnconyers.com/

[Dinger]

163. Hopefully Something Stronger Than A

"sternly worded letter"

[ohtransplant]

157. Not really surprising.

When a president grabs all the power he can and "expands" the power of the presidency, it's difficult for a subsequent president to voluntarily absolve themselves of said powers. He/She might need them one day you know. This is one of the biggest dangers of the presidential power grab.

It's time for some tough love from Congress. The President isn't infallible - even if he's a Dem.

[MadHound]

178. Do you actually expect for this Congres to administer some "tough love"?

The same Congress who couldn't strong arm more than three 'Pugs to vote for the stimulus? The Congress led by "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi?

Please, this is going to be quietly swept under the rug, just as they did with Watergate, Iran/Contra and every other modern day scandal. At best, there will be one or two people who get high profile punishment, but the masterminds behind all this shit, Cheney, Rove, Rummy et. al. they're going to walk.

Welcome to the two party/same corporate master system of government.

[ohtransplant]

195. I'm not placing bets but recent history says they won't.

So... if they don't they'll remain just as impotent in relation to the executive branch. I believe that's bad for democracy, our government and our country.

I don't believe I expressed any confidence in their ability to muster a spine. It's my opinion that that's what it would take to wrestle power from the executive. If it doesn't happen, it's all our loss of course.

[daggahead]

162. I think Valerie Plame would have liked a compromise as to when/if she was outed as a CIA agent. n/t

[1620rock]

189. The more anything changes, the more it stays the same.

[valerief]

180. Just take the Cipro and say FU you to Rove, Mr. Prez! nt

[Imagevision]

181. Obama has stated campaigning that there would be things you're not all going to agree with...

however, most speak I speak with agree that to fully understand how this country got where it's at today - it must know how we got here. - It appears Obama believes it would be disadvantageous for his supporters to know the plain and simple truth about the Bush administrations because of very possible legal proceedings to be brought against some of those involved in Bushco.
I hope Obama starts hearing flak about his decision to preferably look forward and not look back into the past
we are not fucking sheeple!!!

[ooglymoogly]

194. Its that ambiguous "preferable" that gums up the argument and turns it into something less than .......

Honorable. preferable means; I would prefer; If the law allows. Well the Law does not allow, period and that is about as clear as anything can be. Beyond that O is courting a surprisingly unbelievable and totally unacceptable lie and expecting us to swallow it.

[ooglymoogly]

185. I agree...this is not acceptable.

O is getting a little too comfortable with the criminal elements in DC. and the criminality of the last admin. This is a clear indication that he will stop at nothing to protect the thugs of the last admin. The meaning of this is that he lied when he said that anything clearly criminal would be prosecuted. An out and out lie. A thorough investigation by congress (doing their job) could and most likely would blow the lid off the * admin and force prosecution on an unprecedented level, something O is trying to block at any cost to himself and his reputation and legacy...why? The why's have been piling up on O to the point of disbelief and mistrust of his integrity. Change? more like same ol' same ol' but a slightly kinder, gentler form of same ol' where the common folks are paid off to stay asleep and the ruling class is blatantly above the law and we the people have to abide by unfair and onerous laws that corp-world has written into the penal system that has put many folks in corp-prisons for literally nothing, sometimes for life. Shame on you Obama, we trusted you.

[ronnie624]

186. Lol.

The Machine will always defend itself from scrutiny by those over which it rules. The stakes for the Elite are much too high.

It isn't really Obama's fault. He is now an integral part of something much larger and more powerful than he will ever be.

Sooner or later The Machine must be dismantled or it will destroy us all.

[veganlush]

191. Beyond complaining about this..(it's theriputic) we really need to..

..as sarah has mentioned, write the Whitehouse and tell 'em how you feel, if we all do it it'll have more impact, and take a few minutes daily to call your congressman and bitch...[phone] is the congressional switchboard. A snail mail to the whitehouse wouldn't hurt either...

[The Hope Mobile]

196. Could it be that he's only trying to hold off so he can push as much of his agenda through

as possible before getting even MORE opposition from the repukes? Won't Rove testifying just raise their hackles even more. I ABSOLUTELY want to see these guys prosecuted in every possible way but I also want meaningful and quick change in health care, global warming, education, etc., and the only excuse I can up with for this is that he sees how difficult they're already being and it won't get easier if Rove testifies right away. Lets get some business done and then prosecute?!?!? Just a wild guess. I don't like it either though.

[flyarm]

205. B.S. and more denial of facts!

[The Hope Mobile]

218. Actually I didn't deny anything . . . I understand your frustration. I'm extremely frustrated about

this too and already sent communication to that affect, however, I don't deserve your insult. I'm only trying to explore possible motivations for delaying. As I said, I'm not happy about it.

[napoleon_in_rags]

241. That's my guess too. He's avoiding a media circus.

Which is what this would become. The right way to do this is make a long, drawn out investigation without fireworks and drama. That also allows people to take the time to see what really happened.

[Hippo_Tron]

337. It's really a catch 22

Holding the previous administration accountable for their crimes and running a country are two very important things. Unfortunately it is very difficult if not impossible to run a country while you are prosecuting your political opponents for crimes that boil down to abuses of power, something that the public doesn't even fully understand to be crimes. I think that most of the non-conspiracy theorist contingent of DU would do what Obama is doing if they were in his position.

That doesn't make prosecuting those who broke the law any less important. But it makes it difficult, to say the least.

[niyad]

201. this is completely unacceptable, and I don't give a damn what the reasoning is. NONE of the bastard

from that lying, thieving, murderous bunch needs to be given ANY consideration whatsoever.

VERY disappointing, dear Mr. President, as was your comment along the lines of not wanting to seek investigations into that bunch.

[cottonseed]

203. Is this thread a puma reunion?

This story is crap and the most active reactionary posters on this thread should be remembered for it. Pathetic worms. Do some god damn research before spouting off.

[mmonk]

206. Link to your research?

[cottonseed]

223. It's here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=132

Look for the archives of posts stating that Obama approves of torture, any Warren thread, topics with juvenile DUers throwing their hands up because he'd met with Republicans, or just about any locked thread where you see the majority of posts recycling puma greatest hits, "meet the new boss...", "this isn't change we can believe in", "stop the hero-worship". It's the same crap every day and it's always wrong. Beauty of the internet is the shit gets buried and these people come back again right on cue gargling and spitting back up the latest warped headline and are never called on it. I find it tiring, annoying, and I'd like to see it stop.

[mmonk]

225. I thought you had something that challenges the validity of the Raw

Story article.

[cottonseed]

234. No, but like an old man watching a kid cry at a spilled ice cream cone...

I've come to see that the initial reaction to a fragmented story is for every whining DUer to come out with their best Obama zinger. In the end there's more to the story, just as that kid will end up with another ice cream cone.

It's the smug and pissy I told you so reactions that annoy the hell out of me. If Obama personally steps in to allow Rove off this easily then there better be a damn good reason for it, and I'll be pretty pissed off regardless of the reason. But one thing I'm not going to do is come out yelling and screaming about it based on some initial story.

Well, here's something:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3742673&mesg_id=3743370

I'm not going to hitch my wagon to it... but there will be more coming out.

[mmonk]

327. Missed that one.

It was removed before I could see what it was

[roguevalley]

249. they asked for proof that this story is wrong. supply it or retract your

ire.

[cottonseed]

256. Can I retract my ire later?

That's kind of my point. My ire is directed towards the rabid reaction to an initial report.

The story is sensationalist. We've seen it a thousand times on these boards. Personally, I'm going to be watching this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8203431&mesg_id=8203431

[mmonk]

266. And I ask a legitimate question in that thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8203431&mesg_id=8204564

[cottonseed]

274. I see that. I'd like to see more legitimate questions.

And some sensible answers. That's what I really want to see.

[ElboRuum]

269. I could not agree with you more.

Let's have some facts before we start crying that the world is ending. Geez. I'm really kind of tragically amused that I have to tell people this.

[OwnedByFerrets]

220. Show your proof that this story is crap. Or stfu.

[cottonseed]

222. Read this link and i'll be back in a couple days to check up on it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3742673&mesg_id=3743326

I'll be proved right and this will be another example of the victim wing of the democratic party jumping up and down about something as shallow as a rawstory headline.

[fascisthunter]

240. refute the article

try not to make this personal, for it will deliberately side-step the content of the article posted.

[cottonseed]

243. Sorry. I can't take the article at face value.

Therefore I can't refute it. I am confident there will be more information coming.

And please don't come at me with some nonsense put down. Refuting this article is like refuting the article that came out the other day stating Obama supported torture. It was crap in the beginning and after a day enough information came out that most would agree Obama wasn't personally pushing for torture.

[fascisthunter]

251. well, I certainly hope you are right, but by not refuting this article

or not being able to, casts more doubt on you than on the article itself. Who knows... maybe this is another article (weather balloon) to see how people react. We will see...

[Ticonderoga]

312. How noble of you sir

To back up your rediculous rant with a useless link.

[cottonseed]

313. Thank you.

[cottonseed]

221. It's here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=132

Look for the archives of posts stating that Obama approves of torture, any Warren thread, topics with juvenile DUers throwing their hands up because he'd met with Republicans, or just about any locked thread where you see the majority of posts recycling puma greatest hits, "meet the new boss...", "this isn't change we can believe in", "stop the hero-worship". It's the same crap every day and it's always wrong. Beauty of the internet is the shit gets buried and these people come back again right on cue gargling and spitting back up the latest warped headline and are never called on it. I find it tiring, annoying, and I'd like to see it stop.

[defendandprotect]

209. It looks like we need to clean out the DOJ and before we can MoveOn with

holding Rove accountable and like any other citizen responding to subpeona.

[wroberts189]

213. OK JUST WAIT..... EASY NOW....

yes he has some explaining to do.

But what the hell is going on? I do not know but this is not like Obama and flies in the face of his campaign promises.

I want to hear him talk about it. And he will be asked....

You never know what is going on behind the scenes ...there has to be a method to this madness.

[libodem]

215. his testimony

will sound just like, Gonzales, "I don't remember", "I can't recall", "I don't know". He should be convicted on circumstantial evidence and not allowed to lie in his own behalf. Yeah, that's what I think.

[road2000]

216. Same old story.

It doesn't matter whether we read the Raw Story version, or the Miami Herald version, this quote is in both:

"The inauguration of a new president has altered the dynamics of this case and created new opportunities for compromise rather than litigation," Hertz wrote in the brief dated Friday. "At the same time, there is now an additional interested party - the former president - whose views should be considered."

This is pretty clear. And we STILL have people making excuses for the Obama Justice Department?

Is that tiny voice screaming in the wilderness that of Don Siegelman, who's being so ill-served?

[2QT2BSTR8]

219. I have to agree with Obama on this one. At least for time being.

Do I want to see Bushco take up the bum for what they did to this country? Hell yes! However, we have WAY to much other shit on our tables right now to be dealing with Bush. Lets get through the current ordeal and revisit the issue in 2010.

[mmonk]

227. Why?

The Justice Department has no other function except the rule of law.

[flyarm]

284. there is nothing more important than THE RULE OF LAW and

our constitution.

period!

[rosesaylavee]

224. Bigger fish to fry perhaps? n/t

[shadowknows69]

259. There is no bigger fish than restoring the rule of law in this country

Without that basic tenet secure we are a joke. A dictatorship masquerading as a republic.

[jmowreader]

226. Depends on how they're going to use this compromise

It's possible they're going to find a way KKKarl walks as a way of "mending" the country, which would do precisely the opposite.

It's also possible they found some significant shit on the guy even we don't know about, and they need two more weeks to get it into shape.

[riverdeep]

229. Post 112 contains links that goes into more detail.

The basic gist of it seems to be, that Obama is trying to gain some time to see what role he can play (also maybe tactically delaying Republican pushback at a critical time i.e. stimulus package), and deciding how much executive privilege he himself should give up.

Bush said that executive privilege extends to people like Rove and Meirs and that it extends past the term of office. Last summer, a judge said, no, Meirs has to testify, but it was put on appeal making the decision pushed till Bush got out of office.

This part here is where the crux of the matter seems to lie:

"The President is very sympathetic to those who want to find out what happened," Craig said. "But he is also mindful as President of the United States not to do anything that would undermine or weaken the institution of the presidency. So, for that reason, he is urging both sides of this to settle."

Obama’s position suggests he may support some form of executive privilege as asserted by ex-President Bush over Rove’s testimony. Gregg’s office would not elaborate on his statement.

http://www.pubrecord.org/law/688.html?task=view

I am not ready to jump down onto Obama just yet, catching the Bush gang is like holding a greased hog-it's very tricky. They need to play it carefully and dot every 'i' and cross every 't'. What I am worried about is if he plans not to spring a well designed trap on the gang, but merely to quietly push it under the rug in order to 'look forward not back'. That lack of accountability is what gave us these monsters in the first place.

Keep an eye on this...

[bdamomma]

233. I wonder what Conyers is going to say about all this, he has been

trying to get Rove for 2 years.

[glinda]

231. ROVE is 200% untrustworthy and 400% dangerous. If this is true I am super upset and concerned.

[NoodleyAppendage]

235. FUCK THIS BULLSHIT. Rove must pay!! NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW. Goddamn it!

Sorry for the shouting, but I have never been so incensed in my life. Rove is a SCUMBAG who pissed on our Constitution and broke the law. WTF! Why do we even persist in having a Justice Department if those in power can continue to break the law and get away with it because persuing them criminally is "inconvenient"???

This is COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

J

[Ellipsis]

236. Nailed it! n/t

[robinlynne]

237. WTF is right!

[Joey Liberal]

246. I'm Very Disappointed nt

[mdmc]

247. ditto

[freemarketer6]

250. We were all duped: it becomes progressively more clearer

every day. I am becoming more and more alarmed. I cannot believe I gave so much money to a man who is now knowingly and wantonly advocating the non-charging of the biggest criminal in the Bush White House.

[firedupdem]

300. LOL!!!

:rofl:

[fascisthunter]

252. now that'll win more votes for the democratic party

this better be BS.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

253. Obama said it and reiterated - he didn't feel that prosecuting Bush and his cronies was a...

priority. I guess this pretty much says it all.

[wroberts189]

271. but he also said if laws were broken they would be investigated. nt

[rudy23]

280. Usually the investigation is how you find out laws were broken.

Basically Obama is saying he has to have smoking gun evidence to do anything, and you know Bushco is not dumb enough to have left that behind.

I think Obama's trying to worm his way out of doing anything, with that flimsy rationale.

[Cleita]

255. Why would any President want to give up any privileges acquired by the

previous President? I'm not surprised and knew this would happen. This is why it was imperative to get them impeached before they left office. Thank you so much Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid for being corporate, political shills and not doing your duty when it was needed. History will judge everyone in this era harshly, I believe. Of course that will do nothing to bring back the lives of those who died unnecessarily, nor change the lives of those whose lives have been unnecessarily ruined.

[ananda]

268. Exactly. The imperial presidency..

.. is a force with a helluvalotta
self-interest and co-option of power.

It will not become less imperial on
its own.

[FriendlyReminder]

258. Come on already. The longer you wait, the less people are going to care.

[leftofthedial]

263. If Obama protects the bush criminals, he should be impeached.

[shadowknows69]

265. Fucking A, we were promised a return to the rule of law

[cottonseed]

273. Who's going to impeach him? Reid, Pelosi, Feinstein, Rockefeller?

He's in a pretty shitty situation considering the entire Dem leadership was complicit.

[leftofthedial]

278. no one.

the entire lot is corrupt to the bone, else they would have gone after bush before he left office.

[Lorien]

305. It seems that you're right. More and more it looks as if it's all just

one giant conspiracy to keep the ruling elite in power while keeping the rest of us powerless and desperate.

[leftofthedial]

319. welcome to the brave new world

[D23MIURG23]

267. I think he wants very strict message control right now.

So that he can rope-a-dope the Republicans.

At least thats the arguement I've heard that I want to be true. He is going to lose me if he takes justice off the table.

[quickesst]

272. Sounds like a lot of people here....

...need to find a new party, or start their own. Heck. look how well the Green Party is doing. Thanks.
quickesst

[yodermon]

275. The only sense I can make of this (and it's mostly wishful thinking) is this:

1) They're actually trying to flip Rove against Darth or Shithead but hell, we supposedly went through this weeellll over 24 business hours ago;

2) This quote in the McClatchy article:

Meanwhile, a special prosecutor is investigating what role White House officials had in the firings and whether their involvement constituted a crime.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/62290.html

Perhaps they don't want Rove's Congressional testimony to interfere with any actual prosecutions that result from this special prosecutor's office.

Waiting for Emptywheel's take on this. For now though this is highly disappointing and the luster is beginning to wear off.

Also -- aren't there other full-bore Contempt of Congress citations that are pending for Rove, Mier's et. al.? Are they tied up in court?

[ncteechur]

285. Um...Before you all jump to conclusions, why don't you wait until you know the facts.

A lot of you all seem to be suffering from pre-mature ejectulation--freaking always ready to eject somebody over a single story. How about get the whole story before you impeach President Obama?

[HughMoran]

325. Hahahaha!!!!

Just the weekly DU jackoff - this one is a real DUzy though - first time I've seen calls for Obama's impeachment.

Just consider it entertainment.

[Danger Mouse]

286. This looks bad but I'll wait to hear more information before jumping to conclusions.

I'd like to believe that President Obama has a good reason for this.

[choie]

290. I'm going to cry

[Bluebear]

291. 'an effort was underway to find a "compromise" for Rove'

Lovely.

[edc]

292. Shit

:-( Obviously, the oath of office Obama took with his hand on Lincoln's Bible, before his God and millions of witnesses means no more to him that it did to George Bush. It is time to accept the fact that the United States no longer exists as a constitutional republic and will never be restored to one until the present corporate aristocracy and their political henchmen are overthrown. We have reached the point where support for either party of this duopoly aids and abets a de facto fascist state. Don't tell the kids.

[earth mom]

294. Fuck this shit! This is what Obama calls hope & change?! WTF?!

:grr:

[harmonicon]

297. bullshit

how many of you fuckers now wish you'd voted Kucinich?

[Danger Mouse]

322. Bwahahaha.

[firedupdem]

329. LOL!!!! Suck them sour grapes! n/t

[Paulaguyon]

298. Why the surprise? Didn't Obama defend Boeing against the torture victims?

Last week?

[Jefferson23]

299. From the above article:

"But he is also mindful as president of the United States not to do anything that would undermine or weaken the institution of the presidency. So, for that reason, he is urging both sides of this to settle."


Not to do anything that would UNDERMINE or WEAKEN the institution of the presidency???

This statement has me very concerned, I don't like what this appears to say at all. It appears to me, and I am willing to hear other opinions on this, but it seems to spell out a desire to hold onto a level of executive privilege as the Bush Regime has defined it. A settlement would not negate the broadening of that privilege for Obama should he ever decide to use it in the future.

[flyarm]

309. since when do we "SETTLE" WITH POSSIBLE CRIMINALS?

don't we follow the rule of law..I do believe innocent till proven guilty..but one must have a trial to find the innocence or guilt of someone of breaking the rule of law..you don't settle that..you go through the process to determine innocence or guilt.

I can see it now..the bank robber, or the person who breaks into your house says..can't we settle this??????? Rove settled, why can't I??????

Our laws were written for all of us , not some of us.

We are a nation predicated on rule of law..or it used to be..until * and now O???????

This disgusts me...but I can not say I am surprised , I am not.

Why did Obama send Kissinger to the Middle East..Nixons crook...someone answer that?????????

[pam4water]

301. I second the WTF.

[santamargarita]

304. Fuck this goddamn shit - I'm done with all of them!

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Crabby Appleton]

307. Na na na na NA na

[santamargarita]

311. And fuck that goddamn lard ass too!

There will be justice!

[Vattel]

310. maybe Obama seeks a compromise

because he thinks it will make it more likely that Rove will provide useful testimony. I don't yet see any solid evidence of an attempt to protect Rove from anything.

[EndElectoral]

314. This is unacceptable. Just friggin unacceptable.

[wordpix]

318. Obama should have learned with the stym that negotiating with repukes

gets you nowhere. I hope he learned his lesson.

[pjt7]

320. If true, Obama is a traitor.

.

[CLANG]

324. I don't understand. I'm very confused. Is this really happening?

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :cry:

[Leopolds Ghost]

328. Sickening. Meanwhile Obama continues to allow spying on community activist groups in my area

"At the same time, there is now an additional interested party — the former president — whose views should be considered."

[8 track mind]

330. is there a possibility

and this is a serious question, that Obama might be going after bigger fish? Rummy? Cheney?

Rove walks in exchange in testifying against Bushco?

Something to think about.......

[IsItJustMe]

332. Looks like the left hand is washing the right hand. Hate to say it, but this stinks beyond high

heaven. I am not disappointed though. I voted for Obama having low expectacations to begin with. Politicians take care of their own. Some day people will figure that out. When we really get sick and tired of this shit in this country, then and only then will true change come.

A lot more people are going to have to be hurting in order for that to take place. We are not there yet.

[iamthebandfanman]

333. shame.

its almost as if this administration wishes to cover up for different reasons than the last...

its unfortunate we cant show our weaknesses and faults to the world.

they already know the shame they brought on our country and the world, if only we'd own up to it.

[badgervan]

334. NOOOOO!!!!!

If the pigboy gets off with some kind of "deal", I no longer work to get Dems elected. That is it.

[uponit7771]

335. KNEE JERK REACTION THREAD !!!! Please read clarification

[flyarm]

345. It is no knee jerk to ask questions and to watch what those who are our employees do

as opposed to what they say!

It is our responsibility as Americans..do you have a problem with that??????????

May I suggest you read the preamble of the constitution..please do it now as you seem unaware of what our responsibility is as Americans...to question everything!

My question is..why did Obama send Kissinger to the middle east to represent us?????? Nixons criminal is now recyled by Obama ..why?????????????? And where is the outrage today???????

and who is responsible ..us or Obama???????? Is that knee jerk??????? the man who was one of the worst criminals im my lifetime..being sent out in an envoy by a democratic(??) president??????????

I resent the hell out of that..and as I remember well when he was named by * to lead the 9/11 commission DU was lit up by the anger here about it..so now Obama sends this criminal out to represent us ..and crikets here!

Fuck that..

It is my responsibility as an American to question each and everything the people who cash my checks from my checkbook do.. in my name..got that..

If that is knee jerk to you..then I may suggest you are living in the wrong country.

There were many many republicans that said the same crap about *in 2000 and 2001 and 2003 and 2004..and on and on....you sound much the same!

Remember this ..those in office in the USA serve us..we don't serve them!
Or that is the way it is supposed to work..if not for citizens like you, who want us to question nothing!

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it..I am not repeating history..I will question everyone, I will watch everyone and i will speak out about everyone..regardless of party..or hopey changey or people who will ignore all, at the alter of one man!

History taught us that with Hitler..and many other murdering dictators..to close your eyes, and to critisize those who take their responsibility seriously to our constition, is to doom us all!

Move out of the way..the grown ups are back!

[Hippo_Tron]

336. For those asking for the chessmaster explanation...

It boils down to the fact that Obama doesn't want Rove dragged off in handcuffs for contempt of congress because that will distract the media from covering his legislative agenda. Like it or not that's what he's thinking.

[HereSince1628]

340. If it's media control...then its already time to insist the cable company

run the shows we want.

I just really don't want to believe its about controlling the media.

[deacon]

338. No excuse for this at all, none. n/t

[snappyturtle]

341. I just read a few comments linked to the Raw Story article.....people

are not happy with this situation. Neither am I. I am so fed up. The money we pay as taxpayers is going to the criminals that caused the financial mess with no investigations in sight; to automakers, I'm talking the big guys here--not the worker bees, for their brilliance of foresight; to shovel ready projects etc., which is OK BUT, the mortgage holders in trouble who are paying with the loss of homes and the subsequent displacement of their families & all that that ripples down to in their communities, are the last in line! I don't like what I'm hearing about the handling of the Gitmo detainees either or the ramping up of troops in Afghanistan. I essentially voted for President Obama because I believed he would abandon or at least substantially modify Bush policies and head us into an enlightened future. Yesterday I added up over four billion dollars going to the military, all branches, in the stimulus package!

Today's announcement about housing had better be good. I listened to Dan Rather's interview last night with Elizabeth Warren, expert on foreclosure and professor of law at Harvard. It was no holes barred. According to Elizabeth, the fix for the economy cannot happen if the mortgage problems aren't solved.

I am ready to accept that there is no change....hell, a lot of the players are still the same.

To top this all off, my dear daughter lost her biggest paying, full-time job, of her two jobs yesterday. I'm ready to call my 'kids' home and live off the land.