Cartoon Reality Check

[H2O Man]

There has been a surprising response to the NY Post's innocent political cartoon, which merely showed two policemen making a joke about the stimulus package while standing over a chimp they shot. Some people have no sense of humor.

There is no evidence that this hilarious cartoon was aimed at President Obama. Those who are invested in such conspiracy theories remind me of the same whiners who were offended by a cartoon that ran in the Dallas Morning News on the morning of 11-22-63. It was in the form of a full-page advertisement, headed with the line: "Welcome Mr. Kennedy to Dallas." It went on to ask questions about how come his administration had abandoned the US Constitution, and had taken the nation down the road to socialism/communism?

Some liberals didn't get it, and went out of their way to say the ad not only insulted President Kennedy, but also sought to incite violence. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was clearly directed to a "Mr. Kennedy," not "President Kennedy."

I, for one, can't see any difference between the NY Postal cartoon and the Dallas Morning News cartoon.

[EFerrari]

1. I don't see a difference either. It must be me. n/t

[babylonsister]

2. Whoa. I didn't know about that other cartoon.

I can't see any difference either. :scared:

[jkshaw]

80. Neither did I! Good work.

[Cha]

3. Exactly...you don't joke about

death.

[AtomicKitten]

81. Sharpton was right on talking about how this could potentially invoke violence.

I completely agree that this is and has always been about the power of suggestion, stupid people, and press irresponsibly in a potentially deadly mix. The fact that it's coming from wingnut press really is cause for concern.

This isn't good. My skin hasn't crawled like this since in the primaries Clinton referenced Bobby Kennedy's assassination.

:scared:

[Cha]

142. It doesn't take much for some

to have their feeble brains programmed and it needs to be stopped now.

The NY post wants everyone to just roll over.

[AtomicKitten]

144. I agree. This kind of ugly must be smothered in its crib from the get-go. n/t

[butterfly77]

153. Another point I noticed about the cartoon was that..

there was a shooting a few weeks ago with a police shooting a young man on the ground and people have been protesting about that for weeks now and they think that it doesn't incite violence?

[AtomicKitten]

157. excellent point

which makes this "cartoon" doubly egregious

[goclark]

169. Good point ~ as an African American I "got it" right away

The Post knew exactly what they were doing.

Perhaps we of African American heritage are able to see it in the light that we have seen it over all these years.

"Stimulus" was the only new catch word designed to let others defend it.

There is no defends for it from any African American that I have talked to --- NONE.

[unblock]

127. of course you joke about death. sometimes ya gotta laugh about it.

but killing, and in particular, assassination, THAT's not good subject matter for jokes for a number of reasons.

[bleever]

4. It only referred to the man behind the stimulus package.

Could have been anyone, right?

[fascisthunter]

5. lol... holy moly H2O... you had me for a moment

I thought I had just fallen down that rabbit hole, until I had read the third paragraph.

[CatWoman]

6. me too!!!

good thing I reread before I hit "post" :)

:hi: H20!!!

[TahitiNut]

83. (heh heh hee) Oh ye of little faith.

:rofl:

[EFerrari]

92. H2O Man has a killer deadpan.

:rofl:

[Uzybone]

7. I know, what could be correlation between a chimp

and a minority president?

Everyone knows that the chimp wrote the stimulus bill!!!!

[crikkett]

121. or between any chimp and any preznit. We just spent 8 long years calling * a chimp.

[tekisui]

8. knr!~

[JayMusgrove]

9. Why do I not understand nor appreciate any humor or satire implied here

I have four college degrees, followed the news of the last 20 years with intense interest.

So do you have a point to this thread that I missed because your satire or humor was somehow aimed at libertarians and not Democrats?

Or is it just that you are not a good writer, and have no point, or have missed the point entirely?

Perhaps you could explain for those of us with only 3 college degrees what you meant by starting this imbecilic thread.

Your way with words missed me HERE:

" to the NY Post's innocent political cartoon, which merely showed two policemen making a joke about the stimulus package while standing over a chimp they shot. Some people have no sense of humor."

The "humor" here is a two edged sword that will be used against every Democrat, how you avoided this, and ignored the reality of the American right wing nuts, and tried to say this was brilliant, well, you obviously don't really care how many people in minority groups get offended, as long as you have a super wonderful brain, capable of perfect interpretation of all innuendo.

[H2O Man]

12. Well,

I once got a 97 on a pop quiz in 7th grade English.

[JayMusgrove]

13. Keep the insults coming, you seem to be all set on.........

your intellectual superiority to make it OKAY for people to be insulted.

So much for YOUR sensitivity and humanity. Score ZERO on that as an adult.

[H2O Man]

14. Oh dear.

[Jazzgirl]

34. I just had to add another heart to ya!

n/t

[H2O Man]

42. Thank you.

Much appreciated.

[Jazzgirl]

36. Seriously "oh dear"

..

[bear425]

137. I like anchovies on my pizzas - do you think your critic does?

Thought provoking OP; too bad it flew over some heads. Thanks H2O Man for your continued efforts to enlighten us all.

:hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. These four college degrees...

did you earn them in your native country?

And what language did you speak there?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. lulz.

[ms liberty]

67. OOOOHHHH NOOOES! n/t

[Jazzgirl]

40. Sorry but I believe you r the one that needs to get a clue.

You have no idea whom you are addressing. Keep on.....keep on....I give you one....two.....three......to PEPPERONI!!!!!!

[grantcart]

49. Its unfortunate that your degrees did not give you a little more ability

at introspection and self awareness.


The OP was clearly satirical.

The OP is considered one of the heavy hitters at DU. He is one of the most blogrolled here: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/.

His academic credentials are unknown to me but his literary acumen is well know to those who visit here. I am unaware of any other DUer who is better read or is able to better mine the meat out of the literature he is quoting. This post from last week explores Nietzche, McCarthy, Sagan, Freud and McLuhan. (edited to add link http://journals.democraticunderground.com/H2O%20Man/597 )

He is well known, meaning known beyond the world of DU and on a much larger platform, for his wise counsel on boxing, African American history and specifically Native American activism in New York State.

His gentle poke at your pretenciousness with his funny comment about getting 97% on a grade school test was a self depreciating way to get you to back off and reconsider your line of reasoning. Your reply that he was insulting you made you look foolish and churlish.

His 6 year reign has drawn a wide legion of admirers here and until now not a single detractor.

I have not noticed any of your contributions in the 6 weeks that you have been here but I am sure that they would make all 4 of your alma maters proud as punch but your ability to understand here who is a 'Republican' or an 'asshole' is not an asset that you should try to employ again.

H20 Man's OP was a very clever unmasking not only of the racist nature of the cartoon in question but also a very insightful historical parrallel to Dallas 1963, something that many of us previously knew about but such is H20 Man's genius that he tied it together.

If you want to read some of the best submissions to DU I recommend H20 MAN's journal http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8208417#8208446

[cliffordu]

64. ...And since I am a lazy inarticulate recalcitrant fucker...

What Grantcart said.

[babylonsister]

130. Hey, me too! What Grantcart said so eloquently! nt

[ms liberty]

68. Doggone it grantcart, I like your reply better than mine. Great job! n/t

[immoderate]

82. grantcart, the tears are rolling down my cheeks...

I mean, I started laughing at H2O Man's English test, but by the time I got to your post, where each paragraph just convulsed me, I was :rofl:

This has to get some kind of award.

--imm

[beac]

149. "This has to get some kind of award."

Indeed. We need an award for masterful "kindly remove your thinking region from your sitting region" posts like grantcart's. Perhaps a GetaCLUEzy?

[immoderate]

159. I don't know what it was...

grantcart is one of our best information givers. (Talk about your understatements.) And here he was, just rolling out the simple and straightforward facts, and every line just pulled out greater hysteria from me. Reading that post added years to my life. I'm laughing again now. Thanks for bringing me back.

--imm

[TahitiNut]

93. Agreed ... 100%

:thumbsup:

[Tatiana]

95. You must have like... TWELVE degrees to have written that reply.

Which kicked ass, BTW.

[grantcart]

96. no but I did set the all time record for having to sit in the hall at Hamblen

Elementary School. The 5th Grade was my greatest year when the teacher tired of moving the desk out into the hall simply provided me with a second desk. The coup de grace was in getting kicked out on the last day of class which was not only a 2 hour day but was a day when everyone was shouting at the top of their lungs. I nevertheless managed to irritate the teacher with my specific comments and spent 1 hour and 45 minutes listening to the party inside!!!

[Tatiana]

98. Heh. Always knew you were a hellraiser. n/t

[Number23]

104. I have no idea what "blog rolling" means

But apparently some of the most "blog rolled" blogs here haven't been updated in almost a year. Not sure that means anything but it may.

Jay Musgrove's lack of reading comprehension is indeed hilarious, but I'm not sure what H2O Man's "heavy hitter" status has to do with that poster's inability to recognize a really good satirical jab when he sees one.

[grantcart]

107. It was in response to his reply 35 where the newbie makes a more generalized

attack on H20 MAN including the charge that he is a 'Republican asshole'.

[backtoblue]

126. applause from new girl

I feel as if I am a new girl at school (DU), but I had to jump up and applaud your reply...Intellect is only secondary to kindness and universal respect. Thank you for smacking with the ruler and teaching a very rude poster H20's meaning.

[wryter2000]

183. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[backtoblue]

206. thanks

Thank you very much! :)

[moggie]

129. Something which always amazes me about DU

Whenever satire is posted, no matter how clear its intent, there will always be at least one poster over whose head it will sail with a whooshing sound. I don't know whether this fact has already been given a name; if not, I propose either the "Waterman Law" or the "Musgrove Effect".

[grantcart]

143. well the irony of it is that such replies help generate dozens of extra kicks and recs

Helping to move this piece to top of the greatest page which is where it should be but might have sunk had Musgrove decided to not share with us the valuable product that

four college degrees

delivers.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[myrna minx]

185. Thank you for your wonderful reply. n/t

[NBachers]

134. ???????? ???????????? ????????? ???????????? ????

?

[bulldogge]

152. Speaking

of Republicans

"It is a thousand times better to have common sense without education than to have education without common sense."
Robert Green Ingersoll

[Lerkfish]

164. first rule of holes: when you find yourself in one, STOP DIGGING

reread the original post with "deadpan sarcasm" mode enabled. Might make more sense to you.

[rosesaylavee]

45. Buddy, buddy. Please reread the OP

I think YOU are the one missing the point. Mr. Waterman does not do sarcasm tags.

[TahitiNut]

84. Wow! You got a serious case of projection goin' on there, son of the four degrees.

You better check your shit ... it probably does stink.

:eyes:

[Brazenly Liberal]

112. I know what you mean. I think being insulting and calling people names is just simply unacceptable.

I'm sure you understand. For instance, has anyone ever called you a whiny, self-involved jerk with no sense of humor and a 2x4 up his ass?

[Marrah_G]

116. Why are you attacking H20?

What a bizarre post....it's almost like you have a prior beef with him.

[CatWoman]

15. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:rofl:

[babylonsister]

28. Bwhahaha!

:rofl:

[robertpaulsen]

16. Dude, what you need is more college. n/t

[ms liberty]

69. You almost owe me a laptop for that! n/t

[JTFrog]

108. But he's already a computer 'nerb'. Hell without a degree I don't even know what that is.

:shrug:

[robertpaulsen]

150. Me neither. Perhaps he misspelled that he uses a nerf computer.

Perhaps that accounts for his mad skillz at satire translation. ;)

[tblue37]

17. Satire-impaired? nt

[JayMusgrove]

29. Yes, if you are black, explain it to me, OKAY, if you are white

tell me how many times you have been shot by cops.

[Jazzgirl]

41. I am black and never shot by cops.

But I've encountered plenty of racism. But really.....you need to lose your sarcasm impairment......

[tblue37]

56. My post #33 explains it in detail. nt

[Lerkfish]

165. dude, you made my day. Never have I seen a more clueless individual

well, on second thought, I have, but not recently

[kestrel91316]

172. Okay, fess up. That's really Dubya there behind that JayMusgrove mask, isn't it???

Because nobody else in the country is that clueless.

[dbmk]

18. Stop!

"or have missed the point entirely"

Hammer time!

[ecstatic]

21. I don't get it either. Doesn't work well for the under 30 crowd

:shrug:

[tblue37]

39. See my post #33 below. nt

[astroBspacedog]

155. Us in the over 50 crowd, --- Totally confused

Especially me, (I'm packing no degrees) Does "Mr Kennedy" make the 1963 full page article satire, (the "Moran" syndrome) --- or is the original post satire? As a laid off carpenter due to economic hard times, ----- I think I'm going forget about this one for today and take my dog for a hike,-- better not strain my noodle today.


WOW !!!! The word "moran" comes up as correct in the DU spell check. ---- that is hilarious.

[tblue37]

22. OK--just in case you are really serious with these posts.

H2O Man is a well-known and respected, very liberal long-time DUer.

His point in the post is to mock those who can't understand that the cartoon is disgustingly racist.

On other threads,a few Duers have insisted that the cartoon is innocent and that the rest of us are twisting it to mean what we think it means. Some have even suggested that those of us who see racism in it are actually the racist ones, because we, not the "innocent" cartoonist, are the ones equating the chimp to Obama.

Here is such a thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8206272

H2O Man is also suggesting that the imagery and the obvious racist implications could even be seen as an incitement to violence against our president, just as the cartoon against JFK on the day of his death could be seen as inviting violence against that president. But since H2O Man is being satirical, he uses irony, meaning he says the opposite of what he really means, trusting his readers to pick up the irony.


BTW, I am severely hearing-impaired and have trouble understanding speech, even with my hearing aids in and turned up to their loudest setting.

I have a deaf/Hard of Hearing (HoH) website on which I post (usually, though not always humorous) articles about coping with deafness in a hearing (but not considerate) society. My first article on that site is entitled "Deaf People Are SO Annoying!" Since I and most of the female members of my family are deaf or HoH (as are some of the male ones as well), I obviously am mocking the people who are so annoyed that we hearing-impaired people bother them with our inability to hear, not deaf people, despite the article's title.

But in 2003 I got this message in my guest book from one young reader named Melissa (caps are all hers):

YOU MIGHT THINK DEAF PEOPLE ARE ANNOYING BUT I HAVE A DEAF BROTHER AND I HAVE LIVED WITH HIM ALL MY LIFE I AM 14 AND NOT ONCE I HAVE FOUND HES ANNOYING SO GO MAKE FUN OF OTHER PEOPLE OR AT LEAST GROW UP AND FIND SUMTHIN BETTER TO DO THAT PICK ON PEOPLE SO FUCK U

I responded:

Little girl, READ THE DARNED ESSAY! My point is that I AM A DEAF PERSON, MY TWO SISTERS ARE DEAF, MY MOTHER WAS DEAF, MY GRANDMOTHER WAS DEAF, MY GRANDMOTHER'S SISTERS AND HER BROTHER WERE DEAF. Now do you understand? The essay is SARCASTIC! I am writing about THE ATTITUDE OF HEARING PEOPLE TOWARD US DEAFIES. THEY are the ones who think we deaf people are annoying. I am a deaf person. I don't think we are annoying. Good lord! Don't they teach you children to READ in school these days? Let me explain SARCASM. When someone does something really, really stupid, and another person says, "Nice work, genius!" That doesn't mean that he really thinks it is nice work and that the person who did the stupid thing is genius. SARCASM MEANS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT IT SAYS. By the way, nice work, genius!!

[H2O Man]

23. And he never intended

to insult librarians, even if he had to pay a small "over-due" fine today.

[tblue37]

33. Waterman, I added some stuff to the post above yours *after* you read it and

responded to it. May I suggest that you go back and read the added material? I believe you will enjoy it.

[JayMusgrove]

24. What the F*CK did I miss?

You super intellectuals seem to love to dance on fellow Democrats, yes, with IQ's well above the majority, and with all sorts of hard work as college grad students, you seem to delight in flashing your "gotcha" moments, when the "in" joke got to you but not to me.

To all of you, I have something to say........but would be banned if I said it here. So you can imagine how ugly it would be.

You do NOT laugh at black presidents being equated to monkeys in 2009.

Get yourselves some sensitivity pills, next time you visit your doctor, OK?

[namahage]

43. And next time you visit the doctor...

...be sure you get that twitch in your knee checked out.

Obviously, political cartoons are too incendiary. Why not have a read of this Modest Proposal? I hear it's got some good recipes.

[HughMoran]

61. ???

How can you be so oblivious?

[namahage]

62. "To all of you, I have something to say........but would be banned if I said it here."

"Tomnbstone me now, Skinner"?

[ms liberty]

72. We're not laughing a black presidents being equated to monkeys...

we're laughing at the neanderthals who are trying to tell us that there is nothing racist or wrong with a cartoon that equates our black President with a monkey, and we're laughing at the unmitigated gall it takes for someone to defend this cartoon as innocent of racism and hate.

Can we put it any plainer for you? Do you not get satire? And just how do you like your pizza?

[immoderate]

86. Jay, it's a bit more subtle than you think.

I'm thinking if this were not by H2O Man, it may not have made it this far. It might require a second, or third read. You got caught, and you made this thread more memorable than just the wry OP. So welcome to DU, you will remember this one.

Trust me. No one is laughing at a black president being equated to a monkey. We've been doing this a long time, and there is an undercurrent here that academics do not prepare you for. I hope you can see it.

--imm

[Marrah_G]

119. Okay Folks- This is why posting after hitting the Meth pipe is discouraged.

[onlyadream]

154. Please, we're all on the same side!

Hey,new guy, I read the OP twice b4 I realized it was sarcastic, so take a look at it that way. And everyone else should stop jumping all over us *new* people! I got burned on a thread that I started last night - and it will really make me think twice about starting a new thread again. It seems that one must be thick skinned on DU. I'm not happy about that b/c DU should welcome us, warts and all. Aren't we all playing for the same team? Just b/c someone might not get someone's sense of humor (especially when they're not familiar with it) isn't cause to jump on them. BTW, my thread that I started was totally misread by many 1000 poster people and I didn't make fun of their poor reading comprehension skills! (even though my intent was plainly stated).

[Mother Of Four]

190. "fellow Democrats, yes, with IQ's well above the majority"

Quoting you-

This after the comment about the four degrees...
((((You super intellectuals seem to love to dance on fellow Democrats, yes, with IQ's well above the majority, and with all sorts of hard work as college grad students, you seem to delight in flashing your "gotcha" moments, when the "in" joke got to you but not to me.))))

Ok, so you have four degrees...
An IQ well above the majority...
And so much elbow grease devoted to hard book work.

Dear,
Please sit down I have something terrible to tell you.
"Book smart and common sense stupid" does actually exist.

Maybe I should sing it to get it across?
(To the tune "That don't impress me much" by Shania Twain)

I've known a few guys who thought they were pretty smart
But you've got being right down to an art
You think you're a genius-you drive me up the wall
You're a regular original, a know-it-all
Oh-oo-oh, you think you're special
Oh-oo-oh, you think you're something else

Okay, so you have four degrees...
That don't impress me much
So you got the brain but have you got the touch
Don't get me wrong, yeah I think you're alright
But that won't keep me warm in the middle of the night
That don't impress me much!


(Added this :sarcasm: in cast you couldn't tell I was being intentionally obtuse about the backhanded compliment to the boards intellect.)

[antigone382]

195. You know, generally...

when a DUer with sincere intentions misinterprets a very valuable and significant point illuminated by a blatantly satirical post, and as a result responds with rather irrational hostility towards the original poster, that DUer will take on an apologetic and conciliatory tone when he or she is made aware of the error, rather than an even more vicious and defensive one.

Such an enlightened response speaks volumes as to the quality of a person's education.

[nc4bo]

26. Umm....Jay, you should read up on H20Man's previous posts. nt

[dalaigh lllama]

48. Um. Yes, it seems you missed the point

Sometimes it pays to re-read for comprehension before posting.

Congrats on the four college degrees, BTW. That was very informative of you.

[Jackeens]

63. I'd just like to say: I don't have four college degrees....

....just two. The second, a Masters (which I earned for pretty much showing up once a month at tutorials for a year), suggests I might be quite bright, when the truth is I'm actually:



So - and I don't at all mean to discredit JayMusgrove's four degrees - I suspect having bucketloads of degrees is no proof at all, at all of smartness.

But even I get satire. Seriously. As someone famous (so famous I can't remember their name) once said:

“Satire should, like a polished razor keen, wound with a touch that's scarcely felt or seen.”

Loved your OP H20 Man.

:thumbsup:

[ms liberty]

65. Your sense of humor is deficient...

And furthermore, you are rude to a most respected member of our group - a member who has far more knowledge and experience than you in matters at which you attempt to school him; and H20Man has no need to post smilies in order to convey the comedic tilt to his post. I, and other DU'ers, understood him right away. There was also valuable information shared in his OP, if you will but see it.


I find myself disinclined to welcome you to DU at this time; you have not made a positive first impression. One hopes you will read and learn more than you post until you are better informed.

[rhett o rick]

85. So if i get the satire, does that make me a Libertarian. omg no. me and John Stossel. help me. nm

[spanone]

115. be nice to H2O man, he's obviously lacking your brilliant intellect

he struggle sometimes

[Marrah_G]

120. BWahahahahaha !

:rofl:

[Zodiak]

118. Did your four degrees cover sarcasm in your coursework?

Because you apparently missed it in the OP.

[Dukkha]

125. I see those 4 years at DeVry really worked out for you

what a nerb!

[JanusAscending]

145. OH MY God....................

I wish there was a smilie with a finger pointing at someone, but this will have to do......:wow: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Lerkfish]

162. you (a million miles over your head) point

deadpan is a acquired taste.

[kestrel91316]

168. The OP is sarcasm, not humor or satire.

Welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

[Grateful for Hope]

10. I know

very, very surprising.

I, for one, can't see any difference between the NY Postal cartoon and the Dallas Morning News cartoon.

Neither can I.

[Spazito]

11. Geez, you scared the crap outa me!

I started reading and was absolutely sure your account had been hijacked. Am calming down now that I finished reading your OP. It's perfect.

[FrenchieCat]

19. Yep......

No cause or effect. :shrug: :sarcasm:

[WillyT]

31. Exactly !!!

:banghead:

:shrug:

[namahage]

47. "Missle"? "Marraige"? What were Freepers called before the days of FR? n/t

[ms liberty]

71. Thanks, FrenchieCat - I'd never seen or heard of this...n/t

[AspenRose]

122. Good Lord...they haven't learned ANYTHING, have they?

That looks like something they'd come up with today. Same old tired, nasty M.O. "American Fact-Finding Committee?" These people are as un-American as they come. Good find, Frenchie.

And thank you again, as usual, H20 Man.

[mt13]

166. thank you , FrenchieCat!

this post and its responses made me want to go and search this out but didn't want to leave before i finished reading all of the replies. thank you for posting these!

upon edit, corrected typo. I am a typing lysdexic!

[Bluerthanblue]

200. holy crap- I'd never seen those ads.-

pretty terrible.

I was little enough not to read the paper, but old enough to be forever changed by his murder.

Thanks for posting the facts.



peace

[genna]

205. Honestly I did not know this part of JFK

Once you posted that handbill, I was able to look it up.


In part:
"The ad began with a sarcastic “Welcome Mr. Kennedy to Dallas,” a city which had been the victim of “a recent Liberal smear attempt” and which had prospered “despite efforts by you and your administration to penalize it for non-conformity to ‘New Frontierism’.” The ad then posed a series of belligerent, insulting loaded questions, including:
“Why has Gus Hall, head of the U.S. Communist Party, praised almost every one of your policies and announced that his party will endorse and support your re-election bid?”
“Why have you ordered or permitted your brother Bobby, the Attorney General, to go soft on Communists, fellow-travelers, and ultra-leftists in America, while permitting him to persecute loyal Americans who criticize you, your administration, and your leadership?”
“Why have you scrapped the Monroe Doctrine in favor of the ‘Spirit of Moscow’?”"
I forgot to add the webpage cite. http://www.lawsch.uga.edu/academics/profiles/dwilkes_more/jfk_24blownaway.html

So the right has been crazy for longer than Nixon? He left office the month and year I was born. My Mom was 10 years old when JFK made his last trip.


So when you all say the far end of the right wing became mainstream and there is no center, you REALLY REALLY mean it.

thanks for educating me. I guess my degrees needed an historical update.

[cliffordu]

20. Keecked and rekkied

I din't finsh no college ane I got it....

[Solomon]

55. LOL

:rofl:

[Mira]

25. When I got an email that said "I Nigger al" fo inaugural I thought it was a harmless play on words

[ecstatic]

27. oops I get it now

D'oh.

[tblue37]

57. Good. Now explain it to Jay, since he seems unwilling to read

my explanation or to reread the OP.

[ecstatic]

58. Well I was distracted by trying to envison what the JFK cartoon was about

and it didn't help that my dates weren't in order. However, now that I "get it," it just makes me sad and I hope history doesn't repeat itself.

[Jazzgirl]

32. Uh-Oh H2O Man...

I almost went off! I couldn't believe "my" H2O Man had defected!!!!! LOL! Ya got me!

[Solomon]

37. My my, this is one of your finest posts H2.

Sourced, just the right length, succinct, right to the point, poetic, dignified, and nailed to the wall. Said it so much better than all of us.

I thank you. :smoke:

[JuniperLea]

44. I don't see the difference either...

Well done, H2O Man!

[rosesaylavee]

46. As always learned more than a couple things from reading

your essay today. Thanks for posting.

:patriot:

[Me.]

50. You've Become Quite A Satirist

No wonder you have so many hearts.

[grantcart]

51. Brilliant as usual.

And had you inserted the sarcasm emoticom I would have cried myself to sleep.

[Clio the Leo]

52. "aimed at Presidnet Obama"?

Freudian slip there? (Ha ha)

[H2O Man]

53. That exact same mistake

cost me 3 points on a pop quiz in 7th grade, you know (see post #12). You DO know! How did you know?

[Phx_Dem]

54. You had me there too for a minute. Pfew!

[Solomon]

59. The plot twist was great wasn't it?

I'm proud to say that I got it pretty early. LOL Some people read the whole thing before they got it. (And some still don't get it) LOL

[ms liberty]

60. You almost had me there, H20Man...

I had no idea about the Dallas cartoon...the parallel is interesting - the right never changes, does it?

K&R

[Justitia]

66. From the 6th Floor Museum in Dallas....check out this flyer...."Wanted For Treason"

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-detail?fedoraid=sfm:1999.023.0017

Distributed in downtown Dallas a day or two before the fateful presidential visit.

I used to live in Dallas, been to the museum several times. I've seen this flyer and more, in person - it literally turned my stomach.

[Born_A_Truman]

70. I think this went over someone's head.

:popcorn:

[Me.]

75. Could Be Or....

It's quite possible that our lying eyes didn't see what they saw and though it's quacking it really isn't a duck.

[WHAT]

101. thin line between obtuse and irony?...

it took a sharp knife to "dress" the issue.

I almost didn't open this post even though I read a lot of H2O's posts...that's how deft it was. I even think the degree person may have been intentionally obtuse in order to dampen or highlight the insight.

...and I never consciously thought of the interplay between the obtuse and the ironic before.

[mmonk]

73. It's difficult to see differences where none exist.

[firedupdem]

74. Thank you for posting this...

It got me until the 3rd paragraph. I left DU earlier today really upset that a few people here determined that the cartoon meant nothing. I am very offended and disgusted by that cartoon. I pray for our President's safety everyday.

[unapatriciated]

76. NY Postal....

Yep that about sums up where they went with that cartoon.

[Number23]

77. I loved this. Thanks for posting.

[vaberella]

78. Ahhh Satire....I'm bad with Satire unless I get those inflamed ~sarcasm~ icon. n/t

[Faryn Balyncd]

79. Boy! Do those goofy RW'ers have a sense of humor!!!

[bottomtheweaver]

87. You earned those hearts H20 Man.

That's a pretty scary connection, especially if you look at the Dallas ad as part of the coverup -- "see, this is what drove that poor nut Oswald round the bend." With all due respect to Mr. Bugliosi, that's not the way it went down.

What next?!

:scary:

[Jorge Zapatero]

88. You raise good points

I for one can't read minds so i will not assume that the cartoon was necessarily racist. It was certainly a corny joke, though.

[bridgit]

89. America has certainly had her flirtation with cartoons & political satire

[byronius]

90. Oh, my. This was a truly important post.

Well done, sir. So revealing.

I never knew about the Dallas cartoon. OMG. Hit me like a ton of bricks.

Thanks.

[RoyGBiv]

91. Best. Post. Ever.

[Political Heretic]

106. This pretty much tipifies why our country is going to shit. Right here.

Best post ever?

This is why we're falling apart.

[H2O Man]

109. Correct.

All of the problems our nation faces are directly related to this OP/thread. The NY Post cartoon was actually an attempt to save us from ourselves, and this OP/thread is an attempt to derail that effort. But please! Do not tell others, for that could ruin the entire process.

[Tsiyu]

180. :rofl:

Good one, H2O. Now you know I luvs me some H2O man posts but I was just a tad bit confused - until I got to the end and I used my un-degreed ass to put it all together.

You always cut right to the chase in the most efficient manner.

:yourock:

[RoyGBiv]

117. Live the dream. n/t

[inthebrain]

94. If one needs any further proof that the left, or even liberals, do not control this party

look no further than this board.

Especially in regards to this cartoon.

This is why Republicans along the with the right are able to steam roll this party. When it comes to shit like this, everyone just rolls over and plays dead slug. Except when the chips are down it's good to drum up support by calling these racist cartoons for what they are; Pure fucking unadulerated hate and racism.

That cartoon really leaves very little in terms of grey area in it's racist depiction and intent.

This isn't rocket science.

I'd really like to know if people here that don't think this is racist are claiming such so they appear "reasonable".

But then again, when this party starts winning elections, it's no surprise to see it shit all over the liberals and the left. When it gets on a losing streak it's amazing to see how it makes nice again.

[tekisui]

114. I am appalled at how vigorously this racist cartoon has been defended

and denied as racist on this board. Calling these things out and forcing the right to back off when they pull this shit is how to stay in power. If we give them an inch on this racism, it will be a mile next time, and will likely be defended by DUers when it comes.

Just appalling and disgusting.

[kestrel91316]

175. The intent of the OP was to point out, through sarcasm, just how racist

and inflammatory the cartoon was.

I guess you didn't get it.

[Tatiana]

97. I'm rather stunned that people were unaware of the ad that ran hours before Kennedy's arrival in TX.

This is our history and if we are not cognizant of it, we are doomed to repeat it.

Nov. 22, 1963 The Dallas Morning News, a respected newspaper, ran the ad FrenchieCat has been generous enough to post above.

That afternoon, our President lay dead.

The cartoon is no laughing matter.

[genna]

208. Apalled might be a good word for the miseducation of the African American

Matter of fact, you can say the Miseducation of the Liberals.

It is not like most of the curriculum K-19 have a liberal slant. Conservatives did a number to what is taught.

Also, the media does not education. Bowling for Columbine along with the Penguin documentary might have put that venue back on the map.

If you think we have an education, you'd be right. H20 Man didn't understand what kind of generational gap he was courting in satire. If we don't know the symbols, we can't possibly decipher for the message.

[depakid]

99. According to a lot of DU'er it's perfectly acceptible

and things like this SHOULD proliferate and be repeated -with no accountabilty, with no criticism nor opposing points of view or presentation of actual facts-

Not in print- but over the public airwaves every day in every community in America.

[Kind of Blue]

100. Brilliant and chilling. Thanks! n/t

[Political Heretic]

102. Not even remotely related.

But of course that never stops this place from going bat shit crazy about this kind of fucking ridiculous nonsense.

[dbmk]

103. "ridiculous nonsense"

When a paper of that size includes a picture that equates the first black president with an ape with bullet holes in it?

Being offended by that is "ridiculous nonsense"?

[Political Heretic]

105. except that it doesn't do that, except in the minds of the fanantically delusional.

A cartoon that spoofs a real picture, with the caption "they'll have to find someone else to write the new stimulus bill" -- who wrote the stimulus bill?

I'm just checking in here..... who was it again, because I get a little hazy on this point....

Oh yeah.... CONGRESS.

We've seen chimps used for years to represent doing something in ways that are crazy and don't make sense. Why isn't there a bunch of threads about OMGRACISM!1 whenever there's a new commercial depicting a bunch of chimps in the office dropping copy paper, throwing staplers and tearing up phones before some company like staples invites us to come to them for all their organizational needs?

[dbmk]

110. Yeah, because thats what the public impression is

That it came from Congress. Not Obama.

Give me a break. It has been lauded as Obamas bill everywhere, and the GOP has been more than happy to paint it that way. And the cartoon clearly refers to a single person. Unless you want to argue that the single ape represents all of congress. Then we can talk about delusional.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

173. thank you.

great job of making that clear---I wanted to say something but I'm glad your reply was here already. It's what I would have wished I could say.

[sellitman]

111. You Sir, are brilliant.

But what I don't understand is how did I with only 2 years of College and no degree to show for it manage to understand your intent?

DU DU DU DU .....DU DU DU DU......

[SunsetDreams]

113. Excellente H2O, you almost had me there K&R

[LynneSin]

123. The premise of the cartoon is not the issue - it's the use of a monkey.

A symbol that throughout the decades has been used as a derogatory symbol against African Americans starting when the slaves were first freed back 150 some years ago give or take.

Over 100 years ago it was commonplace to show an African-American hunched over like a monkey or with their facial features distorted to that of an ape. Fortunately modern times have upgrade us that we find this sort of cartooning as nothing more than racism.

Which, in my opinion makes this cartoon racist too.

[Uncle Joe]

124. Kicked and recommended, excellent observation.

Thanks for the thread, H20 Man.:thumbsup:

[AlbertCat]

128. Neocons are pitiful when trying to be clever.

They're so full of themselves that things they think are "funny" usually shock the rest of us with their insensitivity.

Sometimes things on the critical side can get out of hand....like with the New Yorker cover which actually made fun of Neocon racist notions. But this cartoon clearly refers to Obama as a dead chimp. If the cartoonist didn't mean that, what did he mean? If he cannot communicate, he should go back to cartoon school or get another job. His cluelessness and the paper's for running the bad cartoon should be publicly noted and held up for what it is: insensitive racism.

[TuxedoKat]

131. Thanks for this post...

I couldn't comprehend why some people were defending the cartoon yesterday. The cartoon was immediately offensive to me for several reasons. I had to explain why though to DH who has one degree more than me, go figure. At least he didn't argue with me.

[Me.]

133. Degrees

Six degrees of separation, which means that sooner or later the cartoon will become relevant to their lives and they will get what all the fuss is about.

[nc4bo]

132. The toon is a perfect example of Eric Holder's "nation of cowards" speech yesterday.

The perfect example of modern day down low, slickity-slick racism and bigotry disguised as a harmless satirical (as badly done as it is) toon.

If a person has to ask for clarification about a "joke", is it really a joke anymore? If Mr. Sean were a stand-up comedian, he would have been boo'd off the stage. :wtf: should also be counted as a question.

He added the text balloon to the toon and together with the drawing, left the perception up to the viewer without blatantly exposing the deep racial connotation many of us would have perceived and knowing damn good and well what the many, many negative perceptions people have of black people.

It really is all about our perceptions.

Perception http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception:

Just as one object can give rise to multiple percepts, so an object may fail to give rise to any percept at all: if the percept has no grounding in a person's experience, the person may literally not perceive it.

The processes of perception routinely alter what humans see. When people view something with a preconceived idea about it, they tend to take those preconceived ideas and see them whether or not they are there. This problem stems from the fact that humans are unable to understand new information, without the inherent bias of their previous knowledge. The extent of a person’s knowledge creates their reality as much as the truth, because the human mind can only contemplate that which it has been exposed to. When objects are viewed without understanding, the mind will try to reach for something that it already recognizes, in order to process what it is viewing. That which most closely relates to the unfamiliar from our past experiences, makes up what we see when we look at things that we don’t comprehend.

Mr. Sean worked it. The NYPost worked it. They routinely do it to gays and blacks. No one can convince me that the NYPost or Sean Delonas did not know the history of blacks in America. The NYPost, Delonas and anyone who can not manage to have one drop of empathy toward the history of black people in America are either in denial, are lying to themselves or, have been and continue to be completely ignorant of American history.

February, 2008 - http://news-service.stanford.edu/pr/2008/pr-eber-021308.html

Perception:

Discrimination against blacks linked to dehumanization, study finds

Crude historical depictions of African Americans as ape-like may have disappeared from mainstream U.S. culture, but research presented in a new paper by psychologists at Stanford, Pennsylvania State University and the University of California-Berkeley reveals that many Americans subconsciously associate blacks with apes.
-------
Historical background

Scientific racism in the United States was graphically promoted in a mid-19th-century book by Josiah C. Nott and George Robins Gliddon titled Types of Mankind, which used misleading illustrations to suggest that "Negroes" ranked between "Greeks" and chimpanzees. "When we have a history like that in this country, I don't know how much of that goes away completely, especially to the extent that we are still dealing with severe racial inequality, which fuels and maintains those associations in ways that people are unaware," Eberhardt said.

Although such grotesque characterizations of African Americans have largely disappeared from mainstream U.S. society, Eberhardt noted that science education could be partly responsible for reinforcing the view that blacks are less evolved than whites. An iconic 1970 illustration, "March of Progress," published in the Time-Life book Early Man, depicts evolution beginning with a chimpanzee and ending with a white man. "It's a legacy of our past that the endpoint of evolution is a white man," Eberhardt said. "I don't think it's intentional, but when people learn about human evolution, they walk away with a notion that people of African descent are closer to apes than people of European descent. When people think of a civilized person, a white man comes to mind."

Perception: http://aleph0.clarku.edu/huxley/comm/ScPr/owen.html




Yea, we elected a black President. Yea, we've made some progress regarding race relations here in America but we can never EVER heal the racial divide until we change how black people are perceived.

Until we open up real discussion, we really are a nation of cowards.

[Hello_Kitty]

136. Wow! You should make this response an OP. eom

[Kashka-Kat]

135. Wish I could see this cartoon - have heard its one of those "huh?" type cartoons that don't make

sense. You know the type, you stare at the damn thing for 15 minutes and you don't have a clue what it means and what's supposed to be funny.

[DevonRex]

138. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. K&R. nt

[liberal N proud]

139. I never knew about the 11-22-63 Dallas paper

I would have been to young to remember if there had been any mention of it.

Wow, just wow!

[JDwho]

140. I just saw this cartoon and listened to it's discussion on "The View"

It's been a while since I've posted anything, but I visit and read here often. Firstly, let me say, "Well written, H20 man". Secondly, I must say that I was more than disappointed in the discussion following your post.
I practically ran to my comp. to check out what DUers were saying about this racist cartoon. I expected great back and forth, and serious proclamations to discontinue reading of the NY Post and/or paying for it's subscription.
What I found was an entire discussion about Waterman's writing style.

This so called cartoon implies a view that is so disgusting and dangerous, the intent of it and what we can do to change this type of "humor" or "art" is something we should talk about. H20 attempted to get the ball rolling...
I'll write to the NY POST and express my disgust while letting them know that it will be the last time they get my attention unless they apologize for publishing such hate and retract the entire piece of trash. At that point, I'm sure they'll laugh at their singular reader lost.
But, what if more than one did this? What if thousands did this?
Just an idea. If anyone has a better suggestion, let me know.

Thanks again H20, for addressing the issue so succinctly.

[babylonsister]

146. You might enjoy

doing a search of GD and GD/P using Sharpton as your key word. The cartoon has inspired at least a brazillion threads from appalled DU members.

[JDwho]

202. Thanks for the tip, I later read those after posting.

[Skarbrowe]

141. Political satire can be so enlightening. "R" 's simply don't know

how to do it. It takes logical thinking with that brilliance of a twist that lets you know exactly what the cartoon is attempting to say. This cartoon simply fails in almost every respect. Yes, they could be saying that crazed monkeys wrote the stimulus bill. I get it. It's also a long, long stretch to tying it in with the unfortunate incident with this chimpanzee. What if it had been a tiger or something other than a chimpanzee. Would we have seen a cartoon with this odd tie in to the stimulus package?

In other words, I'm not even commenting on the racial aspect. The cartoon simply doesn't work as good political satire. I've always found that to be true when attempted by right of the center cartoonist.

[superfly21]

147. if you look for racism

you will find it

[nc4bo]

151. You mean if it walks, quacks and has feathers, it's a lizard? nt

[immoderate]

163. If you don't look for racism...

It will still be there.

--imm

[H2O Man]

167. Could you say that again?

I couldn't hear you. It sounded like you have a tombstone in your mouth.

[grantcart]

184. I don't understand you. He is not speaking, he is writing and what does the

tombstone have to do with it? I have 3 advance college degrees and won several spelling bees and I can't believe how difficult it is to understand what the hell your writing about. (Practicing my Jay Musgrove impression for the lounge.)

[H2O Man]

186. I have had

a number of people (including some associates who "read" DU, but are not registered members) write to me and say that this is one of the most hilarious threads they ever read on DU. Several had said that I owe JM for making it complete. One has asked if JM and I set this up beforehand -- I refuse to answer that.

[grantcart]

187. could have been the greatest use of a sock puppet in the history of DU lol

[Uncle Joe]

171. If you look for the tombstone, you will find it.

RIP.:cry:

[sniffa]

191. Welcome to.... oh, never mind.

[Gormy Cuss]

210. And if you don't look, sometimes it still smacks you on the head. n/t

[islandmkl]

148. hey H2O Man: i guess we have all discovered the difference...

between 6 degrees of separation...and 4 degrees....

next time you fire some satire, i guess you better aim a little lower...



forgot to add: another great post H2O....

[Wendio]

156. I admit...

I had to read your OP twice before I got it.
I thought maybe I was in the wrong place for a second!
Thanks for the insight, I hope those that need that insight will also "get it".

[pansypoo53219]

158. cartoon was specious

about it's view. that was why is sucks. the republikkkans were the mad monkeys.

[omega minimo]

160. .

:cry:

[Pamela Troy]

161. Some people have no sense of history or cultural literacy.

Or they pretend not to.

I'm not sure which is worse.

[mt13]

174. brilliant

Dear H2O,

I was nearly taken aback until I realized your satire.
This has to be the best read I have had at DU in a long time.
Thank you.

And thank you JayMusgrove, for providing such fodder as to make this post so fascinating.

This cartoon was extremely offensive to me on a couple of levels.

First: I live in Connecticut and the event that took place on Monday was horrific. I find no humor in portraying such tragedy as comedy. It is not funny, listen to the 911 call.

Second: the addition of the direct reference to President Obama's Stimulus Bill, tying in the racism portrayed by the use of Travis, the chimpanzee, is disgraceful.

How on earth can anyone not think this was a direct racial stab at our President is beyond me.

[BrklynLiberal]

176. Great post H2O Man. None are so blind as those who will not see.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

177. wow.... :stunned: ...... I didn't get it at first either. I had to read the surrounding posts

before it started to dawn on me.

FrenchieCat's kindly providing the "Truth Committee" flyers really drove it home. :scared:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

179. on another note, Maybe JayMusgrove has Asperger's

or something...it is possible to be completely satire and socially impaired.

Anyway, maybe he didn't deserve the thrashing; he was up in arms to defend the President against the violent threat implied in the cartoon, and what he misperceived as agreement with the cartoon.

I've known some Asperger's kids, and the extreme earnestness and lashing out, jumping to wrong conclusions and being dead certain about them....the total social obtuseness and all of it just felt really familiar to me.

He might not have been trying to be obnoxious; he just might not have been able to help it.

[RoyGBiv]

188. Perhaps, however ...

When one begins their post with, "I have four college degrees" without the question being, "How many degrees do you have?" that person can pretty much expect what's coming to them.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

199. that too sounded very Aspergers to me

I get what you're saying, don't get me wrong.
For most people we know, they would absolutely deserve a thrashing for being so out of it.

It's just, everything about the guy seemed more out of touch than just plain assholery.
Just what the picture looked like to me. :shrug:

[Captain Hilts]

178. I was slow on the uptake because I don't associate chimps with humans and I was confused...

I didn't make the connection with the incident in Conn.

I was just horrified at the prospect of depicting violence against public officials.

So, I didn't know who was being stupid - the cartoonist for thinking one person makes legislation, or posters here who instantly interpreted it that way.

That said, I think it was offensive and an apology should be issued.

[Bette Noir]

181. Brilliant piece: downright chilling.

Too bad it went over so many heads.

[geniph]

182. Some folks posting here have a serious irony-deficiency

n/t

[gmoney]

189. I object to this cartoonist in that he's not funny and a terrible "artist"

I use the term "artist" extremely loosely here, obviously. Is "drawer" a word?

[McCamy Taylor]

192. K&R

[bluesmail]

193. I don't get racism. I understand if a person has a problem with

another person, (I do a lot) but a whole race of your own species?

[PatrynXX]

194. Intended or not , poorly timed.

Free speech yes. Their defense... absurd... :( Coulda had a better defense than that.

that being said, shall I go find a copy of Little Black Sambo?

(actually had a 78 of that. someone wanted me to sell it on ebay)

[stillcool]

198. Are you talking about the JFK cartoon..

being poorly timed?

[annabanana]

196. bookmarked!

(This is exactly the kind of thread I use for DU recruitment purposes.)

[TheCentepedeShoes]

197. I knew what you were

talking about. Thanks go to FrenchieCat who posted the actual ads.

[Imagevision]

201. This cartoon is only a door opener - next they'll bring out King Kong using a "Black"berry

[blogslut]

203. Too late to recommend

Not too late to kick.

I heard on KO that old Rupert is none too thrilled with his NYPost editor. The decision to print that horrid toon might have been the man's swan song.

[genna]

204. I didn't know when Pres. Kennedy died, so I had to go to wikipedia

What did that ad look like?

Is it anywhere online?

[grantcart]

207. see 19 above

[genna]

209. Thanks grantcart. Read the ad. Then found a cite from a law school about it.

Hey I guess education is really very important. Too bad I did that whole formal thing and realized how much information they left out of it.