As per our Attorney General, I will NOT be a coward about how much Al Sharpton annoys me.

[Bicoastal]

Here he is again, heading (with great fanfare) full-tilt into another racial controversy as if this whole incident was all about HIM, not Obama or black people in general. Why must all apologies (or requests for apologies) be requested by and delivered to Sharpton? How is he qualified to do this, anyway?

He has been dead wrong now on several embarrassing occasions--occasionally saying things nearly as offensive as the racism he protests against--and at worst, his involvement always brings an unwanted level of flamboyance and celebrity to any incident he gets involved with. What's especially ludicrous about this situation is that the subject of the undeniably offensive NY Post cartoon is President Barack Obama, a black man who is much more powerful and level-headed than Sharpton has ever been. Obama gets results; do you think the President feels he really needs the Rev. Al Sharpton's help on this one?

I'll admit it--I'm not black. I have no idea how the majority of the African-American community in this country feels about Sharpton today, and I won't presume to guess. But these tense incidents of ignorance and racism always seem to spiral out of control once Al gets involved, because suddenly the Conservatives have an easy punching bag to rally the base with. That alone isn't enough to make me wish he wouldn't materialize every time a racial controversy erupts, but as a self-proclaimed leader of his community, he really should let younger, cooler heads prevail at this point in his career.

Sharpton, along with Jesse Jackson (who I hold in much higher regard, btw), has talked about serving as a link between the days of Martin Luther King Jr and the era of the Obama family living in the White House. But I feel that his time, if he ever had one, has come and gone.

(No need to reach for the Pop Secret--I brought some myself. :popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:)

[AspenRose]

1. Your focus should be on the message, not the messenger.

In this case Sharpton is spot on.

You don't have to like the guy (he annoys me as well) but he is right in this case.

[goclark]

2. Exactly ~

[Bicoastal]

6. I disagree--in politics, the messenger is everything.

I learned that after watching Obama succeed against the RW attack machine where other black candidates had failed.

[AspenRose]

9. "A broken clock is right twice a day"

[napoleon_in_rags]

65. And you're right, Obama is the one with the best judgement.

Thank GOD for that. My take on the whole cartoon is this: Wouldn't it be a wet dream for the conservatives if Obama's supporters started protesting a cartoon in a way that reminded people of the Muslim furor over the Mohammed cartoon?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4684652.stm
That event made the whole world question Muslims, because just about everybody else is used to a culture where we don't take cartoons too seriously, whatever they say. To me the cartoon is obviously tasteless, but Obama has the gift of not getting in stupid fights, he picks good fights, on things that matter: policy issues. That's why he wins. I think we need to keep our eyes focused on him here, and take his lead. My bet is that his message to us will be to focus on things more substantial than the offensive cartoon.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Sharpton may be self-promoting, but it doesn't lessen the strength of his argument.

The premise, that it.

And where are other voices of outrage from both the African American community and other groups? Their voices are either being downplayed or ignored in order to shift the attention from the issue to Al Sharpton.

[DevonRex]

4. I really like Sharpton. He's right about this. I don't give a rat's ass how the republics

react to him.

[sandnsea]

5. What embarrassing occasions?

The reason Al Sharpton does it is because NOBODY ELSE WILL.

[MadBadger]

15. Um, Holy Duke Lacrosse Case Batman?

[sandnsea]

18. Nothing embarrassing about that

Women should be taken seriously when they say they are raped. They often aren't, especially when it involves frat boy types. The one who should be embarrassed is the prosecutor who had the case so screwed up you couldn't tell up from down on it.

[AZ Criminal JD]

86. Shapton insisted the woman had been raped

He fanned the flames for his own opportunist agenda. Exactly what he did in the infamous Twanna Brawley case.

[rvablue]

22. I'm all for him protesting this, but if you want and "embarrassing occasion" google

Tawana Brawley.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. That's a good point.

I'll never forgive him for lying about that time Tawana Brawley dodged sniper fire in Kosovo.

[Bicoastal]

35. That's out of line--why bring Clinton into this? They're completely unrelated subjects.

[rvablue]

69. It's probably because of my avatar.....it sends a small minority over the edge of reason

because I have it, I guess according to a teeny-tiny minority, I'm not allowed to comment on anything.

:shrug:

[MadBadger]

37. Wow, reshashing the primaries in a thread about Sharpton?

What the hell is the point of this?

[sandnsea]

75. About as stupid as rehashing two rape cases

when at least Sharpton was trying to help someone get justice.

[sandnsea]

31. That's two. He's 54. Are you kidding me??

Stop being intimidated into hating those who stand up for the oppressed. Tawana Brawley is ancient history. A Republican never has to step aside because of intentional corruption, let alone on honest mistake made to help someone else.

[rvablue]

70. Like I said, I'm not hating on Sharpton. Maybe I can find it, but I posted

yesterday that I couldn't wait to see Reverend Al hand the Post their asses at the protest today.

I was responding to a query in general on how he might have embarrassed himself in the past and while Tawana Brawley is "ancient history" there isn't a soul in the tri-state area who was "consciencous" at the time that doesn't remember it. It was a HUGE mistake.

With that said, I'm not hating on the good Reverend and didn't say a word about him "stepping aside." That is all PROJECTION on your part. I watched him on KO last night and thought that he outlined why people are offended by this "cartoon" beautifully and I hope he keeps speaking out.

Please don't attack me and accuse me of "hating" merely because I gave a factual answer to a question that was posed. Not cool.


Edit to add: Here are my two post yesterday in support of Al Sharpton and his efforts:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8206400&mesg_id=8207289

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8206272&mesg_id=8207260


Do you have an apology ..... doubt it!

[Bicoastal]

77. NO NEED, I've changed my mind. ALL OTHERS CAN DISREGARD THIS OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8211293&mesg_id=8211293

[Bicoastal]

42. Some are controversial, I'll grant you--like the ones listed below...BUT

...his role in the events prior in the Crown Heights Riots was the worst. He could have protected people and property from getting hurt, but he instead decided to shoot his mouth with statements like "If the Jews want to get it on, tell them to pin their yarmulkes back and come over to my house," which was something he said on record AT THE FUNERAL for the kid at the epicenter of this event. There's no excusing that kind of talk, especially from a civil rights leader.

[sandnsea]

73. What role?

The riots were after the accident, not the funeral.

And they couldn't prove someone who knocked down a 600 lb pillar was speeding?

Brainwashed.

[Freddie Stubbs]

67. Tawana Brawley, Crystal Mangum

[Danger Mouse]

71. Tawana Brawley would be the most infamous.

[sandnsea]

74. How many years ago? And so what? n/t

[Danger Mouse]

81. Sharpton did some pretty unethical things in that case.

He was sued for defamation, you know, and rightly so.

I'm not saying it invalidates the man's other actions, but let's not pretend it didn't happen and that it wasn't serious.
The Tawana Brawley case takes away from the legitimate victims of hate crimes, and thus hurts everybody.

[Connie_Corleone]

7. Like Sharpton said last night. He's a civil rights activist.

It's his job to do what he's doing.

[Bicoastal]

8. I have nothing against civil rights activists. I just dislike this one.

[MadBadger]

17. I wish he was a civil rights activist...he's an African American Rights Activist

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. You remind me of the "gays want special rights" crowd.

[MadBadger]

21. ?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. You're forwarding the notion that african americans and civil rights are exclusive.

In much the same way that homophones forward the notion that gays getting equal protection is special rights.

[MadBadger]

44. I was actually forwarding the notion that I wish he did more for other groups' civil rights.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. Al Sharpton does do things for other groups' civil rights.

He's a vocal supporter for gay rights.

He's a vocal supporter for animal rights, including cutting a video for PETA.

And he was famously arrested and imprisoned without bail for protesting the School of the Americas.

But that doesn't fit in with your narrative.

[MadBadger]

49. Which is what exactly? What is my narrative?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. The narrative that Al Sharpton is not a civil rights activist.

He's just one a them uppity afromericun activists.

[MadBadger]

55. Based on your wording, I guess I'm a racist now too.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. My word choice has no impact on your personal system of beliefs.

[Runcible Spoon]

60. Now you just stop that right there!

Keep on in this vein and I won't be able to snicker privately to myself about your antics! I'm starting...to...gasp...LIKE you and AGREE on a lot of what you've posted recently! :nuke: :hug:

[countingbluecars]

10. Sharpton is doing what needs to be done. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Holder's comments are nicely timed with this cartoon.

Just notice all the racist cowards sticking their fingers in their ears and pretend it's not racisst.

[Cha]

14. Impeccable

timing.

[Bicoastal]

27. You're not talking about me, are you?

Because I think the cartoon is VERY racist.

[MadBadger]

34. I dont think he's talking about you...that would mean somebody has a reading problem.

[Bicoastal]

38. No, Fructose below thinks I'm a racist too.

But I don't know why disliking Al Sharpton can be confused with hating all black people, although it does nicely highlight the central argument in my OP.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

51. If you thought the cartoon was racist...

I don't think you'd be arguing that only Obama was the target of the cartoon.

[Bicoastal]

68. * * *Ok, I'll concede that point. (See how easy that was?)* * *

Although it's pretty clear that Obama was at the focal point of that cartoon, you're correct. Comparing any black person to a chimp is a racist insult to all black people--although referring to Obama as a champ (which was my original interpretation) is undoubtedly racist inofitself. Truth is, that cartoon is bad on many levels.

HOWEVER: it doesn't change my central problem with Al Sharpton's involvement. And it doesn't make me a racist.

[GodlessBiker]

12. You think the "Obama as monkey" theme is directed to Obama alone?

Anyone who cares about this issue has the right to stand up and say he or she is pissed off. And, yeah, it's okay for the victims of this offense to take it personally and to say it like they mean that they, personally, are pissed off, and that an apology should be directed to him or her, personally.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

13. I'm sure there are other activists ready and willing to comment but

but Sharpton's the guy in everyone's rolodexes. We hear from him because the media calls on him.

[Ikonoklast]

16. Rev. Al may be wrong on a lot of things,

but this is not one of them.

He has every right to feel outrage, if not for himself, on behalf of those who won't speak up out of fear of being called 'overly sensitive'.

[sandnsea]

20. Rev Al is right on most things

and really incredibly brainwashed people let the elite powers dupe them into hating him for a couple of times when he's been wrong.

[GodlessBiker]

23. I agree. He is fighting for gay marriage when many others won't take up that cause.

He has been wrong in the past, but I think he has learned from his mistakes.

He sees where the arch of freedom is heading.

[xchrom]

24. racist OP as far a i'm concerned.

but i'm a party of one.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. No, you're not.

[Bicoastal]

29. Ok, why?

[MadBadger]

33. Because xchrom said so? Duuuuuhhh

[xchrom]

36. what ever. nt

[Bicoastal]

39. Xchrom, if you think what I wrote was racist, explain why and I will defend OR retract it.

But this is no way to win an argument.

[xchrom]

41. if you can't figure why this is racist -- you're lost.

i'm not here to do yours or anyones evolutionary home work.

and if you'll notice i'm not the only one.

i just said so.

[Bicoastal]

45. That's no answer and you know it. Now you OWE me an explanation. The burden of proof is on YOU.

[xchrom]

50. you posted it. nt

[Bicoastal]

61. Yes, and YOU and the other person posted that I was racist. But *I* explained myself.

Why won't you?

[MadBadger]

46. Just tell him what you think is racist. This "If you cant see it, you're lost" bullshit is pathetic

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. I think he really can see it.

He just posted it anyway.

[Bicoastal]

57. This is really getting childish. We ARE a nation of cowards when it comes to race.

I've been wrong before, and when that's been pointed out, I usually admit it. I'm not without prejudice--no one is.

But I spent three or four paragraphs outlining why I dislike Al Sharpton. The rebuttal has been two words long: "You're racist." You OWE me an explanation. I'm willing to concede IF you can tell me why.

[xchrom]

53. i said i was a party of one -- but that's not good enough for you?

bite me.

[treestar]

63. Then Holder was right, since you won't talk about it

Maybe he meant you, too?

[Bicoastal]

25. oop n/t

[rd_kent]

30. Thats why he and the others make such a fuss!

Its only grandstanding in an effort to become relevant again. I think they thought with the election of a black man to the presidency, they would automatically be included, and that has not turned out to be the case.

[RepublicanElephant]

32. one man's annoyance is another man's hero. nt

[hlthe2b]

40. As he said, he's an activist. That's what activists do!

[AlCzervik]

52. So he should shut it and hopefully someone will come along that doesn't annoy you

and speak up about what a racist cartoon that is? The cartoon isn't just about Obama.

[Bicoastal]

58. But it isn't JUST him speaking out about that racist cartoon--far from it. He's just the one who

gets the most media attention.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. He is the one getting the most attention...

because he is the one the crazy racist RW loves to hate.

[AlCzervik]

66. that's besides the point, he did something and it attracted more attention to the cartoon

itself and to the Post. I'm glad he did what he did.

[Starry Messenger]

56. It is not Sharpton's problem that the conservatives don't like him.

Why should that be his fault? I think his heart is in the right place and he cares about the community. Pitting him against Obama is weird. It suggests that there is only one right way to care about this incident.

If Conservatives are treating like a punching bag it is up to us to rally to him, not let him stand out in front and take the blows. He's a brave man. I don't always agree with him either, but why do we throw him under the bus whenever he takes a stand for what is right?

[grantcart]

62. unlike you or most of us here Sharpton is a flawed charachter.

I like him and I admire him more than Jesse Jackson who has tried to sell himself to corporate America.


Has he made some missteps, well if you count stepping on the occassional landmine, then yes.


Listen to him carefully and you will see he is smarter than the charachater that is captured in the media (and that he sometimes plays).

[Bicoastal]

76. GRANTCART, I HAVE WRITTEN A NEW OP BASED ON WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8211293&mesg_id=8211293

I'd delete this OP if I could--now I can't. But you're absolutely right, and I just might be wrong on Al.

[ContraBass Black]

84. If you want to get rid of this one, alert on it and request a lock.

[Danger Mouse]

72. I don't like Sharpton either, but he is right this time.

[Aloha Spirit]

78. Here's what I think of your post: (kinda long)

Edit--Bicoastal, thanks for being that rare person who can change their mind.

Here he is again, heading (with great fanfare)
That's how you get attention. It's more effective than the activism that most of us pursue.
full-tilt into another racial controversy
Do you just ignore it when people publicly insult your community?
as if this whole incident was all about HIM
this is your unsubstantiated opinion... He is a representative for many who otherwise would not feel represented. You probably feel comfortably represented by your elected politicians. Other communities do not enjoy that satisfaction.,
not Obama or black people in general. Why must all apologies (or requests for apologies) be requested by and delivered to Sharpton?
This is nonsense to me?
How is he qualified to do this, anyway?
He is a minister who many in his community entrust with vocalizing and bringing attention to their concerns.

He has been dead wrong now on several embarrassing occasions
He has been right many, many, many times. And this is where, in my opinion, your argument is most vulnerable to attack. Prejudiced people ignore information that casts doubt on their prejudices. You don't know much about Al, yet have such strong, negative opinions. You prefer black leaders who are less confrontational... Why is that, do you think?
--occasionally saying things nearly as offensive as the racism he protests against
If the Mormon Church doesn't think it owes black people or women an apology, then, he doesn't owe them one.
--and at worst, his involvement always brings an unwanted level of flamboyance
WTF
and celebrity to any incident he gets involved with.
Unwanted? You sure about that? With any nonviolent protest, success REQUIRES attention. I think you meant different words, not unwanted/flamboyant/celebrity. If you meant those words, do provide an example.
What's especially ludicrous about this situation is that the subject of the undeniably offensive NY Post cartoon is President Barack Obama, a black man who is much more powerful and level-headed than Sharpton has ever been. Obama gets results; do you think the President feels he really needs the Rev. Al Sharpton's help on this one?
This is so wrong. Anyone who belongs to any community, ethnic, cultural, or otherwise, can take offense indirectly when someone of that community is publicly insulted. I was personally offended by that cartoon even though it was not about me. Was I wrong to be offended and add my voice to those demanding an apology from the Post? And it is DEFINITELY not appropriate for Obama to be inserting himself into this. Here's the deal. You don't like the way Al operates. You are embarrassed for some strange reason. Stop being embarrassed, and think more deeply about why he makes you uncomfortable. If what you don't like is the response that he engenders from the media and Conservatives, then here's a question: Why do you critique him and not those very conservatives and media people who are doing the thing that you don't like? Please read about nonviolent activism and learn why it is important to get the public's attention through provocative means.

I'll admit it--I'm not black. I have no idea how the majority of the African-American community in this country feels about Sharpton today, and I won't presume to guess. But these tense incidents of ignorance and racism always seem to spiral out of control once Al gets involved, because suddenly the Conservatives have an easy punching bag to rally the base with. That alone isn't enough to make me wish he wouldn't materialize every time a racial controversy erupts, but as a self-proclaimed leader of his community, he really should let younger, cooler heads prevail at this point in his career.

Do you see anything funny about criticizing someone for boldly and publicly addressing racism while at the same time claiming that you don't want to be a coward about racism?

(No need to reach for the Pop Secret--I brought some myself.)
Haha! That's like, calling your own post a flamebait... awesome.

[damonm]

79. Check it - he just made a New thread titled Mea Culpa.

[Bicoastal]

80. Yeah, you're mostly right--I honestly regret that I can't delete or even edit

what I wrote earlier. Now I don't think what I wrote was racist, as some alleged--just a little ignorant.

[Beacool]

82. I can't stand Sharpton.

He has cried wolf so many times that he dilutes any message that he tries to get across. I'll stop and listen to what Rev. Jackson has to say, but not Sharpton.

x(

[Phx_Dem]

83. I like Al Sharpton. I haven't always liked everything he's said or done

but he's smart and, more often than not, on the right side of things.

Jesse Jackson is another thing altogether. He annoys me so much I can't even listen to him.

[BuyingThyme]

85. Go Al!

:woohoo:

[AZ Criminal JD]

87. Sharpton is a race baiter of the worst sort

People seem to forget he started an antisemitic riot in 1991 which resulted in the murder of a Jewish resident. Sharpton told a crowd that the "diamond merchants" -- code for Jews -- must be stopped and they had "the blood of innocent babies" on their hands. He mobilized hundreds of demonstrators to march through a Jewish neighborhood, chanting, "No justice, no peace." A rabbinical student, Yankel Rosenbaum, was surrounded by a mob shouting "Kill the Jews!" and stabbed to death.

[spanone]

88. whatever, he didn't draw the cartoon in the post..,.that's racist rupert murdoch

mr. sharpton pointed it out.

[Aloha Spirit]

89. That is false.

[AZ Criminal JD]

90. Whatever you say, Al