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That was fast. Obama tax cuts take effect.

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creature of habit Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:10 PM
Original message
That was fast. Obama tax cuts take effect.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gP2ERpOu3fU1YiYhBanIo6Yusfsw



does any person have the run down of what this means for per family size and adjusted gross income??



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creature of habit Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Minneapolis*St Paul Minnesota StarTribune
http://www.startribune.com/politics/40025082.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUJ



Taxpayers won't get a separate check mailed to them like many did with last year's one-time payment designed by the Bush administration to help boost the economy.

Instead, Obama's credit — up to $400 credit for individuals and up to $800 credit for married couples — is to be doled out through the rest of the year through paychecks. Most workers are to see about a $13 per week increase in their take-home pay. In 2010, the credit would be about $7.70 a week, if it is spread over the entire year.

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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. So, you have to be working to see that $
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creature of habit Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. pre election but still worthy


http://alchemytoday.com/obamataxcut/




everything else is rising disproportionately. This week alone I paid for registration renewal (41.00 dollars), excise tax $48.75, paid 89.00 dollars to the state for my 2008 return, got my van aligned $69.00 (i live in Mass where you have to do that every six months or suffer premature tire wear) or live and work in Boston and not own a car; and I got kicked of off MassCare and my health insurance went up by 208.00 a month.

I'm just glad to be employed and able to keep my head above water. At any time tho I feel as I could drown in a big wave.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-21-09 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. No. The tax tables have been adjusted.
Unemployed folks get theirs through increased benefits.
The Self Employed can pay less in estimated taxes quarterly.
If you are one of the working poor, who is eligible for EIC in your paycheck,
you will also see an increase, even if you don't pay Income taxes.
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creature of habit Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm not eligible for EIC


I'm somewhere right below the low middle and I believe I'm being screwed.

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Screwed by whom?
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creature of habit Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
7.  the state of Mass for one
I think 41 fucking dollars to renew my registration is theft. We have worse roads than Texas and down there they are made of dirt. I know because I've been there.

My state taxes are higher than the Fed. So far I think President Obama is doing the very best he can under near unprecedented circumstances.


I would not mind paying a higher gas tax as our Gov. (Patrick) has proposed nor would I mind paying a larger sales tax now currently 5%. (Isn't California 6%? now ;that's what it was when I lived there) If i believed the money would be properly managed and spent instead of going to the pinky ringed unions and corrupt pols "friends" pockets everywhere in this state.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. California is 7.25% statewide, but as high as 8.75% in larger cities like San Francisco.
But then, the San Francisco Minimum wage is something like $9.79 per hour.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. Useless.
The tax cuts come out to be about $10 per week. Next to useless. It would be far more useful to keep this money and provide everybody universal single payer healthcare. It is a simple political gimmick to silence rethuglicans. Little economic value and arguably economically irresponsible.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. I disagree with you, and say so,
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. Emotional argument not backed up by history
Sorry, you're arguments are not backed up by historical economic data. First, tax cuts aren't tax cuts right now--they are simply increased borrowing from the Chinese. Second, the tax cuts aren't an "immediate stimulus" because they are designed to be $10 per week vs. the Bush one time stimulus checks that didn't stimulate the economy at all. These tax cuts are deliberately designed this way because the Obama's economic advisors hope that people will actually spend these on goods and services vs. just paying off debt or saving (which is what happened to the Bush tax stimulus checks). An ipso facto argument that the last stimulus checks didn't work as designed.

What is better? $10 per week or bridges that don't collapse and encourage commerce? $10 per week or doubling pell grants for college? $10 per week or covering every child in the country for healthcare? $10 per week or staving off all foreclosures for the next 3 years?

Economic stimulus is about choices within a budget constraint. What gives you the biggest bang for the buck?


An excellent discussion of the assumptions used by the Obama administration and the bang for the buck calculations:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-fi-stimulus-analysis17-2009jan17,0,7595473.story

Tax cuts as engines of economic growth, not! http://www.cbpp.org/9-27-06tax.htm

Historical data correlating tax rates vs. economic prosperity. http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-taxgrowth.htm

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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Second, the tax cuts aren't an "immediate stimulus" because they are designed to be $10 per week
Sorry, I see it differently....Perhaps as an accountant, I understand why the administration believes that the $13 dollars a week won't be saved, which was the problem with the last stimulus, folks saved it or paid down debt. It is harder to do that with $13 than with a $300 check.

---------------

A Congressional Budget Office report indicates tax cuts and other benefits for low- and middle-income households are more than three times as effective stimulus as tax cuts for high-income households, the administration said.

The bill also ensures that a family working full-time can raise their children above the poverty line, administration officials said. Currently a family of four with one parent working full time at the minimum wage is about $400 below the poverty line, the White House said. In the same circumstances under the stimulus plan, the family would get $800 from the Making Work Pay tax credit and about $1,200 in additional refundable child tax credits.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/02/17/Stimuluss_tax_breaks_help_middle_class/UPI-11111234905397/

Boosting the Middle Class
Along with the dual collapse of the housing and financial markets, the middle class squeeze played a major role the current economic precariousness. Wages have not kept pace with productivity or with the health and retirement security costs employers have shifted to workers. As a result, the average working family has been forced to take on substantial home equity or credit card debt in recent years to try to maintain living standards. The absence of a firm foundation for middle class prosperity meant that economic growth from 2003 to 2007 was possible only because of the economy's bubble tendency and the excessive reliance on borrowing at every level.

Boosting the middle class through higher wages and increased economic security involves such things as passage of the Employee Free Choice Act that will remove barriers imposed by the current labor law system that frustrate workers' efforts to join unions.

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Program is an essential step for the U.S. to take in pulling the economy out of this historic slump. As the House leadership's version of ARRP is negotiated in the House and with the Senate, it is critical that the provisions aiding states and low-income populations remain the centerpiece and that any business tax cuts be limited. To achieve a balanced and long-lasting prosperity, however, other actions will be needed to resolve the housing crisis and to rebuild the middle class. Without such policies, the recovery and reinvestment plan might create a short-term rebound but one that will fizzle out after two or three years.

The new administration gives every indication that it is aware of the need for these complementary actions. Time will tell whether it can achieve initial success on the economic recovery front and build the political support to turn recovery into sustained prosperity.

James Parrott is deputy director and chief economist of the Fiscal Policy Institute. He has been studying and writing about the New York economy since he landed in New York City a quarter century ago.
http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/economy/20090122/21/2805

But even if they are, the Obama administration faces a much harder task, too: creating jobs that won't disappear once a bridge is fixed. What's needed are millions of permanent jobs that would put legions of laid-off people back to work for years to come.

It's too soon to know whether many of the 2.5 million jobs the president-elect has said he intends to "save or create" within his first two years would become permanent. And with economic signs worsening, Obama wants to raise the goal to 3 million jobs, a presidential transition official said.

For now, given the depth of the recession, the Obama plan focuses on the early months.

By embracing projects already in the pipeline and stressing infrastructure repairs, parts of the plan could roll out soon -- perhaps within weeks -- creating jobs and stirring economic activity. That way, the new administration also buys time to allocate money for other projects that might take years to complete.

"Looking after the existing infrastructure is not as exciting as cutting ribbons on new projects, but it could generate jobs quickly," Martin Baily, who served as President Bill Clinton's top economist and is now at the Brookings Institution, told Congress.

Economists say the combination of tax cuts and infrastructure spending could deliver a quick one-two punch against the recession: the faster-acting tax breaks, plus the time-released benefits of infrastructure spending.
http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2008/12/will_obamas_stimulus_work_fast.html

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creature of habit Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. so are you saying the 600 I got from Bushwa was useless too??

I spent that MF'er right quick. It went into the "underground,under the table, off the books economy" , still the money I paid another person circulated around.



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creature of habit Donating Member (144 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
12.  I see what you are saying..........
Massachusetts:

I just got kicked off of my current health care plan - It was because of projected gross income which I may not meet. In the meantime I need a plan or be penalized. It went up by 279 % .

Yes , . If the feds would keep that money and provide a plan with a reasonable deductible than I might support it.
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Bingo.
That is exactly what I'm saying. Technically speaking, the multiplier effects of the federal government keeping the tax dollars (which really aren't tax dollars but are borrowed dollars from China) and spending them on single payer healthcare (ala medicaid) would vastly surpass the multiplier effects of $10 a week spent on say food and energy.

There is little margin for error in resurrecting this economy right now. Every billion dollars needs to be used for the biggest bang for the buck or catastrophe is inevitable.
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Baikonour Donating Member (979 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 03:14 AM
Response to Original message
15. If you're on SSI or some other form of benefits, will you see this money too? nt
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-09 03:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Wow! I thought it wasn't until June
This is awesome that they are getting this going to quickly! I won't get any direct help from any of this, but my kids will and that's good enough for me!
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