Good bye Churchill hello Abe

[AllentownJake]

http://www.newsweek.com/id/185839

Has America's even- tempered new president already ruffled feathers in the land that spawned Borat and Benny Hill? That's certainly how the spiky British press responded after the White House sent back to the British Embassy a bust of Sir Winston Churchill that had occupied a cherished spot in President Bush's Oval Office. Intended as a symbol of transatlantic solidarity, the bust was a loaner from former British prime minister Tony Blair following the September 11 attacks. A bust of Abraham Lincoln—Obama's historical hero—now sits in its place. A White House spokesperson says the Churchill bust was removed before Obama's inauguration as part of the usual changeover operations, adding that every president puts his own stamp on the Oval Office.
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Personally I think Churchill was the leader Brittain needed in WWII but the rest of his time in politics is one of total imperialism. Like any historical figure he's a mixed bag.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Churchill was batshit crazy, but the right guy at the right time. No doubt about that.

[Zynx]

3. You're absolutely right. He was wrong on virtually everything else except the Nazis.

It's a big thing to be right on and it does cancel out everything else he did. Chamberlain and Baldwin before him were absolute disasters.

[AllentownJake]

6. Doesn't cancel it out

He was right about Hitler, but he was also an imperialist who tried to keep the entire third world in slavery.

The only difference between Winston and Hitler is Winston didn't have concentration camps.

Winston wanted to rob countries of their resources in favor of Brittain and enslave their people just as bad as Hitler did for Germany. Winston was in favor of liberty for his own people...just not the rest of the people in the world. Hitler was in favor of liberty for no one.

[Zynx]

7. The one thing I will say about that is that the Nazis were the single

most vile regime in human history by a wide margin. Churchill understood what they were before nearly everyone. The important thing is that he was not in power for most of the years when decolonization was occurring. His views on empire were unquestionably backward, but he was not comparable to Hitler.

[AllentownJake]

13. I'll take back the comparison to Hitler

However we are still dealing with some of his disastrous post war policies to this day.

[acmavm]

20. Oh, you wouldn't or couldn't possibly mean Russia, could you?

BIG mistakes in dealing with Russia. Big, big, big.

[Captain Hilts]

8. If you can get a copy of it, read "Dinner at the White House." by Adamic.

So accurate, Churchill sued and won.

Adamic was an anti-imperialist and the Roosevelts - anti-imperialists both - invited him to the last dinner at the WH before Churchill went home in Jan '42 so that he would have a better understanding of how the US felt about the issue. Yes, the Rs liked to stir up trouble.

[AllentownJake]

5. He was a disaster after the war ended

Part of FDR's conditions for helping Brittain was the end of Brittish Imperialism in the third world...After FDR died old Winston got Truman to reverse that position.

Imagine how much better the world would have been if Ho Chi Mihn...a guy who originally wanted to establish an American style democracy in Vietnam was allowed to lead his country instead of Winston's insistence of returning it to the French that potrayal led to Ho's embrace of communism...there are also examples all throughout the Middle East of Churchill's hands in setting up the despots who bowed to Brittish/American oil interest instead of moderate governments...

Alot of the problems we deal with in the world today are due to old Winston and his imperialistic philosphies.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. The key word in the article is "loaner"

The bust was on loan to us for the Bush Presidency only. Obama was following protocol by returning it. No big deal here, except amongst right wingers who want to read all sorts of craziness into it.

[Captain Hilts]

9. Agree. Perhaps it might have been nice to return it on the anniversary of VE day. Have a warship

such as the USS WINSTON S. CHURCHILL return it arriving on May 8th.

OR have Michelle take it back personally.

Our relations with England have taken a hit. There are opportunities here.

[Beacool]

16. The British offered to extend the loan, but the WH returned it nonetheless.

I wonder why, even if they didn't intend to leave he bust in the Oval Office. It would have seemed more diplomatic to say yes.

:-)

[Captain Hilts]

19. They should have the USS WINSTON CHURCHILL return it. nt

[Beacool]

21. It appears that the bust is at the British embassy right now.

I don't know why the WH didn't just keep the damn thing and shoved it someone else's office if they didn't want it in the Oval Office.

:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

23. Yes, it's at the embassy. We should have the CHURCHILL ferry it at home...

recreating a route Churchill had taken.

[babylonsister]

4. I missed bustgate. But that (finally!) explains this,

or maybe why Churchill is being mentioned.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/house-republicans/eric-cantors-mentors/

Eric Cantor’s Role Models: Newt Gingrich And Winston Churchill

Yesterday the news broke that GOP House minority whip Eric Cantor — who helped lead the GOP in unanimous opposition to the stimulus package — is modeling his approach to political combat with Dems on Newt Gingrich’s performance as House GOP leader in the 1990s.

Cantor is apparently taking advice directly from Gingrich, and the revelation prompted some critics to ask why Cantor is making an apparent role model out of someone with a spotty record of success and a history of extreme partisanship.

more...

[Captain Hilts]

10. Clementine Churchill was a complete left wing liberal, like Eleanor.

[babylonsister]

11. Really! I didn't know that, thanks. I wonder if Cantor

knows that? :D

[Captain Hilts]

14. He doesn't know much of anything important, does he?

[Beacool]

17. Yes, she was.

Two remarkable women.

;)

[Captain Hilts]

18. Yes, one known for being beautiful, the other for not,...

and both had relationships with men in the 1930s, who were not their husbands! Go girls!

Clementine would argue politics with WSC usually in written notes. He wasn't accustomed to dealing with it face to face, as he did Eleanor. I oddly think he liked it as ER noted he never failed to bring up their argument about the Spanish Civil War. No doubt Clementine was on ER's side on that one.

Like ER, Clementine also disliked a lot of the men around her husband. Brendan Bracken, for one.

[Beacool]

22. Mookie, you know your Clementine history!!

Fascinating women, both of them.

;-)

[Raine]

12. Churchill was great during the war

but after that ... :thumbsdown:

[cooolandrew]

15. If it's a rejection of Tony Blair that's fine by me. I don't think the UK should take this to heart>

just change of scenery. Besides as a Labor leader Tony should of sent Britain's new deal advocate Clement Attlee.

[Odin2005]

24. He was a good war leader, decent historian, but a horrible domestic policy-maker.

The Brits dumped him for Labour, which created Britain's modern welfare state.

[Captain Hilts]

25. The White Paper and all that. it was progress. Yes. Did they have a GIBill type thing?

I know Canada did.

I don't think England did. They were pretty much broke after the war.