Why is Obama's DoJ Afraid of Forcing Rove/Miers/Bolton to Follow the Law?

[tekisui]

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit today gave the Obama administration another week to decide its course in a case involving one of President George W. Bush’s most expansive claims of executive privilege.

The briefing schedule has changed three times in the last two weeks, after two motions by the Justice Department for more time to allow for an out-of-court settlement in the House of Representatives' lawsuit against former White House counsel Harriet Miers and chief of staff Joshua Bolten. The Justice Department now has until March 4 to file its opening brief in the case.

The House sued last year for documents and testimony related to the firings of nine U.S. attorneys. Bush asserted that his former aides are absolutely immune to congressional demands, a position he maintains to this day, even after exiting office. U.S. District Judge John Bates rejected the claim, setting up the appeal. The Justice Department’s opening brief in the case was originally due on Feb. 18, but the department filed a motion for a two-week extension on Feb. 15, citing ongoing negotiations among White House Counsel Gregory Craig, Bush’s lawyer, Emmet Flood, and House General Counsel Irvin Nathan.

http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/02/court-gives-obama-an-extention-in-subpoena-case.html

_____________________________________________________________________
Obama's DoJ gets a third extension to decide whether or not these criminals must obey the law? They are hoping for a settlement. WHY? Why not force them? Why not make them defend their contempt in court?

I just don't get it.

[peace13]

1. I hope that Obama is smart enough to know that he will not get the same consideration.

If he thinks he is playing along to get along he will be sadly surprised in 8 years when he is called in to answer questions with no special consideration or extensions given. I can't figure it out. Obama seems to want to hide the * fraud as much as * does. Dear Mr. President, the American people want the truth to be heard. Remember we are adults and can take the bad news. We are paying for the mistakes, we could at least know what they are. Peace, Kim

[liberalsince1968]

2. Obama is supporting the Bush administration in every lawbreaking instance...emails, torture,

etc.

I don't think there will ever be an explanation. And there really couldn't be one, because there is simply to justifiable reason for it.

Obama is following in Bush's footsteps. It is tragic, outrageous, and mystifying.

[Vincardog]

87. That is why we have to force our Congress Critters to make him prosecute the BCF traitors.

[acmavm]

3. Too many crooked dems in on the deal. What dem has made the

most money off the Iraq war? Do you know?

I do.

[tekisui]

4. Feinstein?

[acmavm]

52. SURPRISE!

<SNIP>

The Investors: Lawmakers with the most money invested in companies with Department of Defense contracts

Member of Congress Minimum Value of Investment Maximum Value of Investment
Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass) $28,872,067 $38,209,020
Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen (R-NJ) $12,081,050 $49,140,000
Rep. Robin Hayes (R-NC) $9,232,037 $37,105,000
Rep. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis) $5,207,668 $7,612,653
Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif) $2,684,050 $6,260,000
Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich) $2,469,029 $8,360,000
Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D-WVa) $2,000,002 $2,000,002
Rep. Tom Petri (R-Wis) $1,365,004 $5,800,000
Rep. Kenny Ewell Marchant (R-Texas) $1,163,231 $1,163,231
Rep. John Carter (R-Texas) $1,000,001 $5,000,000
http://votersforpeace.us/press/index.php?itemid=151
<SNIP>
______________________________________________________________
<SNIP>
Members of Congress Milk War Investments
Share: by moonwolf | April 3, 2008 at 03:19 pm
443 views | 0 Recommendations | 3 comments
Members of the U.S.Congress have as much as $196 million (€126.2 million) collectively invested in companies doing business with the Defense Department, earning millions since the start of the Iraq war, according to a new study by a nonpartisan research group.

The review of lawmakers' 2006 financial disclosure statements, by the Washington-based Center for Responsive Politics, suggests that members' holdings could pose a conflict of interest as they decide the fate of Iraq war spending. Several members who earned the most from defense contractors have plum committee or leadership assignments, including Democratic Sen. John Kerry, independent Sen. Joseph Lieberman and House Republican Whip Roy Blunt.
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/members-congress-milk-war-investments

[Tatiana]

39. DiFi? n/t

[acmavm]

53. Sorry, check my reply right about your post.

[ima_sinnic]

5. obama has lost my support. he is just the flip side of the bushco coin

I will NOT vote for him again. Third party, baby.

[DevonRex]

6. Then you need to find another site.

[liberalsince1968]

7. We call out any OTHER Democrat for supporting Bush - why is Obama different?

He's worse, since he's the president and should be the one setting the policy. But his policy is kowtowing to Bush the same as the dems did for 8 years.

And I put the blame on him for it - he is in charge.

[DevonRex]

9. Guess you missed this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8220619&mesg_id=8220619

Obama is doing a lot of great stuff. The poster above us has decided that he/she no longer supports Obama and will not vote for him in the future and that he'll vote 3rd party just because the DOJ has requested an extension. I question whether he/she supported Obama in the first place.

[liberalsince1968]

35. Obama's DoJ agreeing with Bush's DoJ on secrecy completely overrides that for me.

[DevonRex]

36. So you drew your imaginary line in the sand. That's it then for you.

Nothing else matters. I'd say that puts you in the category of sinnic above.

I mean, really, there's nothing else for you to debate here. There is nothing else Obama can do that will change your mind. It's a done deal for you. Finished. Over. The fat lady sang.

No need to read your posts anymore. We know what you'll say. You made up your mind. You've washed your hands of him.

[liberalsince1968]

40. I don't give a shit what you say.

[DevonRex]

42. That's nice.

:eyes:

[dionysus]

45. as he shakes his fist at the monitor, cheetoh stained fingers trembling madly

:rofl:

[firedupdem]

47. Stop!! LOL!!!

:rofl:

[SunsetDreams]

56. HOLY SMOKES!!

OMG I'm dying here, thanks for making me spew coffee!!

[liberalsince1968]

63. I'm a woman. And I don't worship politicians blindly. That's too much like Bush lovers.

[dionysus]

64. well... enjoy the cheetohs anyways.

:shrug:

[liberalsince1968]

67. Your gang mentality doesn't impress me.

[dionysus]

68. oh now i'm in a gang? keep it rolling, this is great!!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[DevonRex]

75. Ah, the "worship" meme. So original.

[dionysus]

81. did your local cult manager give you your daily ration of hope dust to snort?

i get mine by the truckload :hi:

[DevonRex]

83. Of course. And I received my portable Obama alter today by UPS.

:hi:

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

89. oh shit...

:spray:

[firedupdem]

93. PretzelWarrior is not having it today! n/t

[acmavm]

55. I read that post. Big deal. He's skating around the issue and trying

to play us again. Just like Clinton did.

This country, no let me be more exact, this PLANET cannot afford anymore of this ass-kissing 'let's move on' bullshit. Our kids and grandkids deserve better than the lying sticky fingered asswipes of both parties in Washington that have been sucking the life out of this country.

[DevonRex]

57. I guess Obama is just a failure then. We're doomed.

[acmavm]

58. We will be. So will our kids and our grandkids and on and on.

If we don't investigate and punish, you can kiss this country goodbye. Because they'll be back.

[dionysus]

60. unfortunately, it would be MONUMENTALLY STUPID to center obama's administration on prosecuting the

BFEE.

Imagine 4 years of a circus, the economy not getting fixed, and obama out on his ass.

Bush may be the most unpopular president in history, but throwing him and cheney in prison (an i dea i personally love) is not a winning idea with the public.

[acmavm]

61. You thing this has something to do with bush** being

UNPOPULAR???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Name removed]

62. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GreenPartyVoter]

71. I hear that. We need BIG changes. GOOD changes. Obama's not evil or anything, he's just

not going as far as I would like to see in these desperate times.

People who jump down our throats over worrying about whether or not we're moving fast enough or in the right direction are more interested in pennant waving than anything else.

[ima_sinnic]

91. "just because the DOJ requested an extension"? wrong!

-- idiotic, counterproductive cabinet choices (Judd Gregg is a prime example) representing heavy DLC and repuke status-quo lovers and predatory capitalists, with not even a crumb thrown to progressives, his "base" and those who really pounded the pavement to get him elected
-- maintaining the bushco line on bushco's missing e-mails
-- obama's folly in afghanistan
-- taxpayer giveaway to Wall St.
-- pandering and caving to republikkkans, allowing stimulus bill to be watered down and compromised
-- maintaining bushco line on "trials" of Gitmo detainees after saying (dishonestly, apparently) that they would all be released--refuses to relent in case of Binyar Mohamed
-- retaining bushco's attorneys in the DOJ -- does that sound like someone who will be pursuing war crimes and treason trials against anybody??
-- MAINTAINING RENDITIONS
-- in light of all of the above, he is most likely NOT going to pursue any kind of justice against bushco -- which makes him complicit in war crimes and treason.

Kucinich was my first choice, but I voted for Obama in the primaries and in the GE, since that was the choice we were give by the PTB.

But who I supported is none of your goddam business. This is not communist russia, where we must all toe the party line and call each other comrade. This is not the first time I have called out obama as a Trojan horse. If he is complicit in war crimes, how can I support him? you are free to support whomever you want, but skip the holier-than-thou BULLSHIT about my "support." I don't have to pass your committedness test. Wake up, you have been had, as have all people who unwittingly voted to continue the war crimes while being lulled by BULLSHIT about "change." He appears to care more about the repukes and not "making them mad" than he does about We The People

[dionysus]

92. i should have known.... you're one of those travelocity gnome fans!!!!

:spray:

[ima_sinnic]

95. gee. that's a very, er, "thoughtful" post? did you strain yr brain cell with that?

calling Kucinich a "gnome" says nothing about him, but everything about you, as in shallow, judging by appearance, easily fooled by RW spin and bullshit name-calling. Do you know anything at all about his ideas, what he has done, and what he could do that would be light years ahead of Obama?

But that would be a true "people's president," rather than the corporatist's president. We couldn't have that, now, could we?

[dionysus]

96. no, i just knew it would piss you off. kooch is pretty cool. totally unelectable, but cool

:hi:

[ima_sinnic]

98. "unelectable"? ironic, that is what was said about Obama

people are "unelectable" only because of criminal manipulation by the media.

[DevonRex]

94. Wow. That's a pretty strange post.

[ima_sinnic]

97. "strange" in what way? you find it "strange" that people are offended by complicity w war crimes?

hey, be my guest and lap up that torture!

O DID say that "there would be no more torture," but I guess he was just kidding, since he plainly wants to continue with rendition flights. He was also just kidding on his first day in office, when he said he'd restore the rule of law and bring the respect of the rest of the world back to the U.S. Meanwhile, the ACLU is once again outraged and shocked at what he is doing re "trials" of Gitmo detainees.

[dionysus]

100. maybe it's strange because it was nearly unintelligible gibberish full of lies

:shrug:

[DevonRex]

99. You announced it to the world that you do NOT support the democratic president

in a thread about the DoJ asking for an extension. And since YOU are the one who announced your nonsupport, you MADE it our business. Until then I didn't know you don't support him and couldn't have cared less.

Your Trojan horse theory is kind of wacky.

[dionysus]

101. if you set up a PAC to elect nader or kucinich i'll contribute for kicks

just as long as you roll it out here.

That thread will be priceless!!

:rofl:

[Window]

Absolutely! That President Obama is the worst president ever!

Thirty plus days on the job and he's done nothing except follow in *ush's footsteps. I should have voted for McCain/Palin. Oh, my. Whatever will I do.


:sarcasm:

[firedupdem]

33. All of your 103 posts have been extremely negative. n/t

[liberalsince1968]

34. And I'll KEEP being negative until I see some sign that Obama doesn't agree with all Bush's secrecy.

And so far, I have seen very few signs that he doesn't. ALL the evidence is on the other side.

And if you don't like my posts, too bad.

[firedupdem]

38. No, it's too bad for you! You'll slip up soon and be out of here so

it really doesn't matter.

[liberalsince1968]

41. "Slip up soon"? Who died and made you God?

[dionysus]

43. with your attitude, you'll earn yourself a tombstone pretty quickly

DU just won't be the same without ya....

:rofl:

[firedupdem]

46. It's coming soon!

:rofl:

[dionysus]

48. we may have to shut down GD:P, how can we handle such a loss!!1?1

:spray:

[liberalsince1968]

65. I'm not the one threatening people.

[dionysus]

66. oh, you consider pointing out the rules a threat? FFS

i wouldn't even alert on your posts, it's better to chuckle at them.


:rofl:

[firedupdem]

44. oh boy....

:eyes:

[jenmito]

86. It's called the "alert" button.

[dionysus]

16. i seem to recall you never liked him anyways.

have fun with the green party, and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out chump.

:hi:

[DevonRex]

19. I was kinda hopin' the door DOES hit him on the ass. :)

[dionysus]

21. door... tombstone.. i guess either one will suffice!

:hi:

[DevonRex]

24. Heh heh.

:hi: and :hug:

I'm in a huggy mood today and you're the first recipient! :)

[dionysus]

32. yay!

:)

[tekisui]

23. Don't be ridiculous.

They are far from two sides of the same coin.

[avaistheone1]

26. You are still welcome here as far as I am concerned.

And hopefully this is still America.

[DevonRex]

30. The rules say we are expected to "generally support" the guy.

The poster clearly stated that he does NOT even "generally" support him.

[dionysus]

37. ever read those board rules where you need to be supportive of democrats here?

i'd like to see sinnic start campaigning for 3rd party candidates here. starting today, as far as i am concerned.

i wanna see how it works out...

:rofl:

[DevonRex]

49. Where'd you go sinnic? Can't defend your "flip side" comment?

[dionysus]

50. sinnic is waiting for nader to come swooping down in his magic corvair and provide some backup!

:silly:

[DevonRex]

51. Oh, if only Nader had been president! HE is the REAL savior!

:sarcasm: and :rofl:

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lunatica]

8. Good question. Ya know if it looks like it and smells like it and acts like maybe it's it.

This is out of character for the Obama policy of open government. It sticks out like a black cat sitting on snow. There's something there that they don't want us to know about. And it must be big. Maybe President Obama's cabinet isn't complicit, but they're sure hiding something. Up to now Obama has made sense in his decisions and in his explanations, but in this he doesn't. Why?

[Captain Hilts]

10. Good question. No good reason is the answer. And Conyers is a wimp. nt

[tekisui]

11. I don't see the political risk here.

It is an easy ruling to make. Rove/miers/bolton are not immune from subpoenas. How hard is that call to make?

[Captain Hilts]

13. Conyers is rolling over and playing dead and the Admin is letting him do so. nt

[treestar]

12. It takes reading the actual briefs and cases to know what is really going on

It is some legal issue that the media will not bring out.

There would be nothing wrong with Obama claiming executive privilege where it is legitimate. They have to figure out where that line is crossed or is not, by the Bush Administration.

No lawyer would want to take over and file and just start talking without reading it and without figuring out the issues and researching them. That might take more than a month.

[DevonRex]

14. There you go being reasonable again. And this OP has already attracted one poster

who doesn't support Obama anymore because of it.

[tekisui]

18. Like a moth to a flame.

It was a reasonable response, but I think erroneous. The question of executive privilege does not extend to ignoring subpoenas, and that shouldn't be an issue. They should be made to stand trial, at that point they can challenge the questions on the privilege claim.

[DevonRex]

22. Hey teki. I don't think that response was reasonable in any way.

[tekisui]

25. I was talking about DevonRex's post.

Not the one falling on his sword to end his support of Obama.

I should have been clearer.

[DevonRex]

28. Aww. Thank you teki.

I have another headache so I might have jumped the gun.

And I think your question is a reasonable one to ask. I don't want you to come away thinking that I want you to shut up and not ask questions. I just got kind of ticked off at that guy above.

:hug:

[tekisui]

31. Understood.

:hi: :hug:

[tekisui]

15. As I have read it, though, they are trying to 'settle' it.

The DoJ and the lawyers of the three stooges are negotiating a way to have some type of exchange of information without having to follow the procedure.

The real rub is, there is not a precedent for ignoring subpoenas on the claim of executive privilege. There is no question that they should have to obey the subpoenas, and once on the stand the issue would be whether they have privilege to not answer. But, to just not show is illegal and for that ruling to take months is absurd.

[DevonRex]

17. Maybe they want the actual facts, thus the settlement?

[tekisui]

20. Do you think they will get the actual facts by negotiating with this bunch?

They need to be under oath where they are at risk of perjury.

[DevonRex]

27. Or, without a settlement they might just plead the 5th and we'll NEVER get the info.

[tekisui]

29. We'll see.

I would rather see them squirm to deny and forget and plead the 5th than have their words never see the light of day. I am tired of dealing with these criminals like they deserve respect.

They ignored subpoenas, which is a crime if you or I did it. Why give these traitors special treatment?

[AtomicKitten]

54. I think they are trying to handle this in a "civilized manner" which, of course,

means kowtowing to the Bushies' demands for testimony in private and not under oath emulating the way Junior rolled all through his presidency.

But what's the point? A "gentleman's agreement" won't get to the truth. That will require handcuffs and a trip to the Big House.

[Hippo_Tron]

59. Because dragging your political opposition off in handcuffs makes it hard to govern

They are fine with Miers/Rove/Bolton testifying but not with the images of them being arrested for contempt that will be played 24/7 on the MSM. They are trying to avoid that.

[dionysus]

69. why some cannot grasp this simple fact is amazing to me...

:thumbsup:

[tekisui]

73. Ok. That is the first response to address the political risk.

If the fear is of the M$M's portrayal and the repuke reaction, then they have already lost on the messaging.

The question is not what they are accused of, but the abuses already committed: ignoring subpoenas. That should have already been framed clearly for everyone to understand.

[EFerrari]

70. Obama and his people have to get on top of the economy first.

There's no other choice. And they need cooperation to do it.

[vaberella]

72. THANK YOU!! n/t

[tekisui]

74. I can see that. It is unfortunate that the criminals who will be protected

by the failing economy are the very ones who ushered it in. Very convenient for them.

[EFerrari]

79. I couldn't agree more. But we have to wait for a better moment, imho.

[DevonRex]

76. Precisely. Americans are desperate for solutions to their problems

right now. If I can't put a roof over my kids' heads, I'm gonna be pissed if all the sudden all the news is focused on Rove et al being led away in handcuffs. That would be the only visual necessary to give the republics in Congress an excuse not to work with us.

[tekisui]

77. I see that point,

but also know that repukes don't need a reason not to work with us. They will obstruct no matter what we do. I wish we could do the right thing. And, I wish we could do more than one thing at a time.

There will always be an excuse to not hold the criminals to account.

[DevonRex]

78. What makes the difference is that right now the republics don't have the people's support.

They look like obstructionists and are judged as such by most Americans. That could and would change in a heartbeat if Rove is cuffed and arrested, because the corporate MSM would make SURE that it's seen over nad over and over again and that is the ONLY thing they would talk about on their damned shows.

It would not matter one bit that Rove is in contempt. By the time the MSM is through, Obama and the democrats would look like they're only out for political payback. And it has nothing to do with whether we have won or lost in framing the debate. We should be able to admit here that we will NEVER be able to completely frame the debate, since corporate media has a huge stake themselves in framing the debate the way THEY want to, for THEIR bottom line.

I wish it weren't so. But those are just the facts.

[Zodiak]

90. In fairness...

We have peeled off quite a few Republicans from the "main herd" of dead-enders.

It's the Jindals versus the Crists....popcorn is $1.50. My bet is on the Crists because it is the only politically viable position a Republican will have in a crisis like this. The dead-enders are going down in a big way in the realm of public opinion.

For the record, I am NOT HAPPY about how the Bushies' crimes have been glossed over so far. It is a gross violation of the rule of law. However, we are not living in normal times at all, and I am willing to allow more time for events to develop. There is a limit to this posture on my part, though, because justice must be done for us to put ourselves on a sustainable path.

I think the American people would love to see Karl Rove hauled before Congress. They really are sick of these assholes, but the groundwork must be laid for exposing their crimes.

But we may need to keep the pukes fighting each other to get a few important things done for the American people first. Things are really screwed up.

....oh, and one more thing....I think the circumstances we find ourselves may have been contrived by directing policy and urging their "pioneers" to pull the plug at the right moment. Everything kept on the edge and pushed over right before they left office. This is exactly the political cover they needed, and the Bushies are expert disaster capitalists. After all, it is not like their policies didn't have predictable results. In our history, we have tried their way three times before (Robber Baron period, Gilded Age, Reaganomics, and now the "Ownership Society").

Wasn't there a story about a weird run on the banks that occurred and caught Paulson's hair on fire? All that secrecy....all that cooking of the books. They wouldn't even allow how much money we printed be known.

[EFerrari]

80. Ironically, I suspect that things will get worse for the people

even after Obama has the reins of the economy firmly in hand.

There may come a moment where the people are still angry and hurting although Obama is more firmly in charge. In a year or so.

That's when we have to go forward. But first, we need the ground to stop shaking under the havoc that BushCo has created.

[DevonRex]

84. I don't know why anybody would want to be president. It's gonna take

the most delicate balance of telling it how it really is so that people understand that there have to be HUGE changes, and somehow giving them some hope that things will get better. And all the while fighting against the dirty, dirty republics and the corporate MSM.

This just boggles the mind.

Oh, and I haven't hugged you lately so :hug:

[EFerrari]

102. Thank you, JenniferZ.

:hug:

[DevonRex]

103. You're quite welcome SFEP.

I enjoyed it too. :)

[struggle4progress]

82. The position of the present Executive appears to be that the former Executive and Congress should

resolve their differences in an out-of-court settlement

The Executive and Congress are different branches of government, it is not the Executive's responsibility to look after the interests of Congress: Congress should exercise its own prerogatives and forcefully look after its own interests

The current approach of the Executive also recognizes that the courts, in general, prefer not to mediate such disputes: that's why the Executive keeps requesting extensions and the court keeps granting the requests

The current approach further spares the present Executive the thorny problem of determining the implications of any stand it might otherwise take in the matter: since the case involves the Republicans' major political strategist, Rove, you can bet the Republicans have war-gamed possible Obama administration moves on this case and are ready to throw screaming fits the instant Obama takes a stand.

I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again, but I expect Rove in jail if this continues