What the hell's the problem with being hopeful?

[SidneyCarton]

For those of you who will be offended by my comments, let me apologize beforehand, this is a rant by a frustrated soul, if you choose to read further, know that you have been warned.





Is anyone else tired of the endless hope-bashing on this board? I realize that all we got under Bush, and indeed to some degree under Clinton were optimistic crocks of crap, but seriously, would someone point out to me the virtues of pessimistic cynicism, because I'm not seeing it. Sure, hope alone doesn't pay the bills, feed the family or put a roof over one's head, but have you ever tried to do those things without it? The rash of men committing suicide in this country after slaughtering their families is a symptom of hopelessness, of coming to terms with the utterly pessimistic view of the universe that everyone seems to be selling right now. We have to hope that things will turn around, or why the hell did we bother coming out in the last election at all? After all, if it's only going to get worse anyway, why didn't we vote for the other moron, as he at least could promise us a quick descent into oblivion? To some degree I get it, we're scared. We've been had someone pissing down our back and telling us it's raining for so long that we can't even begin to believe that anyone would do differently. But forgive me if I choose to hope for the best, even as I prepare for the worst, to do otherwise would involve little more preparation than sticking my head in the oven.

Ok, end of rant, feel free to flame away.

:rant:

[firedupdem]

1. No flame from me! I plan to remain hopeful.

I lost my sister to suicide in 2005 after she went through a divorce, loss of her job and some other stuff. Losing even just our Hope for the best is a dangerous road to travel.

[SidneyCarton]

2. I'm sorry about your loss.

Having a few friends and relations who have suffered from depression, I have begun to realize just how important the intangible quality of hope truly is. For many of us, it is what gets us out of bed in the morning, and gets us through the day. I realize that false hope is dangerous, but the lack of any hope at all seems almost worse.

:hug:

[Number23]

44. Firedup, I am so sorry to read about your sister.

It certainly explains why you are one of the most consistently hopeful and positive posters in GD-P, that I've seen anyway. :)

My prayers to you and your family. :hug:

[SunsetDreams]

3. I like your rant! K&R.

[damonm]

4. No offense - just applause.

“Don't ever become a pessimist, Ira; a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun--and neither can stop the march of events.”

Robert A. Heinlein

[T Wolf]

5. Perhaps if Pres. Obama was working toward progressive goals. it would be useful to hope

for success.

But when all we can realistically "hope" for is a slightly less-corporate dominated agenda than the pukes give us, the hope dries up pretty quickly.

It has nothing to do with the shit we have suffered the past eight years. It has to do with "hoping" that things would change for the better and getting the clear message that not-as-bad-as-Bush is all we can expect.

[SidneyCarton]

6. Fair enough, but I have to wonder then, why bother?

If you are convinced that things can only get worse for us here, why go on with this mess? Canada is close, New Zealand is prettier, surely if the ship of state is sinking, no one could blame you for bailing out.

[T Wolf]

14. I just do not have hope in THIS administration - that it will accomplish much in the way

of moving America back from the corporate/fascist abyss.

Somewhere, deep inside of me, there is still a tiny hope that something will happen to move America to the left. I just know that it is not President Obama and the congressional Dems.

[SidneyCarton]

16. As my own dissatisfaction has been entertained this morning,

I am feeling reciprocal.

What do you think our country ought to look like, act like, be like? What would this new "Left America" be like?

[T Wolf]

23. You want a list? Here is a partial one...

Universal health care - not insurance, but actual, single-payer medical care for all.

A progressive tax structure that blocks obscene accumulation of wealth by individuals.

Environmental protection that puts the health and welfare of the population before corporate profits.

An enlightened foreign policy that leaves other nations alone to conduct their own affairs. No arm sales, period!

FULL civil rights for all people in this country - and certainly not a two-tiered system with some rights only for "citizens."

Removal of the special treatment (non-taxation) for religious organizations.

Fully-funded quality education for all through university level, ala Europe.

Removal of corporation-as-person-with-rights bullshit - companies are not people.

Nationalization of any entity that is "too big to fail."

End of the socialize-the-risk, privatize-the-benefits orientation of our national policies.

I could come up with more, but you probably get the idea. I guess I am one of those commie, homo-loving, sons-of-a-gun that Mr. Penn referred to.

[SidneyCarton]

26. Most of this will have a chance of happening...

Right after our nation collapses from superpower status.

If this is your partial list, then you will never be happy with the way our nation goes, because we will have a hard time implementing much of what is on this list alone. That does not mean that none of what you suggest is necessary, indeed all of it would greatly benefit our lives. Nevertheless, short of a revolution and a dictatorship, the only way any of this gets through the government is through compromise, which will make the outcomes ultimately unsatisfactory for you.

I am sorry, I can only imagine the frustration you feel.

[Dawgs]

9. Wow!! Obama still has 98% of his first term left, and you've given up hope.

But, it sounds like you've never had it.

Sad.

[Uzybone]

13. that one never had hope, let alone support

one of those on this site who are constantly waiting for Obama to fail.

[SidneyCarton]

15. Post 4 nails the problem here.

The benefit of pessimism is that you are rarely proven wrong. The problem with pessimism is that it motivates you to do nothing.

[T Wolf]

17. Obama will not FAIL. He will succeed in keeping the US safely in the hands of the

corporations and the financial elite.

What he will "fail" at is restoring the ideals that the Democratic party used to stand for.

Do you not understand the difference?

[SunsetDreams]

18. and you know this because?

[Dawgs]

20. You know this after five weeks?

:rofl: :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[SidneyCarton]

22. We also used to stand for...

Slavery, eugenics and segregation. Oh, and if you think we were ever fervent anti-corporatists, re-read your history.

[TheWraith]

36. And cue the delusional hope-bashing.

If you're going to do nothing but live in your own little universe, then don't be surprised if people tell you that that's what you're doing.

[On the Road]

7. Hope Bashing, as You Refer to It

is sometimes an effort to appear skeptical and mature. Often it is from people who have never lived through a real recession and do not know that it always accompanied by a sense of hopelessness.

It is sometimes simply a mixture of ignorance and spleen.

------------------

I am hoping that Obama's team can see this economic crisis though. There are some good people dealing with a very difficult situation. Everyone remembers the Great Depression, but no one remembers all the other recessions and bank crises that didn't last. We are not doomed.

[SidneyCarton]

11. It is a matter of balance.

Some skepticism is healthy, it keeps me from buying a Sham-Wow, or hoping for money from e-mails from Nigeria. That said, we have an awful tendency to ossilate from one extreme to the other, either the world is wonderful and we are all Pollyannas in the best of all possible worlds, or life sucks, and the best thing the government could do is subsidize our Hemlock.

No, we're not doomed, not yet, not so long as we keep struggling. The only fish who are doomed are the ones resigned to the net.

[AtomicKitten]

8. "The basis of optimism is sheer terror." ~Oscar Wilde n/t

[damonm]

10. See #4.

[SidneyCarton]

12. ...

care to elaborate?

[AtomicKitten]

19. “We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.” ~Oscar Wilde :) n/t

[SidneyCarton]

21. Aaah, thanks, that makes good sense.

[mopinko]

24. "in the unlikely story that is america

there has never been anything false about hope."
now i know you all know who said that.
and look what hope has brought us so far.

shrug off the bashers, they are mostly miserable folk.

[renate]

25. K&RRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

One of my wisest teachers wrote a poem after his beloved wife died--she had had a long and debilitating illness--and he read it to our class. The whole thing had us in tears, but his attitude (and hers) towards life was summed up in a line I loved, wrote out, and framed:

It doesn't have to be perfect to be good.

(To me, this is a lovelier, more accepting, and less critical version of "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.")

There are often reasons to feel despair or fear. No reasonable person would deny that there are terrible problems with the world and, sometimes, in our own lives that need to be fixed. But being hopeful and focusing more on where we're heading than where we've been gives us the energy and strength to keep on improving things that need to be improved. In most situations (with the exception of a threat to our very survival, like a serious health issue, losing one's ability to buy food and shelter, sending a loved one to war, etc), both optimistic and pessimistic points of view are valid, so when we have a choice, it just plain feels better to pick a hopeful attitude.

[SidneyCarton]

28. Exactly. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. Depends on what you're hoping for.

Don't project your motives and goals onto any elected officials. Obama, specifically, has made clear that his disagreement over Iraq and Afghanistan are tactical. He's made clear that universal health coverage means the option to purchase insurance if you wish and if you can afford it. His preferred approach to the economic problem is incremental and nuanced. I think it falls short, but I'm not shocked, surprised, dismayed, concerned or betrayed.

He's doing it his way, whether I agree or not.

[SidneyCarton]

29. Sage advice.

I try not to project my goals onto my elected officials. I'm not President. (Few would be pleased if I were) This goes beyond Obama, though much of the current cynicism seems inextricably tied to his invocation of hope. The way some people talk, one would think that hope was a dirty word, that we would be inestimably happy if we just embraced the absolute meaninglessness and emptness of existence. That the only mature position from which to view the world is cynicism.

If it bothers me to hear this, it is because such are the exact same sentiments which I get from the right, as a justification for egotism and selfishness. We don't necessarily need to be better, (that's a whole different argument) but we ought to avoid falling into the same destructive thought patterns.

[T Wolf]

37. So, for example, we should be satisfied that children from poor families that cannot

"afford" health insurance should just go without health care (and die) because that is what Pres. Obama thinks of as "good enough" health care. Well, that is not good enough for me. I may (will) not see universal health care in my life, but I damn sure would like to.

Also, his view is that the Iraq and Afghan wars are OK, it's just the tactical "prosecution" of the wars that is wrong? That is fucked. The wars against those two nations were wrong, illegal, and no amount of tap-dancing around how it was done can negate that truth.

Finally, "Don't project your motives and goals onto any elected officials" - by this do you mean that I should just vote and then let the elected do whatever they want because my views are not valid, wanted (I know that), or valued? That sounds like the blind obedience that the pukes demanded of all of us to the wisdon of George, Dick, and the rest of those criminals.

[lumberjack_jeff]

41. No, it means that you should back candidates who share your views.

All too many DU'ers expect Obama to do things he not only didn't promise, but in fact distanced himself from during the campaign. "I know, deep down inside, he's not a dlc-er, but a true progressive. He's just saying what he needs to say to get elected."

I didn't back Obama during the primaries, nevertheless, he's what I have to work with, and infinitely better than his general election alternative.

My priorities are not universally his. I have to push my priorities via other avenues.

[1776Forever]

30. Hope like love lives in the heart - there is no stock market trading on it - Thank God!

Hope is a feeling when I wake up that I can make a better day for someone that will warm my heart for doing it. That is my hope everyday.

Blessings!

:fistbump:

[tekisui]

31. Hope was good during the campaign. But, as a word it is weak.

Something stronger and more proactive would be a more positive approach.

Hope implies that it is out of our hands. Hope implies faith and apathy. As if the best we can do is hope for a good outcome. I believe their is more we can do.

I think a stronger word like 'Action' or 'Do' or 'Progress' would be a better motivator and a more positive word.

[SidneyCarton]

33. As a man once said "faith without works, is dead"

Conversely, works, without faith are rarely as strong as they ought to be. (One may replace the word faith, with hope.) As I stated in the OP, hope alone does nothing, but matched with works hope gives us the vision to inspire us in our efforts.

[Gregorian]

32. Hope with an eye on reality.

I've got visionary genes. And I've spent most of my life in a state of rage and hopelessness. And in perspective I've had a fantastic time. But I was furious during the ride. And I'm still worried. When I see happy people I just equate it with stupidity.

I heard an economist talking the other day about why politicians aren't telling us the whole truth about the meltdown. And why Prime Minister Brown just passed a law to do secret bailouts. He said if there were two people and one of them was worried that a pterodactyl was going to eat him and it didn't, and another who wasn't worried that a pterodactyl was going to eat him and it did. That last person would have lived a better life. And so they're keeping us happy so we'll continue having confidence.

But here's what can be bad about hope. When the symptoms lag enough that we don't see them until it's too late, being unaware that there is a problem can be a disaster. This is happening with population and global warming.

But there is also another side to this whole thing that I don't know, and I don't understand. And after what I've said, and after what I have felt was a justified life of worry and frustration, I honestly believe that being hopeful is all we have.

How's that for contradictory logic?

My bottom line is that we should be aware of how our actions affect our surroundings and those around us. That's the answer to almost every problem on earth.

I had this hope conversation with my dad yesterday. He's super staunch liberal. And yet he was a minister in his early life. The bible mentions the horrors of living on this planet. And Jesus says that we should not have worries. To which I said, even in Auschwitz? It's not an easy thing to see. But I think your question is very important. Man, I could write another book here. Why I'm hopeless. And why I am sometimes hopeful. Perhaps there is a bigger scheme. It's a big universe. And yet suffering is real.

Eckardt Tolle has written some great books on this subject. I have failed miserably in practicing what he preaches. But hopelessness only adds to the pain. I'll never forget when the Dali Lama visited George Bush. Well, I guess I have to get back to work here. Maybe I've said nothing. I certainly can't follow the principals of my own words.

[SidneyCarton]

34. I agree with you.

:cheers:

Aren't contradictions fascinating?

[Gregorian]

35. Yes. Mystery.

I also like being wrong. :)

[treestar]

38. Nothing, in fact, we have to be more positive now

Some of the economy going down seems related to it. The worse we feel about the future, the worse things get. We have to start being proactive and get things moving again.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

39. I'm not one of the hope-bashers, but...

if one is hopeful at the expense of not paying any attention to reality, it is not very productive at all. That's basically Rumsfeld saying our sojourn into Iraq would be greeted by flowers and celebration.

[SidneyCarton]

40. Agreed, I advocate hope tempered by reality.

But hope is important here, as our reality is shaped by our perceptions.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

42. Agreed in full.

Hope should always be balanced. Too much is just as dangerous as having none.

[Blue Gardener]

43. No flaming here

Too many people here see no hope at all and are determined to be as miserable as possible. What a sad way to live.

[GeorgeGist]

45. False hope is as American as apple pie ...

except the reward is deprivation and disappointment.