TO OBAMA on student loan forgiveness for teachers

[yurbud]

read that http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/23/dear-president-obama-the_n_169074.html">Obama reads ten letters from the public a day, so I've sent a couple, like this:

President Obama,

Thank you for your emphasis on education in your recent state of the union and Saturday radio address.

There is one thing you could do that would be a tremendous encouragement to current educators and encourage others to become teachers: expand the student loan forgiveness program to all K-12 and public college instructors.

Those who currently get student loan forgiveness could get it at an increased pace or some additional incentive like a tax credit.

I teach community college, and because most schools hire mostly part time instructors at as little as a quarter the pay of full time faculty and don't us health benefits (I didn't get any from from any of my schools for the first eight years I taught), I was not able to make consistent payments on my student loans until just the last two or three years.

Consequently, my debt doubled from $50,000 to over $100,000, and my payments are greater than my rent.

The overuse and abuse of part time faculty at community colleges needs to be ended as well, but expanding the forgiveness of student loans would tell society that our work deserves at least one-tenth of one percent as much of the financial recognition that Wall Street gave themselves in bonuses with the bailout money taxpayers gave them.

[CBR]

1. I agree and will send a similiar letter...

although I will expand it to birth - college as my husband, with a BS in Early Childhood Ed., teaches pre-K at a public university.

[Fire1]

2. How about making it 'retroactive?'

:P

[yurbud]

6. I would not object to that!

[acmavm]

3. How about including EVERYBODY. Unless I missed something and

teachers are the only ones having a hard time paying back their loans.

[yurbud]

7. a case could be made for that too.

[nakanishi oshi]

11. Yeah. Doctors, for example

I'm sure many doctors needed student loans to graduate.

[yurbud]

13. if a doctor worked in an underserved area or under-staffed specialty

otherwise, don't they make more than enough to pay back their nut?

[Liquorice]

12. Really! Why only teachers? Student loans are financially crippling a lot of people. NT

[marshall]

27. Many students graduate today with 100K in student loan debt

I'd like to seem more emphasis on taking a year or two beyond the traditional four years to get a degree, and getting a part time job to offset the expenses. I'm not sure these students realize the impact that huge debt will have on their lives as they start a career and a family.

[AZBlue]

37. They don't have an idea of the impact because they are purposely mislead on that topic.

Schools and loan providers both mislead students on the effects of that debt.

[northernlights]

41. assuming you can get a p/t job in this economy

do you really think that's going to offset the costs? Have you looked at the costs lately?

Thank god for half.com. My textbooks easily would come to $1,000/semester going full time and bought new, $800 bought used through the school bookstore.

Say you're going to school half-time. At my state university that means about $9,000 for tuition, books and fees.

What do you live on in the meantime?

So working parttime you're supposed to earn enough money to live on AND enough money to pay that tuition?

Oh, and by the way, my microbiology lab partner was living at home and working part time. She also was barely maintaining the required C+ to stay in the program and was a total deadbeat on our joint project. So much so that I considered bagging the project, letting us both take zeroes and focussing on the final instead.

I've looked at it inside and out. Unless you have somebody supporting you, there is no way to do it on your own reasonably.

I was damn close to doing it on my own dime plus $20K in loans. This included selling my home at a loss and "downsizing" the location. It made sense given the income potential at the back end (rule of thumb is don't borrow more than *half* the salary you can reasonably expect to make in your field) and the fact that I don't expect to stay in this area.

Except the effing "advisor" (read sales liar) flat out lied on several points very early on. Her blatant effing lies have added a full year of school for me, which I absolutely cannot do. It means doubling the borrowing, since I'm within about 3 months of being flat broke.

[namahage]

14. Yeah. What about lawyers? They take out tons of loans, too.

I have a feeling it's not just about ability to pay back loans--it's to encourage more people to consider education as a viable career path. Increasing the applicant pool would lead, in theory, to better education.

[acmavm]

20. We're all Americans and every profession is of value, right

down to the lowliest (if there is such a thing). Teacher's tuition isn't any more expensive than anyone elses. Why should they get out of paying back student loans and no one else.

Hell, let doctors off too if your have a hierarchy of importance in regard to repayment. They save lives. They make good money but hell, we're making value judgements here about who should get a free education and who shouldn't.

[AZBlue]

15. I agree.

[avaistheone1]

42. How about people who are community organizers?

Those people make less and less job security than teachers do.

[thejokerwasme]

4. I hope that even those teachers who are employed parttime

can partake in this. Sometimes the district splits a position in two.

[yurbud]

8. that's what they do three-fourths of the time at community colleges.

[a la izquierda]

5. I will eventually teach at a public university...

I'd be happy if my debt was reduced by half.

[yurbud]

9. the expansion of non-tenure track and part time faculty amounts to economic warfare

It started in California about the same time Reagan started to do away with free higher ed. He said, ''Why should I pay for kids to go to school to learn to disagree with what I believe?'' He also signed a bill creating a permanent underclass of part time community college faculty who were classified as ''temporary'' (even though we worked at the same schools for decades) so they could pay us far less per class than our full time colleagues.

The notorious Powell Memo on how the right could dominate the public debate spent most of its time on how to neutralize academia.

The most disquieting voices joining the chorus of criticism come from perfectly respectable elements of society: from the college campus, the pulpit, the media, the intellectual and literary journals, the arts and sciences, and from politicians. In most of these groups the movement against the system is participated in only by minorities. Yet, these often are the most articulate, the most vocal, the most prolific in their writing and speaking.

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html|FULL TEXT>

Karl Rove also said, ''As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing.''

And remember what Grover Norquist said about shrinking government until it was so weak they could drown it in the bathtub? He revealed a key method of Republican policy-making:

What they love, they deregulate and throw money at.

What they hate, they regulate to death and starve of funds.

So they love Wall Street and hate education.

[yurbud]

10. vote up on social bookmarking sites to get wider audience LINKS:

http://digg.com/political_opinion/TO_OBAMA_expand_student_loan_forgiveness_to_ALL_teachers

http://buzzflash.net/story.php?id=1004690

http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/81320/to_obama_expand_student_loan_forgiveness_to_all/

http://www.jabberwonk.com/flinker.cfm?cliid=lcv0p

[AZBlue]

16. If not forgiveness, at least retroactive rules outlawing what would be otherwise criminal

fees and charges, like the kind that doubled your total due. I'm in the same situation and it's maddening!

[yurbud]

18. it is also maddening that like mortgages, student loans can be sold

mine went through a couple of hands before it end up at Chase, which is not exactly a company I want the interest on my loan supporting.

[AZBlue]

19. I've actually considered using the same tactic some homeowners are using to help them:

"Produce the note."

I went through a debacle with the student loan agency themselves where they couldn't even give me the full list of my loans (and now I'm paying for their mistakes).

[yurbud]

22. good idea though they could ravage your credit rating in the meantime

[AZBlue]

35. Been there, done that.

:(

[yurbud]

23. I wonder if any lawyers have looked into how that might work...

[Rosa Luxemburg]

17. excellent post.

[tblue37]

21. Other First World countries subsidize higher education for

their bright students, in order to have a highly educated and skilled work force. We cripple ours with tens, even hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt before they even start their professional lives or their families.

[yurbud]

24. it can put a major crimp in the family thing. It took until my mid-40s to find a woman

who didn't care about my debt or how little I made, and a colleague lost his wife over money matters.

[yurbud]

25. where is a bigger version of the obama MLK high five?

that's a great one.

[tblue37]

33. It's not mine. A DUer named bob_weaver made it,

Here is the link to the thread where he first posted it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8119200

But the image is no longer available there or at Photobucket, where he originally had it. Perhaps if you PM him he will provide the larger version for you.

I believe it was ichingcarpenter who reduced the size so we could add it to our sig line.

[ejpoeta]

28. well, when you are in debt, then you will play by the rules

and not make waves. indebtedness has its rewards, i guess. instead of helping people, as many young people start out to do, you have to pay bills. so you'll climb on the train and then chances are you'll forget all about that idealogical desire to help others and do good things.

[dascientist]

32. counter advocate, don't the smartest people get full ride scholarships?

......

[tblue37]

34. No, those go to football and basketball players, even if they have the

equivalent of a sixth grade education because their entire time in school has been spent focusing on their sport and being protected from the rigors of a real education, for fear it might distract them or cause them to lose their eligibility.

Other countries think it is insane that college scholarships in our country are based not on academics but on athletic ability.

My daughter, who graduated from medical school last May and was a Fulbright Fellow (with a higher degree in social policy from University College in Dublin from her Fulbright Fellowship year), actually got a full tuition scholarship for her undergrad education. (Those are very rare for any nonathlete, even undergrads), She still worked 45-50 hours a week to pay for books and living expenses during all but her freshman year, when living expenses were covered by a Presidential scholarship (which was only available during that first year).

But despite her recognized brilliance, she had to finance medical school entirely with loans, just as other doctors do. A few get partial financial assistance by promising to work in rural communities, but for the most part they are completely on the hook for the full price of their professional education. She is about a quarter million dollars in debt from it. Her original goal was to work with medically underserved populations—rural and inner city communities and Third World countries. She also wants to be the kind of doctor who goes into such underserved areas, especially in developing countries, and sets up their medical infrastructure. (That’s why she used the Fulbright to get that degree in social policy.)

But because she will have to pay off that quarter million, she now realizes that once she finishes her residency, she can’t immediately start in on her goal of ministering to those who would otherwise have no medical care. Instead, she needs to concentrate for at least ten years on making money. By the time that loan is paid down, she will probably be a mother, since she and her husband want to start a family within the next two or three years.

What’s going to happen, of course, is that she will have to pay her debt and pay huge malpractice insurance fees, and starting a family isn’t cheap. My guess is that she will soon realize that there is no way to follow that idealistic dream of helping those in need. As another poster says, keeping people in debt is a way of making sure they don’t rock the boat.

The best she can hope for is to take a few weeks each year to go down to Guatemala or some other such place and work in a clinic.

But, hey, —at least our football and basketball players get a chance to show the pros what they can do by playing in the farm league called college sports. Then, as soon as their college scholarships have served their purpose of showcasing their talent, they can leave school early to become multimillion-dollar professional players. Isn't that what college is supposed to be about--grooming athletes for the pros?

[harry_pothead]

26. I'm going into the SFSU credential program next fall, and all I can say is

K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R K&R

[LWolf]

29. I paid off my student loans 4 years ago.

I, however, incurred a different kind of penalty.

When I got my clear credential in CA, I was 3 classes away from a masters.

I didn't finish it, because I was:

1. Worried about student loan debt
2. Worried about being able to finish classes while teaching, which has always eaten up 10 hours a day, plus weekends in the beginning.

So, when I finished paying off my student loans, I looked into finishing that masters. I need to do so; I'm in another state, and I have a limited amount of time to complete one on the license they granted me.

Of course, no one will take my previous units, because it's been more than 5 years. I have to start a program from SCRATCH. Considering that I took a 35% paycut when I moved to this state, I don't have the resources to pay for those classes, or to pay the student loans I would accrue.

Do I get tax credits for paying off all my student loans already? Or do I get forgiveness for the debt I will have to incur to start a masters all over again?

[AZBlue]

36. No one will take credits more than 5 years old??

Wow.

Could you possibly take the course online at the original school? I'm sure you've looked into that already, but just in case I wanted to offer it up.

That's heartbreaking - I'm sorry!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. Extend and expand the loan forgiveness programs to college professors

or those working in the public sector or government.

[libnnc]

31. I am teaching in a community college right now

I can't express how much this would help me

[yurbud]

38. it really amounts to economic warfare on educators: we can't pay back the loans on degrees REQUIRED

to do our jobs.

[Agent William]

39. What about high school teachers?

Are they in the same boat as far as finances go. I'll be heading into history in WA state, and I'll probably leave with around 20K in debt.. I know science and math teachers are taken care of, but that is most certainly not the case for me.

What has anyone heard? Can loans I took out from the university be handed over to private companies?

And of course football players get to college for free. WTF

[northernlights]

40. how about health care providers?

They start with loans the size of mortgages.

They work ungodly hours. On their feet for 12 hour shifts. While everybody else stays home during blizzards or whatever ma nature throws our way, they are required to work extended shifts. Even forced to neglect their own families and sleep at the hospital...or lose their jobs.

Front line, first responders during emergencies.

Every day exposed to virulent, antibiotic-resistant pathogens.

The are the essence of community service, yet lifelong indentured servants to the big banks.

[Life Long Dem]

43. So many different groups in discussion.

I could add..

There are also one's who had financial aid problems when the crisis hit. One's finishing up, and they stopped handing out student loans, so they now have a bill and no degree.

This is similar to someone who lost their house, but instead of foreclosers, they lost their degree.

And please don't try to file for a bankruptcy because that ain't gonna happen.

I could add more but.. I'm sure there are similar circumstances, but you get my point - maybe.

[1corona4u]

44. Yeah, fuck it.

Let's just give everyone a pass. I can't stand this constant whinning about who deserves what....people made their career decisions, now deal with it, without asking for a handout. Like the financial burden of school was a big fucking surprise. :puke:

[loan slave]

45. Retroactively allow people to include student loans in bankruptcy

Is it at all possible that we stop thinking of an education as a hand out? Can we begin to get to a point in this society when conservatives and liberals alike view education as a noble goal that should be experienced by as many people as possible and not just for the few?

I have a unique take. I first graduated in 1986. I graduated with relatively little in student loans. Even though the economy in upstate NY was depressed and still is in bad shape, I was able to easily make payments on those loans. I had job that were not worth a darn and that I certainly did not need a college degree to perform, but the loans were manageable.

I WISH the people that say...I PAID MINE…I SACRIFICED…Would understand that today the landscape is much much different. First, the cost of education is much higher. Second, grant money, especially for graduate students has been pared back severely. So, while someone pursuing a masters in 1986 would have taken out some student loans, it would not have been the entire amount on an ever increasing tuition.

Why did this happen? Simple, once they made student loans non-dischargeable in bankruptcy the lenders and the schools become, in essence partners. Schools could charge whatever they wanted. They know that a student has been brainwashed by society that you must get a degree, so they know that a small percentage of students will drop out and there are always students willing to take their place (especially at better schools). The lenders, in the meantime, know they can give money to anyone and their dog because the federal government has their back by making it impossible to discharge the loans in bankruptcy. Thus, an unholy alliance began and continues.

Students now graduate with an unreal amount of debt to go to a decent school an obtain an advanced degree. Sure, a student today could be satisfied with just a BS. I can hear people now saying a graduate degree, even a BS is a privilege, not a right. Well, again…society has changed.

Perhaps in an age when we had manufacturing jobs and one could make 50 bucks an hour with a high school degree putting bolt in on an assembly line one could argue that society should pay for a high school degree and no more because after that was gravy. However, in today’s world a BS is what a high school degree use to be in terms of employment prospects. If one want s to separate from the pack, one needs a graduate degree.

I could go on, there are so many nuances that people who say, I PAID MINE…There is NO FREE ride fail to take into consideration. Like the fact that foreign students get free rides while American citizens get loans, or the fact that many times professors will not allow students to graduate simply because the professor wants to keep them as research tools. A graduate student can easily take out an extra 50-60 k in loans simply because their committee plays games.

In short, we need to make education a risk free proposition again. We need to allow student loans to be part of bankruptcy. We need to give people the possibility to start a fresh new life if life throws them a curve ball.

Think about this…a person puts 50k on a credit card to start a business. In 5 years the business goes under and doesn’t work out. The person files bankruptcy…the person starts life anew and rebuilds. A student takes out 50k in student loans. In 5 years the economy is bad and they can’t find a job worthy of even an elementary education. The person files bankruptcy to at least escape credit card debt….YET 50K IN STUDENT LOANS REMAINS! IS THAT RIGHT?

No, I am not talking about me…I have a mere 170k in student loans. About 20k of it is due to late fees and penalties. About 50k is due to professors playing games…and the rest is because my school refused to give me a fellowship, but gave plenty of Chinese, Pakistanis and Indians got free graduate degrees.

Ah…welcome to America.