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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:18 PM
Original message
WSJ (Op-Ed...1/8) Discussing Clark Tax Plan...
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 12:36 PM by cthrumatrix
REVIEW & OUTLOOK


Reverse Tax Reform

We've been waiting a long time for another Democrat to grab the mantle of tax reform the way Bill Bradley and Dick Gephardt did back in the 1980s, so we studied Wesley Clark's proposal on Monday with interest. The kindest thing we can say about it is that we sure hope the retired general knows more about war than he does about taxes.


snip

The major difference today is that Mr. Clark is proposing to raise marginal income-tax rates even higher than Mr. Clinton did. He'd not only repeal the Bush tax cuts, thus restoring the top Clinton marginal rate of 39.6%, but he'd pile on another five-point rate surcharge on incomes of more than $1 million.

more

While we're on the subject of unfair taxation, we should also mention that Mr. Clark's tax "cut" isn't universal even for taxpayers who make less than $100,000. He'd exclude millions of single folks and married couples without children. This is what we meant earlier when we said Mr. Clark wants to shrink the tax base. His unified tax credit (to replace the several that now exist) would take even more people entirely off the income tax rolls. But someone has to make up the revenue lost from this shrinking taxpayer base, so pity the poor saps not on Mr. Clark's politically favored list. That means most of you reading this editorial.

All of this is to say that we are still waiting for some brave Democrat to propose a genuine tax reform. Mr. Clark can paint the facade of his proposal however he likes, but it still amounts to a monumental tax increase. Memo to White House political strategist Karl Rove: You must be living right.


http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB107343965831729600,00.html?mod=todays%5Fus%5Fopinion%5Fhs

WSJ....you have to take the above criticism with a "grain of salt"..but it's good to know what the competitor spins your plan

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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. a little more.....
Mr. Clark is proposing what is best described as reverse tax reform. As typically understood, tax reform involves trading lower tax rates for a broader tax base -- that is, lower rates on all income while reducing the scope and number of tax exemptions and credits. This was the logic of the last tax reform to make it through Congress, the one in 1986 that was midwifed by Mr. Bradley and Ronald Reagan. Mr. Clark is proposing more or less the opposite: higher rates on an even smaller tax base.

We are probably giving the general's use of the phrase "tax reform" more credit than it deserves. He is using it as a political shield to disguise that what he is really proposing is a huge tax increase. As a vote getter, "reform" does tend to beat "tax hike." This is the same rhetorical gambit that Democratic Governor Mark Warner is attempting in order to get a tax increase through Virginia's legislature, and the political strategy was laid out on these pages last year by former Bill Clinton adviser and now Illinois Congressman Rahm Emanuel.

The Emanuel conception is no coincidence, because Mr. Clark's "reform" is essentially an updated version of the tax jujitsu that Candidate Clinton offered back in 1992. Promise to raise taxes only on the upper middle class and wealthy, while offering to cut taxes on a slew of "middle-class families." Once Mr. Clinton took office, you may painfully recall, the middle-class tax cut vanished and everyone got socked with some kind of tax hike.

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB107343965831729600,00.html?mod=todays%5Fus%5Fopinion%5Fhs
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I don't remember my taxes going up under Clinton . . .
I remember getting a huge chunk back for the "Hope educational scholarship" that basically pays for your child's first two years of college tuition as well as 20 percent of tuition for continuing education. That was a helluva savings for me and my family (I also take continuing ed courses.)

I also remember the first balanced budget and historic surpluses. I wonder if the WSJ praised Clinton's finacial restraint. I'm guessing no.
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mistertrickster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
2. He's going to make rich folks pay more for benefiting more waaahhh!
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 12:23 PM by mistertrickster
Whine! Moan!

Never mind that the WSJ LOVES sales taxes and social security taxes because they're so regressive.

Maybe General Clark will be our commander in chief in the real war that needs to be fought in the country--the CLASS war to stop the rich from preying on the poor.
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mouse7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
3. WSJ hates it. It must be pretty good then. n/t
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OrAnarch Donating Member (433 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
4. we sure hope he knows more about war than he does about taxes.
Haha...right wing slant from that mag but funny none the less.
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. cthrumatrix
quick note - you may want to add some commentary to your first post. The op-ed of the WSJ is notorioulsy rightwing (far more to the right than the rest of the paper). Thus - per du rules for the gendisc forums - if linking rw material - posters must include commentary/context. You have time to edit your post.
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. maybe when I get to the point
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 12:31 PM by Vote_Clark_In_WI
that I can actually afford a subscription to WSJ, I'll be upset about the rich having to bite on a 5% hike. In the meantime, I'll just be glad that Clark is putting the emphasis where it belongs, on low-income families - helping to get more kids out of poverty.

And if people read the ENTIRE plan, not just the latest part that was put forth the other day, they'll see that if you make under $200,000/year, you'll be benefitting under Clark's plan, kids or no kids.

edited to add: my kids are grown and moved out, so I don't subscribe to the "Waaaah, where's MY money" camp. I see that he wants to help the country as a whole, not just a narrow sector.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. I Truely Consider This An Endorsement
From a Right Wing News source.

The New Republic ( a ne0-Liberal news source) gives the general an "A" for his tax-cut plan. Their ratings haven't made me want to puke as much as many of their analysis goes.



snip
How refreshing, then, it was to hear about General Wesley Clark's tax-reform plan yesterday. By reform, Clark doesn't simply mean fiddling with the tax rates like most other candidates. He means changing the way Americans actually deal with the IRS. (Well, some of them, anyway.)

The centerpiece of his plan is a proposal to consolidate a bunch of existing tax credits for children, make them bigger so that some families owe no taxes at all, and then--this is the really interesting part--completely exempt those families from filing tax returns at all. To qualify for the new zero-tax liability, all a family must do is fill out a three-line form--marital status, number of children, and total income--showing they meet the sliding scale of eligibility. (The cutoff for a two-parent family with two children would be $50,000 in family income; for that family, says the Clark campaign, the new tax break would be worth about $1,500.)

Keep in mind, just three or four million families will satisfy these guidelines. The rest, alas, will still have to file returns. But according to Clark's campaign, as long as they make less than $100,000, their tax bills will actually go down--to even less than they were after the Bush tax cuts.

snip

Of all the tax plans out there right now, this would certainly seem to be the most cleverly conceived. Other candidates have offered tax breaks for the poor and middle class, but only Clark lets people escape the painful process of tax-filing in the first place--something voters are bound to like, even if only a relatively small number of them can actually take advantage of it. And while this plan would raise taxes on a handful of wealthy Americans--by a whopping 10 points--Clark is cannily taking on that issue directly, daring Karl Rove to fight him on it:


snip

There's a sound policy rationale for this approach, given society's interest in subsidizing the expenses associated with child-rearing. On the other hand, it means fewer people benefit than in, say, Joe Lieberman's tax plan, which raises taxes on the very wealthy to finance benefits for everybody else--as in 98 percent of all taxpayers. Limiting the tax cut as Clark does could have some political implications since in 2000 Bush argued against Gore's own tax plan by mocking the way Democrats "pick and choose" who gets tax relief.

One might also ask whether, after the Bush tax cuts, anybody really needs more tax cuts. Certainly the primary beneficiaries of Clark's cut--the poor and middle class--are more deserving of tax breaks than the wealthy. And given the constant struggle to pay for things like childcare, it's not like the money will be wasted. On the other hand, once you take back the gifts to the Jaguar crowd, what's the best way to use that money? Financing education? Expanding health insurance? Paying down debt to fortify Social Security? To varying degrees, that's what the other candidates have done. And there's a sound rationale for almost any approach.

snip

Of course, when you step back and think about it, this whole debate has a certain pie-in-the-sky quality to it. If a Democrat wins the White House, he'll be dealing with a Republican Congress not exactly eager to undo the Bush tax cuts. The real usefulness of proposals like these, then, is as a test of priorities. And Clark has certainly passed this one.

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Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Pity the poor saps not on Mr Clark's politically favored list.
That means most of you reading this editorial"....What a smug, elitist piece of garbage. Of course THEY have something to fear-having to pay a fair share of the tax burden again! Oh that evil Mr Clark and his vicious 5% on millionaires! Damn him for putting the burden back on the wealthy when they've barely had time to refit their yachts after the Bush tax treasury give-away. Damn that Wesley Clark and his radical taxation!

Smithers! Release the hounds!"
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hurry! Put the cat back in the bag!
Oh no, Clark is going to take the tax cut carrot away! Watch Republicans scramble! The kind of tax plan Wes is proposing is EXACTLY what we had for generations. It's damn time somebody come out strongly for working people and tell them the way taxation used to be done. There's a WHOLE lot more of us than them.

And for all the single people and childless people, this will HELP you because there will be NO MORE Republicans when the tax cut carrot is gone. Corporations and the wealthy will once again pay the bulk of the taxes like they always had to in the past. It's damn time and I hope people can see through this bogus right wing bullshit and support this plan no matter who the candidate is.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. I would hope that the increase on million-plus earners gets watered down
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 12:42 PM by Bombtrack
in congress. I think that the electorate would vote for his tax-plan, but an additional 5 percent just seems kind of drastic. MOST people earning that kind of money are doing so fairly and honestly.

an additional 3 or 4 percent would be ok I think. And it would create fewer republican contributing millionaires(who become repulicans in reaction to his tax hike on them)

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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. 5% is only added after the first mill.
Meaning if you make 2 mill it's the second mill that gets
taxed an extra 5% -- I think they will still be able to afford
milk and eggs.
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Bombtrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. ok, that's better, any idea howmany citizens that is?
Just curious.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Less than one tenth of one percent.
(And I wouldn't be surprised if that figure has been declining since the Clinton years.)

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Bread and Circus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. I don't know about you all, but I am damn happy to make the code
redistribute more from the ultrarich back to children,
working families.

I happen to like children.

Sorry we can't have more cash give aways for the rich
even though WSJ would like it.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. It is a tax increase
for the deep pockets at WSJ. They're a joke
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
16. John Fund and the boys don't like the surcharge on mil a year folks
imagine that.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
17. Clark squanders chance for WSJ endorsement.
Big friggin deal.

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