|
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend Bookmark this thread |
This topic is archived. |
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:45 PM Original message |
So let me get this straight here. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:47 PM Response to Original message |
1. I can't find the link to that Scottish lady singing that song |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Patsy Stone (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:57 PM Response to Reply #1 |
11. ... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:47 AM Response to Reply #1 |
69. !! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
debunkthelies (290 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #1 |
102. Go To |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
classof56 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:58 PM Response to Reply #102 |
110. Just listened to her recording of "Cry Me a River". Wowser! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
geek tragedy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:48 PM Response to Original message |
2. Summary: |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Nicholas D Wolfwood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:27 PM Response to Reply #2 |
90. You're on a roll this week. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
MADem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:48 PM Response to Original message |
3. Yep. Boggles the mind. No matter what he does, he's going to catch shit for it. NT |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Richd506 (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:33 PM Response to Reply #3 |
94. It seems like there's an anti Obama cult as well as a pro Obama cult |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
MADem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:56 PM Response to Reply #94 |
100. The former are a bit more obnoxious than the latter, though. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
mmonk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:49 PM Response to Original message |
4. So if someone commits a crime in your neighborhood, if the police |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:52 PM Response to Reply #4 |
7. You are missing a critical piece. It would be something the police told them was legal and then |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:57 PM Response to Reply #7 |
12. That is absolutely correct. I cannot imagine anyone approving of a situation in which |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Pirate Smile (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:04 AM Response to Reply #12 |
16. That doesn't even deal with the practical realities that the police commissioner would need people |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:48 AM Response to Reply #12 |
30. The problem for me is that I don't care about pro-transperency as much as |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:52 AM Response to Reply #30 |
32. Indeed torture is wrong, and nobody has ever doubted or denied that, at any level. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:11 AM Response to Reply #32 |
36. You say, further down, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:26 AM Response to Reply #36 |
41. Who said we couldn't go after Bush and Cheney? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Mojorabbit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:53 AM Response to Reply #36 |
52. Every child in school |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:55 PM Response to Reply #52 |
98. Plus for some of these people, they could always change jobs. After all, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
ArcticFox (654 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:38 PM Response to Reply #98 |
107. Seconded |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:52 PM Response to Reply #107 |
109. Wow! That is an excellent point. You say: |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 09:53 PM Response to Reply #12 |
134. Except you are ignorning the fact that torture has always been illegal --- |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
MadBadger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:13 PM Response to Reply #134 |
139. True, but what constitutes torture was different in the Bush administration |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:38 PM Response to Reply #139 |
154. No . . they attempted to corrupt the Geneva Accords, the Constitution and Military laws .. . |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:48 PM Response to Reply #12 |
155. So it's okay to torture children? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 12:41 AM Response to Reply #12 |
158. So you're saying these are things you'd do . . . ? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
silverojo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:22 AM Response to Reply #7 |
21. Who cares if they were directed to do it? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:29 AM Response to Reply #21 |
23. I might well say "no sane person would join the CIA." That's meaningless. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Nicholas D Wolfwood (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:32 PM Response to Reply #21 |
93. Forget that you would lose your job. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kas125 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:07 AM Response to Reply #7 |
45. That critical piece being slamming people's heads against |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:45 AM Response to Reply #45 |
66. The Law doesn't do "right and wrong" or "personal judgments" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 09:57 PM Response to Reply #45 |
136. Exactly . . . and it's exactly what the military wants . . . robots surrendering conscience...!!! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
tblue37 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 09:58 PM Response to Reply #45 |
137. kas125, you wrote: |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:43 AM Response to Reply #7 |
64. Almost, but not quite |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
moodforaday (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:47 AM Response to Reply #7 |
81. Still not a defense |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:53 PM Response to Reply #4 |
8. Except we're not talking about the people who are at fault here. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kas125 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:12 AM Response to Reply #8 |
47. Do you really expect people to believe that they didn't KNOW |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:47 AM Response to Reply #47 |
68. The laws of the civilized people of the United States |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
high density (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:57 AM Response to Reply #47 |
74. You need to read the memos |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-19-09 07:59 PM Response to Reply #74 |
180. The law is not those memos |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
katty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 04:29 PM Response to Reply #47 |
112. exactly, unless one is so,so far gone-a person does know |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
HughMoran (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:54 PM Response to Reply #4 |
9. In the fantasy world of silly hypothetical arguments, yes |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
mkultra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:58 PM Response to Reply #4 |
128. its called ex post facto you fucking moron |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
kid a (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:50 PM Response to Original message |
5. you got it! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
rockymountaindem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:51 PM Response to Original message |
6. I watched an amazing Frontline video about the Office of Legal Council |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Shanti Mama (625 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:40 AM Response to Reply #6 |
63. Exactly. Give him time. He's aiming high. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:04 PM Response to Reply #6 |
138. Certainly everyone at the CIA wasn't born yesterday and knows TORTURE is illegal . . . |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
empyreanisles (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:55 PM Response to Original message |
10. K&R, my friend |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Clio the Leo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:58 PM Response to Original message |
13. Yay! more kicks for the folks who get it!!!! NT |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
katandmoon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-16-09 11:59 PM Response to Original message |
14. There is no way these CIA torturers didn't KNOW it was torture. They did it ANYWAY. NO legal |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:04 AM Response to Reply #14 |
17. They knew it was waterboarding. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
rhett o rick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #17 |
88. I disagree completely. These torturers knew what amounts to torture without some |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:14 PM Response to Reply #88 |
140. In fact, didn't Judge Jay Bybee confirm that it could produce "imminent death" ... but go ahead, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:01 AM Response to Original message |
15. excellent, excellent piece. k&fuckin'r |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Kurt_and_Hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:07 AM Response to Original message |
18. Speaking for myself, I am pleased by the document release |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:45 AM Response to Reply #18 |
42. "mbracing the Nuremberg defense on its face as an ethical construct" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
grantcart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:10 AM Response to Original message |
19. Well they are angry about that and the fact that with in the first 100 days nobody is in jail yet. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Muttocracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:21 AM Response to Original message |
20. Ron Reagan had an interesting theory on the radio this afternoon |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:25 AM Response to Reply #20 |
22. Even setting aside testimony against higher-ranking officials, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Muttocracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:30 AM Response to Reply #22 |
24. I don't know - I take this as going far beyond a "business practice" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:39 AM Response to Reply #24 |
26. Torture isn't a black-and-white thing. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Muttocracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:48 AM Response to Reply #26 |
29. I imagine in modern combat (Iraq, Afghanistan) the military isn't black and white either |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Kurt_and_Hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:01 AM Response to Reply #26 |
34. I don't know why bright lights is obviously not torture |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:24 AM Response to Reply #34 |
39. *shrug* Then replace "bright lights" with "a slap to the face" in my previous paragraph. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
onenote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:22 AM Response to Reply #34 |
57. You just proved the OP's point. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:16 PM Response to Reply #20 |
141. Right... I was listening . .. wasn't he suggesting that IMMUNITY could succeed in bringing out . . |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
tkmorris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:30 AM Response to Original message |
25. I have a bit more respect for the CIA than that |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Muttocracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:49 AM Response to Reply #25 |
31. well said |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:18 PM Response to Reply #25 |
142. Precisely . . . who would think anyone in CIA was that unknowing, that naive . . . ???? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:43 AM Response to Original message |
27. No, not quite. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:46 AM Response to Reply #27 |
28. That's meaningless fluff. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Political Heretic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 12:55 AM Response to Reply #28 |
33. Well I hope so. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
whatchamacallit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-20-09 09:48 AM Response to Reply #28 |
183. What? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
amborin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:10 AM Response to Original message |
35. why don't folks do a little legal research on torture indictments and trials? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Muttocracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:25 AM Response to Reply #35 |
40. is there a difference within vs among countries? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dorkulon (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:28 PM Response to Reply #35 |
91. Nothing is enough to compensate, so do nothing? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:14 AM Response to Original message |
37. Occam... BRILLIANT summary... you hit the nail right on the f-ing head |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cliffordu (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:14 AM Response to Original message |
38. And as far as the planners of the torture, he lets a little more evidence out |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:59 AM Response to Original message |
43. Passion seems to win out over logic here every time lately |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Jersey Noir (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:07 AM Response to Original message |
44. I for one welcome the change! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:19 AM Response to Reply #44 |
49. Welcome to DU! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Jersey Noir (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 08:59 AM Response to Reply #49 |
61. Thanks for the welcome |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:08 AM Response to Original message |
46. Are you f#cking kidding me? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:17 AM Response to Reply #46 |
48. I am starting to think you have lost your marbles |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:20 AM Response to Reply #48 |
50. Torture is illegal. That isn't my high or low horse. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:36 AM Response to Reply #50 |
51. sorry its not that clear cut |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Spazito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:07 AM Response to Reply #51 |
62. It has been rather fascinating to read some of the posts... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #51 |
96. You do know, right, that those memos were produced four months |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
mix (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:43 PM Response to Reply #51 |
122. KUBARK |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:50 AM Response to Reply #50 |
72. SO IS ENTRAPMENT! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:08 AM Response to Reply #72 |
76. Thank you. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:53 PM Response to Reply #72 |
97. The means do matter. What neither you nor I considered yesterday |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 08:38 PM Response to Reply #97 |
131. What I've mentioned repeatedly |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 02:12 PM Response to Reply #131 |
165. How does one torture in good faith? n/t |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 09:23 PM Response to Reply #165 |
171. Once more with feeling |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:48 AM Response to Reply #46 |
54. you're the one that needs a therapist |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Hell Hath No Fury (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:50 AM Response to Reply #46 |
71. I feel like I have walked through the looking glass here -- |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
noiretextatique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:18 PM Response to Reply #71 |
86. it's predictable, like the freepers who supported bush, inc |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #86 |
87. Absolute horseshit. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 09:26 PM Response to Reply #87 |
172. You silly liberal - we are talking about criminals here - don't go on about defenses |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:35 PM Response to Reply #71 |
106. Creepy, isn't it? Obama did well to release those memos. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
biopowertoday (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:20 PM Response to Reply #106 |
118. Obama cut them off at the pass by providing lawyers for their |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:06 PM Response to Reply #118 |
125. That will blow up on his administration. This isn't going away. n/t |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
biopowertoday (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 02:04 PM Response to Reply #125 |
164. I do not think this issue is going away either as much |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
mix (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:40 PM Response to Reply #71 |
120. yes it is, astonishing... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 09:37 PM Response to Reply #71 |
175. No all because the law matters |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:20 PM Response to Reply #46 |
143. Who? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:39 AM Response to Original message |
53. You're correct. Most people don't understand the effect of a "legal opinion" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
mix (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:52 PM Response to Reply #53 |
124. Do you understand that legal justification was given |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:21 PM Response to Reply #124 |
144. Great point . . . and also very like the wiretapping having begun 7 months before 9/11--!!! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:22 PM Response to Reply #53 |
145. Do you think anyone in Germany thought that the Nuremberg Laws were legal? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Kdillard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:52 AM Response to Original message |
55. Nail on head. K and rec. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jewishlibrl (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:54 AM Response to Original message |
56. CAT: "An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:59 AM Response to Reply #56 |
60. That's not what's going on here, but thanks for playing |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:46 AM Response to Reply #56 |
67. They are not relying on an order...that's why they went to the Justice Department |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:24 PM Response to Reply #56 |
146. That's also the lesson of the Nurember Trials . . . which |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jefferson_dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:24 AM Response to Original message |
58. Why do you hate 'Merca... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Jennicut (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:54 AM Response to Original message |
59. Of course the lower level CIA agents were torturing but it was declared legal by the Justice Dept. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:10 PM Response to Reply #59 |
114. There was no legal cover at all for months. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
alcibiades_mystery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:44 AM Response to Original message |
65. They were supposed to *know*, through basic human understanding, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:25 PM Response to Reply #65 |
147. No . . . the military is supposed to be trained in our nation's laws -- |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Richardo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:48 AM Response to Original message |
70. Occam Bandage, you always cease to amaze me |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
shagsak (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:54 AM Response to Original message |
73. It's like having mom tell you to have a cookie |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:42 PM Response to Reply #73 |
121. So are you comparing torture to eating a cookie? If so that is a horrible analogy. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
shagsak (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 11:25 AM Response to Reply #121 |
159. really? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 04:49 PM Response to Reply #159 |
167. Taking an order to eat a cookie does not exactly rise to the level of taking an order to torture. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
shagsak (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 05:45 PM Response to Reply #167 |
168. If everyone who is taking orders questions those orders |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 06:45 PM Response to Reply #168 |
170. First you need to get your facts straight. The people being tortured NEVER attacked the US. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 09:31 PM Response to Reply #168 |
173. The point is - the orders WERE questioned.... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:27 PM Response to Reply #73 |
148. It's a no brainer re cookies . . . it's ignoring reality re torture . . . |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
shagsak (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 11:45 AM Response to Reply #148 |
160. not at all |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 12:16 PM Response to Reply #160 |
162. Oh, we're "burning" them if we prosecute them? I didn't know that .. . |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
shagsak (328 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 12:54 PM Response to Reply #162 |
163. lol |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 06:38 PM Response to Reply #163 |
169. I thought "burn" was an intended exaggeration . . . |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
dolo amber (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:06 AM Response to Original message |
75. If I could recommend this thread 1000 times I would |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Peacetrain (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:09 AM Response to Original message |
77. Excellent points |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
appal_jack (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:21 AM Response to Original message |
78. K&R! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EstimatedProphet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:24 AM Response to Original message |
79. Very well put |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
sam kane (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:24 AM Response to Original message |
80. War Crimes. Don't care if their Mommy said it was okay. nt. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
ItNerd4life (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:01 PM Response to Original message |
82. Excellent points and well said! nt |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Phx_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
83. Simply awesome. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
mwei924 (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:00 PM Response to Original message |
84. Honestly, this place will always find something to bitch about... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:29 PM Response to Reply #84 |
149. Yeah . . . and TORTURE is such a meaningless, pitiful little thing to get upset about---!!! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:07 PM Response to Original message |
85. This thread needs to be kicked. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
shawn703 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:26 PM Response to Original message |
89. What is the definition of torture? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
winyanstaz (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:29 PM Response to Original message |
92. well fine,...let the little guys go that thought they were obeying the laws.. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
islandgirl808 (255 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:38 PM Response to Original message |
95. the stanford prison experiment |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Hissyspit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 02:55 PM Response to Original message |
99. Apparently a Violation of Geneva Conventions? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
truedelphi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:27 PM Response to Reply #99 |
104. I'm gonna quote Jonathan Turley as my last words for today on this |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Blue_Roses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:02 PM Response to Original message |
101. You have to be one of the most |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Political Tiger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 04:13 PM Response to Reply #101 |
111. Indeed! n/t |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:12 PM Response to Reply #101 |
115. What seems reasonable to you about rationalizing torture? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:30 PM Response to Reply #101 |
150. Because when our corrupt government tortures, we intend to bury it--??? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
democrank (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:17 PM Response to Original message |
103. I honestly never thought I`d live to see the day |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Bjorn Against (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:48 PM Response to Reply #103 |
123. Well said, it is a sad day for DU to see people here defending torture. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:31 PM Response to Reply #103 |
151. Do you remember the "excuses" when we first found out about the torture --- ???? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:28 PM Response to Original message |
105. Half of DU is only angry at the other half of DU that isn't as angry |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Buzz Clik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 09:11 PM Response to Reply #105 |
133. Now that pisses me off. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Mme. Defarge (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 03:47 PM Response to Original message |
108. A Big K&R for |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Adelante (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 04:54 PM Response to Original message |
113. Well said |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Moochy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:14 PM Response to Original message |
116. Hyperbole is your speciality |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Soylent Brice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:15 PM Response to Original message |
117. yeah, but who do you think will be kicked off American Idol next? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
mix (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 05:36 PM Response to Original message |
119. There is no excuse for not knowing that those techniques were torture. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
ZeitGuy (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:21 PM Response to Original message |
126. K&R, and here's why... |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
mkultra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:54 PM Response to Original message |
127. You got it, and your a lockstepper for having such reasoned support of Obama. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
ms liberty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 06:59 PM Response to Original message |
129. Very well said. My compliments and thanks! K&R n/t |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
uberblonde (993 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 08:18 PM Response to Original message |
130. I wish I could find comfort in this utter horse hockey. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
whatchamacallit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-20-09 09:52 AM Response to Reply #130 |
184. Word |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Buzz Clik (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 09:10 PM Response to Original message |
132. O. Bandage -- you are dead to me. Well, you were dead to me a year ago. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Vattel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 09:53 PM Response to Original message |
135. I hate to say it, |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jeanpalmer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 11:24 PM Response to Reply #135 |
157. Could they be tried under some other statute? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:35 PM Response to Original message |
152. Sadly we've also seen Congress dragging its feet on TORTURE for years!!! |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Truth2Tell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:38 PM Response to Original message |
153. Occam Bandage was just following orders. nt |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jeanpalmer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-17-09 10:54 PM Response to Original message |
156. Even a sadistic CIA thug |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jberryhill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 09:34 PM Response to Reply #156 |
174. "Any belief that a memo from DOJ could authorize assault is unreasonable" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
Honeycombe8 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 11:50 AM Response to Original message |
161. Excellent post. nt |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 02:21 PM Response to Original message |
166. Why would anybody expect otherwise of DUers? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
TankLV (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 10:51 PM Response to Original message |
176. "Just Following Orders" is NO EXCUSE since the NAZI WAR CRIMES TRIALS |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-18-09 10:58 PM Response to Reply #176 |
177. Except that they weren't "just following orders" |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
conscious evolution (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-19-09 08:59 AM Response to Reply #177 |
178. The DOJ clarifications |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
PeaceNikki (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Apr-19-09 09:16 AM Response to Reply #178 |
179. Those principles relate to international law - not US law. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
conscious evolution (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-20-09 05:53 AM Response to Reply #179 |
181. What US law? |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
jewishlibrl (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-20-09 07:48 AM Response to Original message |
182. Rahm Emanuel's statements change everything |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
trudyco (975 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-20-09 12:35 PM Response to Reply #182 |
186. Yep. |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
whatchamacallit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Apr-20-09 10:01 AM Response to Original message |
185. I only know one thing |
Printer Friendly | Permalink | | Top |
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu Oct 17th 2024, 10:31 PM Response to Original message |
Advertisements [?] |
Top |
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) |
Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators
Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.
Home | Discussion Forums | Journals | Store | Donate
About DU | Contact Us | Privacy Policy
Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.
© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC