Don't be stupid. Prosecuting torturers could derail Healthcare reform

[Perky]

Look if the DOJ went after CIA operatives it would absolutely readicalize the wingnuts and GOP sentatore fearful of Limbaugh and Hannity's party would have to come out against Obama on that front and it is naive to think that the ensuing acrimony in the Senate would not cascade over into other critically important policy fights.

Trying to take down operatives as proxies for Bush/Cherney/Ashcroft/Gonzales is only going to create real problems throughout the CIA and will probably not result in convictions because like it or not, the memos make reasonable ass-covers. Even if it did result in convictions, no one here will feel justice has been served because the real villains will go unpunished and those convicted will become heroic martyrs to the a whole cacophony of people on the right.

Bottom line is that there is no upside to prosecution or conviction that can not be resolved more conclusively with a Bi-Partisan Truth Commission, every one who testifies is going to get immunized. That allow for a more direct censure of the former regime and tell the world that we will never go down this road again.

By taking the approach he has taken, Obama sets up Leahy (and I suspect Pelosi) to champion the issue for the left, and he gets to immunize himself from attacks from the right about being soft on terror. This is how the sausage gets made.


Getting into the weeds on this has no upside. THe president understands this because he is playing tri-dimensionable chess while some of want him to play checkers.

Your anger at Bush and Cheney is not going to be assuaged by going after those on the front lines and if it serves to galvanize the fractured RW, other fights could be lost or become much harder.

Sorry but some people around here need to get your head out of their ass and see the bigger picture.

[mmonk]

1. They are so related.

Everybody knows a society cannot do things for its people if it is constantly upholding the law.

[ananda]

2. What a serpentine way to say something utterly ridiculous.

nt

[mix]

3. It could also cause the oceans to boil. n/t

[bluestateguy]

4. Sadly, you may be right

They rightwingnoise machine will turn those CIA agents into Jack Bauer-like heroes in no time flat.

[Clio the Leo]

5. You're right about the sausage....

... it's not always pretty. It does not always conform to our idealistic desires.

But it works.

"By taking the approach he has taken, Obama sets up Leahy (and I suspect Pelosi) to champion the issue for the left, and he gets to immunize himself from attacks from the right about being soft on terror." ..... I agree

[TBF]

6. What were the tea parties? And while we're at it, what healthcare reform?

The right is already far more solid than the left, they have already been out protesting. As for derailing "healthcare reform", there is no reform if single payer is off the table.

What you really are saying is business as usual, and nobody is being prosecuted for bad acts. At least be honest about your position.

[4dsc]

7. BULL FUCKING SHIT!!!

If Obama is guilty of obstruction on this matter then there is the problem here.. We need to UPHOLD the LAWS of the USA or forever be known as a week kneed party that failed American.. I absolutely hate those that want to make our party weaker than it already is..

[MarjorieG]

9. Angry language noted. Party is stronger when we move this country forward, not stalled in court.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

13. And Strength of Party is paramount... (Do people even read "1984" anymore?)

[Perky]

10. But see that's the problem. You are starting from a partisan position

Prosecution has to be be non=partisan otherwise we are no better than the last regime.

Ther can be absolutely no politics in the process.

[HamdenRice]

14. Uphold the laws? Do you know what they are? What the effect of an opinion is?

Bottom line is that legally if the CIA operatives relied on DOJ memoranda of law, they can't be prosecuted.

The lawyers who wrote them can be, as can higher officials.

But if you're going to scream about upholding the law, you need to know what the law is.

[MarjorieG]

8. I always appreciate the gray, and this CYA aspect of DoJ giving cover means spinning wheels, not

justice.

I, for one, would rather a functioning administration. Not wasting this opportunity of an Obama on health care, and even the economy. Another not so easy to fix or understand problem, and still have the appearance of dollars to do health care.

[FreakinDJ]

11. I'm affraid Healthcare Reform has already been derailed

too much political capitol justifing stimulus package

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. Hmmm... Sounds like health-care could derail punishing war crimes

[HelenWheels]

15. I disagree

The right wing only respects strength. If we let the torture thing go we are exhibiting weakness. I say we pound them on torture prosecution and go full bore for single payer health care.

[xchrom]

16. how the mighty have fallen -- i think you could write this as an

epitaph for america.

[Aloha Spirit]

17. I disagree that the decision to prosecute torture cases should be based on healthcare politics.

Is this post sarcastic?

[Starry Messenger]

18. .

[nomaco-10]

19. What are you trying to say?....

It's already been well established that President Obama can walk and chew gum at the same time. Why do you still want to compromise and capitulate? Weren't we told that for the last eight years with disastrous results?

[biopowertoday]

20. ah, more fear tactics and caving to the RW.

NOT cool--

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Purity! Rule of law! Even if it results in a civil war! Purity! Rule of law! Consequences be damned!

Let justice be done though the heaven's fall!!!!

Meanwhile, millions suffer under the weight of a thoroughly broken social system. But never mind all that! I saw something ON THE NEWS!!!!

:sarcasm:

[Life Long Dem]

22. They'd find something else to complain about anyway.

We need to move forward and forget about this lost group.

[Autumn]

23. I don't think that will derail it

the insurance companies will.

[Perky]

24. .

[ProSense]

25. Good grief. n/t

[Moochy]

26. Apologist Drivel

"No upside to prosecution or conviction"

You want a political solution to a legal problem? sounds like a crappy idea to me.

[depakid]

27. That's a strange rationalization

Seeing as how pandering and appeasement of the right has NEVER worked in the past. They (along with the lobbiests and Republicrats) will fight tooth and nail against meaningful legislation no matter what the DOJ or Obama does.

On this and several other related issues, Bruce Fein pretty much sums it up: (odd the way he's come around during the Bush regime):

The evidence is now undeniable. President Barack Obama is flouting his unflagging constitutional obligation enshrined in Article II, Section 3 to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed." He is also reneging on his signature campaign promise to restore the rule of law, transparency, and accountability to the White House. He is displaying the psychology of an arrogant Empire as opposed to a modest Republic in continuing and escalating the Bush-Cheney duumvirate's global and perpetual war against international terrorism heedless of foreign sovereignties or the lives of civilians.

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/17-4