A problem with "extreme" partisans right or left is..

[Peacetrain]

is the inability to see the gray areas that most of us live in.

Extreme partisans are like the canaries in the mine shaft. They let us know of dangers ahead.

But to rule from the extremes is a disaster. The "rovian" theory is all about power vested in the extreme 10 to 15% of the right.. and another 15% rights who will follow along, just because it is habit. Leaving 70% of the country having to deal with their world view, and not having any say in it.

It was a "dictatorship by committee"

And that can also true for the extreme left. Granted, I am my own version of that partisan, I am much more comfortable with the left extremes than the right extremes.

But throwing away certain aspects of the Democratic coalition and the great unwashed middle (who really are the power brokers) will in a short span of time, have us sitting out in some field just like the republicans are now.

Let us not assume for one second, that the republicans will not figure out a way to once again address the middle.

[Buzz Clik]

1. Wonderful post.

Thank you.

I shake my head in wonder at those at DU who constantly proclaim anyone who ever voted Republican as evil.

[rufus dog]

17. It is ridiculous to make a blanket claim about anyone voting Repub.

Now anyone who vote for Sarah Palin is evil and bat shit crazy.

[Cali_Democrat]

2. Rec'd

Governing effectively is not about seeing black and white, it's about seeing the gray areas.

You said it.

:thumbsup:

[NavyDavy]

3. the rw is just looking for that crack in our defenses so they can

sneak another "contract with america" in.......thats why they are bringing that old decrepit newt gangrene(?) back out of the shadows...

[Windy]

4. Absolutely! Goverment by the extremes, on either side, is a recipe for disaster. nt

[Captain Hilts]

5. Seeing 'grey' is what being a progressive is all about. Folks here have forgotten that. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. While I agree with the theme, I disagree that we are perched somewhere

out on the far left, leaving the middle to be plucked by the right. I know we are NOT out on the far left because we are not even close to where I stand on most issues.

We are, as a nation, solidly on the left and center, leaving the rightist 30%, and the far left 15% (ok, we are really only about 5%) dangling in the wind.

Pretty much right where we need to be. We just need to control the message, to be sure the right doesn't conflate the middle with the far left.

[Peacetrain]

8. No I hope that you did not think I was saying we are all far partisans.. far from it

In DU we are a coaltion.. there are far left partisans in here, they are important, because they let us know what is possibly ahead, but we also have Socialists, DNC, DLC ,Blue Dogs, Independents, Moderates, and full centers..

And in an odd way, we are all partisans of our own point of view. But we need the full core of all of us, there has been some frustration as of late, and depending on who is posting.

We do not want to repeat the mistakes the right has made, and need to be careful in thinking they are dead as a door nail politically.. they are not.. Like a snake growing a second head.. they will be back.. and I want EVERYONE on board to battle them back

[TTUBatfan2008]

7. Here's the real problem with partisanship...

It's a distraction to what's really going on in this world. The banking oligarchs control virtually every aspect of our lives. They own the monetary system (Federal Reserve), the media, and the politicians (ironically they've bought them off through LEGAL campaign donations). Little by little, year by year, they are stealing wealth and liberty from the citizens of this country. People need to wake the fuck up to what's going on. They helped fund both sides of WWII, which tells you who they're looking out for. I'm almost certain they engineered 9/11 with the help of the military-industrial complex, which is bankrolled by the banking oligarchs. It's all designed to make us give up our sense of individuality, our wealth, and our freedom.

The ironic thing is that partisanship is a huge tool that they use to keep the public distracted. The mainstream media, as directed by the bankers, constantly turns everything into a left vs. right issue when behind the scenes it's really a freedom vs. slavery issue. They see us as cattle or slave labor, take your pick. Partisan folks can't see the forest for the trees. There's a systematic yet subtle war going on against people of all political beliefs and yet people are completely ignorant as to what's going on. Abolish the Federal Reserve, establish a gold standard so these banking crooks can't just print money out of thin air and then charge WE THE PEOPLE extra interest to pay it back, and enact campaign finance reform to prevent these evil motherfuckers from buying off our politicians. The only way the Fed will be abolished and campaign finance reform against the banks can ever occur is for us to elect a third party. It's up to us to rise up against the current march to tyranny being engineered by the banking oligarchs.

[eridani]

9. Why bother talking to people who accept the Repuke definition of "extreme left"?

[Bjorn Against]

10. I am bothered by the extreme center

Let's face it many people in the "center" are very extreme in their beliefs, Lieberman is one prime example but there are many other examples as well. Many of them support the massacre in Iraq, they support torture, they support warrantless wiretapping, they oppose a woman's right to control her own body, and they support giving large corporations even more power. These are extreme positions as far as I am concerned, and I think it is time we stop giving the "center" a pass when it comes to talking about extremists.

[LooseWilly]

11. Brilliantly well said.

I agree whole heartedly, and I never even realized it.

Thank you for waking me up from an internalized bit of rhetorical bullshit that I've apparently heard too many times to even see.

I'm a leftist partisan, and I also am bothered by the extreme center!!

I am bothered by the fact that ignorance and intellectual laziness is a justifiable basis for extreme moderate positions, but we on the "left" have to justify ourselves every step of the way.

From now on I say, if a moderate can't justify a "moderate" position, then that position is just as much bullshit as anything that comes out of Michelle Bachman's mouth...
(ok, that might be an extreme wording, but I'm liking the gist of what I just said...)

[sampsonblk]

12. You might wanna mention the diff between partisans and ideologues

Partisanship is almost always bad.

As for ideologues, it depends on the quality of their ideology and their tactics for delivering their message.

Just my opinion.

[LooseWilly]

13. An interesting distinction.

So I looked up both the words. Ironically, while partisan is a militant of a faction, or even a geurilla, this was the definition of idealogue:

ideo·logue
Variant(s):
also idea·logue \ˈī-dē-ə-ˌlȯg, -ˌläg\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French idéologue, back-formation from idéologie
Date:
1815

1 : an impractical idealist : theorist 2 : an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology

Turns out an idealogue is just a "blindly partisan advocate...". Which means that for as bad as partisanship is (and the definition is fairly militant), an idealogue is even worse.


Of course, the "party politics" that developed so quickly here in the States sort of forces partisanship upon any who would be political... even more so, I suspect, than a multi-party democratic process would. That's just a suspicion though...

[jonestonesusa]

14. I don't know...what does "extreme" mean anyway?

Wouldn't it work better to look at policy positions according to their merits without labeling them as "extreme," "moderate," or anything else?

Are such policies as an immediate withdrawal from Iraq, carbon cap and trade, or single payer health care "extreme"? Wouldn't it make the most sense simply to discuss these positions and others, and collectively pick the best one?

As one other poster brought up, are moderate solutions inherently better? Why?

I think it's best to avoid labeling policy positions and have more open and honest debates on what works.

[Norrin Radd]

15. Spot on. The use of those labels is the logical fallacy

"poisoning the well."

[Skwmom]

16. Extreme partisans are the folks that blindly support a person

b/c they have a D or R in front of their name.

[iamthebandfanman]

18. i think theres a fundamental difference between the extremes..

and that is,

in their extreme, youd be executed for not thinking EXACTLY the way they do...

in ours, not so much.

[polichick]

19. Here's what liberals got done in this country...

"Civil rights? Women’s rights? Liberals went to the mat for them time and again against ugly, vicious and sometimes murderous opposition. They should be forever proud.

The liberals who didn’t have a clue gave us Social Security and unemployment insurance, both of which were contained in the original Social Security Act."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/09/opinion/09herbert.html?_r=2&ei=5070&oref=slogin


See the article for many more wacky liberal ideas. Without the "extreme" left, this country would never reach its potential. That's where the big ideas are hatched ~ and justice for all is taken seriously. imo the center lacks imagination and guts.

[cali]

20. lol. did you actually see the OP as a slam at the left?

:rofl:

[polichick]

21. Sometimes you're so strange. No, I didn't see it as a slam..,

imo it's important to remember where big progressive ideas come from ~ it's not from the center.