Get your red hot OBama Flip-Flops right here!

[FrenchieCat]

Barack Obama said pictures depicting various poses of torture from gizmo would be released.

Then Barack Obama decided not to release the photos depicting various poses of humiliation and torture.

But as far as I'm concerned, this decision was not a political decision for the President, and here's why:

You don't say you are going to release something as important as these photos,
and then later change your mind without understanding the way this will play politically.

Republicans get to say he flip-flopped; that Cheney was effective; that the President is wishy-washy, and wasn't "thinking" initially.

Democrats get to say he flip-flopped; didn't deliver the transparency he promised; is Chicken shit; and is just like Bush.

Barack Obama wanted to release the photos, but realized that this wasn't gonna be about what he wanted, but what he believed was best for the nation at this exact time.

I think President Obama takes his job seriously, and I believe he felt compelled not to release those photos, and he told us why. That's his job.

I voted for someone who would think about what he does before he does it.
So I'm ok with this decision as long as the photos can be use in any trial
in where they could be needed.

I defer to the President on this decision....as it would be he blamed if anything negative happened to our young people out in the field of battle, not me.

Of course, there are some who will remind us all that I am but an insignificant Obama worshiper and sycophant, and the photos could have actually meant justice served to the world and all of that, especially right around Memorial Day. Well, perhaps so, but again, we would not be the ones responsible for anything that would happen once the photos would be released; he would.

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. Thank You! Thank You! Thank You! (nt)

:kick:

[parasim]

2. 100% agree. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

3. thanks- k&r n/t

[BlooInBloo]

8. Hmm... I sense we are destined for conflict.

:P

[BlooInBloo]

4. Ok Hilter.

:P

[billyoc]

5. The courts will decide whether or not the pictures are released.

Obama can only manipulate the Justice Department, for political reasons, to stall for time.

[FrenchieCat]

10. I don't believe he "Manipulated" the JD, I think he asked

that they fight not to release them....and then he told us why.

You can call it political if you so choose.
I'm not here to tell others how to think,
only to share what I think on this.

[Parker CA]

6. Nice job, Frenchie. Very well said.

[Flabbergasted]

7. I don't care that he didn't release the photos. I care that he said it was just an isolated event

amongst a small group. He knows perfectly well this is a lie. It is a horrible disservice to the troops who were blamed for this. I don't understand why he just let them off the hook.

[FrenchieCat]

11. Weren't these pics supposed to be of what occured at Gizmo?

If so, there were no "troops" blamed......
more like an administration gone wild.....
These are the visual aids to the torture memos,
although it may be that the memos, this time around are more graphic.

[Flabbergasted]

15. Oh I thought it was photos from both places. nt

[FrenchieCat]

19. Perhaps so....

Which actually would make it worse for our troops then.

[Old Hank]

21. No. These photos were taken in Iraq and Afghanistan, not Guantanamo

"President Obama has decided to reverse course on releasing dozens of photographs of detainees held in Iraq and Afghanistan."

http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/legal_beat/2009/05/obama-explains-reversal-on-rel.html

[John Q. Citizen]

9. Actually, a court ordered their release. Obama decided to challenge the court ruling.

He had said that he wouldn't challenge the court order to release the photos. Then he changed his mind and decided to.

So it will be up to the court, either way, if they are released or not.


I haven't read any Dems saying or writing that Obama is just like bush.

I have seen a lot of Dems asking other Dems why their feelings about the release of photos seemed to change when bush was no longer in and Obama was.

As I see it, when bush didn't want the photos released many Dems said bush was bad for trying to prevent the release. The when Obama changed his mind and decided to try to prevent the release, many of those same Dems said Obama was good for trying to prevent the release.

So it's not saying bush and Obama are equivalent, it's saying that some Dems are very inconsistent or possibly hypocritical about the issue of the photos.

[FrenchieCat]

13. The fact that what took place in the photos were at the behest of the last administration

is the reason why what this President is doing, in not releasing the photos
is of a different motive than that of the last President when he did it.

Bush did it to shield himself and his administration,
While Obama is doing it because he doesn't believe salt is needed in the wounds
of our Armed Forces.

So the hypocracy that is being measured is of two seperate scales, IMO.

[rug]

27. The last time DOJ opposed release of the photos you said Obama was playing chess.

I believe your defense was that he wanted a court to order the release, that he expected to lose but the case would set a precedent. The word "brilliant" comes to mind.

Well, now a court has ordered the release and he's ordered DOJ to fight that ruling.

I await your next several defenses.

[FrenchieCat]

47. What I was commenting about was not related to proceedings referring the photos....

but you knew that.

[BlooInBloo]

22. "I haven't read any Dems saying or writing that Obama is just like bush." - lolol

[HamdenRice]

31. Double lol! nt

[John Q. Citizen]

40. Did you make that comparison yourself? Is that why you are laughing?

[Adelante]

42. !

:rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. Actually, that's technically valid.

Anybody claiming that Obama is like Bush is no democrat.

[Cha]

49. I've alerted on a couple of their asses

and they did get removed and threads locked..but, there's more. I just don't have the time.

[grantcart]

12. What a bunch of crap

Everyone knows that you are a SIGNIFICANT Obama worshiper and sychophant.


As a insignificant Obamaphile let me add this;


People who have a knee jerk negative reaction to Obama (left and right) paint him as one that is too politically calculating.


This is an obvious no win situation from a political point of view.


Obviously it would have been easier for him to simply release the pictures and assert the public's right to know.


The only peole who would criticze him are the people who already hate him.


The fact that he has taken an obviously disadvantageous political step is clear evidence that he felt there were more important issues that had to be taken into consideration, atleast in the short term. Those issues may have included a decision that there was a real chance of needless loss of life for the immediate publication.

[FrenchieCat]

14. Listen you.....

I have been told many times that my opinions are to be discredited.....

You need to get with the program!

[tomp]

23. can you distinguish between: ...

...the people who have a "knee jerk negative reaction" to obama and the people who have a "negative reaction to obama"? or is any negative reaction to obama "knee jerk" in your opinion? and, if you can make such a distinction can you tell us whom you are addressing here.

[grantcart]

37. In the following thread there was an opportunity to give this defninition in the particular;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8406187&mesg_id=8406422

Noting the good things that the President is doing is not "blind Obama worship", however the objection to making such a note may (or may not) be it's antithesis.



Calling out particular people who do so would be a rules violation and I really don't search them out and catelog them. There are a significant number of people here who are eager to take the most possible sinister and negative interpretation of the President's action at any given time. They also respond in force with terms like, "Obama Worshiper, Obamacon, etc."


For a simpler and more universal definition I would use this;

"Anyone who is consistently surpirsed and consistently reacts offensively at the fact that the actions of a progressive Democratic President would be defended on a progressive Democratic BB exhibits knee jerk tendencies".


Is that helpful?

[tomp]

48. no, it is not helpful, except to show your own bias ("knee jerk")

the "good things the president does" are a matter of opinion. your statement assumes that you or anyone else can decide which are the good and which are the bad things obama is doing.

your definition assumes that obama is progressive. there are many here including people who are staunch supporters who believe he is a centrist and excuse his actions on exactly that basis (i hope you would agree that progressive and centrist are two different things).

to me it is inescapably, inarguably true that there are many on this board who are knee-jerkedly pro-obama.

so no, not helpful.

[Old Hank]

16. Mind-reading

I wish I had the key to the mind of Barack Obama.

[FrenchieCat]

17. Common sense is something one is born with......

some folks have it, and some folks don't. That's a snark.

But in all seriousness, if you listened, he told you exactly why he wasn't releasing to photos.
You can choose not to believe him, but that would have nothing to do with whether you have a
key to his mind or not!

[grantcart]

18. Actually the most interesting thing about Obama is that he has been very open

about how he thinks. I found "Dreams of My Father" a difficult book to read because of the level of self examination.


It made me uncomfortable, I had to wonder if I had left my life unexamined.

[Hekate]

20. KnR

:kick:

[JNelson6563]

24. Hear, hear!

:toast:

[ShortnFiery]

25. "I defer to the President on this decision ..."

No regular poster here at DU is surprised given our posting histories.

IMO, this philosophy is as BLIND as the GOP who spouted often, "if you're not with the President, you're not an American."

Remember that the President serves US, NOT the other way around.

There's no excuse for this, IMO, moral cowardice. :thumbsdown:

[samplegirl]

26. The Republicans want nothing more than the photos released..

Rush Limbaugh will insist on it. They would like nothing better than MORE WAR!!!

[HamdenRice]

28. Juan Williams said this AM on NPR that Obama wants the SCOTUS to force him

There is a lot of push back from the military. Obama wants to release them and figured that politically the best way to accomplish this was to have the Supreme Court make him do it.


Since the federal court and 2nd Circuit have already decided in favor of the ACLU, it's highly likely that SCOTUS will also agree (something Obama knows as a constitutional lawyer).


It's political cover. It's quite clever.

[rug]

29. It's three card monte, not chess.

[HamdenRice]

32. "Dag, yuck, yuck ... why's that guy movin' that horsey lookin thang all zig zag like?"

"That ain't in the rules!"

If you don't know the rules of chess, I suppose it looks like three card monte or some other simpler game.

[rug]

44. If you don't know three card monte, the money card keeps shifting.

The cardboard tables will be out any day now.

[Romulox]

30. "I defer to the President on this decision..." LOL. Quelle Surprise!

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Clio the Leo]

34. I just hope he doesn't go back on his promise to name Turley to the SCOTUS.

ha ha, Frenchie, that was the line of the week .... I'm still laughing about that one.

[HopeOverFear]

35. I could care less about some photos

Either way he went he wouldve pissed somebody off.

[Jennicut]

36. That is kind of the problem, isn't it? I don't really agree with him on this

but I get that it was a tough decision and one the weighed on him heavily.

[Scurrilous]

38. K & R

:thumbsup:

[dionysus]

39. you hope dust sniffer you

;)

[Blue_Roses]

41. I'm okay with it too because

he's right. This would only make matters worse for our troops. I really don't want to see these sick photos.:puke:

[PurityOfEssence]

43. Gunga Din strikes again

Between time spent carrying endless water for the administration and self-congratulation for being a veritable Cassandra on the obvious full-spectrum calumny of John Edwards, it's a wonder there's any time left for mere narcissism. Those must be very full days.

[akbacchus_BC]

46. Beautifully said, thank you Frenchie. K&R