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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 01:24 PM
Original message
The only pictures I need to see
Edited on Thu May-14-09 01:45 PM by FrenchieCat
are these.....



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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Then don't look... eom
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. How much blood and guts do you need to see? I already KNOW that the US tortured detainees...
No we should not be inflaming the Muslim world further when we are trying to better relations with them after the last 8 years and at a time when the President is going to give a speech in Egypt to try and repair our image.

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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Where the hell did I say I wanted to actually see them? Jesus!
I'll not be looking... not a chance.

Putting myself in the shoes of Muslims, I'd be more apt to be inflamed at the thought that things are being covered up. I would much rather the pictures be released, and an apology given. THAT is what would help repair our image.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I disagree. Muslim may not want to see more humiliation
Edited on Thu May-14-09 02:00 PM by FrenchieCat
at our hands. For you to believe that they will get mad all over again because of what they cannot see is not backed up by anything.

If I saw photos of people I knew being humiliated.....and then time passed, I don't think that not seeing more of those is going to upset me....but I do think that seeing new photos of people I knew being humiliated might piss me off all over again. I think that is the common sense calculus, and the one that our President has made.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What you are saying isn't backed up by anything either...
I gave my opinion, you gave yours. I think yours is full of shit... whatever.
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Windy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Its backed up by human nature. And also by the fact that those who would be inflamed
don't have access to 24 hour news and politics like we do here. For all some of them may know, it will be new torture that is going on.

At the very least, it will be throwing salt in an old wound and just before our president goes to Egypt to make a speech of reconciliation. Don't let that fact get lost.
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. That's pretty insulting to Muslims...
You act like they are all savages living in caves... there's not a chance in hell any of this is new to them.
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muffin1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. I think I just had a mini-orgasm.
Edited on Thu May-14-09 02:07 PM by muffin1
And I'm at work!
Thanks for the pics, and I whole-heartedly agree with your post down-thread.
President Obama is doing the right thing for now, I think.:)
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nice edit
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JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. Sneaky, huh? eom
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. What did we miss?
:)
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Pics of my daughter dancing, and my OP talking about pictures of the future instead of the past.....
Edited on Thu May-14-09 09:53 PM by FrenchieCat
The first post tipped me off that folks don't give a shit about those kind of pictures.

Here's one of them:


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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Well, it's a lovely pic.
Though I'm thinking the first response wasn't really related to it.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. President Obama says what
he means and means what he says and if he's saying that the reason he's not showing these photos now is because of inflaming the situation against our Troops and the Middle East then by Jove I believe it.

You're right..the most important thing is the construction of the investigations.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. No, good order and discipline is seriously strained ... the perpetrators are still in command ...
Edited on Thu May-14-09 02:20 PM by ShortnFiery
positions. No, when you are talking about the military, the actions of "a few" also include RESPONSIBLE leaders from sergeant up to the highest civilian leadership at the pentagon.

DO you honestly believe that TORTURE has ceased JUST BECAUSE Obama said it must beginning with his Presidency? Really? The people who carried out these techniques have not even had to scatter into the woodwork. THEY ARE STILL IN CHARGE.

Why is Gates still Sec Def? He's WAS part of Iran-Contra. Remember Iran Contra?

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_16.htm

What about our Golden Boy, General "Peaches" Petraeus? Do YOU realize that he was HIP DEEP in financial (War Profiteering) corruption investigations that were later swept under the rug upon the "alleged suicide" of a West Point Colonel who MAY have been prepared to blow the whistle on Petraesous covert actions?


Bryce concluded: "In September 2005, the Army's inspector general concluded an investigation into allegations raised in the anonymous letter to Westhusing shortly before his death. It found no basis for any of the issues raised. Although the report is redacted in places, it is clear that the investigation was aimed at determining whether Fil or Petraeus had ignored the corruption and human rights abuses allegedly occurring within the training program for Iraqi security personnel." Since then, the corruption and failed training angles have drawn wide attention although the Petraeus's role, good or bad, has not.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/greg-mitchell/gen-petraeus-and-a-high_b_94458.html

Bryce concluded: "In September 2005, the Army's inspector general concluded an investigation into allegations raised in the anonymous letter to Westhusing shortly before his death. It found no basis for any of the issues raised. Although the report is redacted in places, it is clear that the investigation was aimed at determining whether Fil or Petraeus had ignored the corruption and human rights abuses allegedly occurring within the training program for Iraqi security personnel." Since then, the corruption and failed training angles have drawn wide attention although the Petraeus's role, good or bad, has not.

The writer returned to the case this past February with another Texas Observer article. I've run out of space here so I will merely quote its opening and link to it:

Since last March, when I wrote a story about the apparent suicide of Col. Ted Westhusing in Iraq, I had believed there was nothing else to write about his tragic death. But in December, I talked to a source in the Department of Defense who met Westhusing in Iraq about three months before his death. The source, who asked not to be identified for fear of reprisals, was investigating claims of wrongdoing against military contractors working in Iraq. After a short introduction, I asked him what he thought had happened to Westhusing. 'I think he was killed. I honestly do. I think he was murdered,' the source told me. 'Maybe DOD didn't have enough evidence to call it murder, so they called it suicide.'"

And then there's our new HERO, General McCrystal and his involvement in the Pat Tillman FANTASY and Cover-up.

Tillman's parents want general's record reviewed

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090513/ap_on_go_ot/us_afghanistan_general_3
In a brief interview with The Associated Press, Pat Tillman Sr. accused Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal of covering up the circumstances of the 2004 slaying. "I do believe that guy participated in a falsified homicide investigation," Pat Tillman Sr. said.

Separately, Mary Tillman called it "imperative" that McChrystal's record be carefully considered before he is confirmed.
Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Defense Secretary Robert Gates has complete confidence in McChrystal, whom he hopes can be confirmed by the Senate before month's end.

"We feel terrible for what the Tillman family went through, but this matter has been investigated thoroughly by the Pentagon, by the Congress, by outside experts, and all of them have come to the same conclusion: that there was no wrongdoing by Gen. McChrystal," Morrell said.

DO WE SEE A PATTERN HERE?!?

The same EVIL LEADERS are still CONTROLLING our military in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Given the above evidence: Do you HONESTLY believe that there will be any JUSTICE or even a ceasing of PRISONER ABUSE (it will go covert) if Obama does NOT release these damn Photos and we don't INVESTIGATE and PROSECUTE the appropriate Military Leaders under the UCMJ.

Obama is enabling THE TORTURERS THEMSELVES (leadership involved in actions and subsequent cover-up). These Generals and Civilian Leader (Gates) are still RUNNING these occupations. :grr:

This was NOT Chess by Obama, this is PROOF that "The Pentagon runs Barter town." :nuke:
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. The torture pictures bring us one step closer to that
and help to ward off any predilection to "move forward" and sweep this all under the rug.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. We can't MOVE FORWARD when the same EVIL and Corrupt LEADERSHIP resides within our
Department of Defense. :thumbsdown:

The same GHOULS are still in charge of our military (Gates, Petraeus, and McCrystal).
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. You won't see them either.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. You also were the one that didn't think we'd see Obama as President.
So....ok.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. That's not so. I said whoever won the nomination would be president.
And you won't see those pictures with this one.
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demwing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
17. Agreed. Claims that the pictures "Need" to be publicized are unwarranted
Edited on Thu May-14-09 04:39 PM by demwing
The only people who need to see those pictures are those that have legal reasons for viewing that are pertinent to criminal investigations.

However, if those pictures are leaked, know that there will be idiots that will glorify them as righteous justice against "sub-human" terrorists.

And if you don't think some ass hats will use those pictures to satisfy their taste for the sick and disgusting , ask Christos Catsouras. In 2007 his daughter Nikki stole his car, crashed it at 100 MPH, and nearly decapitated herself. The Highway Patrol leaked the crash scene photos and the inevitable happened: (from the Orange County Register)

Graphic accident-scene photos, including close-up shots of Nikki, who suffered massive head trauma, have been leaked onto the Internet. The images have turned up on hundreds of Web sites and in countless chat rooms and e-mails – from Australia to Italy. The photos often are accompanied by debates about the merits of the images, with many viewers even vilifying the dead teen.

"We're still just starting to deal with Nikki's death, and now this," said Christos Catsouras, 43. "People are sick."

The family blames the leak on the California Highway Patrol, the agency that is investigating the crash. The family has filed a claim against the state as a precursor to a civil lawsuit. The CHP is investigating.

As they continue to grieve, members of the Catsouras family also find themselves struggling to restore some dignity to Nikki's memory – and facing seemingly insurmountable odds to establish some decency in the sometimes insidious, unforgiving grip of the Internet.

The photos are so pervasive, Nikki's 15-year-old sister has stopped going to school out of fear of opening her locker and seeing a photo of her dead sister. She now is being home schooled. A 12-year-old neighbor who accidentally saw the images is seeing a counselor, according to Christos Catsouras.

Some people have anonymously sent cruel, taunting e-mail photographs to Nikki's relatives – including one to her father that read, "From Dead Girl Walking: Woo Hoo Daddy, I'm Alive."


And that's just the pictures of an innocent girl who died an accidental death.

Imagine the torture pictures in the hands of the most Neaderthalian freepers, and how they would hold them up as shining examples of what happens to "ragheads" who fuck with the US.

There isn't any real "need" to make these photos public. Every bit of justice sought by DUers can be found in discriminatory review of the photos by the justice department. The only things gained by a public display would be the unsavory satisfaction of a morbid curiosity, and the grim satisfaction of freepers who would enjoy those images of suffering and brutality.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
18. Me too, Frenchie! Those pics are a sight for sore eyes.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. That would certainly be good. nt
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Accountability is the most important thing.
However, I'm seriously concerned (yes, I used the word) that this is going to get swept under the rug. The moves BO is making seem to indicate just that. These creeps will be back if we don't hold them to account.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. You're never ever going to see those
it's always better to deal in reality.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. ewwww... never knew
that cheney's arms were so hairy! Imagine that BACK! YIKES!!!! :rofl:
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-14-09 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
24. And that is why these photos are being asked to be released...
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39455prs20090423.html

"....include images from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan at locations other than Abu Ghraib.

"These photographs provide visual proof that prisoner abuse by U.S. personnel was not aberrational but widespread, reaching far beyond the walls of Abu Ghraib," said Amrit Singh, staff attorney with the ACLU. "Their disclosure is critical for helping the public understand the scope and scale of prisoner abuse as well as for holding senior officials accountable for authorizing or permitting such abuse."

Only 44 photos were scheduled to be released, the government then said in April that it would release more photos, some reports said up to 2000 photos, now the government says ALL these photos would harm our troops.

Hmmm

http://www.aclu.org/pdfs/safefree/letter_singh_20090423.pdf

No mention of the continued occupation and troop surge into Afghanistan or the fact that in Apil more bombs were dropped in Afghanistan since our original deployment to that country.


Record bombs dropped in Afghanistan in April

http://74.125.45.132/search?q=cache:IP6vMtIy8SkJ:www.navytimes.com/news/2009/05/airforce_april_airstrike_050409w/+Record+number+of+bombs+dropped+in+Afghanistan+in+April&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

"...Air Force, Navy and other coalition warplanes dropped a record number of bombs in Afghanistan during April, Air Forces Central figures show.

In the past month, warplanes released 438 bombs, the most ever.

April also marked the fourth consecutive month that the number of bombs dropped rose, after a decline starting last July..."







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