Clark supported the continued bombing of Vieques PR

[Hoppin_Mad]

DEBORAH ORIN & VINCENT MORRIS, NY POST - Wesley Clark was an ardent advocate of live-fire bombing on the Puerto Rican island of Vieques - putting him at odds with virtually every Democrat in New York, The Post has learned. It also puts Clark in conflict on the emotional issue with one of his most important backers in Congress - Rep. Charles Rangel (D-Manhattan). Rangel said the revelation would not stop him from supporting Clark, but added, "I hope that when he's elected, over a drink I can give him hell over Vieques."

"I fully support every possible effort to continue the training at Vieques," Clark told the Senate Armed Services Committee in February 2000. "To provide our soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen with less than this optimum training in the future would be unconscionable, cause undue casualties and place our nation's vital interests at risk," he wrote in 1999.

During the Clinton administration, Clark opposed a four-month bombing moratorium, claiming that sailors and Marines "may not be fully combat ready" without Vieques' "realistic live-fire strike-warfare training."

-snip-

[Jack_Dawson]

1. (sigh) Why the sudden interest in Clark, Dean Supporters?

Quoting the NY Post? LOL

:eyes:

[democratreformed]

3. As if you don't already know. LOL

Wish I had hours to spend searching for stuff.

[Hoppin_Mad]

4. Ask yourselves the reverse (sigh) -eom-

[Don Claybrook]

6. uhhhh, he wants to be President

I think that warrants attention. He's running a very competitive campaign against Dean, gaining ground (is that the part you wanted to hear?). His positions on issues are quite important. And I mostly like Clark. I have problems with some of his defense-related positions, like his support of the School of the Americas and Vieques. These are valid questions and should be addressed and discussed.

[oasis]

42. Q: What impact will this "issue" have on GE voters. Scale of 1 to 10.

A:What would George Bush do?

[LuminousX]

16. Are we supposed to ignore Clark? You ignore a predator at your own risk.

And whether this is in the post or not, the fact of the matter is Clark supported the continued use of Vieques.

I, too, support live-fire exercises, but there are many, MANY places to do it that would have less impact on people's lives.

[Printer70]

41. Is that the picture...

...of Clark partying with Serbian war criminal, Mladic? That one is a classic. I'm sure he has it framed somewhere. Let's be honest- Clark is a militarist like every neocon in the Pentagon- he supported unilateral war in Kosovo, he supported the war in Iraq. Is this best the Democratic party can do?

[Jack_Dawson]

48. Yes, Clark is the best we can do and we're lucky to have him

[funky_bug]

55. Did you see my post?

Clark is dropping fast in IA, and he's tied with Clark in Tennessee. See the post below "Survey Explains Why Clark is a Hot Topic Tonight."

[funky_bug]

56. This will explain the sudden interest

Check this out, Jack

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=85905&mesg_id=85905

[BobbyJay]

2. Newsflash: Clark used to be in the MILITARY

He's a little keen on who they are and what they do. It's cool if you wish to continue being the party that's seen as weak on defense. I just happen to disagree with you.




www.clark04.com

[Jack_Dawson]

7. Bobby Jay don't you know? Military = Evil

This message brought to you by "Outmoded thoughts that will keep us locked out of the white house forever"

[Don Claybrook]

10. A few of us are still proud to be called liberal

in spite of, and because the media tell us it's a bad word. So here's a toast to the oppressed of the world, and a reminder that the military is supposed to work for us, and not the other way around (even if it doesn't work out that way in practice).

[boilerbabe]

14. I am with you.

No comment on apologists for bombing Vieques. :puke:

[Democrats unite]

17. And who says Clark is not a liberal?

You might want to do some research where he stands on the issues. I happen to be a liberal & I support him for where he stands on the issues.

At least he doesn't have an a rating from tne NRA, like another candidate we know.

[Don Claybrook]

20. Well, I don't think clark is terribly liberal

Nor is Dean, for that matter.

But if you'll look, I was responding to the assertion by the poster above, that Democrats need to be more warlike (no I don't recall the poster's exact words, but that was the tone).

I personally think that Clark is a little more thoughtful than some of his supporters on these matters, but that doesn't mean I agree with him.

Again, on Dean (even though he's not supposed to be the topic of conversation here), he's not real liberal. I think most everyone has agreed on that, although it's an accusation still thrown at him as if he's made that claim. I'd love to have a real honest-to-god liberal in the White House, but it's not going to happen, so I've made my compromise choice. If you're liberal too, then you've compromised with your choice of Clark. And either way, it's ok, but I do insist upon being able to discuss the issues on all sides.

Thanks.

[Buffler]

38. NRA Rating

At least he doesn't have an a rating from tne NRA, like another candidate we know.

This is a serious question, as I do not have a clue as to the answer. How many people running for office who have never held elected office or ran for elected office before have a rating from the NRA?

[OKNancy]

30. One can be liberal and still be in the military

One can also say it out loud, unlike some:

From Michael Moore:

The other night, when you were on Bill Maher's show, he began by reading to you a quote from Howard Dean where he (Dean) tried to run away from the word "liberal." Maher said to you, so, General, do you want to run away from that word? Without missing a beat, you said "No!" and you reminded everyone that America was founded as a "liberal democracy." The audience went wild with applause.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0913-06.htm

[ClarkGraham2004]

40. You're exactly right, and Clark will change the misconception about this.

[Printer70]

46. But can one be liberal and do GOP fundraisers....

....in the recent past. Look, all people should know is that Wes Clark was a die-hard Republican who supported the Iraq war and had nothing but praise for Bush and a few months later claims to be anti-war and is running in the Democratic primary. You draw your own conclusions. Personally, I smell the DLC.

[Don Claybrook]

8. So you're saying that his military experience will occlude

his thinking on all other matters? I give your candidate more credit than that, and you should too. But I believe his support of keeping the bombing range open is wrong-headed.

[Renew Deal]

11. Support came from both side.

Clinton didn't want to close it either.

[Don Claybrook]

13. And Clinton was wrong.

I don't worship at the altar of Bill Clinton. I can and do take a nuanced view that he did some real good and some real harm.

[Jack_Dawson]

21. Don, Clark got in a big fight with the Pentagon

because he wanted to intervene in Rwanda and stop the Hutus and Tutsis from killing each other. In other words, he wanted to use our "military industrial complex" to stop genocide - just like in Kosovo. Would you not agree that would fall under "embracing liberal principles"?

[Don Claybrook]

24. And I say good for Clark on that score

I don't think Clark is a secret Republican. I do think Clark is a pretty decent guy. I do think he'd make a decent president. I would rather have Howard Dean as president. Neither Clark nor Dean is in the mold of the classical liberal. I do think that all candidates have issues I disagree with. Clark's stand on Vieques is one of those issues.

What I haven't seen so far in this thread (take that back, there was one poster)...almost no one has said either 1. I support Clark but he's wrong about Vieques or, 2. I support Clark and he's right about Vieques and here's why...

Wouldn't we have better conversations if we stuck to the point instead of all this going off on tangents?

[Jack_Dawson]

28. Don, I have my doubts about the source

The RW press is starting to look at the numbers and is getting concerned. Ergo, the Clark bashing stories have returned.

In my mind, the NY Post is a right-wing tabloid w/ little to no credibility, so that's why I find it hard to engage on this right-wing manufactured topic...that's all.

[Printer70]

43. Newsflash: Clark is a militarist

Always has been, always will be. He supported the war in Iraq just like he led the unilateral war in Serbia. If you want the Democratic party to stand on principle in opposing unjust wars, opposing the politics of fear, and rejoining the international community- Clark is not your man.

[Hoppin_Mad]

53. Yup ! -eim-

[Renew Deal]

5. lol

You guys are on a roll. Hey, can I get the link to this, and the links to Rangels comment about it from a couple months ago? Thanks

[wndycty]

9. For the record: I disagree with Clark on Vieques and the flag amendment

. . .but I still support him for president, enthusiastically.

[deminflorida]

15. Oh my god...Vieques is a Target Range for god's sake.....

It's been an issue with the military and Puerto Rico for along time, even before Clark....and never not just Clark....almost every Flag Officer in the Military supported the continued training there for readiness purposes...

Keep digging....the records aren't sealed here, and you'll still have a hard time finding anything.

[deminflorida]

18. By the way, you better get those damn records open and clean

up your own house before you accuse somebody else's of being dirty...some of you are starting to sound like Freepers for god's sake.

[Hoppin_Mad]

22. Its a populated island-an ADMIRAL opposed the occupation and bombing LINK

Of Vieques !


Jesse Jackson, Robert Kennedy jr. and other faithful DEMOCRATS felt so strongly about this issue that they went to Vieques, protested, and were arrested for the beliefs.

http://www.viequeslibre.org/

[returnable]

25. And Chuck Rangel...

...one of those "faithful DEMOCRATS" as you put it, opposed the Vieques bombing policy and now supports Clark.

It IS possible to support a candidate and not agree with him 100%.

Frankly, this topic is old news and a non-starter for me. I disagree with Clark on this one, but he's still my candidate.

If Vieques is a deal-breaker for you, hey, so be it. Care to cite an article where your preferred candidate opposed it?

[oasis]

37. Wait a minute. Charlie Rangle urged Clark to run for president. I

guess Charlie believes that saving the planet takes precedent over saving a target range.

[dave29]

44. Al Sharpton got arrested

actually

[dogman]

12. The Rs will kill him with that.

Imagine! Concern for American troops. As Charlie said they can discuss this when he's elected.

[pocoloco]

29. Silver Star and Bronze Star...

I'd sure like to listen in!

[EXE619K]

19. Crawford, TX...not Vieques

IMO, a bit of a strech there.....


DEAN LEADS THE WAY!

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

23. Digging, digging, digging

keep those dogies digging...RAWHIDE!

LOL.

It is fascinating that folks who want to smear Wes can only come up with things from years back that have been part of public discussion and open to public scrutiny through all those years.

It's a bitch to have so little to chew on isn't it guys?

:boring:

This is so cool...I can just copy & paste the same post for all these "revelations" that are sprouting up on DU. Says something about the quality of the "research" going on doesn't it?

Hehehe. :smoke:

[Hoppin_Mad]

26. LOL ! Axciom and 9/11 profiteering is ancent history eh ? -eom-

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

33. When you can come up with

something that PROVES the trash diggers union that this board has become allegations, I'll be happy to take a look...and no, nothing posted on this site so far is PROOF of anything.

Keep digging guys...it's amusing as hell.

:tinfoilhat:

[Foswia]

45. Axciom, guilt by association, Mccarthyism

So Clark is a victim of guilt by association. How can you ever argue against 'Mccarthyism' again?

[Hoppin_Mad]

50. Clark lobbied for the CAPPS II Domestic SPY program -eom-

[John_H]

27. Curious: what percentage of NY Dems rank this as a top 10 issue?

Subtract that number from the percentage of NY Dems who count National Security as a top ten issue. The result is the advantage Clark has over Dean when these two issues are compared.

[LuminousX]

31. Not about political advantage, about what position is the right one

[oasis]

34. Let's have Al Sharpton chime in on this mini issue.He went to the slammer

over his protest of Vieques.

[oasis]

32. GOP shill Deborah Orin, NY Post. a Rupert Murdoch publication.

Lrt's see if Sharpton backs Clark, Dean or Kerry.

[Jack_Dawson]

35. Exactly...what's next, quoting Hannity?

[Hoppin_Mad]

47. LOL ! Didn't you source LIMBAUGH today ?

If it wasn't you - I aplogize.

[Printer70]

49. Are the charges true or not?

I don't care if it's The National Enquirer...if the charges are true and Clark supported the bombing, then it's an issue.

[oasis]

52. The"charges" may be true, but one must question the motives of the NYPost.

This won't matter to 99.9% of voters in the general election so it would appears that the Post is attempting to help Dean.

[Printer70]

54. The Post probably is but should we ignore the charges...

and they are charges to be taken seriously. Ignoring the health and environmental concerns of people to preserve a live ammunition site, when any uninhabited island will do is the MO of a militarist. I'm not surprised Clark supported it and I do not believe that, overnight, he has abandoned all these militarist views. Not for a moment.

[izzie]

36. My husband trained on the Island in 1950. Why not give it a rest?

:shrug:

[corporatewhore]

39. Becuase the locals are still suffering from all of that radioactive

nastiness.I saw a a group of women from vieques talk at a panel last summer.It broke my heart these women grew up in fear.Even during christmas time the bombings didnt stop

[corporatewhore]

51. I am suprised at people who think this a non issue

We totally and thourally raped Vieques real people suffered and people are still suffering from all of the tests we have done over there