Pelosi needs parsing lessons from Bill Clinton

[Pisces]

She totally flubbed the press conference about torture briefings. Pelosi knew, was unable to do anything about it, she made a political decision and now she is in the thick of it. This is why she did not go after Bushco. Unfortunately I will have to agree with Bill Maher that there are too many things on the table for this implosion if torture investigations were to proceed. It would galvanize the right when we are in such a strong position.

I am not willing to give up on health care reform, gay rights, etc for grand standing by both parties during a Kangaroo court, where no one of importance would go down. Looks to me like Pelosi would certainly be a sacrificed and the right would choose someone mid tier. But Cheney and Bush would escape and everyone on this board knows it.

We are angry because certain people get away with literally murder and we feel powerless to hold them accountable. Holding these people accountable will not feed, house, or get medical attention to the people of America who desperately need our help.


Yes, I know many will flame me for being to jaded or pragmatic, however, this is the reality. Sometimes it is an either or situation. What will help more people? We already knew what Cheney was up to. We have been discussing on this board for a long time. The world knows, and more will come out that they will have to live with. We have a certain amount of time and political will to get important issues passed. I hope we don't squander it by infighting and going after some people out of vengeance.

[glowing]

1. You are right.. if we don't get health care and the economy fixed, we won't have

a country left to deal with the torture.. Which is why its distracting at this point. There are so many major issues to deal with and pay attention to.. its just one more issue.. I'd let the DOJ do their job first. If people keep losing their homes and jobs, they won't sit quietly around in a tent. Violence and civil unrest will follow.. I'm not sure what will be the first riot this summer... I'm sure some city will burn.

[blm]

4. If Clinton hadn't deepsixed Bush1's crimes, we'd have had a Dem congress in the 90s that ACHIEVED

universal healthcare, that retooled NAFTA towards fairer trade, that shut down global terrorist networks being armed and funded by BushInc's BCCI cronies, that protected the environment and dealt with climate change, that would NOT have wasted a few years investigating Clinton's sex life, etc.

[blm]

2. Yeah, cuz if we had full disclosure on IranContra and BCCI we wouldn't have had universal healthcare

and the shutting down of global terrorist networks, and a Dem Congress pushing fair trade and environmental measures throughout the 90s in preparation for President Gore's administration 2001-2009.

[Pisces]

6. Bill Clinton did not have the political will or the Congress that this President has. This is our

our time, this is our Now. If we squander it we will only have ourselves to blame. Iran/Contra brought down no one:

Oliver North and John Poindexter were indicted on multiple charges on March 16, 1988.<53> North, indicted on 16 counts, was found guilty by a jury of three minor counts. The convictions were vacated on appeal on the grounds that North's Fifth Amendment rights may have been violated by the indirect use of his testimony to Congress which had been given under a grant of immunity. In 1990, Poindexter was convicted on several felony counts of conspiracy, lying to Congress, obstruction of justice, and altering and destroying documents pertinent to the investigation. His convictions were also overturned on appeal on similar grounds. Arthur L. Liman served as chief counsel for the Senate during the Iran-Contra Affair.<54>
The Independent Counsel, Lawrence E. Walsh, chose not to re-try North or Poindexter. Caspar Weinberger was indicted for lying to the Independent Counsel but was later pardoned by President George H. W. Bush.<55>
In 1992 George H. W. Bush pardoned six convicted administration officials, namely Elliott Abrams, Duane R. Clarridge, Alan Fiers, Clair George, Robert McFarlane, and Caspar Weinberger.<56>
George W. Bush selected some individuals that served under Reagan for high-level posts in his presidential administration.<57><58> They include:
Elliott Abrams:<59> under Bush, the Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director on the National Security Council for Near East and North African Affairs; in Iran-Contra, pleaded guilty on two counts of unlawfully withholding information, pardoned.
Otto Reich:<60> head of the Office of Public Diplomacy under Reagan.
John Negroponte:<61> under Bush, served as the Ambassador to Iraq, the National Intelligence Director, and the Deputy Secretary of State.
Admiral John Poindexter:<62> under Bush, Director of the Information Awareness Office; in Iran-Contra, found guilty of multiple felony counts for conspiracy, obstruction of justice, lying to Congress, defrauding the government, and the alteration and destruction of evidence, convictions reversed.
In Poindexter's hometown of Odon, Indiana, a street was renamed to John Poindexter Street. Bill Breedan, a former minister, stole the street's sign in protest of the Iran-Contra Affair. He claimed that he was holding it for a ransom of $30 million, in reference to the amount of money given to Iran to transfer to the contras. He was later arrested and confined to prison, making him, as satirized by Howard Zinn, "the only person to be imprisoned as a result of the Iran-Contra affair."

From Wiki

[blm]

7. The point was that if BCCI's matters were fully revealed there would NEVER have been a GOP congress

and NEVER have been a Bush2 possible, and NEVER have been a 9-11 event.....period.

BTW, IranContra waas just a tip of the iceberg that was BCCI - it was BCCI matters that were ACTIVELY deepsixed by Bill Clinton throughout the 90s.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. Yep and ponies and rainbows for everybody too!!

Damn that BCCI and Iran-Contra...

[RandomThoughts]

3. I think she did great. And it can't be easy for her.

And she also showed alot of strength, she could just walk away from it, but she is speaking for truth, knowing some people want everyone to just think Bush just made a little mistake. And some people don't want to fix and solve the other ramifications caused by years of criminal activity, maybe they want it to be just the way things are done.

The fact that she is speaking gives her credibility. What she is doing is not in her personal best interest, she is doing it because that is her job as a representative of the people. And because it is the right thing to do.

As far as credibility, Bush's administration, and their record of telling the truth has no credibility. We already know Cheney was visiting analysis to cook up bad data for their own purposes, we already know there were intentional misleading of the American people with the yellow cake thing.

Do you really think they told the truth to Democrats in Congress?

[vaberella]

11. If you look at this thread you'd think Pelosi wrote the damn memos and signed on them. n/t

[karynnj]

5. Bill Clinton's parsing got him into an abundance of trouble - he would not be a good teacher

The people I think would be good teachers are people who tell the complete truth to begin with.

[cwcwmack]

8. big dog is good...

the best ever. I'd trade ANY Dem in 2009 for big Dog. I'd put Obama back in teh IL State Senate for big Dog...

My #1 favorite politician ever. If there was no such thing as term limits... he'd STILL be POTUS.

[politicasista]

9. Me will take Obama over B. Clinton any day of the week

Obama is way better as far as integrity goes.

[blm]

10. If you love the sport of politics more than your right to the accountability of open government...

I suppose Bill could be considered worth loving.

For those of us who would have preferred BushInc be jailed or at least fully exposed on their crimes in IranContra, Iraqgate, CIA drugrunning and BCCI, he's not so lovable. Bill's decisions throughout the 90s siding with the secrecy and privilege of Poppy Bush and his cronies led directly to Bush2, 9-11, and this Iraq war.