For The Record: The CIA's existence is based on lying...

[rasputin1952]

They are a Spy Agency; they deal in cocaine in Colombia, they overthrow governments, they do all kinds of things based on obfuscation and outright lies.

I am not surprised that Pelosi was lied to, especially since the R's ran congress for such a long time, and the base for the problem was laid long before Pelosi became Speaker.

This is all based on the Republican tack of getting the pressure of of the bush administration, make Pelosi the scapegoat for all of the problems the country faces. I think we should keep the pressure on the R's. Pelosi has her moments...but she should not be the point of all of the vitriol we are seeing here. Gingrich and DeLay have far more in damning the country than Pelosi.

Thanks for taking a moment to read this.

[The Magistrate]

1. Very True, Brother

We need to keep our focus here.

[rasputin1952]

8. Tossing it back at them is what we should be doing...

they have nothing to base their garbage on...it's all about avoiding responsibility for failed policies...:hi:

[The Magistrate]

9. That certainly Is The Proper Course, My Friend

"I will fight it out on this line if it takes all summer long."

[rasputin1952]

10. Well, I'm doing it locally...

since I don't have national access. Each time I break down the "argument" against Pelosi to the locals...they see it as the sham it is.

[iconocrastic]

23. Nancy needs to give them hell in the way that as Speaker only she can

If she doesn't fall to pieces in the process.

She turned into a puddle of water in that press conference.

But hey - What goes around comes around - deal with it baby.

[firedupdem]

2. Agree 100%. I find it disgusting that Pelosi has suddenly become

the scapegoat and blamed one in this mess!

[havocmom]

3. Yep. And why are there no questions for Hastert? They want to take Pelosi down

and she had no power at that time. Just more divert and conquer tactics.

Cheney and his bad spooks did ALL of this, with a little help from his friends Rummy, Perle and the Wolf.

Liberal media, my ass! Pelosi is the scapegoat for things that went down (lies to go to war, torture to back up the lies) when she had NO POWER.

Liberal media HA! Shilling for the chickenhawks STILL.

Grill Denny and see what he says about the CIA briefings. He got more of them than Pelosi did.

[vaberella]

4. I wouldn't mind them dissolved. I like the FBI better. n/t

[Jennicut]

5. I so want them dissolved. They have been a disaster.

[madmom]

6. I told my SO the same thing, isn't it part of their "game" to deceive?

[rasputin1952]

7. And the R's have changed the conversation to Pelosi...

trying to make it look like everything wrong w/the country is her fault.

The "party of responsibility" is the party of irresponsibility, since Reagan, they have never once accepted that their policies have done little more than destroy the Middle Class and take the nation into a hell not seen since Coolidge and Hoover.

The GOP:

[jeanpalmer]

11. The CIA has botched so many things

When W was spreading his lies about WMD and the CIA supposedly knew better, why didn't they go public then and serve their country? They didn't do shit then. They undermined their country with their silence. And now they want to do in Nancy Pelosi who really was a minor figure in the torture debacle. While covering their own asses.

[rasputin1952]

12. From what we actually know of the CIA...

they've botched just about everything they've been involved in.

[Thrill]

13. That may be true. But to call them liars. Is a terrible political move.

Shame on Pelosi, for giving them fodder

[rasputin1952]

14. They are liars...

it is part of their being.

I don't blame Pelosi...I blame those responsible for starting this whole thing...bush, cheney and the GOP. They set a trap by blaming Pelosi, why isn't that oaf Hastert mentioned? Most of this went down on his watch.

[bottomtheweaver]

17. Absolutely.

Thanks for saying it. :thumbsup:

[bottomtheweaver]

16. They've been causing huge damage to the US for 62 years

and if Pelosi finally calls them on their crimes in a way that leads to prosecution and/or dissolution, you know what? I'll personally fly to DC to congratulate her. The intel parasites need to go before they destroy what's left of this country, and I'm 100% serious. They've done more than enough damage for the benefit of their nazi masters.

[pleah]

15. K&R They are liars and they should not exist anymore.

IMO.

[smalll]

18. Here's why this is a losing talking point -- every country worth its salt has had a "spying agency"-

since about World War I. Just as they've had carbon paper, then radar, then A-bombs, then computer-guided missiles. The way nations have always had things like armies, armaments and fortresses. And every nation uses these to defend themselves, and to occasionally (when possible) get offensive and beat up on other, weaker nations.

This is the way of the world. And every nation's people roots for its own, and understands that God blesses the child that's got its own.

And when you are an American, you root for the CIA et al not just because they're Our Guys, but also because there are points to be made (greatly contested nonetheless) that perhaps the U.S.A. has been, on balance -- ESPECIALLY considering its power over time -- that the U.S.A., on balance, has generally landed in the over-50th-percentile, history-wise, in being a FORCE FOR GOOD (rather than a force for evil.)

And so as long as our armies (or anyone's armies) and spies are faced outward, and are imposing their force and violence on people who are NOT US (viz, non-citizen, foreign, alleged illegal combatants) rather than on the home crowd --- as long as its like that, generally, well...

...people will be cool with that. :shrug:

[bottomtheweaver]

19. The CIA has never, EVER been a "force for good."

Quite the opposite. They've destroyed our reputation on the world stage and done an astonishing amount of mischief right here, all for the benefit of a few bazillionaires. Ditto MI6. Don't be daft.

[rasputin1952]

21. I, (and I presume most others), understand this...

it is the point that Pelosi is being used as a scapegoat under a devious plan by the GOP to take pressure off of bush/cheney for their complicity in making the CIA their private entity in torture.

It is one thing for the CIA, NSA, FBI and probably some other "Black" ops to do their jobs, (even thought he CIA has a miserable record of "success"). When they do things under the auspices of the American people that the majority of Americans find reprehensible...under orders from a VP that Constitutionally holds no power to press for such things...we have a serious problem. That problem needs to be addressed. It was not under Pelosi that this began, it was under bush/cheney/Hastert. To "blame" Pelosi is disingenuous at best, and downright noxious.

We are on the brink of falling into a trap, I think we should be heading toward the real culprits, and if found guilty of criminal activity, they should be in prison.

[smalll]

22. Well I certainly agree with you that Pelosi has got a bum rap with all this stuff --

through a combination of Repuke gamesmanship and (yes, I will call it such -- ) "far left" poutrage.

[Uzybone]

20. Nancy Pelosi or Porter Goss'/George (slamdunk) Tenets' CIA...who to believe??

I'll go with Pelosi everyday of the week.

[rasputin1952]

24. I have to agree...

and looking at this objectively, the few "mistakes" Pelosi may have made are minisculr compared to the miserable record of the CIA. Any agency that is not held accountable under the laws of this nation is going to be a loose cannon, We don't need toknow every clandestine activity, but we certaqinly expect 2 things, they remain w/in the bounds of the laws of this nation and they have more "successes" than "failures"...as it stands, their re3cord is a miserable one...failures and absurdities abound...(poison cigars for Castro & dealing cocaine in Colombia for cash for arms is another that come to mind).

[tj2001]

25. The CIA lies to their own

It's a fact of life. It's part of the business.

(Makes ya wonder how many lie detectors they have in the CIA)

[TreasonousBastard]

26. Of course they lie-- everything they do depends on...

extreme secrecy and cover stories-- most of them can't even tell their neighbors what they do for a living. Lying is their stock in trade and what they do best.

So now that some of the lies have been exposed there are those even here who blame the messenger and just use it as yet another excuse to crucify Pelosi.

(And WTF is Panetta doing getting in the middle of this?)

[formercia]

27. I'll second or whatever...

I met some very honorable people there and I also think I met the worst scum of the Earth.

[rasputin1952]

28. Sadly...it is the scum that gets things done...

probably why they have such a high failure rate...:(

[formercia]

30. Cold Killers

You look in their eyes and there's nobody home.

[rasputin1952]

32. How many times have we seen that in bush, cheney and the others in the cabal?

When I look at Obama's eyes, and Michelle's, I see a spark, I see intellect, I see life.

I hopr that spark never grows cold.

[formercia]

35. Junior does have that look, now that I think about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5667463



A taste of Junior's humanity

[rasputin1952]

36. The man exudes death and denigration...

he has neither heart nor soul.

[formercia]

37. Trained from a young age. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

29. I still say whether or not they lied is beside the point

It was a classified briefing and Pelosi was bound by law to not discuss any information she received in that briefing. The fact is that the oversight provisions created in the National Security Act of 1947 and subsequent laws don't create any real congressional oversight of intelligence activities.

Just informing 8 members of congress about what you are going to do whether they like it or not isn't oversight. We need to change our laws in this regard.

[rasputin1952]

34. I believe we need to change the law as well...

there is no reason why we should have rogue entities running about doing incredible damage under the auspices of protecting the nation.

While we need clandestine activities to protect the nation, they need to be accountable.

[livefreest]

31. well it should be said more often

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Uncle Joe]

38. And the one time, they were ever associated with someone telling the truth,

they were outed.