To those that support the sugar coating of Bush's policies by the Obama Administration

[IndianaGreen]

Now upholding the rule of law sometimes sounds like a platitude. But in recent years, as our country faces difficult challenges in an age of terrorism, it has taken on a new importance and a new urgency. Now, I’m not going to delve into the politics of this today, because a day like this shouldn’t be about a political back and forth. But I do think it is noteworthy that in the last several years we have seen some inspiring examples of people determined to uphold the rule of law, even in the face of tremendous pressure to do otherwise.

Remarks of U.S. Senator Russ Feingold for the UW Law School Commencement Address

Friday, May 15, 2009

http://feingold.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=313081

Appoint a special prosecutor, and be done with it! Punish the leaders and decision makers, not the grunts that were misled into law breaking.

[jody]

1. The piranhas are coming for you. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

5. Dealt with them in 2002 when they supported the IWR vote

IWR was wrong. This is wrong.

[Bluerthanblue]

36. and you and I know how effective that was?- I think you are being

impatient and irrational-

But it's your life.

And your opinion. I don't believe many DUers have given ANY of Obama's decisions a chance to work, and as for the Torture issue- I think YOU and many others are making assumptions and jumping to premature conclusions.

this isn't over by a LONG shot.

that's my opinion.

Time will tell-

[HopeOverFear]

2. ...and into the ignore list you go...

[IndianaGreen]

3. Bury your head in the sand, like Pelosi did when she first heard about torture in 2002

Human rights, and the US Constitution, are not to be trifle with.

[emilyg]

4. That's exactly what most of

DU will do.

[IndianaGreen]

6. Going along, to get along, gave us PATRIOT and the war in Iraq

Not a good outcome.

[lunatica]

9. Letting the Supreme Court select Bush was where it really started

That was the first frontal assault on the Constitution. After that it became impossible to stop them because they were already rolling downhill and gathering momentum like the proverbial snowball. And 9/11 gave them a boost in speed.

[Baltoman991]

15. Kind of

like you do with threads in which Obama is doing something right? I notice that you don't post on those that much unless of course it's to piss all over it.

[emilyg]

34. How nice

I have a follower.

[QC]

7. In an era of responsibility such as ours,

one must make judicious use of the ignore list!

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lunatica]

10. A real question. How does one know if they're on ignore?

I may be on some people's ignore list for all I know...

It seems like such a childish thing to do.

[lunatica]

12. I guess you must have me on ignore...

Maybe this is the way I find out

[PurityOfEssence]

37. I have never used the "ignore" function

I suck in many ways, but hypocrisy's just not my thing.

No, I just went about having my life for an extended period of Saturday afternoon, to return and find my post deleted for an unstated rules violation.

Personally, I have no problem with people using the "ignore" function, although it does make me think that they're unwilling to deal with the world and traipsing on in some self-centered dreamland that brooks no dissent.

I DO have a problem with people who revel in the use of the function, because it's a puerile attempt to rally other censors to hound and hector dissenters from the discussion. That does nobody any good, reeks of mob rule and isn't a virtue in my opinion. The virtuecrats who attempt to shout out and sneer away dissent are not "cute" or anything of the sort.

There's a BIG distinction between hammering those who use the function for their own peace of mind or timorous well-being and those who triumphantly crow how they're going to strike up the band and hope others join in with their black-balling.

This has nothing to do with you; I simply didn't respond because this is the first time I've returned to the computer to check the responses.

Whether one agrees with not using it or not, I personally WANT to know what others are feeling and thinking, instead of merely twirling joyously among those who agree with me.

[laugle]

18. Well said..............

I might add join a fan club.........

I remember when this was a serious discussion forum!

[PurityOfEssence]

35. Yet somehow expunged

Hmmm...

[slay]

19. Um.. you put her on ignore for QUOTING Senator Russ Feingold? Denial much?

You might as well put me on ignore too cause I'm not shutting up about this either. It was TORTURE - Obama is engaging in a COVER-UP of WAR CRIMES!!! Your ignore acomplishes nothing while I KICK and RECOMMEND as well as actually engage in real disscussion in this thread. Unfreaking believable!

*edited for clarity

[LostinVA]

27. Yeah, I don't get that, either

[lostnotforgotten]

11. Obama Massive Fail - Torture, War, Health Care, Economy

eom

[lunatica]

13. Obama's fail?

He didn't torture. He didn't start any wars. Health care hasn't been worked out yet. The economy came crashing down during Bush's term.

Where is Obama's massive fail? He may not be pleasing us, but he's addressing these problems even if we don't like how he does it.

[lostnotforgotten]

16. He Is Complicit In Not Charging Bush And Cheney - He Is Complicit In Continuing TARP

He is complicit in not ending the IRAQ war NOW!

He is complicit in forcing Single Payer of the table!

[lunatica]

20. Says you. Not everyone agrees he's quite a fail yet

[snowdays]

22. Obama is a massive fail on the health issue.

[stillcool]

42. Why? Will your senators vote..

for single-payer? Mine won't. Is it all or nothing at all? And how do you know he's a massive failure, when the bill has not even been written yet?

[Baltoman991]

14. Nah, the

massive fail is all on your part. You want to keep coming here and reporting like a Faux Snooze reporter that's your right to do so.

But don't expect people to pat you on the back except the few here who still can't get over the primaries.

He's doing what he can. I know I know, you want him to start using the same powers that we slammed George Bush for and when he does that you can come back and tell us that "see, he's just like Bush". Nothing the man does is going to please you.

When Gitmo closes it will be "it should have been sooner"
When Health care is reformed it will be "why did it take so long"
When the troops start coming home it will be "well, he finally did something right".

But good luck to your candidate in 2012, I'm sure you won't mind supporting a Democrat to run against Obama in the primaries seeing as how in the past, that's worked out well for our side.

[lostnotforgotten]

17. Obama Is The Leader Of the Free World - The Buck Stops With Him - Like It Or Not!

eom

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lostnotforgotten]

23. Personal Attacks Are Against DU Rules!

eom

[slay]

24. I agree with lostnotforgotten - should I just "get over myself" too?

Should all of us who don't agree with you just "get over ourselves"? Should we start calling each other names like "major pouting cry baby"? What does that accomplish? Can you not make your point without insulting other DU'ers? :shrug:

[lunatica]

25. You're a depressed bunch aren't you?

[slay]

26. What is your problem? Now you are trying to insult people in the title of your posts?

This is over the line - you don't even discuss ANYTHING - you just insult people. :(

[LostinVA]

28. What in the world does this issue have to do with teh Primaries?!

I swear, some posters on here twist like a pretzel to say this.

[Baltoman991]

39. Hardly twisting

I just notice it's the same folks day in and day out who can't wait for a thread like this one to get their daily slams in on Obama and it's those folks who never supported Obama during the primaries.

Sorry if you can't see that but I do a lot of reading around here and it's quite easy to figure it out.

[billyoc]

41. Oh, because, you see, only a PUMA would condemn the actions of the White House now.

Underground, my ass.

[Baltoman991]

43. Hmmmm

I was just re-reading my post and nowhere did I use the word PUMA nor did I mention who those slamming Obama at every turn supported.

Guilty concious perhaps?

[billyoc]

44. Everyone here knows me as a viscious Clinton hater from way back.

But you'd know that if you hadn't been born last night.

[Baltoman991]

47. Aw geez

a comedian I see. Honestly, can you come up with something from the current crop of jokes? I honestly don't care who or what you are.

You turned my post into something it wasn't. See, you ASSumed something that wasn't fact. I do realize that there are more folks here than Clinton and Obama supporters. For you to jump to the conclusion that I was only talking about Clinton supporters tells me that maybe it was you who really doesn't have a clue.

[vaberella]

49. Still spamming...shite! n/t

[slay]

29. I am 100% with ya Indiana Green - sorry your thread is getting hijacked

I don't know what's up with people trying to defend this stuff who just end up calling the rest of us names (see earlier in thread), but I agree - it's wrong for the soldiers to take the blame for this when obviously the blame belongs much higher up - likely with Cheney/Bush.

[pleah]

30. K&R

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slay]

32. Thank you

I'm glad somebody had the guts to say this. This is NOT the Obama I voted for. John Stewart basically said the same thing - with video proof showing his campain statement vs his actions as prez - the other night on The Daily Show - clip here: Jon Stewart Nails it : Obama going back on his own words -- http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=227351&title=moral-kombat

[Bluerthanblue]

38. just wasted 5 mins watching Stewart

make jokes- not much meat here Slay-

I don't know who YOU voted for- but if you based your vote on his interviening in individual cases of people dealing with DADT- or of his releasing torture photos, (while completely IGNORING the fact that he did a very controversial thing by releasing the MEMOS- (which have evidence of torture- and connect it up the chain of command)- then you voted for a candidate that existed in your own mind.

As for people having the 'guts' to criticize Obama- there's no lack of those around here, and hasn't been since before the primaries even started.

:shrug:

You may want to watch your clip again, and listen closely to what is being said. Stewart's beef about ending torture isn't with Obama- his clips are all bush people-

[slay]

40. I wasn't replying to you - but if you don't want to watch Stewart then don't

I don't need to watch the clip again - I've watched it 3 times and with people who all enjoyed it and also feel betrayed by Obama on this. It's OK for me to have a different opinion from you. Did you see the end? Where Obama flat out breaks his campain promise? And John Stewart shakes his head like WTF?

Whatever - stop trying to change me, and i'll leave you alone too. The post I was replying to isn't even here anymore so you have no reference as to what I was thanking the person I replyed to was about anyways. Go ahead and apologize for Obama covering up TORTURE by not releasing the pics (you think Vietnam would have ended if only MEMOS were released - get real) if you want to, but I will NOT - and I will always be disapointed when Obama breaks his promises - and I will speak up about it. EOM.

*edited to remove the word dude since you are a chick

[Bluerthanblue]

45. so every single thing you say

is a 'promise' eh?

Will you also commend Obama when he does something you deem is honoring a 'promise'???

btb- i'm not a 'dude'-

and I'm not apologizing for Obama- nor do I feel the need or desire to.

I have no desire to "change" you- That's your thing not mine. You have every right to speak up whenever you like- and your 'feelings' (disappointment) are yours to do with what you see fit. I also have the right to speak up when I believe people are exaggerating and manipulating facts to suit their fancy.

I watched the entire clip- and watched the end 3 times- because I was waiting to hear how he had broken his 'promise'. :shrug:

He sent an officer who wrote him this letter in Jan-




Did I miss where Congress passed a repeal of DADT? Has he vetoed that?

I believe he WILL see that DADT becomes old, shamefully history- What would you have had him do?

[slay]

46. First off, I'm not President - I never promised things I wouldn't deliver just to get votes

Second, I KNOW YOU ARE NOT A DUDE! Did you even bother to read my edit? I quote: "*edited to remove the word dude since you are a chick" and I did it at timestamp 12:12am where your reply is timestamped 12:45am. I think you are so concerned about making your own statements, you never fully read mine - or perhaps you just misread it. I saw that letter when it was first made public - I stay very informed - and you know what, that letter is WORDS, not actions. So come gloat all you want if he EVER fulfills these promises. (I actually do believe the DADT will be gotten rid of - eventually - but that helps Sandy and Daniel Choi right now - exactly how?) Oh and by fullfilling his promise, you mean like the promise he made about getting the photos out? Your faith in these government people is wayyy higher than mine. They lie. It's their JOB. It's what they do. They are here to maintain order and the status quo, while making minor changes along the way. I was hoping Obama would be a bold leader who would give us the real change he promised. Again, not seeing it. In fact, I'm seeing the exact opposite of change. If you feel otherwise, that's your right. Perhaps Obama does have some grand endgame in mind, and if in the end it ends up that he did, I promise you I will post on here every day for year that I was wrong, and the blind Obama supporters were right. However, I am quite confident now that Obama is a corporate Dem, and NOT a man of the people. As for what I would have had him do - he could say how badly we need Daniel Choi right now since he is a translator, and JUST LIKE JOHN STEWART WAS SAYING - that the need to protect the country should trump the fact that he HAS A BOYFRIEND. He had no problem reversing his decision about the photos for the "safety of the troops", yet Choi's gayness trumphs national security? Maybe you should be the one to watch the John Stewart clip again. But really, my problem is not with you, it's with Obama and his recent actions. But in the end, I hope you are the one who is right about Obama, however I feel unfortunatly that I will be right. EOM.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. I promise not

to gloat when DADT is repealed under Obama- as I truly believe it will be.

As for Sandy- she didn't expect Obama to be able to help her, and said as much in her letter to him, (the one he replies to that i posted).

As for 'words' being 'just words'- well, what were the things he spoke on the clip on Stewart's show? were they 'actions'?

I realize the issue of DADT is near the top of the list on some people's agendas, and I don't see anything wrong with that- but I also can see that it might not be on the top of what Pres.Obama is dealing with. If you really look at all the myriad of issues he's had to face since taking office- and the relatively brief time he has actually BEEN in office, I'd hope you'd cut the man just a little slack- not change your priorities, or stop pushing forward on issues that you are passionate about. Just realize that he IS simply- a man. a human being- just like you and me.

People accuse us of seeing Obama as a 'messiah'- I never have seen him that way- It seems to me that some of the very people who made those accusations are the ones who are expecting that he WOULD govern as only someone who was 'supernatural' could possibly govern.-

And about the 'dude' comment- it's no big deal. It takes me a very long time to write my thoughts- I hadn't seen your edit- and I was only clarifying- my user name, like so many, is neuter-

I spend more time than i wish i had to with people who parrot rush limbaugh- and applaud tea-baggers, so when I come to DU and hear my friends sounding somewhat like them, it un-nerves me.

I do believe we have much more in common than it seems.

peace~
:hi:

[slay]

50. I agree

I too believe we have much more in common than it seems. We both want Obama to do well - I just hold him to a VERY high standard, perhaps too high. All this infighting here at DU this week has got me a bit defensive so I apologize if I came off a bit harsh. I can promise you I'm no limbaugh/teabaggger type. lol. I do want you to know that I specificly went to check on your status to see if you were male or female and removed the dude comment - just so you don't think I'm a TOTALLY heartless bastard. lol. I don't expect Obama to work magic or anything, but I would like him to stand up for SOME liberal views at some point. I feel like he's almost a liberal appologist - and I'm soooo sick of the word "liberal" having a negative meaning for many people these days. But at any rate - I appriciate your thoughts on things but don't be surprised when I show up in another thread calling Obama out when I disagree with him. We just can not be like the Republicans and blindly support him - like they did Bush - no matter what he does. I only hold him to high standards because I care. :) However I will try and give him a little slack - but just a little.

Have a good evening Bluerthanblue, :hug:
slay

[IndianaGreen]

52. As Commander in Chief, Obama can freeze discharges under DADT

until Congress re-addresses the issue. If Obama meant what he wrote to Sandy Tsao, he would order the Pentagon to suspend and freeze all discharges under DADT pending review by Administration and Congressional action. As it is, Sandy Tsao (the note's recipient) and Arabic linguist Dan Choi were notified this week that they are being discharged.

[Bluerthanblue]

53. have you read Sandy's take on this?

it's really pretty heart wrenching. She's an awesome person imo.

what you suggest sounds reasonable enough, and I'd much prefer that no soldiers were EVER discriminated against in this way- (or anyone soldier or not)- but I'm not president, and I can't pretend that I know all the ins and outs of why he didn't use the option you suggest.


I'm certain that he will not work against the repeal of DADT- and that he truly wants it to stop.

:hi:

[DU GrovelBot]

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[whistler162]

51. Reading through this thread I am glad Congress enacted

the 33rd Amendment to the Constitution.

Now the Senate can begin impeachment hearings on President Obama's blatent violation of the 33rd Amenedment.

33rd Amendment - "All political promises must be fullfilled within 1 week of being sworn into office." The clause is more commonly known as the instant gratification clause!