Report: Bill Clinton To Be Named United Nations Envoy To Haiti

[babylonsister]

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/05/report-bill-clinton-to-be-named-united-nations-envoy-to-haiti.php?ref=fpc

Report: Bill Clinton To Be Named United Nations Envoy To Haiti
By Eric Kleefeld - May 18, 2009, 2:28PM


Foreign Policy reports that former President Bill Clinton is set to be named as the United Nations' special envoy to Haiti, and the announcement could be made as soon as tomorrow.

It's worth remembering that during Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, she said she would put Bill's global reputation to use by naming him as a roving goodwill ambassador. Hillary ended up at the State Department rather than the White House in the end, but Bill still clearly has the desire and opportunities to serve.

[struggle4progress]

1. He's a talented and energetic man: I'd love to see him succeed in Haiti

[TwilightZone]

2. Bill Clinton: "Not 'to Haiti', Tahiti!"

Movie references aside, I think you could send Bill pretty much anywhere as an ambassador, and he'd do well.

[TimesSquareCowboy]

3. They found the one country....

...that has nothing any of his donors might want.

[Thrill]

6. LOL!!

[Baby Snooks]

32. Oh, I don't know about that....

Time will tell. Particularly if Ralph's Supermarkets start popping up all over the place. Which might be an indication that business is once again good. For Ron Burkle and Bill Clinton anyway.

And how much did they make in the Persian Gulf again with their "limited partnership?" We never did find out who the other partners were. Or other partner. What, after all, was behind those friendly smiles in the thousands of pictures of Bill Clinton and George HW Bush?

[Adelante]

4. Good idea nt

[vaberella]

11. Why? We don't want him in Haiti. n/t

[wyldwolf]

25. who's "we?"

[vaberella]

28. A good number of Haitians if the actions of 90s meant anything

and a good number of Haitian Americans.

[wyldwolf]

30. I'll wait to see polling data on that

[polmaven]

35. Ditto the question

"Who are "we", ....adding why don't "we" want him there?

[Cha]

5. I'm thinking Haiti could

use some extra TLC..

[Sebastian Doyle]

44. Or extra DLC, in this case?

:evilgrin:

[Clio the Leo]

7. And if anyone in this hempisphere needs the Big Dawg, it's Haiti. NT

[vaberella]

13. No...no you we don't. My dad voted for Bush because of BC's actions in Haiti. n/t

[joeybee12]

8. Am I missing someting? Why Haiti? I know it's in dire need of help...

...but I don't understand the rationale.

[vaberella]

12. Haitian's don't either. We blame Clinton for Aristide's second run!! n/t

[Catshrink]

9. The Big Dawg

You either love him or you Haitim.

[babylonsister]

14. ...

:spank:

[Captain Hilts]

38. Okay, that's the best post here. No need to read further! nt

[vaberella]

10. Oh God NO!!! HAITIAN's DON'T WANT BC!!! God NO!!!!

I completely disagree with my president on this one...that doesn't mean I hate him. But on this one....HELL NO!

[Beacool]

15. Haiti is the poorest country in the continent.

People are eating mud pies and you would prefer that Bill Clinton wouldn't bring his international political heft and huge fundraising ability to try to help your country????

Unbelievable.........

:crazy:

[vaberella]

16. From your statement you don't know shite...I know what Haiti is and is not.

You read your stories and believe all you read, that's fine. As for why he's not welcome...he's one of the people who helped in reseating Aristide---with Aristide came the drug dealing, elimination of the military and giving guns to hoodlums. Governmental push to blame people who are "wealthy or just have a yard" to be killed, robbed from, and/or raped and violated. Let's just say, there is no love lost with Bill Clinton. If it had been Carter, sure...but Bill Clinton---hell no.

Added to that...you have no idea what Haiti needs or you wouldn't suggest fundraising money.

[HamdenRice]

21. With all due respect, it's a little unfair to blame Clinton. Most Haitians were asking for Aristide

to be re-instated in the 90s. I remember that period well. Here in New York, the Haitian community was overwhelmingly in support of bringing back Aristide -- not because of the man, himself (although he was popular among a large proportion of Haitians) but because of the principle of establishing and maintaining a tradition of peaceful change of power, and no longer accepting the results of military coups and rebellions in the western hemisphere.

Aristide was the duly elected president of Haiti. The people who over threw him were truly terrible -- remnants of the Tonton Macout and an army aimed primarily at the population -- documented killers who were going to wipe out Cite Soleil and other poor areas. Death squads were roaming Haiti rooting out Lavalas supporters, and bodies were being dumped on the sides of the roads all over the country.

Thousands of Haitians were fleeing in fishing boats (and drowning, or being intercepted, and detained at Gitmo, or returned to persecution in Haiti). The military that controlled Haiti were the same ones who persecuted people under the Duvaliers, and they left the international community little alternative than the restore the elected government.

The entire human rights and international community was quite unanimous behind the need to return Aristide to power to establish democracy in Haiti.

Similarly at that time, there was a broad consensus that the army had to be disbanded. Costa Rica was getting lots of publicity in international rights and development circles as the most peaceful country in Central & South America largely because it had disbanded its army decades ago, and it was considered the model for smaller countries that did not face external security threats. Haiti has no conceivable external threats (other than the DR back in the 60s), and like other countries in its situation, only uses the army against the people. A constabulatory or national police force is much more appropriate. In fact, South American countries are continuing to demilitarize for that reason.

It was not possible to predict -- no one did -- that Aristide would become a paranoid dictator clothed in constitutional garb, nor that class conflict would be exacerbated to the point of violence and expropriations.

I understand if the Haitians now despise Clinton and don't want him to be envoy.

I understand if they think disbanding the army was a mistake.

But I think it is wrong to blame Clinton for carrying out the wishes of the Haitians in Haiti, the Haitian American community and the international human rights community back in '95 because of the non-predictable course of events that followed. In fact, part of the timing of restoring Aristide in 95 was that most of his term had expired, and that serving out the last year of his term would be a token or symbolic presidency to preserve the election results, but that he was supposed to retire from the political scene.

[vaberella]

29. There are things to note as to why they wanted him back.

First off he was seen as God by many people, and this is not to marginalize the people in anyway, because he was a Pastor and worked in the slums. Secondly he was one of the first Presidents to speak in Creole. This is not to say that Duvalier did not do that, because he did speak to the people in Creole and to students and elite in French. However, Aristide was the one to push the creole language.

My family never accepted Aristide for several reasons but that's neither here nor there. The reason why they called him back was because he was ousted by the military at the time. Further more there was massive political pressure from the Bush admin and later the Clinton Admin. He was basically ousted a few times. It was his push to Presidency the third time around which was the real problem because at that time it was the start of Haiti's downfall. Bush actually had little or nothing to do with it, because he wouldn't touch Haiti with ten foot pole.

The first time he was ousted was due to the Duvalierist or "remnants of the Tonton Macouts". As for telling me about the Tonton Macouts, you don't need to educate me on this and for some reason it reads as though it's something from Wikipedia, I'm surprised I don't see a translation for it to be "boogeymen".

As for the people fleeing that wasn't because of the death squads. The Tonton Macout has been around since the 50s, if I remember correctly and people were not fleeing the nation in droves then. Secondly there were many elected interim Presidents post Baby Doc who were instated, one of which was a woman and they were not killed. Fanmi Lavalas was created post the first two ousting of Aristide in 1996, so I'm trying to grasp your timeline but your information is like all over the place.

Besides finding your timeline off, I have to wonder where you get your facts. They're also all over the place. Actually one of the biggest external threats to Haiti has always been America and that is well documented. And Haitians have alway seen Domincan Repubulic as a problem because through them the Western powers have been known to want to take over.

As for Aristide..some would say in hindsight but there were a good number of people who did not want him in power. And and Clinton's relations with Haiti was not any better than the Previous Bush or any other president dating back to FDR. As a matter of fact, Haiti has always faced a problem with US influence and that will never change. Clinton did not help matters in 1996 nor in 2000 and actually led to exacerbating the problem in 2000. Since that was his last run by the end of his term. Even that election was totally disputed as being rigged.

Lastly, he was restored in 1994 not 1995.

[HamdenRice]

39. I don't see how there's that much difference between what we're saying

I'm making a small point: It seems unfair to me to blame Clinton for all the bad things Aristide would later do, for reinstating Aristide in 1994 when the majority of Haitians, the international community and the human rights community wanted Aristide reinstated.

It seems to me unfair blame Clinton for not being able to predict that Aristide would be much worse than he had been, when no one else predicted what Aristide’s later terms would be like.

For example, you wrote:

Added to that I had some family who were what we called Lavalas-ist---or supporters of the Fanmi Lavalas (Aristide's political party) and all of them turned the second time around. But majority of my family has always been a bit wary of Aristide since the 90s---even though then he was actually doing good and Bill Clinton's worst enemy.

So you are saying that some of your family supported Aristide, and those supporters only turned against him after seeing his record "the second time around." But the “second time around” had not happened when Clinton had him reinstated. You yourself say that before the second time around he was "actually doing good."

I don't blame Clinton anymore than some of your family members for not predicting what Aristide would be like "the second time around." Your own opinion seems to echo this:

The reason why they called him back was because he was ousted by the military at the time... It was his push to Presidency the third time around which was the real problem because at that time it was the start of Haiti's downfall.

So again, the Clinton administration restored Aristide "because he was ousted by the military" -- in other words, to uphold the principle that elected heads of states should not be ousted in coups. At the time, there was a broad trend of restoring democracy and elections throughout the Caribbean, and Central and South America, and beyond Haiti, upholding this principle was considered very important for the entire region. You also seem to agree that it was the "third time around" that caused the problems -- something that could not have been known in 1994. He was reinstated to uphold the principle of elected government in Haiti.

All I'm saying is that it seems unfair to blame Clinton for not being able to foresee something that almost no one else foresaw -- that Aristide would be a pretty bad president during his second and third terms.

As for conditions after his first ouster, I'm not trying to "educate" you about the "remnants of the Tonton Macouts." I'm assuming that we are both allowed to use the term without either of us being accused of condescending to the other. Their existence was a fact of political life as you well know. In the same way I am not trying to patronize you, I hope you will not patronize me, and assume that I just looked them up on Wiki. At the time, in the 90s, I was living in a mixed African American, West Indian, Haitian neighborhood of Crown Heights, had many Haitian friends (and still have, including being the godfather of a Haitian friend’s daughter), with whom I discussed the situation, had written both my undergraduate and a graduate thesis on the history of the DR, was involved in both research and pro bono work regarding refugees, and was from time to time supervising Haitian graduate students (including one who wrote a thesis on Haitian economic zones, so I had to read most of what she was reading about contemporary Haiti) and with whom I also talked about and kept informed on Haiti. In other words, my opinions on Haiti are not from just now looking it up on Wikipedia, just as I assume your opinions on other parts of the African diaspora are not derived from just now looking them up on Wikipedia.

You seem to agree that Aristide was ousted by the "remnants of the Tonton Macouts" as I had written, so I'm not sure where the disagreement there is. I think we also agree that what made the level of violence perpetrated by the Tonton Macouts different in the early 90s, was that the old Duvalierist order had begun to collapse with Aristide's first election, and after Aristide's ouster, these remnants were trying to reinstate the old order and root out the populist forces that were tenuously in place. As in many other societies, "restoration" and "reaction" are worse than the ancien regime because it has to violently undo the new order. That's why the refugee crisis peaked after Aristide was deposed the first time. The remnants of the Tonton Macouts were going around trying to kill off the Aristide supporters who briefly had held power.

If the Haitians don’t want Clinton as an envoy, I agree entirely with their right to veto his appointment. My only point is that there seems to be some retroactive blame of Clinton for the mistakes of Aristide, as well as the mistakes of the entire international community for not seeing where Aristide was going.

As for the date, my mistake. I knew Aristide was returned to Haiti in the fall of 94, and that Operation Restore Democracy ended in spring 1995, and was under the impression that there was an interim period of military rule, but Aristide was indeed restored almost immediately on his return, before the U.S. turned peace keeping over to the U.N.

[Beacool]

42. That may be your opinion.

But one of the reasons stated for sending Clinton was that he's supposed to be popular in Haiti because he threatened military action in 1994 against Aristides.

[HamdenRice]

45. No, he threatened military action to restore Aristide to power

See posts immediately above for the time line.

[wyldwolf]

46. the very popular (at that time) and Democratically elected Aristide

[HamdenRice]

47. That was my argument in the subthread above. Aristide was popular

I think Clinton is being blamed for how Aristide turned out in his later administrations.

[wyldwolf]

49. yes, I see. But reminding folks again won't hurt. plus imagine this...

...if Hugo Chavez was removed in a coup, the people on DU that claim he was Democratically elected - many who are in this thread trashing Clinton - would be on board 100% for a US military move to restore him to power.

The historical ignorance, hypocrisy, and blind Clinton hatred on DU is astounding.

[Beacool]

50. What can I tell you?

The kooks on the left, just as nutty as the kooks on the right..........

:eyes:

[Number23]

17. What a nasty, IGNORANT post

[Beacool]

41. Why?

It's the truth.

[Baby Snooks]

33. They just need some Stouffer's....

I really have this vision of Ralph's Supermarkets popping up all over the place. Maybe with some help from the IMF.

Can subsidized Stouffer's be the solution to hunger in Haiti?

[Number23]

18. Vaberella, I was just about to ask 'cause it seemed like I remember you saying you were

either from Haiti or somewhere in the Caribbean, what someone who's lived there or had family from there think about this.

[vaberella]

19. I told my mum about it and she was even more disgusted than me.

When it comes to the state of Haiti, let's just say that the US has been the No.1 player in raping the nation. This doesn't even go into the political, economic, and social impact they've had on the nation. People think this was all a narrowed event of Haiti and rarely if ever tout so much of the blame on the US. Added to the problem...the current drama is most definitely foisted onto the back of Aristide and Bill Clinton.

My dad went from being a loyal Democrat starting in the 60s to voting for Bush Jr. in 2000 because of the Clinton's in action. My mother a loyal Republican actually voted for Kerry, but that's a whole other matter. It was a shocker for me to see my dad actually do that and his words to me were, "I can't let them go back into Haiti. Bush is too scared and he won't touch it. The Republican's will leave Haiti alone. The Democrats will force their ideology onto the nation."

People assume Haiti needs money. Haiti was the damn, "Pearl of the Antilles" under Papa Doc. Anyone who has an inkling of our history will know the contentious history between the US and Haiti and secondly they'll know the detrimental impact Bill Clinton had on Haiti. Of all the damn people, it's shocking to me.

Sure, besides being Haitian, this goes deeper from me because it's after Aristide was reinstated with the push and aid of BC that I couldn't go back to Haiti. It's because of that I had family pushed into exile or I had family who was kidnapped and ransomed. Some people could talk their shit as the poster you noted above----but the horror stories I've heard...damn. Added to that I had some family who were what we called Lavalas-ist---or supporters of the Fanmi Lavalas (Aristide's political party)and all of them turned the second time around. But majority of my family has always been a bit wary of Aristide since the 90s---even though then he was actually doing good and Bill Clinton's worst enemy. After his exile, he became BC's best friend and pushed back into power and shit happens and nothing really has been healed since.

[karynnj]

23. This does not seem to have anything to do with Obama - it is the UN rumored to

be thinking of appointing him.

[vaberella]

27. I just realize that....thank God for my Pres.

The UN is a bastard for even thinking of allowing such an action. I hope it stays as nothing more than a rumor.

[wyldwolf]

40. yeah, it should have been Jimmy Carter...

...who helped negotiate the departure of Haiti's military leaders, and the peaceful entry of U.S. forces under Operation Uphold Democracy, paving the way for the restoration of Jean-Bertrand Aristide as president.

[noamnety]

20. clinton has a history of invading and fucking over Haiti

From Stan Goff: "I was supposed to read between the lines of the official guidance and find my real orders, which couldn't be given directly because it was a politically sensitive situation. The Clinton administration was reinstalling populist leader Jean-Bertrand Aristide as president of Haiti, but only because it feared that a revolution against Haiti's right-wing dictator might result in a true popular government taking over. Aristide was a left-wing in a populist way, but easily co-opted.

While the American public was hearing that we were restoring the legitimate president of Haiti, the troops who were obliged to carry out this task were receiving vile anti-Aristide propaganda in our intelligence summaries. We were expected to infer from this contradiction that we were not to facilitate any genuine return of popular sovereignty, and that we were supposed to subvert the local committees of the democratic Lavalas movement, which had helped to elect Aristide by a landslide in 1990. We had to figure this out without anyone officially telling us what to do. They didn't want to end up with a situation where we could say, "I received an order." "

http://www.garlicandgrass.org/issue8/PerfectCircle_StanGoff.cfm

[Pacifist Patriot]

22. I see I'm not alone in my "WTF?" reaction to the news.

[wyldwolf]

24. He raised $300 million in a single day for Haiti last month

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=upi20090519-093502-6972&show_article=1

[vaberella]

26. It doesn't matter if he raised a trillion dollars.

Money is least of all the issue Haiti faces. I'm sick and tired of people thinking we're poor because we have no damn money. Haiti's issue is bureaucratic end of story. Do you have any idea how much money has been raised for Haiti over the years and decades...billions upon billions---and yet it is still poor. Further more, this man aided in damaging Haiti to it's present state. Nothing he can do will rectify that damage.

[Pacifist Patriot]

31. I'm intrigued by the number of people I encounter who think money solves all problems.

Sometimes it actually exacerbates issues by creating temptations for cultures of greed and corruption. No amount of money will buy political and social stability. Other initiatives are needed to ensure the wealth that is there is utilized equitably for the common good.

[Baby Snooks]

34. Did he really?

Where is the money going? Or does he not have to disclose that?

[wyldwolf]

37. yes

:shrug:

There IS a link in my post.

[AngryAmish]

36. "I was going to use protection, then I thought: When am I going to be back in Haiti?"

[masuki bance]

43. Probably Hillary's way of keeping him away from Fran Drescher

" First Published: 15:48 IST(19/5/2009)
Last Updated: 16:56 IST(19/5/2009)

Former President Bill Clinton met Fran Drescher at the Life Ball charity event in Vienna over the past weekend. And he was caught on camera groping the actress! It seems that he likes to keep his fingers on the pulse of the important issues.

Former President Bill Clinton met Fran Drescher at the Life Ball charity event in Vienna over the past weekend.

What happened was an embarrassing brush between the two. The jury is still out, on whether giving a hand in this way can happen accidentally.

Fanny Drescher is an Emmy Award and Golden Globe nominated American film and television actress, comedian, and activist. She especially endeared herself to her audiences in the television series The Nanny.

Clinton is likely to be named UN special envoy on Haiti, so it's perhaps a good time for him to learn to be politically correct! "
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=HomePage&id=6119d224-c618-416d-acee-968bab4c3f90&Headline=Bill+Clinton+with+%27the+nanny%27

[ccharles000]

48. lovely