"The Pentagon was wrong and corrected the record. There ARE preliminary conversations about DADT."

[jenmito]

Paraphrased answer from Robert Gibbs just now to Anna Marie Cox's question about how the Pentagon claimed there were no preliminary conversations initiated by the President about ending DADT. Just wanted to throw that out there.

[jenmito]

1. kick to counter the thread that said otherwise n/t

[Qutzupalotl]

2. kick

[jenmito]

4. Thanks. I don't know why nobody cares. When the Pentagon spokesman claimed Obama

had NOT approached them to start talking about DADT, people here were considering it proof of a broken promise. Now that we find out it's not true, crickets? :shrug:

[SeattleGirl]

6. I'm not surprised.

Lots of folks like to complain that things aren't moving fast enough to get rid of DADT (and it should be done away with, no doubt about that), but when something even a tad bit positive comes out, yeah, crickets.

Go figure.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Doesn't take a genius to figure out.

When some of the same people who attack Obama for not somehow repealing DADT are on record defending Clinton for signing it, it really shows what their motivation is.

[jenmito]

10. Yup...

neither am I.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SeattleGirl]

71. Can you actually address the subject, instead of throwing tomatoes?

I was talking about the SILENCE of people who in other threads scream, yell, and holler (for good reason) over what he hasn't done, but when there IS a move toward getting rid of DADT, yes, all I hear are CRICKETS CRICKETS CRICKETS.

So take your crap and throw it elsewhere.

Obviously, I am not the only person who sees this.

I'm tired of the fucking crap I see here.

The Always Angry: "Obama hates teh gays!"

The Not Always Angry: "Oh, look! Here's a step in the right direction. How about this?"

The Always Angry: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Obama hates teh gays!!!!!"

Sheesh.

And don't bother calling me a homophobe or whatever it is you may be tempted to do.

I'm not.

I just acknowledge things you absolutely refuse to, because it would take away from your anger.

Why don't you use that anger to push not only Obama, but congress, instead of attacking anyone on this board who doesn't think and react exactly the same way you do???? Hmmmmmm???

[Toasterlad]

79. WHAT "MOVE" HAS BEEN MADE?

Describe to me exactly what steps have been taken.

[SeattleGirl]

81. Read the OP.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RetroLounge]

103. Wow, you too?

sad.

RL

[LostinVA]

104. Yes, her too

That one has actually upst m a lot, because they were the first person on DU to be friendly to me.

[RetroLounge]

106. Sadness

:(

RL

[SeattleGirl]

107. Me too, what?

If you don't mind.

Edited to add: This question is not meant as snark; I really want to know.

[redqueen]

108. Guess you won't be getting an answer.

I was curious too.

Someone else told me last week, in a not-so-direct way, that I made them want to puke.

I asked them to explain why... no response.

Seems to be a trend.

[SeattleGirl]

109. I guess not.

And to me, THAT's sad. Tsk-tsking me without giving a reason.....:shrug:

[redqueen]

110. Yep.

I tend to agree with your definition of sad, there.

I don't find it sad when people disagree with me. I figure it's just part of life. :shrug:

[Arkana]

7. It's more fun to turn red with rage and scream OHBLAHMA = BUSH III GUYZ BUYER'S REMORSE

as loud as they can.

[snowdays]

35. Hey--ITS DAMAGE CONTROL--GET IT JEN....

[Starry Messenger]

42. Or

Perhaps people are still at work? They have a different interpretation? Maybe people have you on ignore? Always a range of possibilities. :shrug:

[jenmito]

48. I doubt it. What's YOUR opinion on the subject? n/t

[Starry Messenger]

49. You doubt what?

My opinion: Straight people don't get to decide what gay people care about. That's my opinion on the subject.

edit: bad tiping

[jenmito]

57. I doubt that the people who went on and on about how Obama did NOT initiate talks

for ending DADT aren't posting here for the reasons you listed. That includes straight and gay people.

[Starry Messenger]

59. Why do you doubt it?

Not everyone can afford to post here all day. Lots of people have jobs. Even gay and straight people who care about gay rights.

Since you care so deeply, here is a link that might interest you:


http://www.sldn.org/

Service Members Legal Defense Network. Maybe you can kick down a few bucks to the nice folks getting discharged this year.

[jenmito]

61. "Not everyone can afford to post here all day"?

I find it strange that the same people who somehow found the time to post on loooong threads about how BAD Obama was for not initiating conversations about DADT can't find even a minute to acknowledge that he DID. I DO care deeply about the issue. But I'm disabled (hence my ability to "post here all day") and can't afford to "kick down a few bucks."

[Starry Messenger]

63. Maybe they have you on ignore then.

:shrug: Do you ever go into the GBLT forum and check out people's concerns? Might be educational.

[jenmito]

66. No they don't. I know because

I was posting the other day and a couple people agreed with me with comments like, "Exactly." Do a search if you're interested in where I post.

[Starry Messenger]

68. I read your posts just fine, jenmito.

The one where you compared people concerned about Warren speaking at the Inauguration to protesters like Randell Terry at Notre Dame was a real pip. Eyeopening, in fact.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8339665#8339703

[jenmito]

69. You didn't understand my point. I was talking about THEIR view

of things. Not mine. Here are a few posts you must've missed: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8397385#8397390

[LooseWilly]

70. Actually, she was right.

I, at least, was not responding because I had other things to do. In fact, I still have other things to do... so I'll expand my Spanish vocabulary between instances of asking you what you are talking about.

I saw the clip of Anna Marie Cox asking Gibbs "... are the dismissals of these soldiers a part of the President's strategy to keep America safe, or are they a threat to national security"

As I recall, Gibbs' response was a repetition of what he'd said before. "As I said, when asked that question, last week I believe it was... the President believes that DADT should be reversed, but he's looking for a long term solution, rather than a long term fix... and he feels that Congress is the place to make those changes."

Both those quotes are actually paraphrases... but I'm watching last night's show... I'll edit to get exact quotes once I come across them (I notice you did not include any link or quote...).

In other words: Gibbs just repeated what he had said before. He didn't, as I recall, say that the Pentagon was wrong... and in any case, if you looked closely at the story, the Pentagon said that they had had "The initial stages of a preliminary conversation..." which, as I have argued, is really a very negligible amount of work for 4 months if it was in fact a priority...
Further, the Pentagon has said that it is not doing any work currently to prepare for repeal of DADT. They have also said that they are not even asking military commanders for opinions on the subject.

So, what are you talking about? Please provide some sort of link that suggests that the Pentagon was wrong...

On Edit: here's the clip on Rachel.

[jenmito]

73. K-I apologize to YOU. And here ya go:

Q So you had said that the President is working with the Pentagon and the Joint Chiefs of Staff on "don't ask, don't tell," but earlier this week the Pentagon said that the conversations were "initial" and that there is "no sense of any immediate developments in the offing on efforts to repeal 'don't ask, don't tell.'" So I wanted to give you a chance to correct the Pentagon on that.

And I have two other questions. What other policies are there --

MR. GIBBS: If you ask like that you're going to get bumped up to, like, the first row. (Laughter.)

Let me address the first question because, if I'm not mistaken, the Pentagon did correct that statement on efforts regarding the reform on "don't ask, don't tell."

Q So there are active conversations happening now?

MR. GIBBS: Yes. Yes.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Briefing-by-White-House-Press-Secretary-Robert-Gibbs-5-21-09/

[LooseWilly]

76. Thanks for the link. I have some issues with it though.

Firstly, I'm reluctant to rely on the press secretary's statement that "if I'm not mistaken. the Pentagon did correct that statement..." though it does give some hope. A little ember of hope, so purse your breath one and all, lest that little spark of hope, at this moment far more fragile that the flame of a match used to light a cigarette on a breezy day... purse your breath one and all, lest that spark be extinguished.

Ok, that was maybe a little bit dramatic, but I stray toward purple prose when I'm feeling cynical.

And by the way, estrenar = to premiere, to open. As in Star Trek estreno la ultima semana. (Sorry, I'm not sure how to get accents on a mac).

That said, I couldn't help noticing the next question from Anna Marie...

Q Okay. And then I wanted to know if there are any other policies that the President believes to be, as you said yesterday about "don't ask, don't tell," not in our national interest but is content to let Congress take the lead on? And second, President Truman didn't see it necessary to clear desegregation through Congress, so how is this different?

I presume you see the point here? If Congress didn't need consulting for desegregation of the military, and yet it is still desegregated... then why does Obama feel the need to treat DADT differently?

The obvious answer is political fallout... but even that "answer" nevertheless doesn't address the question: Why he doesn't at least use his power as CIC to impose a moratorium while & until Congress does its review and makes its legislative changes?

Hence, once again... while I do hope that Gibbs isn't wrong, that there might indeed be some work being done at the Pentagon... the fact that it is work that is so "discrete" and "unobtrusive" as to not even catch the attention of the brass at the Pentagon, does not exactly... even presuming Gibbs is right... fill me with a lot of confidence that Obama is willing to do much about this.

Su perspicaz, en este caso, me hace en dudarle mas, cuando es tan dificil encontrar evidencia que si, esta trabajando en reversar el DADT (perspicaz = clever, shrewd... in this case "shrewdness")...

[grantcart]

54. Tks

[Arkana]

3. Well, well, well...

Crickets.

[jenmito]

5. I just used the same word...

in my post above! :hi:

[vaberella]

20. Always the case Jen...always the case.

If it's something they think he's failing on....those idiots come out in droves. Once he does something good, this is the fastest killed thread.

[Toasterlad]

52. Please Tell Me Exactly What "Good" He Has Done Regarding DADT.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HopeOverFear]

8. Dammit, Jen! Now you're taking all the fun out of bashing Obama

and calling him a homophobe!!!! What's wrong with you?

LOL

[jenmito]

11. Sorry!

:D

[Cha]

12. I learned a long time

ago to not take anything at face value as far as other agencies reporting on what Prez Obama is doing..I look at those threads reaming him out for some supposed transgression and Laugh.

And, yeah, I get pissed off, too.

[vaberella]

18. When it comes to O...at this point I NEVER underestimate him...it's better to overestimate.

:D :rofl:

[Cha]

33. It's more

accurate:)

[Terran]

13. Good. He said he would do this, and he's doing it.

As a gay man, I don't understand why more people here don't get that it's not exactly easy for him to just ride out on a white horse and slay this dragon in public. Anything gay-related he does has be handled carefully.

[JuniperLea]

22. Exactly

Fools rush in and all that.

[jenmito]

32. Thanks for your input...

and thanks for not believing first reports and then ignoring the corrected record. :hi:

[uponit7771]

14. HUFF and PUFF ................dammit!!

[CakeGrrl]

15. I wonder if Rachel will stop cutesy-calling him "Bush"

Ehh, maybe not. She lost me after that b.s.

Anyway, glad to see this. It's too bad that some people seem to have a lot of latent anger toward him ready to come charging out given half the chance. The threads calling him a failed corporate tool get rec'd like crazy. It's pretty telling.

It's so obvious to me that he can't just charge around Washington in the limo personally ordering this, that and the other thing to be done ASAP. He and his administration are doing what they can with a Republican Congress that wants nothing more than for him to fall on his face and Blue Dog "Democrats" who seem to do more harm to Progressive causes than good.

[vaberella]

17. She won't. That's her thing.

I've seen her do it all the time. I'm just tired of her to be honest. There was a point I felt she had honest reporting...and to a certain point she does. But overall...there are times she makes Scary Brow seem sane.

[SeattleGirl]

21. There is a cure for that.....you could stop watching her, if you haven't

already.

Funny, I don't see a lot of the bad things about her other people say they see.

But we don't all see with the same eyes, do we?

(And not a knock on you; just saying one's person's ceiling is another one's floor, to paraphrase Paul Simon.....).

[vaberella]

26. Exactly...I love Tweety even when he pisses me off with Pat Buchanan.

People hate him...but then again I don't want watch him for the news. His show is like the political version of Jerry Springer for me.

[SeattleGirl]

28. Good comparison!

:rofl:

I sometimes have the same thought when I watch Tweety.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. If she knows what's good for her she will.

There's a reason why she's hemorrhaging viewers.

[SeattleGirl]

23. Is there something out there that shows that? Seriously. I wonder

what her numbers are like now. Have you seen anything lately?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/18/rachel-maddow-ratings-hit_n_204924.html

[SeattleGirl]

25. Thanks!

[firedupdem]

60. LOL! Not surprised. n/t

[LooseWilly]

74. "... doing what they can with a Republican Congress ..." Which Congress do you mean?

If you do the math, I think you will find that he has a Democratic Congress to work with. I'll admit that a Democratic Congress isn't exactly a courageous body... but it is a Democratic Congress.

And, just because one criticizes Obama, does not prove that said critic has latent anger toward President Obama... some of us are capable of seeing that Obama might just be afraid of taking the political chance that is having his "fingerprints" detectable on reversing DADT. He may be right to be afraid. It would be a very reasonable argument... but to be intellectually honest in making the argument, one would have to admit that Obama has not done thing 1 to reverse DADT. (I consider the "initial stages of a preliminary conversation" to be thing 0. A starting point. Stopping there... is not doing anything.) Why there are so many around these threads with so much latent love toward Obama that they can't even open their eyes and see that... Obama is standing well back from any reversing of DADT thus far. And then admit it.

Once it is admitted that Obama is not doing anything about reversing DADT, then maybe we can move on to deciding if maybe there is some way for him to do something about reversing it... without taking too much of a political beating... assuming that we can agree that human rights are less of a priority than the economy...

[vaberella]

16. Everyone knew this. Well anyone who did not underestimate O.

This was a gimme and I even said as much while everyone else was running ragged and claiming O wasn't on top of this.

:kick: and Rec babe!! Great job and posting it Jen.

[ecstatic]

27. Exactly! This doesn't surprise me at all

Obama made a promise and I believe he will do everything in his power to keep it.

[snowdays]

36. YEAH, yeah, the Generals did nto get the memo's. Now the WH has to do damage control.

any you feel for it once again.

[vaberella]

37. I think so far the WH is the most organized entity in Government.

Why? Because everyone else is falling behind. I don't like Cheney, but the CIA was behind on paper work for Cheney's stuff. A lower level Pentagon guy is saying nothing was presented and then it is. We have congress all in a tiff cause my girl NP is being attacked by Repubs. Repubs have no mind to loose because they are like zombies roaming aimlessly for brains. Finaly we have the Senate and they want to sabotage O...all in all I'm with the WH and everyone else is just grasping to stay afloat. It's when you see the organized set up of the WH that it makes the ineptitude of the rest of the goverment as more glaring.

Oh and as for Gibbs and Rahm...those guys are playing a game with the media.

[snowdays]

98. They blew it on this one. but agree, they

are disciplined (most of the time). But they are dragging their feet on this DADT and now Gibbs was sent out for damage control.

[NYC_SKP]

29. So far, so good...

waiting... waiting... :popcorn:

[jenmito]

44. The wait is over.

Take a look around...

[Raine1967]

30. I believe this is the exchange:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSsd-qL1ur8

[jenmito]

40. She didn't "call him out." She gave him a chance to "correct the record" and HE said the PENTAGON

did correct the record. THEY were wrong.

[Raine1967]

46. I agree.

This was AAR's Spin on it.

And for the record, I really think this LAW needs to repealed thru the Congress. I am really not sure about that Truman comparison-- was there a specific law passed by congress during WWII that was anything like DADT? I don't think that comparison flew.

[Arkana]

55. Truman ended segregation in the armed forces.

Is that maybe what you were aiming for?

[Raine1967]

58. I understand that-

What I was asking was about before said desegregation- Had congress passed a law anything NEAR the likes of DADT? Did Congress pass a law segragating people, or was it just an understood military thing that Blacks and Whites were to be segregated?

I just don't see how a President can sign away a law that congress passed. Had Congress never passed DADT into law we might be in a different place.

[Arkana]

80. I can't recall anything...at least, not in terms of sexual orientation.

As far as segregation, it was probably because of the Jim Crow South...we fought two world wars and to keep the infighting to a minimum, the Presidents during each (Wilson and Roosevelt) just didn't integrate the armed forces. It took Truman to do it--a man who, if you read David McCullough's "Truman" (an excellent read, by the way...I'm about halfway through), was perfectly comfortable using slurs like "n*gger" and "kike" when campaigning for local office in Missouri in the 20s and 30s.

[firedupdem]

72. I was watching Keith and as he announced Rachel's show she

said Ann Marie Cox would be on to describe "going toe to toe with Gibbs over DADT". Why does it have to be introduced as a fight and as if he was against it? Jeez.. That's why I don't watch her show. Everything is negative as hell.

[jenmito]

75. Because she's going by the biased title of the video

posted here that claims Cox "called Gibbs out again" by asking the question. :eyes: She DIDN'T call him out. She "gave him a chance to correct the record" and Gibbs said the PENTAGON corrected the record.

[jenmito]

77. Rachel just said Anna Marie "forced Gibbs to clarify" what he said yesterday-that Obama

DID initiate talks to end DADT. And he just said that the Pentagon was wrong and SAID they were wrong, and that Obama DID indeed initiate talks to end DADT. And then Anna Marie DID say she believes this IS a priority for Obama-to end DADT from talking to different people close to the WH (something like that).

[Number23]

96. Thanks a bunch for posting that. That woman asking the questions was annoying as hell

but I'm glad that we have a clarification from Gibbs on tape.

[Starry Messenger]

102. Ana Marie Cox started Wonkette. n/t

[redqueen]

31. LOL

How long till the next misstatement / misinterpretation causes another drama-filled meltdown?

[snowdays]

34. Gibbs--backtracking is not your speciality.

[jenmito]

38. He didn't backtrack.

[vaberella]

39. Don't waste your time Jen. Obviously the poster is set to blame the WH on everything. n/t

[jenmito]

41. Thanks. You're right. n/t

[snowdays]

100. Broadbrushing is not a good trait to have. And the WH is in damage

control over this issue.

[Adelante]

43. Yes, it's been obvious as hell nt

[Number23]

97. TOO damn obvious. Mr. Magoo could see right through that poster

Makes you wonder why they even bother or who they think they are fooling.

[Cha]

78. Quit crapping on

every postitive Obama thread you see. Quite boring.

[Clio the Leo]

45. Thanks Jen. NT

[jenmito]

47. My pleasure! n/t

[ZombieHorde]

56. Is there any info on these conversations? nt

[Hepburn]

62. K&R....

...Jen, you are on a roll today! :hi:

[jenmito]

64. Thanks again, Hep!

:hi:

[Hepburn]

65. My pleasure, Jen!

Keep 'em coming, OK? :hi:

[jenmito]

67. I'll do my best.

:)

[Hepburn]

82. Lawdy....

...you always do! :hi:

[jenmito]

83. Awwww...

thanks, Hep. :blush:

[riderinthestorm]

85. I'm in. I'm one of "those" who've been pretty critical of Obama and DADT

For the record, I'm a farmer in northern Illinois. The fields are finally dry enough to plant and I've been out since 4:30 am. I came in only to scan the headlines before bed but since I'm being called out, I'll bite. Some days I have time to post in between doing paperwork on a rainy day, and some days (like today, I am slammed with work).

I've asked it before and I'll ask it again, Obama has the capability of suspending enforcement of DADT pending review. There's no question he has that authority. He can suspend the dismissal of gay troops right now while the Pentagon has "talks" and Congress passes the law repealing DADT.

Why doesn't Obama suspend enforcement of this heinous law that is clearly in violation of the 14th Amendment, pending review and repeal? I don't give two shits about the Pentagon here -I'm talking about Obama and what he can do, what he promised to do.

[jenmito]

86. YOU may not care about the Pentagon situation, but that's the point of my OP...

since someone (or more than someONE) started a thread about how the Pentagon's claim that Obama had not initiated talks about ending DADT meant we can consider it a broken promise. We now know he DID initiate these talks and even Anna Marie Cox said tonight that she thinks he's sincere in making it a priority-ending DADT and that he really thinks it has to be done through the Congress.

He did not ever promise to end it via executive order (although he could and should IMO. But he's not breaking a promise).

[riderinthestorm]

88. We know nothing of these "talks". It sounds like ass covering to me.

Also, I'm not asking him to end anything via executive order ( I don't want Obama to be Bush II). For the record, I support the FACT that permanent change on DADT has to come through Congress. Obama can, and should, suspend enforcement of DADT now however, just like he is suspending enforcement of the laws against those who've tortured.

Frankly, the Pentagon's late admission smells in my opinion. You can crow all you like but this "oops" admission follows swiftly on the heels of an uncomfortable meeting today with liberal groups who are not happy with him. We don't know any details on this at all. Gibbs was very, very clear the other day that Obama wasn't going to take any action before Congress acted. Pretty darn suspicious.

[SeattleGirl]

89. Do you think he should send you a personal memo, outlining it?

Just because you may not know specific details of a specific thing, doesn't mean that thing didn't happen.

Just sayin'.

[riderinthestorm]

90. Neither you or I know any details other than a cryptic remark at a press conference.

After a long day of being spanked by groups of liberals who are justifiably outraged by Obama's retreat on multiple fronts, I am not surprised at the comment. That's all.

No more. No less. Nobody knows exactly what happened and I believe that's exactly as Gibbs wanted it. If Obama were serious about DADT, he'd suspend enforcement immediately. He can but he won't.

It's a serious question that begs an answer. You can "read" a positive spin on this all you like, forgive me if I'm less than generous today. It's been a long day and in this harsh light, this is less than encouraging.

Stop firing gay service personnel. It's not that hard.

[SeattleGirl]

91. I wasn't trying to put a positive or negative spin on it. My point was

exactly what you said; nobody knows what happened.

And I would take that as far as not presuming I know how Gibbs "wanted it".

I don't know that either.

[riderinthestorm]

92. Sorry if I misinterpreted jenmito and others "cricketing" about "silence"

It appeared to me that victory dances were being held and high fives were going on that Gibbs said this one cryptic comment. And that anyone who had ever critiqued Obama on his DADT inaction were suddenly being called out.

I apologize if I've misinterpreted your position. I'm quite tired and a bit cranky and definitely unwilling to go trolling the thread to see whose on what side here. My initial impression was that this was some kind of Dem slapdown of those who are critiquing Obama on DADT.

I am not impressed with Gibbs' comments today. I see no reason for anyone who is or isn't showing up on this thread, who has critiqued Obama in the past for his passivity on firing gay service personnel, to be shamed into joining the thread.

There's rain predicted for No. Illinois in the afternoon and I still have a hell of a lot of work to do in the morning. I'm off to bed.

Sleep tight!

[LostinVA]

105. You didn't misinterpet

And, good luck on your planting. I grew up with many farm kids, and I know this time of year busts your ass.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SeattleGirl]

94. Stop it with the name calling

You are really quite tediously obnoxious, you know.

[Toasterlad]

95. Callin' It Like I See It. Sorry You're Offended.

Given your uncritical - not to mention unthinking - devotion to Obama, I'd have thought you'd be flattered.

But I guess pretending to be hurt is easier than coming up with defenses for the indefensible.

[snowdays]

99. Gibbs to the rescue with damage control.

[Wednesdays]

87. K&R

:kick:

[elleng]

101. I suspected the same.

They are talking about it, but nothing on paper at the moment.