Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan

[Meeker Morgan]

Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/21/us/politics/21obama.html
The New York Times

WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.

The discussion, in a 90-minute meeting in the Cabinet Room that included Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top administration officials, came on the eve of a much-anticipated speech Mr. Obama is to give Thursday on a number of thorny national security matters, including his promise to close the detention center at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

The discussion, in a 90-minute meeting in the Cabinet Room that included Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top administration officials, came on the eve of a much-anticipated speech Mr. Obama is to give Thursday on a number of thorny national security matters, including his promise to close the detention center at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

(more)

I suppose he's trying to show Cheney he's not a wimp after all?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. Glory! Flag!

Horseshit.

[ClarkUSA]

2. Unsourced hearsay by biased parties is suspect. President Obama has never used that phrase.

The MSM never stops trying to stir the pot, do they? This is a dupe, BTW. This story was hashed out here the day it was written.

[EFerrari]

4. It's not unsourced at all. Vince Warren has gone on record

in more than one venue as the head of Center for Constitutional Rights. As you would know if you'd read the "hashing out".

[ClarkUSA]

7. self-delete/dupe

[EFerrari]

10. Vince Warren has SAID he was one of the sources.

Are you calling this human rights organization "biased"? Heaven forfend CCR should expose its "bias" in defense of the Constitution!

And your "dishonesty" assertion is ridiculous. How many details do you need to know that holding someone without charge and indefinitely is illegal, not to mention, flies in the face of more than 200 years of American jurisprudence?

Maybe bringing "intellectual dishonesty" into this discussion is a bad move on your part.

[ClarkUSA]

12. Not in the OP's story, he didn't. Link, quote?

[EFerrari]

15. Vince Warren did at least two interviews, on Rachel's show and

on Amy's show where he identified HIMSELF as one of those witnesses.

The segment on Rachel's show is in the video forum and the one on Amy's show is here:

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/22/vince_warren

[ClarkUSA]

17. Nonetheless, it's hearsay interpretation of what Pres. Obama said by a biased source.

I prefer to wait to pass judgment until I see the final plan from the WH which Pres. Obama has said is subject to approval by both Congress and the courts.

[EFerrari]

21. What bias would that be? I'd love to know. CCR's work is impeccable.

[ClarkUSA]

23. See Reply #19.

[ClarkUSA]

8. Read the story. Vince Warren is not mentioned at all & the "two participants" wanted anonymity.

Again, President Obama has never used that term and considering we have yet to see a detailed plan for closing Gitmo yet, anyone speaking as if he or she knew what the President is going to do is being intellectually dishonest at best and a liar at worst.

[QC]

6. Those who spread such rumors must be placed in preventive detention

for the good of the people.

[EFerrari]

13. We have always been at war with the Constitution. n/t

[Xipe Totec]

3. Welcome to the FBI's pre-crime division

[Mojambo]

5. The phrase "Preventive Detention" sends a fucking chill down my spine. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

9. It's meant to. President Obama never said it.

The spin is clear and it's dishonest, given that no one knows the details of the eventual plan that Congress and the courts will have to approve.

[EFerrari]

11. Nope. He used both terms. Prolonged detention for the people

we are already holding and preventive detention for people we are yet to capture.

[ClarkUSA]

14. Link to a transcript where he is quoted as saying "preventative detention"?

[EFerrari]

16. It's "preventive detention" and the link is in #15. n/t

[ClarkUSA]

18. Hearsay interpretation of what Pres. Obama said in a private meeting by a biased source is suspect.

Again, I prefer to wait to pass judgment until I see the final plan from the WH which Pres. Obama has said is subject to approval by both Congress and the courts.

[EFerrari]

19. A biased source?

What is the bias you're objecting to here?

[ClarkUSA]

22. bias - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

"3 a: bent, tendency b: an inclination of temperament or outlook"

Link: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bias

[EFerrari]

24. You're avoiding the question. How is Warren biased? Thanks.

[ClarkUSA]

28. His obvious "outlook" and "bent" on the issue of detainees is the definition of "bias".

[EFerrari]

31. And those would be what?

[ClarkUSA]

32. Go play with someone who has time to waste. Your fallacy re: Vince Warren has been exposed.

Evidence:

Link 1: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8430917&mesg_id=8430992
Link 2: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8430917&mesg_id=8430990

[EFerrari]

34. Still avoiding the question. And you should. Because CCR

has not a blot on their record.

[NYC_SKP]

27. Obama never used the term. Vince Warren admits he never used the term. Case closed.

From the link in #15:

"What was very surprising was to hear President Obama talk about what he called prolonged detention, but what I think we can all safely say is preventive detention, moving forward, the idea of detaining people not because they’ve committed a crime, but because of their general dangerousness or that they may commit a crime in the future. That’s something that the documents that President Obama was standing in front of, particularly the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, simply doesn’t permit. And when I heard that in his speech, I was deeply, deeply shocked that he would go in that direction."

Clearly an independent "interpretation"...

The blogosphere, MSM, and DU is FILLED with this kind of bullshit!

[ClarkUSA]

30. Thank you for the FACTS. Bookmarked for future use.

The blogosphere, MSM, and DU is FILLED with this kind of bullshit!

Ad nauseum and always by the usual suspects. But we know better.

[NYC_SKP]

35. Hoisted...!

by her own petard.

I love it when someone provides the very link that bursts their bubble. :P

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8430917&mesg_id=8430967

Contained this: http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/22/vince_warren

Which I dutifully read. LOL.

:patriot:

[EFerrari]

37. Try again. It's the kind of bullshit you have to discount if you have to accept

anything out of the White House blindly.

Greenwald: http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/05/22/preventive_detention/index.html

Pro Publica: http://www.propublica.org/article/obamas-preventive-detention-problem-breaking-it-down-522#10796

ACLU: http://blog.aclu.org/2009/01/05/preventive-detention-must-be-repudiated-and-overturned/

Amnesty: http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/president-obama-defends-guant%C3%A1namo-closure-endorses-indefinite-preventive-detent

Turley: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=316507&mesg_id=316507

Feingold: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5716284

In this context, I hope I'm ALWAYS one of the usual suspects. :hi:

[ClarkUSA]

39. ROFL

Excellent job!! I'll be chuckling about this one for the rest of the evening. :fistbump:

I noticed the moving of goal posts to avoid admitting that his/her insistence that President Obama used the term "preventative detention" as per Vince Warren's testimony is completely false. That's so predictable, it's funny. :D

[NYC_SKP]

26. "I’m not—still not allowed to talk about the substance of the meeting..."

I don't see how Vince's words on the topic he shouldn't be talking about come any where near a direct quote by the POTUS.

:shrug:

What he DOES say is pretty subjective:

"...The problem is that he goes out the next day, and he has a speech in which he not only embraces the opposition, meaning George Bush’s policies, but then he comes out with things that even George Bush didn’t come out with, like preventive detention...."

And HERE is where he make's shit up, CHANGES Obama's words, that he offers here second-hand:

What was very surprising was to hear President Obama talk about what he called prolonged detention, but what I think we can all safely say is preventive detention, moving forward, the idea of detaining people not because they’ve committed a crime, but because of their general dangerousness or that they may commit a crime in the future. That’s something that the documents that President Obama was standing in front of, particularly the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, simply doesn’t permit. And when I heard that in his speech, I was deeply, deeply shocked that he would go in that direction.

So, I have no problem with the CCR or ACLU, their job is to be vigorous advocates.

But sometimes they resort to spin, distortion, and other tactics that are less than objective in pursuing their goals.

You're not going to find a source for Obama ever using the term "preventative detention".

Obama never used the term...

[EFerrari]

33. So, are you saying that Obama used the term "prolonged detention"

when he meant preventive detention? If he was misunderstood, I'm sure you have a clarification by the White House to answer ACLU, Amnesty, CCR, Turley, Greenwald, Pro Publica and all the rest?

[NYC_SKP]

36. No, I'm saying that Vince Warren is full of shit. And it's not going to stick.

Not here, not anywhere.

The quote from YOUR link to democracy now is pretty clear, Vince INVENTED the term.

There's no way to re-spin that into your question above, about what Obama may have meant, how the hell should I know?

I wasn't there and I haven't seen any video on point. And anything spun out of ACLU, AI, CCR, Turley :wtf:, et al, is not automatically reliable.

[EFerrari]

38. Vince didn't invent the term. Do a search and see for yourself

all the legal scholars that are in collusion with him.

lol

[NYC_SKP]

41. Yes, several others have adopted the incorrect term, "preventive detention".

I read all your links, thank you.

Most of them do not quote the president and his term, "prolonged detention", but instead prefer "preventive detention".

There is a distinction, and for some of the detainees, both may pertain, but we must agree: Obama did not use the term.

BTW, I liked that the ACLU's used the word "Indefinite", which is better, except that they kept the "preventive": "Indefinite Preventive Detention", and I'm afraid "preventive" connotes future acts and is thus misleading.

Thank you for the useful links. I also liked the propublica article.

:hi:

[grantcart]

20. Ancient news. The next day he made a speech that was rather well noticed

where he discussed the fact that it May be necessary. It was discussed here at length in dozens of threads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8425161

The ACLU and others have given a very muted response awaiting the actual details, which seems like a prudent response.

[masuki bance]

25. Reality, finally.

[NYC_SKP]

29. I must have missed that OP, what an excellent post.

Alas, too late to recommend. :thumbsup:

[grantcart]

40. Well somebody posted it here and you can digg it if you are so inclined

(I was googling to find something on a related thread and found that it was the number one google on the subject, even though I didn't post it. I resisted the temptation to quote the pirated publication even though I agree with it 100% lol.)

[leftofthedial]

42. "cannot be tried"

-spit-