A perspective on the California Supreme Court ruling...

[dorktv]

Two groups of people in this country had it much much much much worse than gays do now and it took over a century for each to get to the point of having equal rights-or about as close as they are now.

Blacks-87 years (longer if you count pre-colonial time) from the time that the nation was founded to the time that the Emancipation Proclamation was issued during a war for the freedom of those held in bondage. Longer still if you count the fact it took until 1964 to get the South on board with obeying the 15th amendment. To this day there are reports that there are those in the South who wish to disenfranchise non-whites. And it took until 1965 before interracial marriage was legal. (Still would be illegal if that was overturned in some states, I am looking at you Florida!)

Women-from the beginning of the nation women could not vote and in many ways were considered the property of their husbands. 73 years it took before women had the right to vote nationwide and it required a constitutional amendment. And it took another 53 years before women had the right to control their own bodies. To this day however, that right has been trampled on over and over again.

Gays have become nearly on par with all other rights except one-the right to marry as they choose nationwide. How long has it taken? 40 years since the start of the major gay rights push stemming from the riot at Stonewall.

Keep pushing and fighting but have patience-to paraphrase Molly Ivins, when Aunt Susan started her fight, God and Nature were presumed against her. Same goes for gays in many parts of the country but the tide is turning and is going faster for you than it has for other groups. It will be legal one day-and that day is coming soon but it will not be this day. :(

[msongs]

1. yeah being beat up n murdered n fired for being gay is ok uh huh nt

[dorktv]

5. Um...you are aware of the history of this country when it comes to the

treatment of blacks and other minorities?

I am not saying gays have not been mistreated-I *am* saying is look at how fast gays have achieved near equality-this is a *good* thing and to remember it could be a heck of a lot worse. So keep fighting but keep it in perspective to what has gone on with other persecuted groups.

[valerief]

2. I didn't know civil rights was a contest. nt

[Jamastiene]

12. Sadly, to some it is.

It seems that the ones who see it as a contest are the ones who cannot see that there are more than just straight black people and gay white people. The stereotypes are so ingrained in their psyche that they cannot fathom the idea that we are all equal and should be treated that way. It overlaps. There are other races. It can even be argued that there are other genders, but their poor little minds would explode if anyone pointed that out. They REALLY are not ready to free their minds yet, sadly.

Equal rights for all should mean equal rights for all. Period.

[we can do it]

3. Thanks Straight White Guy

[dorktv]

4. Did ya even check my profile? I happen to be a straight white female.

[Binka]

10. Hey Einstein Your Profile Has Gender Undeclared

Is the poster supposed to be a mind reader?

[Starry Messenger]

6. I am glad for progress in all areas of equal rights.

I am saddened when progress is removed. Remember that Blacks, Women and gays are often three groups who overlap and are not separate categories. And the gay rights movement started in Germany in 1919 and was eradicated by the Nazis. Let's try not to get into contests. We should all be standing together against white straight male privilege.

edit: wrong date

[dorktv]

7. Personally when you put it that way-you make them into a group that will

one day need protection.

I am trying to point out that it takes time to get rights extended to all so do not be discouraged.

[Starry Messenger]

8. Yes.

I live in California so I'm front and center to the recent events. I just wanted to point out that several of the "groups" overlap and putting rights into categories to match often doesn't reflect reality. That's all.

I feel sorriest for elderly gay folk of any color or gender. Some of our older citizens may pass before this legislation comes through to benefit them. My oldest gay friend is 86 years old and served as a WAVE in WW2. Time is running out for people like her.

[bluedawg12]

9. My civil rights are not a matter for your timetable. n/t

[Binka]

13. Amen!

This OP reeks of sanctimonious HOOEY/CLAPTRAP. "Utter nonsense belongs in the shitter." as my late mother would say.

[Jamastiene]

11. Wow, you just wasted a lot of typing on an ill conceived notion.

One question:
Do you honestly think gay people have only been around for the last few years or so? I mean, honestly, you act like we just popped into existence in the 60s or something. We've been around forever and a day.

Seriously, the "Who's Had It Worse?" meme is getting old. It was bullshit the first time I heard someone try to use it and it's still bullshit now. Either we are for equal rights for ALL or NONE. Pick one. Trust a splinter feels the same in the backside of a gay person as it does a woman or black person or any other person.

And just because you seem to need a friendly reminder:
There are gay black women, gay black men, bisexual black women, bisexual black men, transgendered black women, transgendered black men, gay Asians, gay Native American Indians, gay Latinos, of all genders, bisexuals of every race, white gay women, white bisexual women, and MANY MANY MANY other variations thereof.

Free your mind. Quit thinking in black and white only. It limits you and it's a false premise. There is no such thing as black and white only. All black people are not straight and all white people are not gay. All poor people are not straight. All rich people are not gay. All gay people are not rich. All women are not straight. The list goes on and on and on. That's the problem. People need to quit thinking in a limiting binary code. We are not computers. We are people. That's that.

Equal rights for all means equal rights for all. That's all there is to it. Anything else is just bullshit.

[MsUnderstood]

14. No need to be hateful people!

first sorry people are rude. . .that is not the way to make friends and influence voters but what can you do. . .

I get the point you are making to try to alleviate the pain of being slapped down my the majority but what many gays and lesbians find ironic is that if WE (the homosexuals) try to link our cause to previous civil right fights we are told "homosexuality is a choice, being (insert other minority group here) is not. Your struggle is nothing compared to ours" So anyone who tries to tell us to pace ourselves because we are missing one or two rights is assumed to be patronizing or uninformed.

Second, the fight to be here and queer has been going on For a long long time. Sadly because homosexuality is linked with sex (instead of relationships) we've been closeted, ashamed, embarrassed, and confused. When we've come out we've been alienated, beaten, killed, ridiculed, fired, etc.

Third, times they are a changing. With the internet, television, mobility, etc people learn and know so much more about the world around them. Why our Canadian neighbors have had healthcare and gay marriage for years (and God hasn't sliced that pie off the earth yet). My point is that the yardstick used to judge the hatred and ignorance againts Blacks, Native Americans, Women, and Hispanics needs to be adjust for the new speed of the world.


If you want to learn more about the homosexual history and struggle try these books:

And the band played on
http://www.amazon.com/Band-Played-Politics-Epidemic-20th-Anniversary/dp/0312374631/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243407660&sr=8-1

Conduct Unbecoming
http://www.amazon.com/Conduct-Unbecoming-Gays-Lesbians-Military/dp/0312342640/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243407779&sr=1-5

Odd girls and twilight lovers
http://www.amazon.com/Odd-Girls-Twilight-Lovers-Twentieth-Century/dp/0140171223/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243407810&sr=1-1

[Creideiki]

15. You are aware, of course,

that a midshipman in the Navy was executed during the Revolutionary War for being gay, right?

Please take your oppression olympics someplace else.

[olegramps]

16. Isn't the case that the majority have to be convinced of the injustice?

Perhaps I have the wrong perspective but isn't it a fact that the injustices that have been finally corrected were only brought about after the majority of the citizens were able to throw off their prejudices and become enlightened?

I cannot help to put a major portion of the blame on religion for fostering the concepts that Blacks were inferior, slavery was justified, women were inferior to males and were not capable of making intelligent decisions, homosexuality is sinful; the Bible tells me so, artificial contraception was murder, masturbation was the cause of numerous physical ills and a one way ticket to hell for adolescents. The Ten Commandments took a back-row seat to these crucial issues according to our religious leaders and of course the opportunistic politicans feast on such issues to appeal to the masses. Politicans have always shown zeal for being good believers and make of big show of supporting religion. As long as the majority accept these ill founded concepts injustice will rule.

[Creideiki]

17. So execution for being gay isn't enough?

What the hell? Should they have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keelhauling">keelhauled him first? Would that have gotten a bronze in the oppression olympics?

[Bluenorthwest]

18. so you are under the impression that prior to Stonewall

there were no gay people? Because your argument hangs on that being fact. And it is not fact.
And this delusion that gay people are on a par with others save for the right to marry is false. In many states, it is legal to discriminate against gay people in employment and in housing. Fully and openly, legal and practiced daily. So education before pontification seems to be the order of the day for you. Go forth and learn.