Howard Dean has huge huevos/ Ad from www.progressivevalues.com

[doubles]

I thought the guy was finished when Saddam was captured. Instead, he hits another home run saying America is not safer with the capture. Every time Dean drops a grenade like this, it stirs debate and he rises in the polls. Dean is the only Democrat with the spirit to fight the Republicans toe to toe. The other Democrats are too easily swayed, influenced, and fall hook, line and sinker for Republican bait.

Look at that atrocious Ad against Dean by http://www.progressivevalues.com , I would love to know who is really behind this. Democrats should be ashamed of themselves for supporting this group using the face of Osama to attack Dean. We will never win an election divided like that. Is this "progressivevalues" organization clandestinely supported by a Republican organization because they are fearful of Dean? Is it a Clinton/Kerry/Clark supported organization? This is plain ridiculous to state that Howard Dean does not have the foreign policy expertise of Bush. What experience did Bush have coming from Texas. This really sucks people! :grr: :grr: :grr:

Divided we fall!

[Norquist Nemesis]

1. Progressive values

has to be a con thing with this group. I saw the ad completely offensive, not against Dean either, but the group. It's sick.

There's alot of secrecy with this group...too much. Trippi was on Hardball yesterday talking about the ad and the committee. He said they won't open their books to show who is supporting them. Shameful.

[bearfartinthewoods]

29. it's legal to keep the records sealed until february

and i'd be careful attaching the word shame to anyone who wants to keep records sealed.....

[dobak]

2. Don't go painting everyone with that brush of yours...

While the ad is ugly and despicable, I think you should refrain from blaming any of the candidates for it.

I think it is likely a group that backs a candidate or two, but has no ties to the campaign.

[burning bush]

3. Which is the exact same excuse that Bush gave

over the horrendous things said about McCain in the 2000 Republican primaries.

Which brings back the question of why a legitimate Democratic War Hero would do so well against Bush when a Republican War Hero was so brutally defamed and crushed?

[bitchkitty]

7. Oh, gee.

Here I was all concerned because the organization is full to the brim with Gephardt's friends.

You're very trusting.

[Andromeda]

4. It'll come out eventually...

Dean continues to handle it well.

My hunch is it's either Gephardt, Kerry or Lieberman. They would be the only ones who would benefit if Dean was knocked out of the race.

[bearfartinthewoods]

33. those three and anyone who thinks a dean cadidacy will sink us eom

[Egnever]

5. Agreed he is all sack

Couldnt agree with your first paragraph more.

As for the add I think it has helped Dean way more than it has hurt him. The campaigns reaction to it was perfect. And he made a million bucks :).

Prety despicable add for a dem to run, but about what I expect to see in the general. I dont think it helped kerry or ghep any at all.

[Outvoicer]

6. Ads paints Dean as less liberal ... that's a win for Dean

The Republicans have been trying to paint Dean as a McGovern-style Liberal, but in truth he's both progressive AND conservative on some issues.

In other words, he's exactly the kind of person who will appeal to the most Americans.

I don't see any real harm being done to Dean by this ad.

I think it backfires in the group's face.

[doubles]

8. Totally agree......nt

[doubles]

9. Ooops mistake - double post nt

[Renew Deal]

10. There is a new ad there.

I have never seen that gun ad before.

[Octafish]

11. Maybe Trippi ran it.

He got a lot of play for Ho-Ho with all the handwringing this has caused. End result: the ad's given Ho-Ho more publicity than buying an equivalent amount of airtime.

BTW: Where where Ho-Ho's pelotas when he dodged the draft and went skiing in Vale?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. I doubt they want to attract attention to their own achilles

seriously.

[Octafish]

16. Good point, but the technique is called "Innoculation."

This is probably not news to you, NYfM. Please mark as FDUI:

Perfected by Karl Rove, letting out the bad news before someone can give it the correct spin is a means of preparing the public for one's own spin. That way, a significant percentage of the intended audience — in this case the Democratic primary voters — won't be willing to hear the information as spun by Ho-Ho's opponents, whether truth, disinformation or bad information.

Innoculation has worked for Rove. Remember the late Jim Hatfield's (suicide, Octopus) Fortunate Son? Rove fed Hatfield the story about Bush being busted for cocaine in Houston and the judge letting him off after community service. When the author printed the story, the press investigated and discovered not that Bush was the drunken coke-whore he seems, but rather Hatfield was an ex-con who tried to bump off a co-worker.

End result: A lot of free publicity. In an information society as ours, any publicity is good publicity.

[HFishbine]

14. Conspiracy!

When a question arises, look for the most unlikely possible explaination. Some should read Marcus Arelius.

This thing, what is it in itself, in its own constitution? What is its substance and material? And what its causal nature (or form)? And what is it doing in the world? And how long does it subsist?

http://members.tripod.com/ptypes/meditations_eight_1-31.html

[Octafish]

21. For those who have trouble interpreting the printed word...

... or remembering what I wrote, a reminder:

MAYBE.

I didn't write "DID."

Regarding Marcus Aurelius: I've read him, probably earlier than you. His is a logical, ordered mind. Great writer, too. Check out "Bartlett's Familiar Quotations" for a broad selection of his thoughts.

Tell you something, else: I don't give a fuck what Marcus Aurelius said regarding conspiracies happening today. Was the guy around in Dealey Plaza? Did he know how to use the Internet to create a toad swarm? Could he imagine a 757 flying into the WTC?

[dsc]

15. back your shit up

I am sick to death of this conspiracy mind addled bull shit. Go search for my post blaming anyone other than Feighan, who was thinking of running in my district in 92, for running this ad. You slur Dean and provide nothing. At least the people saying Gep was behind this have the fact that the people involved have all worked for or given money to Gep. Except the one who worked for Kerry.

[Octafish]

18. Sorry to hurt your feelings, dsc. Don't be so fucking sensitive.

Here's some stuff to consider:

INOCULATION THEORY

During the Korean War, the American public was introduced to a new idea: Brainwashing. This word was invented to explain the unexpected acts of treason that were committed by a few American soldiers who were captured. For the first time in our history a significant number of our captured soldiers willingly cooperated with the enemy. It was a jarring shock to America and it caused people to try and figure out what had happened.

SNIP...

Amazingly, many of our soldiers had great difficulty defending their political and social beliefs. They believed that democracy was the best form of government, but they could not explain why this was true. And their captors merely attacked these simply held beliefs until the soldiers began to doubt their validity. After that the road to "treason" was easy.

The lesson learned translated into important changes for the American military. New soldiers began to receive more extensive political training along with the typical military instruction. No soldier would ever hold naive beliefs or be unable to defend America verbally or militarily.

These ideas translated into one of the most interesting persuasion tools ever developed. The most important question was, "How do you get people to hold a belief more strongly?" It was obvious from the war experience that mere education was not sufficient training to strengthen important beliefs. You can lecture people about the joys of capitalism and they can learn the lecture well enough to pass a true-false test on it, but when the real world mounts a serious attack on the information, many learners will crumble.

SNIP...

The main point of Inoculation Theory is: Attacks make beliefs (and attitudes) stronger. To understand this theory, we need to draw upon a medical analogy.

CONTINUED...

http://www.as.wvu.edu/~sbb/comm221/chapters/inocul.htm

BTW: I don't take it personally when someone's sliming Kerry. Why Dean supporters start to cry when they are asked to consider something they don't agree with is frightening, more than sad.

[HFishbine]

23. It's not personal

it's a rejection of illogical fantastical thinking. One could post this kind of crap about any topic and I'd still repudiate it for its intellectual dishonesty.

Just look at the "example" provided above. What evidence is there that the Dean campaign was behind these ads? Well, there are groups that are interested in brainwashing -- case closed.

Instead of imperical evidence or even of some reasonalbe relationship, the "everything is a conspiracy" mind creates a link by finding similar unanswered questions and then making the completely illogical connection between two situations/events questions concluding that they must be related by the nature of their unkowns. Forget any reasonable comparrisons of what is known, especially if that would tend to destroy the conspiracy theory.

"Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Burning jet fuel cannot melt steel. My fillings pick up radio broadcasts from Area 51."

[dsc]

24. This is what you call evidence

You have got to be kidding. People like you are why we will lose in 2004. And yeah, I take that personally. I take it personally that an Amendment that will relegate me as a 2nd class citizen is being helped to pass by posts like yours. Every smear of every dem running for President makes it less likely that Dem will beat Bush. Every post like yours is handing the keys to the white house and thus the Constitution to that bastard in the WH. So yeah, I take it personally. I have more to lose than you do.

[Octafish]

25. If Ho-Ho can't take the truth, too fucking bad.

Find a candidate to support who has real juevos or ovaries. Dean has neither.

[Guaranteed]

26. Dean and Kucinich are the only

non-ROD's.

Everyone else is on their knees. The day Saddam was captured they were all back to their impotent pre-war positions...ALL of them.

[dsc]

37. It is clear

that you just don't get it. I just hope your polluting posts don't have the effect I fear they will (and I mean to be crystal clear the effect on the nominee no matter whom it may be).

[Octafish]

38. Wrong. Dean would be painted a draft dodger with or without me.

You think this is something Rove doesn't know?

The only people who don't know who might be of concern are Democrats who will be voting in the primaries.

They'd be plenty pissed off discovering Coward Dean isn't all he says he is until being reminded of it by the brave Sir Bushler.

PS: No matter how angry Dean or his supporters get, I won't shut-up about it until he's the nominee. Why? No one wants four more years of Bush less than I do. No one.

[Military Brat]

17. He didn't "dodge"; he has an unfused vertebra

Do you want to be in combat and have the guy beside you fall due to a physical limitation, then be responsible for carrying him around? If he's in a war zone with 120 pounds of military hardware on his back, he's vulnerable and so is everyone with him. If he falls on the ski slope, big deal.

Please don't repeat Republican rumors. There is a genuine potential for incapacitation with an unfused vertebra. Would you be upset if he were 4F because he had extremely flat feet and then went skiing?

Edited to correct classification

[Octafish]

19. If Dean wanted to serve, he would've joined the Navy.

Here's a photo of a real Democrat, one who also suffered from a bad back:



http://www.jfklibrary.org/jfk-manofsea-2.html

[Jacobin]

30. "serve",,,ya don't mean in Vietnam do you?

The people who truly served this country during that dastardly time were those who refused to go or dodged the draft.

If they hadn't we would still be stuck in that hellhole killing Asians for nothing.

[Octafish]

34. Excellent point: Ho-Ho didn't go.

Dean didn’t do EITHER.

Ho-Ho didn’t go.
Ho-Ho didn’t protest.
He just went along to get along.

BTW: Kerry did both. He went and fought bravely, discovering the war was not what the people back home were told it was about. So, he did all he could to oppose it.

[Scott Lee]

35. POOP.

[DFLforever]

40. My ex-husband was exempted from the war with the same back condition

Orthopaedic surgery was rather primitive then so fusion wasn't very practical; he once slipped a disc turning the page of Time magazine and was hospitalized for over a week.

[janx]

41. He didn't dodge the draft. And it was Aspen.

.

[dansolo]

13. The ad uses the premise that Bush is good on foreign policy

That alone is going to make Democratic primary votes reject it.

[chiburb]

20. Dean has "huge eggs" ?

What does that mean?

[maddezmom]

22. spanish slang

for ahem....balls

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

28. So do you doubles..

;)

[ozone_man]

31. The correct response.

He never ceases to surprise me in his ability to get past the Bush/media hype and expose the real issues. That's why I support him, and why I think Bush is terrified of him.

[doubles]

39. I agree, Repugs are terrified of him.....

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scott Lee]

36. This ad has the anal aroma of Dick Gephardt to it

And thankfully, it looks as if at least one big union wants it's money back from the Gephardt endorsement, in protest. You know what would be hilarious? If they pulled their endorsement from the jack off.