Was Hillary Clinton’s Answer in Congo the Right One?

[Metric System]

Here's an interesting new twist. From the New York Times:

The Highlight: "the much-reported idea that the French-speaking student’s question had been mistranslated is incorrect."

***By the time this video made its way to the attention of most viewers in the United States, though, it was packaged in reports, like one from Kirit Radia of ABC News, stating that “apparently the translator made a mistake.” On Tuesday Mr. Radia reported: “A State Department official tells ABC News the student went up to Clinton after the event and told her he was misquoted,” and said that he had actually asked her to share President Obama’s views on Congo’s relations with China.

It always seemed unlikely to The Lede that a translator working for Mrs. Clinton would make such a large error with a question asked in French — or that an African university student would say “Mr. Clinton” when he meant “Mr. Obama” — and my colleague Jeffrey Gettleman reports in Thursday’s New York Times that “further inspection of the audio recording of the event indicated that the translation was fine; the student had indeed said ‘Mr. Clinton.’ ” A second reporter traveling with Mrs. Clinton, a friend of your Lede blogger’s who is a magazine journalist, said the same thing in an e-mail exchange on Wednesday night, that a French-speaking colleague who was in the room confirmed that the student “did ask the question that way: ‘the mind of Mr. From the lips of Mrs.’ ”

Given that it now appears that the question was translated correctly — and that the male student wanted to know not just what Bill Clinton thought of Chinese relations with Congo but also what the former N.B.A. star Dikembe Mutumbo, who was present at the event, thought, too, but expressed no interest in the perspective of America’s female secretary of state — is it possible that Mrs. Clinton has gotten a raw deal from commentators in the United States for her angry reply?

More to the point, while most of the derisive commentary on Mrs. Clinton’s flash of temper contextualized it by noting that her husband had just been lauded for his trip to North Korea, few noted that she was in the middle of a trip to Congo, where the plight of women, many of whom suffered violent sexual abuse during recent fighting, is a major issue.***

More at the link: http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/was-hillary-clintons-answer-in-congo-the-right-one/?hp

Shouldn't the media have fact-checked whether the question was translated correctly before passing this story on to the public?

And THIS passage from the article is something that has been on my mind since first hearing about the incident:

"the male student wanted to know not just what Bill Clinton thought of Chinese relations with Congo but also what the former N.B.A. star Dikembe Mutumbo, who was present at the event, thought, too"

I think that's worth noting.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Who cares & why?

[Metric System]

2. Odd comment, considering the length of the initial thread and the amount of coverage this story has

received in the press. And what's wrong with passing on new (corrected) information?

[SIMPLYB1980]

6. Because some people don't want to eat crow.nt

[wisteria]

48. There you go, thats it entirely. Someone doesn't want to admit they behaved badly and made a mistake

in doing so.

[The_Casual_Observer]

12. Does she need to have a beer with that student to put this to rest?

Honest to god, the press is on vigil for the next dean scream or anything else that has nothing to do with anything.

[Metric System]

13. Point taken.

[madmax]

46. Joy?

Joy Behar, is that you? ;)

[Lord Helmet]

3. Imagine if Joe Biden had climbed up that student's ass.

Can you imagine anybody here excusing Joe Biden on the basis of being tired or upset if he climbed up a student's ass in a Q&A in another country?

Some here don't seek equality for women but instead a separate special status for Clinton that makes her exempt from rules and decorum, and that sets women's rights back decades.

[vaberella]

7. Nope...they'd be like Obama made a mistake or he needs to be put away.

I've said that before. If this had been Obama, Joe Biden, or anyone else part of the administration they would have gotten the same flack. She was out of line and that's the end of it. Moving on. I've just noticed most can't see her actions as out of line for a Secretary of State---diplomacy shot to hell.

[BlooInBloo]

19. Our Top Diplomat was very undiplomatic during a diplomatic mission...

Whether or not she was "justified" in not doing her job, the fact remains that in a pretty minor way, she failed to do her job at that moment.

It's not that big a deal, as long as such lapses in job performance are few and far between. And not at a critical moment.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

68. Precisely. Who cares what the question was - Hillary is our Ambassador to the world ...

She needs to start acting like one.

[noiretextatique]

38. can you imagine the student asking biden what his wife thinks? eom

[Lord Helmet]

63. You don't get it.

You really don't get it. I doubt many here give two shits about what Clinton did in that particular Q&A. My opinion is that she has a job to do as the country's top diplomat and was less than diplomatic when speaking to the foreign students. Diplomacy means not overreacting to a translated question from a student in a third world country, but graciousness was never Clinton's strong suit.

Other than that if I had two shits to give I still wouldn't give even one. And we'd all forget about it if the Parade 'O Excuses wasn't ongoing. But it is and it doesn't serve her or women in general well. It implies that she's not up for the job.

However you want to characterize what happened, embrace it or let it slide.

[noiretextatique]

70. he insulted her

in a country where sexual assault and rape is rampant, where women obviously aren't valued. i totally "get it.'

[Lord Helmet]

71. Do I need to remind you of the power structure? He's a student in a 3rd world country - She's SoS.

She acted inappropriately in her job as Secretary of State.

[noiretextatique]

73. so he gets to insult her because he's a student?

i am sure she would have handled it differently if under other circumstances, but i am glad she put the sexist jerk in his place.

[wisteria]

49. Yes! n/t

[ProSense]

4. What the hell?

Putting Mrs. Clinton’s reply to the student’s question in this context, as words spoken to Congolese students in a forum partly devoted to a discussion of violent discrimination against women in that country, do readers still think that her indignation at this request that she channel her husband as inappropriate as some of her critics have charged? Or could it be seen as a legitimate attempt to make a clear statement that women’s opinions matter, in a part of the world where that perspective may not be often aired?

Yes, it was inappropriate, and no amount of spin is going to change that.

[karynnj]

31. exactly - the question was bad (I didn't know the other named

person was an NBA star - so I thought it was a Congo official at the town hall.), but the reaction in any context was really not good.

She could have made the point of bein the SoS, by politely answering the question then commenting that it was the opinion that she and President Obama had - and that Bill Clinton was not currently in the government. A far better way to make the point that she was the currently more influential member of the family.

The fact is Clinton fans are better off changing the subject to the commendable trip, rather than trying to spin this.

[wisteria]

50. You are entirely correct about this. I think it is called a poor excuse for a huge wrong. n/t

[jenmito]

5. The point is not that the translator was right or wrong. It's how Hillary replied to what she

thought the question was. And I don't think WHAT she said was wrong as was HOW she said it. She should've probably said it in a light-hearted, diplomatic way. It was in the tone.

[ProSense]

8. Seriously. Hillary snapping at some student is supposed to be appropriate because

she was tired, the Congo is a bad place, Condi Rice was SOS, the media sucks and she's been through a lot.

The mole hill to mountain on this issue is the desperate attempt to justify Hillary's reaction.

[jenmito]

9. Exactly...

it's like all the excuses were sexist. The translation is irrelevant to her deMEANor.

[Metric System]

10. Actually my point in posting this is to clarify whether the question was translated correctly. And

I don't disagree with Jenmito's comment: "I don't think WHAT she said was wrong as was HOW she said it. She should've probably said it in a light-hearted, diplomatic way. It was in the tone." And frankly the media hasn't even really been focusing on whether it was appropriate for a Secretary of State to respond in this tone, anyway. The story has been covered from the angle of "is Hillary jealous of Bill?"

[Eric J in MN]

14. She didn't scream. She didn't call him names.

There is no requirement for a diplomat to be all-sweetness.

No one asked Colin Powell to be all-sweetness.

Hillary Clinton's answer was fine.

[ProSense]

16. "Hillary Clinton's answer was fine." If it was fine, why all the excuses? n/t

[Eric J in MN]

18. I watched this video and thought her answer was fine.

People can decide for themselves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uip7OZFGxxY

[jenmito]

17. She snapped and had a terrible attitude towards the student.

Like I said-I don't think WHAT she said was wrong as was HOW she said it.

[Beacool]

11. Metric, what's the point?

Notice who responded to you? That says it all.

But we are the haters.....

:eyes:


:hi:

[jenmito]

15. Did you read what we actually said?

Metric agreed with me. :eyes:

[wisteria]

51. No, you are the ones who can't admit that Clinton isn't perfect and makes mistakes.

And, don't think she should be held accountable for her mistakes. It doesn't matter how it is spun, I don't think her behavior was professional for our SOS. I would expect better of someone in that position.

[Phx_Dem]

20. I don't see how anyone could think the manner in which she

responded was appropriate. She was talking to an African student who deserved a more respectful, or at least polite, answer. Even if he/she asked about her husband, it didn't warrant the snotty resopnse he received. She looked very tired so I can only assume she was just tired or having a bad day, but that is no excuse.

[jsmirman]

21. I'm not usually first in line to defend Hillary

and I had not realized the question came from a student, but in light of the "Bill goes to North Korea and solves the hostage crisis" situation, and also just in light of *her* being the Secretary of State, it sure seemed like a rude question.

I'm sure she could have answered more tactfully, but I was more amused than horrified by her answer.

I also don't think it's the worst thing for other countries to recognize she is not to be trifled with.

This is just my take on it, and I guess I share it because I'm surprised to see myself on the Hillary side of any equation.

[Metric System]

22. I feel the need to respond to a snarky comment upthread that "Hillary snapping at some student is

supposed to be appropriate because...the Congo is a bad place." I don't think that's the point of the article at all. As I noted elsewhere in this thread, the media hasn't even really been focusing on whether it was appropriate for a Secretary of State to respond in this tone. The story has been covered from the angle of "is Hillary jealous of Bill?" And THAT aspect of the story is what the author is responding to when he writes:

"while most of the derisive commentary on Mrs. Clinton’s flash of temper contextualized it by noting that her husband had just been lauded for his trip to North Korea, few noted that she was in the middle of a trip to Congo, where the plight of women, many of whom suffered violent sexual abuse during recent fighting, is a major issue."

That isn't meant as an excuse for the tone of Hillary's response. Rather, it's a response to the shoddy way the media has covered this story (ie, IS HILLARY JEALOUS?).

[vaberella]

26. Actually I've been watching MSNBC on this topic and it's been about her attitude.

Others have talked about her presence on a talk about the role of women----but I've heard nothing about it being about her jealous of BC. I'm sure there are people that have said that, but so far I spent most of the day on MSNBC and nada, the discussion is primarily centered around her attitude.

[Metric System]

27. Did they talk at all about the question and how it was posed to her husband and the basketbal/guide

up on stage with her, but not to her? I think that's worthy of discussion along with whether the tone of her response was appropriate. I wouldn't be shocked if the pundits on MSNBC didn't explore that aspect of the story (especially now that we know the question WAS NOT mistranslated). I wouldn't have an issue with the question if she was asked President Obama's view since she is his representative after all, and he is her boss. But asking what her HUSBAND thought without asking for her opinion? Ugh.

[karynnj]

32. I listened to a lot of the coverage and few mentioned NK

I also saw most spinning it as "honest" and "human", though I think you can be just as "honest" and "human" and stay polite. The problem as others said was the tone - that likely translates even to people not understanding English.

The fact is that a diplomat should be able to deal with other cultures - here, it is very possible that the man was very sexist and did not think a woman could be as important as she really is. Simply answering the question, then explaining her position with Obama might have challenged his view of women.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. I like it when people call out sexist attitudes in sexist cultures

any and every time.

[IndianaGreen]

24. I think Hillary has done a great job in Africa!

Facing down some of the most oppressive regimes in the region, and standing firm against human rights abuses including rape. Pathetic how the MSM has focused on such a tiny portion of Hillary's trip in order to score GAWD-knows-what with their idiotic audiences.

Hillary has done fine in Africa and we should be proud of our Secretary of State.

[Karenina]

69. IG, you and I both know how Amis tend to be a bit isolated

from the buzz in the world-at-large ;-) So let me ask you how many women in TROTW you think just might be :spray::rofl: whoopin' ana hollerin', "YOU.GO.GIRL!!!"

[nonsequitur]

25. It's not a big deal. Ignore it. She was tired.

.

[wisteria]

52. I disagree, it is a big deal. She is our top diplomat around the world.

Maybe she isn't right for this position.

[Jakes Progress]

28. The problem with this is exactly

what Judith Warner writes about here.

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/12/hillary-fights-a-tide-of-trivialization/?ref=opinion

Overruling the security fears of her aides, she traveled to eastern Congo, where hundreds of thousands of women have been raped over the past decade. She visited a refugee camp and met with one woman who was gang-raped while eight months pregnant; she heard of another who’d been sexually assaulted with a rifle. She was told of babies cut from their mothers’ bodies with razors. She spoke of “evil in its basest form.” She promised $17 million to fight sexual violence.

And back home, all anyone could talk about was Bill.

[Beacool]

30. Oh, that doesn't count for much in the media and around here.

It's not the first time, nor probably the last time, that Hillary has put aside her personal safety to go to places where most American officials wouldn't dream of going. She did the same as first lady.

Let's just continue to focus on whether she's jealous of Bill, whether Obama has marginalized her and whether the humidity and bad hair day added to her pissy mood.

Whatever.......

:eyes:

[wisteria]

53. None of what you say excuses her response. She is not the first SOS to see and hear about such

horror and devastation.

[Jakes Progress]

56. I guess that uppity woman

should just be quiet.

There is no need for an excuse for her response. The only people who would take offense would be the professional Clintonphopes.

Did you read the story. Have you heard anything on the news about her trip and why she put that on her itenerary and how the groups that are working on this welcomed her? Nah. Who cares. It was Clinton in the news and a chance for the frat club to snark. Why should you care about what happens to people that far away, let alone women? Your response speaks clearly of your agenda.

And you are wrong. No other SOS has attempted to address this issue.

Peddle it elsewhere.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

29. I think the questioner could be a sexist asshole.

I think SOS Clinton could have answered more wisely.


I think there are some shit-stirrers on this thread who would take up for Pres Obama or VP Biden if they had made a similar faux pas.

[karynnj]

33. Actually -

I suspect that I would stand up for Biden because almost everyone would have over reacted in the negative - calling into question his intelligence and ability. Now, if you used search, I was not a big Biden fan. I was unimpressed by him as chair of SFRC - actually thinking that Lugar was better, though agreeing more on issues with Biden. However, in essense I would be saying the same thing I did on HRC - that the words and demeanor were not good, but the trip was overall very important and commendable. (All my comments actually end up near your 2 line summary.)

I suspect I would NOT stand up for Obama, who I like, because there would be many trying to explain why the faux pas was not a faux pas. I have been willing to say he was wrong, when he was.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

57. You are not one of the posters I was talking about.

I agree that SOS Clinton should have responded better, even though it appears the guy was a sexist asshole.

We all have our bad days.

[noiretextatique]

40. i agree

i think the questioner is a sexist asshole, and i think clinton could have responded better. still, i have no problem with her response, since it was a sexist question.

[DevonRex]

34. It wasn't Hillary's finest moment. But I will cut her some slack because

she's a dem, she's a woman, and she's SoS.

Mostly I think this should just go away now.

[Fire1]

35. Uh - No. n/t

[MasonJar]

36. Mrs. Clinton went to a dangerous country to help the women and children

there and DUers are still talking about this inconsequential question. Way to go MSM. Not only did you not get the point across that these Congolese need help, you even got DUers to continue criticizing the woman who risked her life to go there and help.

[IndianaGreen]

39. I totally agree with you, MasonJar (see my earlier post)

I may disagree with our Latin America policies, and our foolish and reckless surge in Afghanistan, but I applaud Hillary's mission to Africa and her talking about human rights to the face of the despots there.

[ProSense]

41. It always cracks me up when people who constantly slam Obama

posing from the far left rise to defend Hillary over nonsensical BS.

So utterly transparent.

[Metric System]

43. I'm the OP and I haven't slammed the President.

[ProSense]

45. It wasn't a response to you. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

44. What is transparent is the MSM's role in what was an insignificant part of trip

Hillary speaking out against rape as a weapon of war was barely mentioned here.

[wisteria]

54. That is part of her job. She visited as a representative of the US.

All the pain and suffering in the Congo really has no bearing on how she conducted herself during this Q&A session. She is suppose to behave professionally and remember she represents our President and our country.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. You honestly believe Hillary Clinton risked her life to go there?

You think she'd have gone if she were in any danger?

Wow.

[noiretextatique]

37. she responded appropriately, imho

to a sexist asshole.

[Canuckistanian]

42. After scanning this thread, I can't believe there's a problem here

A tempest in a teapot.

Is someone really trying to extrapolate a major problem here?

[wisteria]

47. SOS Clinton was wrong. It doesn't make any difference what may or may not have been translated.

You don't answer a question like she did- even if you didn't like it. As SOS she should have known better. And, I am tired seeing the blame being directed at the student. I find it difficult to believe he intentionally meant to insult Clinton. Oh, and as SOS, she represents the opinions of our president. Her personal opinions are irrelevant in public.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

58. "I find it difficult to believe he intentionally meant to insult Clinton"

what a crock of shit.

[palindrome]

55. Another issue:

I like to see the 'off the cuff' Hillary... She isn't taking any shit. Other Dems would be doing well to take notice on how this is done: you simply look someone in the eye and tell them the truth. She's out there fighting against rape as a weapon of war, and what do Americans discuss? The answer to some stupid, insulting question.

On another note: I went on a trip as a GS-13 contractor through many third world countries, including Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan and Djibouti, to perform on a USO tour. Besides the injections of every vaccine from Tetanus (sp?) to Yellow Fever, there are anti-malaria pills that you must take. I was on a pill called Melfloquine to start, and although I didn't become suicidal, I soon had enough emotional anxiety for the Army medic to switch me to something else called doxycycline (or a similar name). To top that off, they tried to put me on Xanax and Paxil for the rest of the trip! I didn't take the Paxil, of course... but what were they doing giving it to a civilian in the first place?

I'm not saying she has the same symptoms I had. My point is that no one fully understands Hillary's situation except for herself. I think she's doing a good job! It's easier for people to ignore, mitigate and, quite frankly, trivialize the good she's doing if the central topic of all things Hillary is her tone, demeanor, and SHOES.

[saltpoint]

59. Maybe she'll go on to do better in the future.

This certainly was not her best moment.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

60. Maybe she'll learn from Biden's and Obama's mistakes. They've certainly had enough embarrassing

moments!

[saltpoint]

61. Turns out, though, Obama defeated HClinton for the nomination.

Her own extremely poorly-run campaign doomed her right from the start.

As I indicated above, I hope she does better in the future.

[StevieM]

66. Wow...you really relish the old mantra that history is written by the winners, don't you?

Hillary ran a great campaign for 10 months. She didn't start out with the lead that Gore had over Bradley or Bush had over the GOP field in 2000. She was in the mid to low 30s while Obama and Edwards were in the high teens. And historically those leads narrow over the summer. Hillary held her lead and then she built on it. Then things happened which were beyond her control: a junior staffer in Iowa asked someone to ask HRC a question at a town hall and the media turned it into Watergate; Billy Shaheen's comments; and Hillary's staff, fed up with the claim that she's always been running for president pointed out that Obama wrote something in Kindergarten about running and the media created "the Kindergarten attack."

Your claim of an "extremely poorly run campaign" is based soley on the false assertion that because Bill was once president Hillary must have been a shoe-in, that she was a de-facto incumbent. The polling always contradicted that assertion--in fact, the heightened expectations was one more burden that she carried. Hillary's critics love to deliver that narrative, as if it is indisputable fact. But it's not based on a substantive evaluation made in comparison to other campaigns in history--just the perverse mantra that history is written by the winners.

For the record, I thought Hillary ran a great campaign to have come back the way she did in New Hampshire. And there were many other examples too. Not every candidate who runs for president can win. The only basis for distinguishing Hillary is 1) the claim that she was a virtual incumbent (which was untrue) and 2) the fact that she ran such an amazing race for 10 months, thereby earning herself the lead which was later used to belittle her by acting like she inherited it.

Hillary may never be president, but if not then she will surely be the greatest president we never had IMO. And supporting Hillary Clinton's magnificent campaign for president was the proudest experience of my life.

Steve

[saltpoint]

67. I believe History is written by the winners, with very few exceptions,

unless you can demonstrate otherwise.

That said, Hillary Clinton led public polling handsomely for at least one year prior to the final two weeks leading to the Iowa caucus.

She finished third. "Beyond her control" really isn't persuasive. Candidates either are or are not in control of their own campaigns. The harsh words between HClinton and her staff following the Iowa caucus are a matter of record. 'I find this very instructive,' she snapped at them.

She won New Hampshire, though narrowly, and was destroyed in South Carolina.

Her campaign was extremely poorly run, with its own captains frequently at war with each other.

[Beacool]

72. Oh please..............

Here we go again with rehashing the primaries. Hillary won most primaries from March through June and won them by wide margins (all except IN). Obama won his pledge delegate advantage through the handful of people who voted in the caucus states.

Yes, Obama won the nomination, but he did so by a hair. Not precisely by a landslide as some here seem to think.

:eyes:

[palindrome]

77. What do you think Hillary would do with a supermajority?

:D

[Beacool]

74. Hi, Steve!!!

It's nice to see you around.

:pals:

[palindrome]

75. Ain't that the truth.

The only thing Hillary did wrong was hire Mark Penn.

[Beacool]

64. In Africa this issue was a minor one.

Preaching reform, Clinton wins African hearts

By DONNA BRYSON, Associated Press Writer

Thursday, August 13, 2009

In Liberia, Hillary Clinton brought out the crowds despite torrential rain. In Congo, she came away deeply shaken from a meeting with rape victims. Kenya's prime minister said Africa didn't need lectures from the West about democracy, but Africa got one anyway.

At home, the U.S. secretary of state's visit may have been overshadowed by the aftermath of her husband's mission to North Korea to bring home two imprisoned U.S. journalists. But on her seven-nation Africa tour, ending Friday with a stopover in the West African island republic of Cape Verde, she made one splash after another.

Coupled with Barack Obama's visit last month, the two trips to Africa were the earliest into an administration by any secretary of state or president, underlining Washington's pledges to pay more attention to the continent.

In the U.S., the headline-making moment of the trip was her testy response to a question about Bill Clinton. But in Africa, it quickly became a footnote. What people wanted to hear was support for democracy, clean government and ending its many civil wars.

Clinton's ambitious itinerary resembled those of China's foreign minister, who makes extensive annual tours of his country's allies on the continent. But where China tends to sidestep the issues of corruption democracy, Clinton confronted them head-on.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/13/international/i142509D60.DTL

[TheKentuckian]

65. I'm tired of Democrats having to be PERFECT

She got edgy after a tough slog and having to put up with a lot of cavemanish crap, including an offer to buy Chelsea. The question AS SHE GOT IT was stupid and insulting to any independent person and she got a little terse. People act like she had a rage-o-holic screamfest and told the world to kiss her ass.

Meanwhile, The Squatter, RayGun, and all their assholes (especially batshit Darth) spoke and saber rattled at will with little to no comment.

Yeah, I wish she bridled her tongue better and stood above the garbage but do I care or think less of her handling her job? FUCK NO. As fas as I'm concerned the raping bastards have no standing and should have been given what for in advance of her little snarl.

[palindrome]

76. Not to mention

She's on anti malaria pills.