I missed the chapter in the Art of War by Sun Tzu

[grassfed]

that advises conceding to your foe in the heat of battle that you will fold for less. Thanks for the strategy lesson John.

STEPHANOPOULOS: ... and the votes don't seem to be there.

KERRY: Let me just finish. Let me finish. He (Ted Kennedy) would fight for it, and he would do everything in his power to get it, just like he did for the minimum wage or like he did for children's health care, et cetera. But if he didn't see the ability to be able to get it done, he would not throw the baby out with the bathwater. He would not say no to anything because we have to reduce the cost. We have to make these changes. And he would find the best way forward.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So he wouldn't agree with those like Howard Dean who say it's not worth doing if you don't have the public health insurance option?

KERRY: I think there is an enormous amount, George -- oh, here is what Teddy would do. He would say, I'm going to fight the fight, and if and when we get to the point that we can't get there, we'll see whether or not we can do enough to make good happen out of this.

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/Politics/Story?id=8443218&page=2

[3waygeek]

1. You'd think he'd learned that lesson in 2004 n/t

[grassfed]

2. I particularly like buckling to the ravings of Sarah Palin

Now she is certainly a fierce and formidable opponent. Death Panels? Oh shit, no! Not even a Public Option, we swear Madam Palin! Please don't post mean things on your facebook page!



:sarcasm:

[Mass]

25. WTF are you talking about?\nt

[ProSense]

3. I hear NBC is hiring.

Jenna Bush would love your perspective.

[grassfed]

6. can't argue with a

[ProSense]

11. I can see why you're having trouble comprehending a simple statement. n/t

[cadmium]

4. You are conflating two different concepts

Kerry isnt advocating here - he is answering a question about what he thinks Ted would have done. Given that he has been close to Ted for decades and given that Ted did eventually go along with compromise on Mass Health plan I am not sure what you are mad about. He wasnt asked about what health plan he supported - he was asked what he thought Ted would do. Kerry is not a major player in the health care debate, but he is as knowledgeable as anyone living re: what Ted would do.

He could have lied and said that Kennedy would give up if he didnt get full public option, he could have dodged the question, or he could do what he did which is tell the truth.

[grassfed]

5. Why is Kerry tipping the Democrats hand on health care on natl tv?

If the strategy is to appear reasonable and open minded in the face of Republican intransigence, a very very dim possibility, and then use that as cover to ram a Public Option through reconciliation, ok. But it feels like we're being eased into the reality of a grotesque corp friendly deal.

[cadmium]

8. He is answering a question regarding

what Ted would have done. You sound like you are committed to turning this interview into a debate on health care, which it was not. Twisting the appraisal of Sen Kennedy's approach, from someone so close to him like Sen Kerry, to fit the AP's appetite for controversy does public option advocacy no favors.

[grassfed]

13. it would be helpful to see some message unanimity, discipline.

For a flashback on effective (if evil) messaging check out this John Stewart clip, toward the end:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-august-17-2009/heal-or-no-heal---medicine-brawl

Rahm seems slippery with Pharma, Obama detatched, overly pragamatic... time will tell.

[Mass]

22. Where is your thread attacking Landrieu who wants to dump a public option without a fight,.

Or is your goal to attack those Dems who want a public option? I am starting to wonder?

[blm]

46. Do you have a different answer about HOW Kennedy would proceed based on past dealmaking by Kennedy

like the SCHIPS bill, for example?

Give us YOUR answer based on the TRUTH about how Kennedy would proceed. Use the reality of the situation - you're on TV and you're asked the question about what someone else would do if they were there based on the way they conducted negotiations on legislation in the past.

You would be welcome, of course, to pretend you didn't hear the question, or you can lie and claim you know Kennedy would proceed exactly as you hope.

[lunatica]

7. I don't dislike Kerry but with friends like that who needs enemies

What does he think the Republicans are going to hear when he says that. I know what they'll say. We here at DU know what they'll say. Get ready for a blitz of how Kennedy would have preferred bipartisanship now. Expect Orrin Hatch to tell us how Teddy told him in his last conversation that he wanted a bipartisan compromise

[cadmium]

9. They are going to say that anyway

If Kerry lied and said Ted would have taken his ball and gone home Repubs would call him on that and if Kerry avoided the question repubs would call him on that. This was a show about Sen Kennedy less than a week after this death not a debate on the public option. Kerry knew Ted well and did the right thing by answering honestly. Trashing him for that is really small and disrespectful to Ted Kennedy.

BTW I dont think you are really trashing him except in the subject line -- a lot of people are openly hostile and that is what I am reacting to mostly.

[lunatica]

19. Who said Kerry had to lie?

If anyone should know how to talk the doublespeak of political jargon it should be Kerry. He could have left out that 'compromise' part altogether and still be telling the truth.

Like I said, I don't dislike Kerry, but he more than anyone should know how they can destroy something. They did it to him with the Swiftboat lies.

[cadmium]

24. I think that is isnt realyl a consideration less than a week after

they put his friend in the ground

[ProSense]

10. "What does he think the Republicans are going to hear when he says that. "

Good grief. Are you all so media whipped that a statement of fact that has nothing remotely to do with anything but a true assessment of Kennedy causes you to twist and distort out of fear of Republicans.

[lunatica]

18. You don't get the world of politics do you?

They will quote Kerry saying he said that Kennedy wanted compromise. Fear has nothing to do with it. Or do you think Kerry handled the lies they said about him when he ran for President well? He still doesn't get that they twist what he does and says every time it's to their convenience. But obviously you know better.

Truth is a mere commodity in the political world.

[ProSense]

20. "They will quote Kerry saying he said that Kennedy wanted compromise." Now,

what does that have to do with you buying into and promoting their spin?

Maybe you don't get reality: They will say anything regardless of what is said.

It is lame and weak to expect Democrats to not speak the truth because you're afraid of how the media and RW will spin it.

The challenge is not to capitulate to media spin, it is to fight it.

[lunatica]

26. Kerry should be afraid of them. They frigging destroyed his goals to be

President forever. They did the same thing to Howard Dean. What's not to be afraid of? The truth is the truth and they destroy people. Going around wagging your superior finger in our faces for knowing what they're like and the lies and spin they use and calling us out as fearful cowards is just as bad as what they do.

[ProSense]

29. No he shouldn't, but you continue being afraid of them.

If anything, Kerry's efforts campaigning for Democrats in recent elections and as one of Obama's top surrogates should be a sign to you that the Republicans are not all powerful, as you seem to believe they are.

You can continue fearing them, just don't expect anyone else to.

[Mass]

23. No need for them to distort what Kerry said (in passing, he said it was not time for a compromise)

They have started to say that since Kennedy died and some Dems have said the same thing. All Kerry said is how the Senate works, and only idiots do not realize that.

[lunatica]

28. My point exactly

It was idiots who destroyed his Presidential aspirations by swiftboating him. He made the mistake of not responding to such idiocy because he had a purple heart. Ignoring them because they're idiots went a very long way towards destroying is campaign.

But we should just ignore them right? After all they're only idiots. Just like that idiot George Bush who has us in two wars and in an economy that's broken. Yeah, lets just ignore them.

[ProSense]

33. "He made the mistake of not responding to such idiocy" He responded, but a lot of Democrats did

exactly what you and the others are doing now: countering his efforts by supporting the media spin.

[PurityOfEssence]

12. The worst of both worlds: a stuffy northeastern intellectual, and not very smart

What a classic mistake we made in '04. Many of us ranted on and warned about it, but the Democratic Party has a legendary group genius for slobbering idiocy.

[ProSense]

14. What incoherent BS.

"a stuffy northeastern intellectual, and not very smart"

Should have nominated you. Good grief.

:rofl:

[PurityOfEssence]

42. Allow me to explain

I was presuming some reading ability here.

It is a death sentence in American politics to be considered an intellectual. It is doubly damning to be one from the northeast. The saving grace is that at least intellectuals are often rather intelligent, although many of them merely strut as if they are out of inferiority compensation.

Kerry comes off like a stuffy intellectual and takes fire for that. The sad part is that he's not very bright, and it shows. That's the worst of both worlds.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE VERY BRIGHT TO BE AN INTELLECTUAL. Many professors, doctors, attorneys, politicians AREN'T REALLY THAT SMART, and many of them crave the credentials to hide that truth. They NEED to be automatically considered intelligent because of their nagging fear of mediocrity or worse. Think Clarence Thomas. People often live lives of elaborate compensation.

There's no contradiction here; there's an obvious and simplistic observation, but even that seems to be beyond some people.

[ProSense]

47. "It is a death sentence in American politics to be considered an intellectual." Yes, if you're in

the Party of Morons. Obama is an intellectual, and he's President.

"It is doubly damning to be one from the northeast."

Where are your facts: Did you see the national tribute to Senator Kennedy? Have you noticed how many people across the country admire the Kennedy family?

"Kerry comes off like a stuffy intellectual and takes fire for that."

Despite the repetitive nonsense, every instance that Kerry appears to give a speech proves you wrong. Whether it was his speech endorsing of Obama, his speech at the 2008 Democratic Convention or his tribute to Senator Kennedy, or while campaigning around the country during and since the 2004 election, your words bear no relation to reality.


"The sad part is that he's not very bright, and it shows."

Presuming there is some reading ability and an ounce of integrity here, I disagree.

[PurityOfEssence]

56. Fine. Keep your head in the sand.

They played the egghead card against Kerry, Gore, Dukakis and countless other candidates and did it very well. America has a grand old tradition of being anti-intellectual. Obama carefully avoided such characterization, crafting a ultra-relaxed and folksy charm, which has authentic underpinnings in his character. Such a persona traditionally meets with great acceptance in this country.

To his credit, when asked in a debate about how he intended to dispel the single most agreed-upon image weakness of being BORING, he said "Just wait for my new video 'Kerry goes wild'". Even HE has more of a sense of his achilles' heel than you do. It was the overriding and consistent typificaton of him at the time, and it still stands.

Intellectualism is only tangentially related to intelligence, and many who ache constantly to have others acknowledge their superior circuitry are simply not quite up to snuff.

The sheer sloppiness of your "arguing" is ridiculous. Somehow YOUR opinion of the fine-sounding oration negates an observation that Kerry consistently takes heat for being a stuffy intellectual. He does. It's a constant refrain. He takes it from the right, left and center.

This is a pointless discourse.

[grassfed]

15. These freaks coordinate their hateful message and stick to it. Period.

Why can't the Democrats? We have economics, national security and above all morality on our side - all are affected by the Health Care crisis. Palin scrawls 'Death Panels' on facebook for godsake and the Democrats get all 'wee wee'd out,' falling all over themselves, sputtering out sweaty nervous denials. Liberals should give no quarter on the morality and necessity of Health Care Reform. All Americans know firsthand that the Insurance companies ARE death panels. The Democrats only need to point it out CLEARLY, unless of course their hands are tied by backroom deals (Rahm).

[ProSense]

16. Because unlike you, the vast majority of Democrats don't admire freaks? n/t

[grassfed]

17. i despise them

thank you for sharing

[ProSense]

21. "Why can't the Democrats?" No you admire them and want Democrats to be just like them. n/t

[LittleBlue]

27. No wonder this guy couldn't beat Bush

Hard to beat anyone by bending over and asking for more.

Talk like this is simply red meat for the neoCONs.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blm]

43. How would YOU answer the question based on what YOU know about Kennedy's history of negotiating

on legislation? You know...like on SCHIPS. How did SCHIPS turn out exactly the way it did when the original Kennedy-Kerry bill was so much more comprehensive than the Kennedy-Hatch product?

[TayTay]

30. Bravo Senator Kerry.

He spoke the truth here.

Teddy would have fought like hell, then fought harder and then tried like hell to get the best bill possible.

Gee, what else would he have done?

[paulk]

34. he could have realized that he's now the senior Senator from MA

and his words carry weight.

The Sunday morning talk shows are often used to float trial balloons; it's not unreasonable to see Kerry's words on compromise as such.

Perhaps he was just telling the truth about how Kennedy would have proceeded, still, he has to understand that the truth is not always the most politic way to go about things...

[ProSense]

36. He should realize that a bunch of ignorant Democrats were going to distort his word?

We know the MSM's excuse, but what about this:

"he could have realized that he's now the senior Senator from MA and his words carry weight...Perhaps he was just telling the truth about how Kennedy would have proceeded, still, he has to understand that the truth is not always the most politic way to go about things..."

The problem with that nonsensical comment is that truth should never become a casualty because the RW will distort it. Second, what did Kerry say that remotely resembles the spin being applied to his comment?

Go ahead, dissect it and state what exactly he should have been careful about:

KERRY: Let me just finish. Let me finish. He would fight for it, and he would do everything in his power to get it, just like he did for the minimum wage or like he did for children's health care, et cetera. But if he didn't see the ability to be able to get it done, he would not throw the baby out with the bathwater. He would not say no to anything because we have to reduce the cost. We have to make these changes. And he would find the best way forward.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So he wouldn't agree with those like Howard Dean who say it's not worth doing if you don't have the public health insurance option?

KERRY: I think there is an enormous amount, George -- oh, here is what Teddy would do. He would say, I'm going to fight the fight, and if and when we get to the point that we can't get there, we'll see whether or not we can do enough to make good happen out of this.

And you can't make that measurement today. We have to go down that road.

[paulk]

37. did you change your name again?

I'm not talking to you.

[blm]

45. Based on what we know about Kennedy, how would YOU answer a question about how Kennedy would

proceed?

[paulk]

50. I would have stonewalled Steph.

I would have told him that I couldn't speak for Kennedy. Even if I did know what he would have done - being aware - as I mentioned above, that whatever I said would be twisted into something else, as has happened to Kerry before. Also I would be more aware that I was now the senior Senator from the most liberal state in the union, and that my words would be dissected by the pundits for a hint of what is going on behind the scenes. Especially, as I posted upthread, in light of what the majority leader had to say about the public option just a few days ago.

I don't think it's out of bounds to question Kerry's judgement here - I also don't think it's as big a deal as some of those questioners have made it, but - I also think the reaction to those questioners by many of Kerry's supporters here has been over the top.

[ProSense]

51. "I would have stonewalled Steph...being aware...that whatever I said would be twisted" Hilarious

I could see the media spin now: Kerry waffles, and right behind them you and the others who are busy trying to distort Kerry's words, declaring him a waffler.

Seriously, your response is hilarious.

[paulk]

54. changed your name yet again, huh?

you just can't keep your nose out of other people's conversations, can you?

[blm]

60. If Kerry had said something wrong there would be no need to distort what he said, omit phrases

to misdirect his point, etc... would there?

You may think it's a grand idea to let liars and distorters have their way on this, but, some of us don't.

[paulk]

64. I don't think his words are being distorted

I have always defended Kerry when I thought he was being unfairly attacked.

I don't think that's the case here.

Perhaps I don't put my heroes as high up on a pedestal as "some".

[grassfed]

35. Ted would not have lead the charge with the words

"This is the cause of my life -- New hope that we will break the old gridlock and guarantee that every American -- north, south, east, west, young, old -- will have decent, quality healthcare as a fundamental right and not a privilege... but if opposition is too scary we're ready to compromise."

[depakid]

38. Kerry is the very LAST person one should listen to on the subject of fighting back

[LittleBlue]

39. Agreed. After the crap he pulled in '04, nobody should ever take his opinion seriously.

Especially concerning strategy, of all things.

[depakid]

40. Hard to forget, as there was so much on the line

Bush to Kerry: "If you knew then what you know now would you have voted for the Iraq War Resolution"

Paraphrased by on NPR:

Would you vote 'yes' again on that resolution if you knew then what you know now and, most particularly, the failure so far to find weapons of mass destruction.

Kerry:

That's a question that just doesn't even fit in the context of where we are today. We have to vote where we vote. My vote was the correct vote: for the president of the United States to have a threat of force to hold Saddam Hussein accountable to the very agreement he signed. But we all had a right as Americans to expect that the president of the United States would use that authority properly. He did not, in my judgment. He did not do the hard work of diplomacy. He did not make real the meaning of the words 'last resort.' He didn't build the kind of international coalition they had talked about and promised. They didn't do the work of putting America in the strongest position possible in building the consent and legitimacy of their effort. And they certainly didn't do what I and others warned them to do, which was make certain that you have a plan for winning the peace if indeed you do this because that's the difficulty, not winning the war. So it was the correct thing to do to protect the security of the United States to go to the U.N., but we should have had a smarter, more effective carrying out of diplomacy in order to put America in a stronger position.

Talk about EPIC FAIL

[Jennicut]

41. Yes, lets throw another Dem who is on our side under the bus

because he does not follow word for word what we say he should do.
Its like we are refighting the 2004 primaries here or something.

[blm]

44. I missed the part where YOU have a different answer to 'What would Kennedy do?'

You can make shit up, of course, and claim he'd never give in or compromise no matter what....and, you can pretend you didn't hear the question.

How WOULD you answer the question HONESTLY, grassfed, based on everything you KNOW about Kennedy's history of passing legislation?

[grassfed]

52. To achieve Universal Health Care, the cause of Ted's life,

and were I, like Kerry, Ted's personal and political confidante appearing on a national television program at the height of an intense political battle, I would have said, "Ted would fight for Universal Health Care with everything he's got." End of statement.
I would not go on to theorize about what scraps Ted might accept in the face of overwhelming opposition... cravenly cloaking the compromised bill in Ted's reputation. Obviously Kennedy would try and get whatever he could, but he would not tip his hand and state publicly that he would be willing to surrender the centerpiece of his plan. Unless, as I believe, the compromise is a fait accompli and Kerry is softening up the public for the corporate designed health care bill that has already been signed and sealed (see Rahm/Pharma). The bill will have many important features but they will not include a public option, negotiable drug prices and many other Kennedy proposals, and may include a mandate for PRIVATE health insurance providing a captive population of millions to the insurance companies.

[ProSense]

53. "tip his hand and state publicly that he would be willing to surrender the centerpiece of his plan."

Where does it say that in Kerry's statement, be specific?


And you posted previously that people should brace themselves because the Dems are planning to drop the public option. You and so many others apparently know this without any doubt so, even if Kerry had said what you claimed, how would that be tipping the Democrats' hand?

[grassfed]

55. have you ever applied for a loan

or played chess?

[blm]

57. We already know Ted's style and Kerry described it accurately. You don't like the truth of Kerry's

words, that Kennedy would fight like hell for the best bill they could pass that would do the most good.

YOU forget that Kennedy had beat himself up for years for NOT passing a compromise with Nixon on universal healthcare for political reasons. Kennedy would NOT let a healthcare bill die because of a refusal to compromise. Sorry you don't WANT to understand that.

[Honeycombe8]

69. That's not the main point, as I see it. The main point is NOT joining the Repubs in

their mass agreement that "Kennedy would compromise."

I've seen it all over the talk shows. The Republican mantra right now is...Kennedy would compromise Kennedy would compromise Kennedy would compromise Kennedy would compromise.

We don't need Democrats helping them along. Even if that's what Kerry thinks Kennedy would do, it's bizarre and not helpful for him to say so at this delicate stage.

Now we have a group of people...all Republicans and one Democrat...who are stating Kennedy would compromise Kennedy would compromise Kennedy would compromise.

Not helpful. That's the main point, I think. He should've read a book called, "The Art of Dodging the Question" rather than "The Art of War."

The correct answer? I don't presume to know, but something like, "Look, the country has just gone through the terrible loss of Sen. Kennedy, and the funeral was just yesterday. I know people are discussing this critical issue a lot right now, and there's a lot of speculation going on about what the Senator would and would not do. I certainly had discussions with him about it. But I think it's too soon for me to be opining about what my friend would've done. I didn't give it a lot of thought previously, since I was of course hoping for a better outcome. We have at least a little time to let the country recover a bit from the loss before we delve into speculating about his future actions would have been."

[treestar]

48. A legislature is not a war zone

[ProSense]

49. That's definitely one of the most hilarious aspects of the OP, but beyond that

correlating the OP's frame on Kerry's statement to "tipping" the Democrats' hand is really funny. Even if Kerry had flat out said Kennedy would have compromised on the public option, on what planet would that have been tipping the Democrats' hand?

The more bizarre aspect is that this is coming from people who strongly believe the Democrats are going to sellout on the public option.

It's impossible to determine who is more disingenuous, the people doing the framing or those agreeing with them.

[Honeycombe8]

70. Sure it is. As to particular issues. The enemy? The ones who DON'T want reform.

The war? Over whether there will be health care reform, and if so, what will be in the bill.

[Forkboy]

58. My only question is; Have you really read The Art of War?

:)

[SIMPLYB1980]

59. "All warfare is based on deception."

"Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near."

"Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him."

Sun Tzu

[Forkboy]

61. This is why I asked if the OP had actually read the book.

I doubt he has.

[SIMPLYB1980]

62. I don't think he has either.

I was wondering if I would get a response from him but maybe his not responding is part of his "deception".:shrug:

http://www.amazon.com/Sun-Tzu-Art-History-Warfare/dp/081331951X

[grassfed]

63. “Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.”

[Honeycombe8]

65. How disappointing that Kerry said that. Even if he thinks that, why would he say it?

Teddy's barely in the grave, and Kerry is on national TV stating that Ted would've compromised?

That is the Republican mantra right now. Hatch has said it. McCain has said it. Other Repubs have said it. And now Kerry has joined them.

I guess this is partly why Kerry lost. You've gotta know when to show your cards....and when not to. Even if you think it, you don't have to join the enemy's chorus and help them.

Is he that anxious to take the realm of being the Sr. Senator from Mass.? Is he that anxious to try to become the next lion? (as if that could happen)

[ProSense]

66. Why don't you read the whole quote and explain what is wrong with what Kerry said:

KERRY: I think there is an enormous amount, George -- oh, here is what Teddy would do. He would say, I'm going to fight the fight, and if and when we get to the point that we can't get there, we'll see whether or not we can do enough to make good happen out of this.

And you can't make that measurement today. We have to go down that road.

Instead of friggin insulting Kerry based on some contrived OP, read the full context of the post.

Teddy's barely in the grave, and Kerry is on national TV stating that Ted would've compromised?

That is the Republican mantra right now. Hatch has said it. McCain has said it. Other Repubs have said it. And now Kerry has joined them.

I guess this is partly why Kerry lost. You've gotta know when to show your cards....and when not to. Even if you think it, you don't have to join the enemy's chorus and help them.

Is he that anxious to take the realm of being the Sr. Senator from Mass.? Is he that anxious to try to become the next lion? (as if that could happen)

Do you realize how utterly offensive these comments are to Kennedy's memory?

[Honeycombe8]

67. I read the whole quote. I guess you didn't? Let me paste it here for you.

"But if he didn't see the ability to be able to get it done, he would not throw the baby out with the bathwater. He would not say no to anything because we have to reduce the cost. We have to make these changes. And he would find the best way forward."

STEPHANOPOULOS: So he wouldn't agree with those like Howard Dean who say it's not worth doing if you don't have the public health insurance option?

KERRY: I think there is an enormous amount, George -- oh, here is what Teddy would do. He would say, I'm going to fight the fight, and if and when we get to the point that we can't get there, we'll see whether or not we can do enough to make good happen out of this."

HE WOULD NOT THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER. (translation: he would compromise.)

HE WOULD NOT SAY NO TO ANYTHING BECAUSE WE HAVE TO REDUCE THE COST. (translation: he would compromise)

HE WOULD FIND THE BEST WAY FORWARD. (translation: he would compromise)

WE'LL SEE WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN DO ENOUGH TO MAKE GOOD HAPPEN OUT OF THIS (translation: anything is better than nothing....he would compromise)

****************

Kerry didn't just say it once. In those few short statements, he said FOUR TIMES that Kennedy would compromise.

To point out Kerry's mistake in flapping his jaws about how the Democrat whose whole legislative life was to bring about universal health care, would COMPROMISE in the 11th hour...is not dishonoring anyone, much less Kennedy.

Kerry should shut his mouth on the subject, if he can't be helpful to the Democrats in this push for health care reform that includes a public option (health care for all...like Kennedy wanted). That is partly why he lost the election: not knowing what to say and when to say it. Even if he thinks that, HE SHOULDN'T BE JOINING THE REPUBLICANS IN SAYING AT THIS JUNCTURE THAT KENNEDY WOULD COMPROMISE.

(Oh, and here's a tip: When you're having a grownup discussion on a serious issue, it's helpful to stick to facts, rather than personally attacking someone. Personal attacks are for youngsters or people who don't have facts to buttress their arguments.)

[ProSense]

68. Comprehension helps. Let's use your shouting

HE WOULD NOT THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHWATER. (translation: he would compromise TO ENSURE THE PUBLIC OPTION IS PRESERVED)

HE WOULD NOT SAY NO TO ANYTHING BECAUSE WE HAVE TO REDUCE THE COST. (translation: he would compromise TO ENSURE THE PUBLIC OPTION IS PRESERVED)

HE WOULD FIND THE BEST WAY FORWARD. (translation: he would compromise TO ENSURE THE PUBLIC OPTION IS PRESERVED)

WE'LL SEE WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN DO ENOUGH TO MAKE GOOD HAPPEN OUT OF THIS (translation: anything is better than nothing....he would compromise TO ENSURE THE PUBLIC OPTION IS PRESERVED)

Then you intentionally left out this part of Kerry's statement: "And you can't make that measurement today. We have to go down that road."

And nowhere does Kerry say anything that you or the OP are implying.

The thing is that Kerry seems to understand the reality a lot more than you do. The Dems do not have to compromise.

(Oh, and here's a tip: When you're having a grownup discussion on a serious issue, it's helpful to stick to facts, rather than personally attacking someone. Personal attacks are for youngsters or people who don't have facts to buttress their arguments.)

Get over yourself. The faulty logic you just displayed bears no resemblance to fact or a grownup discussion.




edited typos.

[Honeycombe8]

71. That's not what he meant. And you know it. He was saying Ted would

move forward. He was answering a question about whether Ted would not go along with a bill that did not include a public option.

I'm right, and you know it.

Humility is a good thing to learn. I guess you are a Kerry supporter who just cannot take any criticism of him. I voted for him. Nice guy. Smart man. But stupid comments. He did, indeed, say four times that Kennedy would compromise.

Read the other posts. Everyone, except you, agrees that's what he was saying.

[ProSense]

72. "That's not what he meant. And you know it...I'm right, and you know it." How grown up.

:rofl:

[Honeycombe8]

73. Just the facts. You refuse to admit when you are wrong about something.

I guess you assumed I'm too stupid to know what Kerry meant?

Again, read the other posts. Yours is out of sync and in no way connected to the reality of what Kerry said.

My (and the other posters') take on his statements are correct. Yours are incorrect. Just a fact. Accept it. You are wrong sometimes. We all are.

[ProSense]

74. "I'm right, and you know it" is not a fact. "read the other posts. Yours is out of sync" Fact:

There are at least nine people in this thread who believe your interpretation is a distortion.

"I guess you assumed I'm too stupid to know what Kerry meant?"

Didn't say that, but you're pushing some faulty logic.