I'll tell everyone this, and I'm telling you this now....

[deminflorida]

If Dean loses in Iowa because of this issue....

"DES MOINES, Iowa - Democrat Howard Dean (news - web sites), engaged in a fierce fight to win Iowa's presidential caucuses, said four years ago that caucuses are dominated by special interests, words that could haunt him with less than two weeks before the Jan. 19 contest."

And he will, Gephardt is going for the political jugular vein on this one....

Then N.H. is wide open for either Clark or Kerry. I'm hoping Clark, but lets face it, it's Kerry's back yard. Whatever...

What it will mean is that Dean is then in for the political fight of his life in South Carolina,....if he doesn't pull out a win there...

He's finished...period....

He may not even make it to Super Tuesday.

[LuminousX]

1. If he isn't 'finished' will you change your tune about him?

[Atlant]

33. You know full well that the Dean attacks will continue...

until the moment he's nominated and Skinner shuts them off.

Atlant

[Renew Deal]

2. There seems to be a full on assault on Dean these days.

I mean it's coming from everywhere. I am not sure if I have ever seen this much heat before Iowa.

[AP]

5. One things about this is great: all attention will focus on Dem primaries.

Perhaps one problem for Gore was that the primaries were so boring. We have a narrative building up here which will make this race interesting.

[dajabr]

11. No horse race, no $$$

A Dean blowout does not sell fabric softener. Give a little boost to Clark, add a dash of "Gotcha," and voila, the Whores have got themselves a horse race.

Me? I'm going to start writing some letters for Dean again and crack a book I just picked up.

Let me know when some real news breaks...

[fearnobush]

22. Bush McCain was ugly, lets remind the RNC that we too can

use that as a weapon, if they try to smear our primaries with our own smear. Also, primaries though ugly at times do and will build the fighting character of the winner. If Dean wins this thing, he sure as hell will be well prepared to deal with Rove's shock and surprise smear bullshit when it comes 1 day before the convention.

[MIMStigator]

3. Dean is going to lose Iowa to Gephart n/t

nt

[NewYorkerfromMass]

4. New Hampshire could care less what Iowa does

It's proven it time and again. New Englanders are very stubborn as I know personally.
Truth is Dean winning Iowa could even be seen as a liability in NH. There is no Iowa momentum.

[w4rma]

19. "NH could care less what Iowa does" "winning Iowa could even be seen as a

"winning Iowa could even be seen as a liability in NH"

Don't you even see the problem with these two statements, NewYorkerfromMass? They can't both be true.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

24. Only that it's never the same winner

NH tends to rebut Iowa.

[CTLawGuy]

6. this "issue" is a whole lot of nothing.

it only says dean is critical of the caucus process. Im sure no one in Iowa will be insulted by it. Only supporters of other candidate care about this.


Caucuses are a long time investment, (2 hours about) so only the most dedicated actually go. it's difficult to get people to take two minutes to fill in a circle, but to caucus is, I imagine, harder to get people to do.

i agree with him, and I prefer the primary process.

[molly]

15. A whole lot of nothing? Back off and explain if this were

Clark or Kerry - would it be a "whole lot of nothing" then?

[CTLawGuy]

23. yes,

becuase theres nothing wrong with criticizing the caucus system. I wouldnt' have said "dominated by speical interests" though, I probably would have said, "only the most dedicated actually participate

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. I take it you

didn't bother to watch the tape where Dean said Bush was, in his heart, a MODERATE? Obviously, you didn't. :eyes:

They have 90 of those tapes and it sounds like they are going to be playing snipits for all of us to see. The tapes are NOT going to help Dean....he looks really bad on the one I saw.

[Lobo_13]

7. No news here for Iowans

Do you seriously think that anyone who is even peripherally aware of the caucuses don't know that they are heavily influenced by the special interests and party activists?

Unions are the driving force of the Dem caucus, to think otherwise would be folly.

Dean is leading IN SPITE of the special interests. Hell, with the Gep union machine, he should be running away with the caucus.

[tedoll78]

35. Yup.

Dean gets back on the campaign trail in Iowa today after a bit of rest. You can bank on it that Dean will forcefully answer this issue before it gets too big. In fact, his campaign has been so masterful, that I'm wondering how he's going to turn those comments into a positive..

[SheilaT]

8. At least twice a day

someone here starts a new thread announcing breathlessly and definitively that Dean is toast, he'll lose the caucus in Iowa and the primary in New Hampshire and has not chance of being nominated but if he is nominated he can't possibly win the election.

What else is new?

I filed my nails this evening. Is that of interest to anyone?

[deminflorida]

12. You said it files..sealed ones, that's what started the whole snow

ball effect. Well, it's beginning to become an avalanche now...

[Dookus]

9. actually....

if Gephardt wins Iowa, it changes the whole dynamic. It will give a huge and much-needed boost in NH.

Kerry seems to be fading fast in NH, and a Gephardt win in Iowa won't do anything to help that. It will, however, hurt Dean a lot and do some damage to Clark if it pushes him back down into third or fourth place.

I've said it before - Gephardt has the most upside of any of the candidates going into Iowa.

[lurk_no_more]

10. WOW this is getting.....

I don't know....so train wreck like.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[killbotfactory]

13. Oh yeah, he's doomed

BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAH

[quinnox]

14. Very curious timing

Even I have to admit, the media is pumping out these negative stories out on Dean in a flurry.

[Printer70]

16. Trivial accusation - Clark gutter tactics

Interest groups do dominate the caucuses. Since the process is an ordeal, special interest groups mobilize their voters and have a bigger impact than in a normal primary. Dean tells the truth and unprincipled types jump on him for it. Some "special interests" are important contributors to society like unions.

[MIMStigator]

18. Why is it gutter to quote Dean dissing Iowa caucus?

eom

[Printer70]

21. Because...

You're making this out to be much more than it is. What he said was true. It is not critical of the people of Iowa. It won't affect anyone's vote. With your statements like "He's finished...period...." and "He may not even make it to Super Tuesday.", you're implying he said something vile about Iowa or Iowans.

[deminflorida]

27. Not at all I said that Gephardt was going for his political jugular..

and he will, trust me. He's a savvy politician. Had nothing to do with Iowans...of course Iowans might get pissed if they find out there's any truth to the Gephardt accusations that Dean supporters plan to pretend to be Iowans during the voting process.

That would reak of Florida 2000 Freeper tactics and piss everyone off.

[Printer70]

29. It's a matter of historical record, that you said:

"He's finished...period...."

and

"He may not even make it to Super Tuesday."

You are overdramatizing the importance of this matter and in the process. If he said "All Iowans are hicks", then he might be "finished". His comments were benign.

[deminflorida]

20. Gutter Tactics, Really?

Dean looked a little pale today, how's his health been lately? Read the posts today pal if you want to see some real gutter tactics.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=998134

Here's some good advice for Dean supporters:

Turn the heat down unless you want the snow to start melting in Iowa.

[Clark4VotingRights]

17. I don't see where Dean said anything wrong.

This subject seems absurd.

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. Watch the tape. It's on MSNBC's web site. n/t

[Lobo_13]

28. I want a straight up acknowledgement

I notice that this happens alot, especially with Clark supporters. There is a tendency to avoid unpleasant truths or anything that contradicts whatever the theory du jour is.

Please take note of the following points.

The Iowa caucuses are driven by special interests.
The people of Iowa (of which I am one) know this.
From the standpoint of an Iowan, this is nothing.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. Watch the tape.

Dean looks BAD! "Bush, in his heart, is a MODERATE." I thought Dean said he was a "RADICAL?" :bounce:

[Lobo_13]

32. So now, you've shifted

from one "problem" to another.

Just like B*** and Iraq. One thing doesn't stick, so you'll move onto another.

Still nothing new here.

[Atlant]

34. Here's how this works:

> The Iowa caucuses are driven by special interests.
> The people of Iowa (of which I am one) know this.
> From the standpoint of an Iowan, this is nothing.

Here's how this works:

"How dare Dr. Dean say this?"
"How dare Dr. Dean say this?"
"How dare Dr. Dean say this?"
"How dare Dr. Dean say this?"

"But it's the truth and everyone knows it."

"How dare Dr. Dean say this?"
"How dare you not be angry that Dr. Dean said this?"
"How dare Dr. Dean say this?"
"How dare you not be angry that Dr. Dean said this?"
"How dare Dr. Dean say this?"
"How dare you not be angry that Dr. Dean said this?"
"How dare Dr. Dean say this?"
"How dare you not be angry that Dr. Dean said this?"


Atlant

[GobGoober]

30. If there's a Harkin endorsement

It looks like Kerry just may be the guy.

[HFishbine]

36. Okee Doke

Brave of you to put your predictive abilities on the line. Bookmarking for posterity.

[KaraokeKarlton]

37. You wish

Dean will take Iowa and he's going to take NH. Looks like Kerry could take the number two spot in Iowa and have a better showing than previously thought. That will give Kerry enough of a boost to beat Clark in NH. Remember, Clark conceded Iowa, so he doesn't get any momentum from there. Gephardt has already gone for the "political jugular" and it doesn't slow Dean down a bit. I hear his campaign is making threats to Union Leaders and high profile politicians who are considering endorsing Dean. If a politician has to resort to making threats to try to stop someone else, then that tells me they have nothing to offer themselves.

:shrug: