Holy Moly!!!! Obama to order salary pay cuts for AIG (And OTHERS!!!)!!!!!!!

[Beetwasher]

U.S. to Order Steep Pay Cuts at Firms That Got Most Aid

WASHINGTON — Responding to the growing furor over the paychecks of executives at companies that received billions of dollars in federal bailouts, the Obama administration will order the companies that received the most aid to deeply slash the compensation to their highest paid executives, an official involved in the decision said on Wednesday.

Under the plan, which will be announced in the next few days by the Treasury Department, the seven companies that received the most assistance will have to cut the cash payouts to their 25 best-paid executives by an average of about 90 percent from last year. For many of the executives, the cash they would have received will be replaced by stock that they will be restricted from selling immediately.

--snip--

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/business/22pay.html?hp

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/21/795626/-Obama-to-order-salary-pay-cuts-for-AIG!!!!!!!-(Updated)

Cue the Obama basher/whiners.

"That's not change we can believe in...errr...*gulp*

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Now they'll whine he's overstepping his authority.

[Cha]

6. They have a stink tank for

the latest whining point.

[saracat]

16. There isn't anything but applause for this!

[bvar22]

80. Applause here too....

...from one of the most vocal critics of Obama's centrist policies.
I have consistently argued that Obama has the power to do this and things like this.
.
.
.
NOW, make it so, President Obama.
If not, it is just posturing for the cameras on a popular issue.

[SergeStorms]

130. Yeah, my thoughts as well.......

there seems to be a good deal of talk coming from the White House about how things SHOULD be, but as to the reality of how things will ACTUALLY be............ :shrug:

[Clio the Leo]

102. Yay Sara!!!!!

(see, I dont JUST cheer for Obama ;))

[saracat]

120. Thank you Clio! I never thought you did!

:-)

[sui generis]

142. to play devils advocate

IF indeed the top paid "executives" have their pay cut, I don't have a problem with that. Now let's talk about what defines an "executive" - you can be a VP of Bathroom Monitoring at a bank - they pass out titles in lieu of compensation in many cases.

Everybody's a Veep - so if there isn't a lot of "whining" (god damn I hate that word, with pathological focus since it was a republican jibe for the past 8 years), it's because nothing is keeping those "top paid" execs from turning around and telling everyone they need to take deep salary cuts. Keep in mind you can be a veep at a bank and not make more than 60K a year - but the bank bottom line will certainly profit.

No - I don't whine but I'm just wondering where that slippery slope ends if it isn't spelled out clearly, with hard numbers.

[JDPriestly]

201. It will keep 'em busy while the majoirty of Americans applaud.

The CEOs will still keep their money -- if they work to make their companies profitable for a longer term and get their companies in a position to pay back the taxpayers and turn a profit for shareholders. This is good strategy.

It's like telling your kid he gets the car keys after he shows that he can be responsible for some chores for a while.

[lark]

205. That's just petty

most of the complaints on this board about Obama are from him going corporatist and squishy, not for him acting like the person we thought we elected. This is good and I doubt many here will empathize with the robber barons. I am totally thrilled with this action, and expect most here feel exactly the same way.

:bounce:

[Hepburn]

2. Yay!!!!

:applause: :bounce:

[phleshdef]

3. No, they will act like their armchair Presidential bitching on the internetz should get the credit.

[polichick]

4. Good news - too bad Congress didn't take care of this at the time of the bailouts. nt

[Hepburn]

7. I totally agree...but I still am loving what I am reading ~~ AIG top Exec's limited to $200K salary.

Sad part is that some of these assholes will feel that with getting that sum they are at the poverty level.

[polichick]

25. You're so right - they'll be whining and crying something fierce! nt

[Grown2Hate]

140. GOOD! Then they can QUIT (without the "umbrella"), and they can apply

elsewhere, with "AIG Executive" being the #1 item on their resume. Assholes. :)

[waiting for hope]

5. Great! About time -

Wall Street needs to be reined in - Now, how about Goldman Sachs?

[saracat]

12. And this needs to apply to ALL the bailout companies, not just the ones that

took the most.

[beac]

104. Agreed. Hope this is only the first of many. n/t

[saracat]

8. I think this is wonderful news! This is action I can praise President Obama for!

Congress however, should have included this in the bailout terms.

[blm]

9. Finally - these thugs DESERVED this hammer. Thank you for this sensible course, Pres. Obama.

.

[Occam Bandage]

10. Ultimately meaningless, but a nice gesture. nt

[napi21]

14. Why is it meaningless?

[Occam Bandage]

24. Because the problem is not really "these 25 guys made a bit too much money."

The problem is, rather, "a vast proportion of the nation's wealth is directly controlled by an unaccountable, pseudohereditary class of oligarchs."

These guys are to the problem as Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens are to the problem of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball. Yes, they're the highest-profile examples of the problem, yes, they deserve to be punished, and yes, punishing them scarcely counts as a baby step towards fixing the problem.

[Beetwasher]

26. A Step Is A Step And I Would Argue That You Can't Discount The Impact Of The Symoblic Significance

On the culture that's responsible for the outrages.

[Occam Bandage]

35. If the end result of this is actual compensation reform, then it will have had significance.

If the end result of this--distinct from the intent, mind you--is to quell populist outrage by making people believe that something has been done, then I fully intend to discount the impact of the symbolic significance.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the White House is approaching this with anything but the purest of motivations and the best of intentions. I just don't think it's that big a deal. And I'm a proud cheerleader.

[Beetwasher]

41. I View This As A First Step

The rest of the reform is coming, I'm pretty confident about that.

[Occam Bandage]

42. So long as more steps follow, I'll agree. nt

[BlancheSplanchnik]

131. I think it's highly significant

in that this kind of clear message has been lacking for so long.

It's action by leaders that sets the tone for a society...it takes time for the message to permeate, but it will, particularly as the positive results become clear. It can only start with small but public steps.

(for example, I think bushco's creed of uglyness, hypocrisy, false religion, ignorance and greed pervaded the culture quite effectively--we see the result all around us. Similarly, the present vision has only had a short time to gorw, but people are screaming for this kind of compassion and higher values; seeing it displayed by leaders is exactly what's necessary to inspire and guide)


just my $.02

[DireStrike]

167. And if the end result is to piss people off

For example, if the right is allowed to capitalize on this through propaganda... then it will have been a bad move.

Repeat it with me: failure should be punished. If they want to make the big decisions and take the big risks, then they get the big punishment.

(like being knocked down to 200k is such a monstrous punishment.)

[lark]

206. It would have to be some damn fine propaganda

to get people to actually back paying millions of OUR MONEY, let me repeat - OUR $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - to the robbers for ruining the world when they should really be in jail. The real issue is, will this get watered down to utter meaninglessness as has every other proposed restriction? I just can't imaging Summers, Geithner and Bernake supporting this and Obama has let them have their way to date. I hope and pray this is real and will not get discarded in the right wing corporatist push back.

[Deep13]

188. I have to agree.

Let's see where this goes.

[GOTV]

159. Ah! Finally there's Symbolic Significance we can Believe in!

[Beetwasher]

160. You Have A Problem With This Move?

Pray tell...

[GOTV]

172. Not particularly yet. But I certainly am not interested in any thing symbolic at this point

... I'll note that as of today this is all still just talk and we have had a lot of that.

[Beetwasher]

176. It's Not Just Symbolic

But even if it WAS, you can't discount that aspect either.

[GOTV]

182. I may be more enthusiastic when we're talking about what he has done ....

.... rather than what he will do. But then again, it depends on what actually gets done.

[Beetwasher]

184. I'm Enthusiastic At Both

Call me an eternal optimist.

[JDPriestly]

203. It's a warning. If you rich guys come begging to the government for help,

you will have to accept the government, the taxpayers, as stakeholders who have a say in how you run your company and how much you pay your top executives.

Obama is under a lot of international pressure to do this. The French, for example, have been pressing international companies to lower the pay of top executives.

I was thinking this morning: liberty and justice for all. We heard so much about liberty, "freedom," from GWB, but we never heard about justice. It's time to have a little justice. This is just symbolic, but it sends the message: the rich should not be asking the poor for hand-outs. The other way round is OK, but the rich should take care of themselves from a financial point of view.

Now, we need to do something to help keep homeowners in their homes.

[mkultra]

136. I disagree. This is a correction of a wrong

Even if more steps where not to follow, just letting this go on unabated would be a crime in itself. This is the administration sending a message.

[slay]

11. Ok look - people have the right to criticize Obama!

I applaud him for this and am recommending this post - but your "cue the whiners" shit does nothing but divide people and is in no way helpful. I'm overjoyed when Obama does the right thing, but I can also identify with people who feel he had not done enough, not repealed DADT, has us in TWO wars right now, appoints AIG and Goldman Sachs people to high level positions.. I could go on and on but hopefully you get my point.

[Beetwasher]

15. Are You Saying That All So Called Criticism Is Valid And Equal???

Do you deny there are knee-jerk Obama bashers here who do nothing BUT find every reason to slam Obama???

[Enthusiast]

132. Has the financial services industry been

regulated? Complaining that long overdue changes in regulation haven't been made is hardly some unjustified knee-jerk reaction. The need for regulatory change should be considered a crisis.

Slam OBama? Hardly. But he does need a swift kick in the ass.

[Beetwasher]

154. Bullshit

Again, I asked you if you deny that there are kneejerk douchebags who do NOTHING BUT slam Obama on this site. Do you deny that? If you do, what fucking planet do you live on? I'm not condemning valid criticism. However YOUR criticism is NOT valid. It's childish fantasy.

O doesn't need a kick in the ass. You expect him to have done this already??? You're expectations are ludicrous and childish. You can't clean up a mess before you get into a room and see exactly what needs to be cleaned up and that takes a bit of time.

[Enthusiast]

234. Characterize it as childish if you wish.

But President Obama has the deregulation advocates Geithner and Summers in his administration. Hell of a way to clean up a mess. So, again, I disagree, Obama needs a kick in the ass and it should have come a long time ago. If not for apologists like you it might have. I'm not a Republican, I don't go happily along in lock step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP4d5paLECs

[Beetwasher]

239. Pathetic

You sit here and whine on DU and then take credit for Obama's accomplishemts. Pathetic.

[Enthusiast]

248. Kind of odd that

you call so many of us whiners. Where do you get off? You are the whiner. You are whining because we expect our elected officials to act in the interest of the American People. So just how many of us did you anger in this thread?

[Beetwasher]

250. Aww, Poor You, I Angered You??? Wahhhhhh!!!!

Did I hurt your feelings? WHINE! :rofl:

[Enthusiast]

252. You aren't even a real Democrat.

You're only here to to create problems. I suspect you are a stealth Republican.

[lark]

207. Can I play?

I deny it.

Now, I'm not here every day and don't read every thread, but based on what I've seen, the complaints are valid. I've seen much more, oh don't worry, he'll fix it later, or he must have been mislead, or it doesn't really matter if we have the public option, etc. People selling out their beliefs for the charisma nad promise of Obama is more the norm than bashing for no reason.

[Beetwasher]

211. Then You're Willfully Ignorant, Blind or Lying

Because there damn sure are posters who have nothing constructive except slams.

[dionysus]

17. there are as many or more threads that say "cue the cheerleaders" FWIW

[phleshdef]

21. The "cue the whiners" shit is VALID because the whiners have no adult sense of patience or realism.

[Beetwasher]

23. Those Of Us Who Are Labelled So Called "Cheerleaders" Knew This Sort Of Stuff Was Coming

We've counselled patience and argued this sort of change doesn't happen overnight. So it's sweet to see our patience rewarded.

[jgraz]

28. No you didn't

And we don't know it's coming now. Just like Obama's call to pay back last year's bonuses, this may die a quiet death.

On the other hand, if Obama makes it stick, I'll be breaking out my pompons.

[Beetwasher]

32. Yes I Did

Just as I know it's going to happen.

Heh, right on cue.

[jgraz]

37. Prove it.

Point to one post of yours predicting that Obama will demand paycuts for executives at bailed out companies.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jgraz]

38. Handy translation for those of us on the left

"adult" = corporatist
"patience" = corporatism
"realism" = corporatism

[phleshdef]

46. Its not my fault that your insatiable desire for instant gratification causes you unneeded anger.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[phleshdef]

96. Geez, if you keep allowing your nerves to be struck, you are gonna have a breakdown.

[Divine Discontent]

105. I'm sure they'll ignore the part in the story also that says they get stock options to make up for

the cut in pay, that they just have to wait to cash in!


S
O
S
D
D

[GOTV]

161. I think that's an improvement - isn't it?

You get deferred compensation that requires you to think several years down the road about your company's welfare rather than play tricks to get a quarter's worth of unsustainable growth.

[Beetwasher]

166. Of Course It Is, But Some People Just HAVE To Find SOMETHING To Whine About

n/t

[JDPriestly]

204. That's OK. The problem is that, as so many have said, they want to

take their gains in pay and bonuses and pass their losses on to the taxpayers. That is what is wrong.

I believe there is a bill requiring companies to obtain shareholder approval of salary schedules for the big guys in the companies.

[mkultra]

139. dont forget these

Obama smears = constructive criticism
Obama support = blind cheerleading.

[Name removed]

148. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RaleighNCDUer]

68. the point is, the whiners have been complaining he's been letting

these companies suck us dry - and now they will whine that he is interfering with private industry and going all socialistic.

there is a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' contingent here, and that is who is being addressed.

[girl gone mad]

89. I seriously doubt anyone on DU would make that argument..

at least not the people who have opposed the massively corrupt bailouts.

[Lilith Velkor]

123. Remember all those OPs saying that leftists and teabaggers are exactly alike?

They're not kidding. They actually believe that. Seriously.

Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug.

[spoony]

100. And until now that's been true.

Now he's doing something about it. You're not going to find anyone here complaining about him being a "socialist."

[Clio the Leo]

103. Perhaps the ONE thing we might all agree on....

.... is that he's not socialistic ENOUGH! lol

I dont want a bailout, I want a government run commune! :)

[mkultra]

137. so you can criticise Obama but we cant criticise you?

whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Criticizing Obama is pretty damn divisive all on its own.

[lark]

208. So Dems are supposed to just cheer him - no matter what?

We're supposed to cheer - escalation in Afghanistan, keeping extraordinary rendition in place, keeping secret wiretaps in place, bailing out wall st. but cutting most of the bail out for main st., no changes to DADT, no changes to DOMA? All of those are Bush area programs that he is standing up for. Criticizing these is divisive? Then why the hell did we elect him if we cheer him for the immoral Bush programs that he's continuing? We cheer him when he does something progressive and fuss when he's a corporatist. That is right and proper, in my book.

[mkultra]

235. If you can make logical jumps then so can I. Welcome to DU.

So are we suppose to never express any opinions that may be positive. So are we suppose to the place the blame for all things on Obama? Are we supposed to expect everything be magically done. Do we expect that he wipe his but with the constitution like Bush did but just for our goals instead of GOP goals?


You can jam the stick as far to one side as you want it doesn't change the truth of the dynamic which is that the serial whiners are never happy and cant stand to be criticized. A Vast majority stood against Obama in the primary and still hate him even to this day. Their perspective is myopic about pace and scale and the duties of a sitting president in a democracy.

Why did we elect him? The answer is simple. They didn't while i did. If they had voted for him, they would know what to expect from him and wouldn't be upset when he does it exactly how he said he would. Most of us know that the people who complain constantly all SAY they voted for him but we can easily scan historical posts and see that they swore they wouldn't.

[fascisthunter]

13. I just heard Freeper Heads Explode

[quantass]

18. America only gets change after a travesty...and so finally...Welcome back Change! nt

[Hepburn]

19. It's not only AIG ~~ he is also nailing these companies as well:

The companies affected are: Bank of America, Citigroup, General Motors, Chrysler, GMAC and Chrysler Financial.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=8882622#

I would like to call out a big FUCK YOU to Bank of America!

[Beetwasher]

20. Yup!

n/t

[PatSeg]

22. Ah, new material for Glenn Beck

Obama is headed closer to becoming a DICTATOR!!! It would be a good time for some crocodile tears as he fears what is happening to his country.

[CountAllVotes]

27. GM, Citi, Chrysler, AIG and Bank Of America.

Breaking news right now on Msnbc - Obama admin will order steep pay cuts on the top 7 bailed out firms. Some of those firms are:

GM, Citi, Chrysler, AIG and Bank Of America.

*********
Cry babies cry!!! :cry:

Just fucking breaks my heart!!!! :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

:kick: and recommend.

[Beetwasher]

30. They Have No One To Blame But Themselves

n/t

[CountAllVotes]

34. they took that money

and they never bothered to pay it back or pass it on to investors.

FUCK THEM.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[GOTV]

163. How does that work though? How can he simply order pay cuts?

As much as I want that to happen I don't understand the mechanism.

[intheflow]

170. I'm guessing a retroactive clause in the terms of their bailout agreement.

I mean, it's not like the bankers aren't changing the terms of millions of contracts they have with credit card holders or other borrowers without notice, and those run-of-the-mill people didn't just get a huge chunk of federal tax dollars. I'm hoping there's legal precident to this move, anyway.

[GOTV]

173. That doesn't seem the least bit legal, unless ....

... there was some clause allowing the government to change the terms at any time - much like all credit card agreements have. That would be sweet poetic justice. But I'd be surprised if these companies would have gone into such an agreement.

[Thrill]

29. And what do you know. Go check the DOW now

They're pissed

[CountAllVotes]

31. . . .

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity::nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[phleshdef]

48. Nah, thats been the trend on and off for a few weeks.

[Thrill]

74. Nope. It was up 39. And when this flashed across. It tanked

Despite good earnings news

[phleshdef]

88. Um, YEP, look at the trends over the past week. And NO analysts are saying this has anything to do..

with it. Pay attention to whats actually going on before rushing to judgements.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-St-loses-ground-Boeing-rb-3302651387.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

"U.S. stocks ended lower on Wednesday, hurt by a late-day sell-off in financial shares after an influential analyst recommended selling Wells Fargo ."

The stock shift today have NOTHING, ZERO, NOT A DAMN THING to do with this news.

[Oregone]

33. "Cue the Obama basher/whiners"

Stupid way to start a thread. Most people are going to agree this is a good step. Im not sure why you want to twist everything into a fight or an insult at people on the left.

[Beetwasher]

36. Whatever

Feel free to unrec.

I'm not insulting "people on the left". I'm insulting whiners.

[Oregone]

40. Ah, it just seems you label people on the left as "whiners"

Same thing.

The bottom line is you posted a news story and attached snide comments that cause further division. Im not sure what your intention was, but thats the effect. Seems pointless to pre-empt "whining" with childish divisive and behavior.

[Beetwasher]

44. No, Just The Whiners

Considering I'm about as left as it gets. I'm just a realist who knows shit is not accomplished immediately just because I want it to be.

[slay]

53. I tried to point that out but the original poster just wants to fight with people it seems

:shrug:

[paulk]

155. +1

"Seems pointless to pre-empt "whining" with childish divisive and behavior."


---------------


some people get off on playing the victim

[spoony]

98. Indeed, just more divisive stupidity. nt

[Divine Discontent]

111. ignore is my new friend with these types of hostile screamers, reading his commentary

with others looks like an AOL comment section. Painful.

Hope you're well, spoony!

[Divine Discontent]

109. because they wanna argue. simple enough.

[Enrique]

39. the stuff about the whiners is so STUPID

we're all on the same side.

[Beetwasher]

45. Uhh, No, We're Not

Most of us are, but there are plenty of posters here who are most certainly not on our side.

[Oregone]

47. Please let "us" know when "we" win the fight against "them" on DU

The whining green martian moon men must be stopped

[Beetwasher]

50. Uhh, Ok Chester

Whatever you say. Have fun in your little fantasy world. I'll live in reality, thanks!

[Fire1]

56. You got THAT right!! EV-ER-Y time they doubt, scorn and

discredit him, he comes outta know where with TA-DA!!! How you like me now!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Enrique]

66. no, your loyalty test is garbage

no one at DU authorized your loyalty test. It has no validity.

[Beetwasher]

67. That's The Stupidest Fucking Think I've Ever Heard

I'm just pointing out an obvious fact. You think there are no trolls/disruptors/whatever on this board? What fucking planet do you live on?

[Enrique]

71. You don't get to decide who's "loyal" to Obama

we're all democrats here. If you see a troll, hit alert, the mods will take care of them. If the mods let them stay then they are every bit as good a DUer as you are.

[Beetwasher]

Sure I Do

I get to decide all the time who I think is a troll or not. Just like I get to decide who I think is a whining douchebag. What fucking planet do you live on?

And this has nothing to do w/ "loyalty", it has to do w/ reality and pragmatism. IOW, there are those of us who realize that O wants to change things, but it takes time. And then there are the whining bashers, douchebags and trolls who do nothing but constantly complain.

[Fire1]

93. SLAM DUNK! n/t

[Cha]

65. No, "whiners" is actually quite appropriate after 9 months

of this shit.

Some of us are just suppose to roll over and pretend we don't notice all the whining? Don't think so.

And, the whiners know who they are.

[slay]

49. Cue the Obama cheerleaders!

two can play at this stupid game.. :crazy: :silly: :boring:

[Beetwasher]

51. Yes, Cue Them!

:woohoo:

Sucks for you. Nothing to whine about, huh? Oh, that's right, now you can whine that I'm being mean to the whiners. :rofl:

[slay]

54. I am sorry I recommended this thread at all

you are a very mean spirited person

[Beetwasher]

59. Sucks For You!

Welcome to the internets.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beetwasher]

64. LOL!

"Bite me alien boy."

Yes, run away! Run away!

Another one bites the dust.

[lark]

209. Methinks your tag line says it all

[Beetwasher]

212. Nope, I Got A Lot More Than That To Say

You got a problem w/ that, Chester?

[SammyWinstonJack]

236. +1 nt

[phleshdef]

52. Yes, cue us reveling in the fact that we have been and continue to be right all along.

[slay]

57. Yes, cause you are all knowing and never wrong

:crazy:

[phleshdef]

69. And now I'm reveling in your bitterness over my being right.

[Cha]

55. You offer nothing..no, wait..

less than nothing.

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beetwasher]

62. "you are a very mean spirited person"

tsk tsk. :rofl:

[Cha]

94. It musta been something to get it removed..

glad I didn't bother to go back.

[Beetwasher]

95. Pretty Lame Actually

Just told you to fuck off if memory serves. :hi:

Vindication is sweet, huh?

[Cha]

101. The

Sweetest!:hi:

[NYC_SKP]

255. Here!!!

[kestrel91316]

58. Howdya like THEM apples, Obama bashers??

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

61. Notice all the complaints about post #1.

When those people read "obama bashers/whiners" those people took that personally.

[phleshdef]

70. Good observation. And normally when someone takes it personal, its because its true.

[Enrique]

73. no, it might be slander

people that get slandered tend to get really pissed off.

[phleshdef]

97. LOL... slander, such overdramatic BS, I love it.

[HopeOverFear]

90. Exactly.

[high density]

72. Thanks for reminding me of "Green Screen McCain"

LOL

If people at AIG can't live with $200k a year and a $25k expense account then maybe they should run their businesses better and not attempt to crater the world economy with their amazingly inept lose-lose decisions.

[saracat]

75. I appreciate this gesture and congratulate Obama for it but you ruin

this thread with all the nastiness you and others post about other DUers with diverse opinions regarding aspects of the Admin. You are 'creating division" where there isn't any. So far there has been NO criticism of the president for this action and yet, you behave as though there is an attack on him for it! I will give a big Thank You to the President for this one but no thanks to you are the other nasty folks in this thread.

[Beetwasher]

76. Whatever, Glad You Appreciate This Act

I'm an asshole. I'll revel in being right about my judgement of Obama and rub it in the faces of the whining douchebags and trolls if I feel like it. Welcome to the internets.

[Enrique]

77. +1

cheers to Obama, jeers to the people creating fake divisions.

[Beetwasher]

78. Heh, The Division Is Not Fake

Do you deny there are whining douchebags and trolls who frequent this site who never have a good thing to say about O? What planet do you live on?

[Enrique]

79. Cheers to Obama

this isn't the first thing that he's done that I've liked. I'll keep giving him props when he does something good, and keep criticizing him when he does something bad.

:bounce:

[Beetwasher]

81. Good for you!

n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

122. -2

[ampad]

141. You got some fucking nerve

You probably got me on ignore by now but oh well. You have some nerve trying to point fingers at others for being divisive. Your behavior during the primaries tells anyone what they need to know about your concern for politeness. Also, you are one of the ones that will show your ass over in GD. Calling folks cheerleaders and Obama defenders as if the poster does not have a screen name to be called by. No to you their screen names are "Obama defenders" . You do this before the so called "Obama defender" even steps foot in the thread. Calling people who have the nerve to use the unrec function obama defenders are daring them to use it in order to create a scene. I notice you do this when you got a bunch of your buddies over there to give you a little e-courage. You got some nerve pointing fingers at others. What a bunch of bull.

[ipaint]

82. Good for Obama and thank god for whiners.

If it wasn't for folks raising their voices in outrage this wouldn't happen.

[Beetwasher]

83. LOL!!!

Riiiiiighhhttt!!

[lark]

210. Luv ya

:hug:

[GCP]

84. Woot

:woohoo:

[valerief]

85. Now maybe they'll get rid of their "best" execs and get some real execs in there! nt

[GCP]

86. Do they still get bonuses?

It may be meaningless to cut their salaries, if they still get obscene bonuses.

[Beetwasher]

87. Read The Article

n/t

[Divine Discontent]

106. snark!

they still get their salaries, just in the form of stock options they have to wait to cash in, apparently.

[Beetwasher]

110. That's Way different than cash

And there will be restrictions even on that.

[Romulox]

147. It's still valuable consideration for work done, which makes it compensation...

:hi:

[Beetwasher]

149. Not Necessarily Valuable

That depends. How would you like to have been paid in GM stock that you couldn't sell any time you wanted?

[Romulox]

152. The mere potential for value is itself valuable. That's what an "option" is...

and an "option" is something that, contractually speaking, may only be traded for valuable consideration.

This is definitional. :hi:

"How would you like to have been paid in GM stock that you couldn't sell any time you wanted?"

Versus nothing? Gimme gimme gimme!

[Beetwasher]

153. No, Not Versus Nothing, Versus A Guaranteed Salary

And a golden parachute that gets paid regardless of performance. That is what we are talking about. I have no problems w/ these stock options. It means they are much more invested in making the company successful and profitable and that's good for the employees who make much less than them.

[Romulox]

156. Which is why the story in the OP is a bit misleading, eh?

The story in the OP makes it sound like this is a straight pay cut. But it's really just a change from cash compensation to stock options. Not earth-shattering in the least.

"And a golden parachute that gets paid regardless of performance."

The article makes it clear that this will not affect pensions, so the "golden parachute" will still be paid, regardless of performance.

"I have no problems w/ these stock options."

I have a problem with the way this story has been reported. To not mention that the "90% pay cut (sic)" simply means that the 90% has been converted to stock options instead of cash is deceptive, at best.

[Beetwasher]

158. Golden Parachute Is Not A Pension

I don't know if the story is misleading or not. It may just be the details need to be more fully filled in. I'll wait to see the full details, but this is VERY encouraging regardless.

You can bet your ass the CEO's will be mega pissed off. This is NOT good for them, regardless.

[Romulox]

162. I'm not sure what you think a "golden parachute" is...

"A golden parachute is an agreement between a company and an employee (usually upper executive) specifying that the employee will receive certain significant benefits if employment is terminated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_parachute"

Pensions surely qualify under this definition, though severance packages would as well.

At any rate, this is all a distraction. The Master is not ordering a pay cut--he is ordering that cash compensation be converted into stock options.

[Beetwasher]

164. Wrong

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

"In the AIG trading division, the arm of the company whose risky trades caused its downfall, no top executive will receive more than $200,000 in total compensation,.."

That's a pay cut. Period. Total compensation is total compensation.

[Romulox]

171. AIG is being treated differently, BUT they will still get their "bonuses"...

The article does mention that AIG will be treated differently than the rest, but AIG is about to hand out the SECOND round of taxpayer funded "bonuses" since Obama took office.

Your link is bad, but if it's a repost of the NYTimes story, I noticed you snip snipped before the inconvenient part:


"At the financial products division of A.I.G., the locus of problems that plagued the insurer and forced its rescue with more than $180 billion in taxpayer assistance, no top executive will receive more than $200,000 in total compensation, and officials in that unit will not receive any other compensation, like stocks or stock options. Some bonuses previously promised will be paid in the coming year, and it is not clear how much of those will be awarded."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/business/22pay.html?_r=1&_...

[Beetwasher]

175. Umm, What You Posted Confirms What I Said

"...and officials in that unit will not receive any other compensation, like stocks or stock options. Some bonuses previously promised will be paid in the coming year, and it is not clear how much of those will be awarded."

Some bonuses previously promised will be paid, maybe. We don't have the details.

[Romulox]

179. And what I said (which is the point of quotes): "Some bonuses previously promised will be paid..."

:hi:

[Beetwasher]

180. and it is not clear how much of those will be awarded."

Forgot that part. :hi:

So MAYBE some bonuses will be paid and some won't.

[Romulox]

181. Since ALL of them were "awarded" (funny word) at 100% last time, and no new regulation is proposed

as to the payment of said bonuses (wouldn't the announcement regarding pay cuts been a convenient time to announce any new restrictions on so-called "bonuses"?) the logical inference is that they will ALL be paid out at 100% once more. :hi:

[Beetwasher]

183. Except It Doesn't Say That Now Does It?

Nope, sure doesn't. Infer all you want.

This is a good move and good news. Feel free to bitch that it's not perfect though! :hi:

[Romulox]

189. Your agenda becomes clearer. nt

[Beetwasher]

190. What? You're Busted Just Making Shit Up So Now I Have An Agenda?

:rofl:

Oh, I have an agenda all right. Exposing your bullshit. Mission accomplished.

[Romulox]

192. LOL. Remembering what happened 6 months ago isn't "making shit up".

Perhaps you just became interested in this issue? :shrug:

They paid out the AIG bonuses at 100% last time, didn't mention any plans to do otherwise this time. :hi:

[Beetwasher]

193. No, Making Shit Up Has To Do W/ Your "Inferring" Shit That Isn't Being Reported

That's called "Making shit up".

[Romulox]

214. In other words, remembering the last round of AIG bonuses.

:silly:

[Beetwasher]

216. No, Making Shit Up That Wasn't In The Story Through "Inference"

IOW, just making shit up.

[Romulox]

217. You can demand people read news story with feigned ignorance of the context if you like

But it makes you look foolish.

[Beetwasher]

218. I Demand Nothing But Call Your Bullshit Bullshit

Make up shit all you want, but I'll call you on it all I want.

[Romulox]

222. Nothing is being made up. AIG bonuses paid for with taxpayer money are very real.

And have been reported in every major news organ. I am simply commenting that the government is saying that more taxpayer funded bonuses will be paid. Presumably, under the same conditions as last time, since no new restrictions have been announced or proposed by the Obama admin in the interim.

At any rate, enough with the temper tantrum. :hi:

[Beetwasher]

224. Yes, You Are Making Shit Up That's Not In The Story

Point out where it says all bonuses will be paid in full. I'll wait.

[Romulox]

226. I'm discussing a news story and making logical inferences based on context.

That this is so threatening to you suggests you don't understand how internet discussion boards work. :silly:

[Beetwasher]

228. And Your Inferences Are Bullshit

I'm calling you on it. Welcome to the internets.

[Romulox]

232. For the *logically coherent* and *in no way overly emotional and hostile* reasons you put forth...

er, right?

I'm not sure why I'm having such a hard time saying goodbye to you, but I am... :cry:

Thanks for the laugh. Seriesly.

[Beetwasher]

233. Parting Is Such Sweet Sorrow

I will miss your blathering idiocy and dishonest bullshit. Oh well.

*smooch* Thanks for the laugh, cupcake.

[Beetwasher]

191. Also, Just For The Record, Pensions Are For Retirement

Golden parachutes and severence pay have nothing to do w/ pensions and retirement.

Get your facts straight. Your wiki link does nothing to support your idiotic claim that a golden parachute is a pension plan despite your warped attempt at redefinition. It has to do w/ termination and has absolutely nothing to do w/ a pension. At all.

[Romulox]

194. This is your own definition. Excessive pensions are indeed compensation regardless of performance

issued upon termination of employment. They're golden parachutes, by the definition above.

[Beetwasher]

196. Uhh, No, Termination Is Not Retirement

It's termination. Duh.

Umm, what's my definition? That a pension is for retirement? On what fucking planet do you live on where it's not defined as such?

[Romulox]

198. Retirement is indeed the termination of employment. No barrister, you. nt

[Beetwasher]

200. LOL! Oh Brother, Way To Make Yourself Look Stupid

So is ALL termination retirement, Chester? :eyes:

So when you get fired from your job at McDonalds at 17 years old for starting a grease fire in your hair, you get your pension pay out?

[Romulox]

213. No logician, either.

"So is ALL termination retirement, Chester?"

Superman is a man. I am a man. Ergo I am Superman. Your logic is flawless.

Retirement is a type of (typically voluntary) termination of employment. You're thinking of "involuntary termination". And just so you don't get confused--"involuntary termination" is a type of termination, but not all terminations are involuntary! :hi:

[Beetwasher]

215. Umm, Einstein, That's YOUR LOGIC! ROFL

I asked you a question, Jeenyus, why don't you answer it? I wasn't making a logical statement.

You say retirement IS termination, therefore a golden parachute is Pension because it's paid upon TERMINATION.

That's YOUR idiotic logic. I was ridiculing you and deservedly so.

Pensions are payable only upon retirement. Period. Golden parachutes and severence ARE NOT PENSIONS in any way shape or form.

You knew that but your just being purposefuly obtuse.

At this point your intellectual dishonesty deserves only ridicule. So, keep it up and I will continue to ridicule your dishonest idiocy.

[Romulox]

219. Ummm, you're still not getting the "Superman is a Man. I am a man" example

I think you're just having a fit now. Words can mean whatever you like (in your own head), but my experience is that "characterization" arguments are the least productive.

If you would like to believe that retirement does not entail the termination of employment (and that, even if we accept this strange premise, this somehow excuses $50 million dollar pension plans for bailed out Wall Street execs,) then that's your right.

I will continue to point out that the inaccuracies in stories like the OP. As is my right. :hi:

[Beetwasher]

221. Good Grief You Are Looking Painfully Stoopid

Keep it up jeenyus!

[Romulox]

223. You do you realize that stomping of feat/calling of names isn't convincing, right?

:silly:

[Beetwasher]

225. Neither Is Blathering Idiocy, But It Doesn't Stop You From Continuing To Post

n/t

[Romulox]

227. This is now just basic trolling. nt

[Beetwasher]

229. No, It's Ridicule For Someone Who Deserves It For Supreme Dishonesty

No go and alert me and run away, boy.

[Romulox]

230. "Supreme Dishonesty" (capitalized and everything!)? Lololol. Enough with you. nt

[Beetwasher]

231. Yes, Run Away! Run Away!

:rofl:

Buh bye, Cupcake.

[Romulox]

195. PS: Rah rah rah. We get it. nt

[Beetwasher]

197. PS: WHINE!

Thanks for making my point.

[Romulox]

145. Yes. The article states they will still get their bonuses AND pensions.

This is a shell game, in other words.

[Engineer4Obama]

92. Yeah Green Screen Mcain he's my favorite!

[spoony]

99. Good move.

Definitely a positive step so kudos to Obama.

But none to you, OP, for trying to further divide and label DUers.

[Divine Discontent]

107. amen. I read that "cue" line & thought, well, that's immature to post

some just have no tact, and wouldn't know what it means to reserve their whine until someone actually says "big deal" about the story.

And ultimately, though this is a good thing indeed, it says they get what they're losing in cash salary in the form of stock options that they must wait to cash in.

[jimlup]

108. I think this plays well on Mainstreet

I for one am absolutely pissed off to the point of absolute disgust towards these financial vampire CEO's. It is time to trim their salaries - hell it may be time to TAR and FEATHER them.

No matter what the right wing anti-Obama machine says this plays in Obama's favor with the voters.

[Name removed]

112. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beetwasher]

113. Live One Here

Have at it peeps! It's begging for a bruising.

[druidity33]

115. already gone! nt.

[SpartanDem]

114. Let Obama's work speak for itself

no need to taunt

[Beetwasher]

116. Maybe No "Need"

But it sure is fun. Sue me.

[JNelson6563]

117. Bravo Mr. President!

Thanks for the update Beetwasher. :hi:

Julie

[donheld]

118. Great job

[Lilith Velkor]

119. Awesome!

[Romulox]

121. More taxpayer $$$ for bonuses, plus stock options instead of cash. BFD.

The plan will also change the form of the pay to align the personal interests of the executives with the longer-term financial health of the companies. For instance, the cash portion of the executives’ salaries will be slashed on average by 90 percent, and the rest will be replaced by stock that cannot be sold for years.

But while the plan would pare compensation substantially from what the highest-paid people at the companies might have received under normal circumstances, it would still permit multimillion-dollar pay packages.


-snip-

Some bonuses previously promised will be paid in the coming year, and it is not clear how much of those will be awarded.

(emphasis mine, to cut through all the misdirection)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/22/business/22pay.html?_r=1&hp

[vaberella]

126. Stocks drop, when they do people have been known to suffer.

I say put them in stock---there's no gurantee they'll do well.

[Romulox]

144. OK, but this isn't really a pay cut at all. He's forcing to accept stock instead of cash.

And the misdirection: the Obama admin is going to go to bat again to defend the second round of taxpayer funded bonuses in his 9 month administration. :hi:

[GOTV]

168. This is how the exec's interests are put in line with the long term good of the company ...

... it's a good thing isn't it?

[Romulox]

185. What's it's NOT is a 90% pay cut.

:hi:

[GOTV]

186. Right. The 90% only applies to salary - often the smaller part of exec compensation

[Romulox]

187. The NYTimes story reports that foregone salary will still be paid-- just as stock options.

Which is not to disagree with your point.


"The plan will also change the form of the pay to align the personal interests of the executives with the longer-term financial health of the companies. For instance, the cash portion of the executives’ salaries will be slashed on average by 90 percent, and the rest will be replaced by stock that cannot be sold for years. "

[eridani]

124. Excellent! Hope he doesn't back down n/t

[GOTV]

169. That's the question. We're celebrating before a single thing has been done ....

.... not a single executive has actually had their pay altered by this statement yet.

There's lots of time for this plan to be softened while the media is occupied with other things.

[jeanpalmer]

125. While the banks are stealing billions from us

This really is insignificant. It amounts to nothing.

[Anakin Skywalker]

127. ABOUT DAMN TIME! A$$hole Execs Make Way Too Much

already. Most of them are FAILURES and that's why we are in this mess. These $cumbags don't need anymore $100,000+ cars or McMansions.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

128. YEAHHHH!!!

GOBama!

I knew he'd come up with some way to face the obscene greed-- he wasn't just talking. He just can't do everything instantaneously.

[Enthusiast]

129. I would rather have REAL

and strict regulations placed on the financial services industry. No, fuck that, how about we just restore Glass-Steagal and break up these 'too big to fail' corporations.

I fear this measure by the Obama Administration is just so we take our eyes off the real ball, the ball of REAL regulatory change with TEETH and an enforcement mechanism. I will believe it when I see it.

[Kermitt Gribble]

133. I rec'd your post

despite your last couple of imbecilic lines:

"Cue the Obama basher/whiners.

"That's not change we can believe in...errr...*gulp*".

You're post is good news, don't be a moran.

[Beetwasher]

151. Tough Shit

I'll post whatever the fuck I want.

Thanks for the rec, Chester!

[scentopine]

134. LOL! A grand total of 25 people...

If we can order their pay to be cut, we can order their pay to be cut to zero by firing the sons of bitches and taking over their company. They failed in their job and this failure led to a worldwide disaster. They should be removed and aggressively investigated for crimes. This would be reason to celebrate.

[LynneSin]

135. Remember this program developed under the Bush admin - we gave them a year

Now Obama is in charge - don't fuck with him!

[info being]

138. I still see a few too many "wills" in there to celebrate anything

[quantass]

143. Good News Yes...(BUT)...I'm still very skeptical over O's Financial Regulation abilities / foresight

[Jakes Progress]

146. Nice move. nt

[Vidar]

150. Excellent. Recommended.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

157. Holy executive pay cuts Batman!

[DireStrike]

165. :O

Wow. Wow wow wow. I will be shocked if it goes through, but WOW.


WOW!!! <--justified use of 3 exclamation points

(These are good wows.)

[GOTV]

174. Shouldn't you be thanking the whiners for pushing Obama towards moves like these?

He wouldn't be doing this if the only thing he heard was cheering since his election.

[Beetwasher]

178. No

"He wouldn't be doing this if the only thing he heard was cheering since his election."

Says you.

[bdamomma]

177. good, make them work for their money, we have.

[ehrnst]

199. Cue the Glenn Becks and others to defend these poor defenseless millionares...(nt)

[Stumbler]

202. Avoid trying to cap compensation, it's a losing strategy

For real reform, repeal the Reagan tax-cuts. That'll effect everyone who's caused these problems, without giving ammo to the RW nuts who'll claim Obama's government is taking over the private sector. Besides, we already know they're bitching about high taxes already, so let's give 'em something real to bitch about.

[defendandprotect]

220. CHEERS FOR OBAMA ... What can we all do to help him?

Presume keep writing and calling -- I will also be trying to support Dems -- like
Franken with contributions -- and others who aren't Blue Dogs or DLC--!!!

Basically, we need to immediately re-regulate capitalism . . . unless we want to have
them have the ability to pull us down into a hole like this AGAIN!!

Re-regulate them out of business --

This is treachery, treason they've pulled -- the corporate-military also needs to be
severely reigned in -- but they're one and all bankrupting the Treasury and running off
with the loot!

Leaving behind only human destruction!!!

[Romulox]

237. "New rules cost GM's Henderson cash but may hike his pay"

Henderson’s total compensation package will increase to about $5.5 million under terms of the pay plan, a person familiar with the documents said.

Henderson’s cash salary, which was $1.26 million, is being decreased by 25% to $950,000. He will receive stock and restricted stock in GM valued at about $4.2 million.

http://freep.com/article/20091022/BUSINESS01/91022070/1319/New-rules-cost-GM-s-Henderson-cash-but-may-hike-his-pay

Awesome! :eyes:

[Beetwasher]

Bullshit

“He’s getting less cash and the other stuff that he’s getting may or may not pay out, and if it does pay out, it will pay out over a period of years,” she said.


May or may not. Guess you don't read so well. What a surprise.

Yeah, stock options can go up, IF you MAKE THE COMPANY SUCCESSFUL. I have no problems w/ paying w/ stock options. It makes you more invested and responsible for the success and health of the company.

[Romulox]

240. LOL. Now you want the Detroit Free Press silenced?

The only part of that post that wasn't a verbatim quote was "Awesome! :eyes: "

[Beetwasher]

241. Umm, Who Said Anything About Silencing Anyone, Chester??? What Dishonest Fucking Bullshit

Why do you lie so much? I mean yes, you're full of shit, but at least try to be more subtle about it.

You didn't post the key part that said "may or may not". Wonder why that is. Oh, it's because you're dishonest and would like to spin this to support your whining when it doesn't.

[Romulox]

242. It's a verbatim quote from the Fee Press. No more clown dancing with you. nt

[Beetwasher]

244. So You Admit You're A C lown? Ok Then!

I thought context was important to you:

Julie Gibson, a GM spokeswoman, cautioned against looking at Henderson’s compensation package as an increase, saying it “may” increase.


“He’s getting less cash and the other stuff that he’s getting may or may not pay out, and if it does pay out, it will pay out over a period of years,” she said.


Gee, what a fucking surprise. You left those sentences out. And gee, stock options may or may not go up in price. Amazing. :eyes:

Man, such dishonest bullshit and cherry picking. Tsk tsk. At least you admit you're a clown. Now DANCE clown! Dance! :rofl:

[Beetwasher]

238. Delete

[Romulox]

243. "Henderson’s total compensation package will INCREASE to about $5.5 million...."

Hmmm, didn't I mention this possibility upthread, only to be accosted with the most juvenile and crass insults? :shrug:

http://freep.com/article/20091022/BUSINESS01/91022070/1319/New-rules-cost-GM-s-Henderson-cash-but-may-hike-his-pay

[Beetwasher]

245. "May or may not"

Why do you dishonestly leave that out. It's stock options, Einstein. They go up, they go down. He has to perform and make the company successful. I got no problems w/ that.



Henderson’s total compensation package will increase to about $5.5 million under terms of the pay plan, a person familiar with the documents said.


Henderson’s cash salary, which was $1.26 million, is being decreased by 25% to $950,000. He will receive stock and restricted stock in GM valued at about $4.2 million.


Julie Gibson, a GM spokeswoman, cautioned against looking at Henderson’s compensation package as an increase, saying it “may” increase.


“He’s getting less cash and the other stuff that he’s getting may or may not pay out, and if it does pay out, it will pay out over a period of years,” she said.

[Romulox]

246. Stock options have a present value. That's my last comment to you. nt

[Beetwasher]

247. Yup, And Right Now GM's Stock Is Pretty Fucking Shitty

And you'll notice they don't say his options would CURRENTLY be valued at that figure, do they? I wonder why THAT is?

Now dance clown! Dance! And then run away! :rofl:

[Romulox]

249. Fritz Henderson was GM's Chief Financial Officer (CFO) from 2006 to GM's collapse, btw.

Just so everyone understands the kind of "talent" in question! :hi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Henderson

[Beetwasher]

251. Well Then, He Better Peform Now Or His Stock Options Will CONTINUE To Be Worthless

Just so everyone understands that's how stock options work, since this poster seems to be clueless about that and pushing bullshit spin.

[NYC_SKP]

253. Corporatist...

Or so some say... :eyes:

[johnaries]

254. But..., but..., isn't that *gasp* Socialist?

:rofl: