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To understand the Obama presidency it helps to read, "The Hidden Hand Presidency" on Eisenhower

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 07:57 AM
Original message
To understand the Obama presidency it helps to read, "The Hidden Hand Presidency" on Eisenhower
Edited on Wed Oct-28-09 08:03 AM by HamdenRice
I would bet dollars to donuts that Obama has read this book also. It was required reading for many American history and political science courses around the time Obama was in school, and would have been a footnote staple during the years that he taught at University of Chicago Law School. The book, published in 1982, had a profound effect on how political scientists viewed the exercise of political power. Obama is notorious for the level of intellectual preparation for various tasks, and frankly it's hard to imagine he has not read this book, one of the most well known in the political science cannon, in order to prepare for the presidency.

The legend of the book is that the author, Princeton professor Fred Greenstein, started out writing a book about presidential leadership, and decided to check Eisenhower's presidential papers to confirm the dominant view that Eisenhower was a detached president, who exercised little leadership, was already quite old when elected, and seemed primarily occupied with playing golf while his powerful cabinet members ran the government. Eisenhower was supposed to be something of a footnote on the absence of presidential leadership.

Greenstein, getting access to newly released archival records, was shocked that the dominant view of Eisenhower's presidency was basically wrong. Eisenhower was running the government with military efficiency and centralization, but he did not want to seem to be running the government -- hence the title, "Hidden Hand Presidency."

Some presidents are detached from the exercise of power and making decisions, like Reagan and Bush II. Some presidents exercise presidential power and want to be seen as exercising presidential power, like Clinton, Carter, Johnson and Nixon.

Greenstein discovered that Eisenhower had developed a unique third way style -- the president who exercises political power, but wants the public to believe that others are exercising that power so that he appears to be "above politics." Publicly committing presidential prestige to certain policies can help those policies get enacted; but if those policies fail, then presidential prestige is irreparably damaged, and then the president can't get other policies enacted. (That was the sad lesson of the Clinton presidency from day one.) Hence the development by Eisenhower of a behind the scenes form of presidential power.

It seems to me that this form of presidential politics describes Obama's style. He has pretty much told us that this was his style -- that he wants to be above partisan politics (or at least be seen to be above partisan politics, even if he isn't). It seems to me that Obama is slowly but surely getting his agenda enacted even if he doesn't seem to be publicly staking his prestige on those priorities.

There are drawbacks to a "hidden hand presidential" style; one is that many voters want the president to not only get things done, but to be seen to be exercising power and prestige to get things done. For example, I've read a lot on the liberal blogosphere about how President Obama isn't publicly leading on health care reform, but claiming that it is Congress's job to deliver a bill to him. It's as though, even if we get health care reform with a strong public option, a certain part of the public will be disappointed that Obama didn't accomplish this goal by charging in and arm twisting the way Lyndon Johnson might have.

But the goal is health care reform; not the image of the president accomplishing health care reform.

A "Hidden Hand" president tends not to take strong moral stances in public, and Eisenhower's style made his commitment to civil rights muted. Many progressives consider Eisenhower a hero for his speech about the "military industrial complex," but it's important to keep in mind that Eisenhower never uttered a word about the military industrial complex until he was about to leave office -- despite the fact that he presumably developed these views because of conflicts with the military during the Korean War, the nuclear competition with the Soviets (see especially theories about the U-2 incident), and the attempt to begin disarmament as the Korean War wound down.

The Iraq war is ending, and it's pretty clear even from mainstream media coverage that Obama faced tremendous opposition from the military and securocrats to end it; but publicly, it just looks like he is following an pre-existing time table to end the war. Moreover, the administration is ending the Iraq war without making any ringing speeches about how immoral and strategically foolish the war was, even though from Obama's writings and campaign speeches, it's pretty clear that that is what he believes.

It's pretty amazing how much is getting done in so many areas without any fanfare or public taking of credit by the White House.

Here is an oddly prescient description of the Obama presidency, even though it is actually a summary of Greenfield's theory of Eisenhower's "Hidden Hand" leadership style:

http://www.answers.com/topic/hidden-hand-presidency

The “hidden-hand Presidency” was the term used by Princeton political scientist Fred Greenstein to describe the Presidency of Dwight David Eisenhower. During his term most historians and political scientists viewed Eisenhower as a political amateur who reigned but did not rule. “This man neither liked the game he was engaged in nor had gained much understanding of its rules,” argued political scientist Richard Neustadt in 1960.
...

Greenstein concluded that Eisenhower was actually a sophisticated politician who had honed his grasp of politics while in the army. During World War II he had to smooth over disputes among Allied officers of several nations, and he eventually worked closely with three world statesmen: U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, French Resistance leader Charles de Gaulle, and British prime minister Winston Churchill.

Greenstein argued that Eisenhower played politics the way he played poker: with a “hidden hand” that was much better than his opponents realized. There were five facets to Eisenhower's approach to politics. First, he was a skillful politician who chose not to let others realize that fact. He camouflaged his participation in politics by relying on others to take a partisan role while he himself played the role of “President of all the people.” His adversaries would underestimate him as a politician, but the American people would support him for being “above politics.” Yet in reality Eisenhower was extensively involved in Republican party politics. Second, Eisenhower often used language that was deliberately ambiguous or spoke in an evasive, noncommittal, or seemingly confused way. This tactic enabled him to avoid taking unpopular positions on controversial issues, but it also led his adversaries to underestimate him. Third, Eisenhower avoided dealing in personalities. He never attacked anyone else's motives or made statements that would convert his political adversaries into bitter enemies. He often masked his own negative feelings about those with whom he had to work—including leading members of Congress of his own party—in order to stay on friendly terms with them. Maintaining his image as a genial leader also contributed to Eisenhower's popularity. Fourth, Eisenhower had a keen grasp of psychology: he could step into other people's shoes in order to understand how they viewed the world. He always tried to know what his adversaries were thinking before he engaged them in a controversy. And he tried to think of ways to bring them over to his side. Finally, Eisenhower gave his subordinates important assignments but never lost control of policy. He would share credit for success with subordinates but would let them take most of the blame for the failures, disassociating himself from them when necessary to preserve his own position as a statesman in the eyes of the American people.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nice piece.
As Supreme Allied Commander in WWII, Ike had a mandate the minute he decided to run for office. My folks told me he would have been elected as either a Republican or a Democrat.

He was wise to maintain that sense of non-partisanship throughout his presidency. I'd like to delve into this a little more - thanks for the references.

K&R
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Thanks for the compliment! nt
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. I have a question....Who is Greenfield? Your posts names Greenfield,but it could be a typo.
I think your post is amazing and well put together. You make me want to study American political history instead of Asiatic history for my doctorate. I bookmarked this so I can get the book.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Sorry, typo -- it should be Greenstein throughout! nt
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. That may work for day-to-day affairs...
but when there's a leadership vacuum on a key issue (*cough* healthcare *cough*), a good leader will step in.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. you are assuming he hasn't.
maybe you didn't comprehend what the post was about. it is about a leadership style that is subtle. that gets things done without looking like you are doing anything.
obama is a great poker player, too. lots of people getting bluffed here.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. If the public doesn't know, then he hasn't.
My point is that one leadership style may work best for one set of conditions, and another for another. Great leaders know when to change it up.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. says you
is i guess all i can say to that. you are entitled to your opinion. just try not to lose sight of the fact that it is only an opinion.
in the meantime, i think you might want to reread the op. seems to have gone over your head.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I never presented it as anything but my opinion
in reaction to the opinion stated in the OP. This is a message board. That's what we do here.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. You're demonstrating exactly what the OP is about
When you say:

"If the public doesn't know, then he hasn't. "

You are saying that his appearing to lead is more important to you than his delivering.

That's the whole point. There is a class of politicians (Eisenhower, Obama) who have decided it is more important to deliver than to be seen to be delivering.

You're entitled to your opinion, but it is curious.

Serious hypothetical question: would you rather a president take a courageous, public, bully pulpit position on an issue and lose; or take a stealth position and win?

I'm not trying to be critical here, because I can see the other side -- which is that sometimes it's better for the president to educate the public than to deliver the goods.

That's kind of what Teddy Roosevelt did in his later years.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. False dichotomy. Both approaches are effective...
Depending on the personality of the leader, and what the environment and objective really are.

This is a version of the classic bottom-up versus top-down approach. You can't do bottom-up without engaging the public directly. You have to do top-down in a more understated manner, or you'll come off like a dictator. There's usually a trade-off. Working behind the scenes has its advantages - I never disputed that. But unlike Ike's time, Obama comes at a time when trust and transparency is at a premium with the public. Again, I'm not saying Obama doesn't try to earn that trust, or he's not honest with the people - but a more forceful approach to KEY issues could be what pushes Congress in the right direction. Mobilizing the people on the ground is what got him elected, no? It's not an automatic losing strategy as you suggest.

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. I realize it's a false dichotomy. That's why I asked it hypothetically.
Hypotheticals are often unrealistic questions designed to understand the questionee's position better.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Nope. A great leader knows never to show their hand and talk to their people.
Obama has done both, quite successfully.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
35. then we should assume that the piece of crap we're getting
vis a vis healthcare is what Obama wants.
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rucognizant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 03:12 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. It
isn't a done deal yet! What is it that we have got presently? Nothing.....
Fat Lady isn't singing!
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. you can assume that he was the leader. if you think that means he gets
everything he wants, you need to revisit the 8th grade for a civics lesson.
still, i predict that when the process is done, it wont be a piece of crap.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I think we're going to get exactly what he wants
a mandate for the insurance industry and a watered down public option barely worth the name...

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. absolutely! we were sold out in those secret meetings with the big boys of the health industry! eom
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. that
is a different thread.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. I was one of the people who thought of Ike as a do nothing president.
However, as a farmer's daughter I should be a bit honest - Ike got farmers and a few other people included in Social Security that had not been included originally.

Also we were small farmers caught in the move to bigger and better farming! We were too little and failed so our family was not happy with him. It never occurred to me that his administration were actually trying to accomplish the change in farming from small to big. It is ironic that today we wish we had more small local farms.

I like this article and think it may well be the style President Obama is using. We will see. One thing Ike never had to deal with tea baggers - he was white.
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ike was a much smarter man and skilled politician then many gave him credit for.
He was also the last Republican President I had any respect for.
Obama does remind me of Ike in many ways.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
43. see my post #24..Ike was a general..he saw war first hand and he was still fucked over by the shadow
Edited on Thu Oct-29-09 10:13 AM by flyarm
government of Allen Dulles..and friends..Truman warned about it less than a month after Kennedy was killed..and Ike left with a serious warning to Kennedy..and to the American people...Obama is no Ike!

not even close!


from one of my other posts...

President Harry Truman wrote and published in Wash Post dec 21, 1963 after Kennedy murdered:
Edited on Thu Oct-29-09 12:27 AM by flyarm
" For some time I have been disturbed by the way the CIA has been diverted from it's original assignment.It has become an operational and at times a policy -making arm of the government...I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA that it would be injected into peacetime cloak- and - dagger operations. Some of the complications and embarrassment that I think we have experienced are in part attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President has been so removed from it's intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigue and a subject for cold war enemy propaganda."

" truman was disturbed by the events of the past ninety days , those ominous days of October, November, and december 1963. Men all over the world were disturbed by those events. Few men could have judged them with more wisdom than Harry S. Truman, for it was he who < in Late 1947 , had signed unto law the national Security Act. This Act, in addition to establishing the Department of Defense with a single Secretary at its head and with three equal and independent services- the Army, Navy and Air Force- also provided for a National Security Council and the Central Intelligence Agency."

from : " The Secret Team " BY L. FLETCHER PROUTY
THE CIA AND ITS ALLIES IN CONTROL OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE WORLD

I BELIEVE THIS IS WHAT COL WILKERSON IS DISCUSSING AS WELL..AND ALLEN DULLES........

AGAIN FROM "The Secret Team" By L. FLETCHER PROUTY

Eisenhower..and how he was fucked over by the CIA and Allen Dulles and the CIA and how he had to take responsibility when he was fucked over by the CIA and the shadow government or the Secret team..page 35:

" When President Eisenhower accepted the responsibility for the U-2 flights over the Soviet Union, no one would have questioned that he did this for correct and honorable reasons.National Aeronautics and Space Administrator (NASA) Keith Glenman had already made a public statement that the U-2 was operating out of Turkey as a NASA high-altitude, flight -research aircraft and had strayed over Russian territory inadvertently in high winds. Then Nikita Khrushchev produced the wreckage of the U-2 deep in Russia near Sverdlovsk, it made a mockery of the NASAcover story, and when he produced the pilot alive and well, it demolished the rest of the plausible disclaimer. The CIA was caught without a plausible cover story, and the President had to choose.He could either discredit Allen Dulles and the CIA for operating that clandestine flight and a long series of flights without his knowledge, or he could, as Eisenhower did stand up and take the blame himself on the basis that he knew of and had ordered the flights and was in complete control of everything done in the foriegn arena by this Government. The latter choice would mean that the President of the United States is Commander in Chief during peacetime clandestine operations as he is in time of war. This is a totally new doctrine born of the vicissitudes of the Cold War."

"many have considered this a very noble stand on the part of President Eisenhower, and it was. However, this public admission by the Chief of State that he directed clandestine operations within another state is exactly the type of thing that reduces the prestige and credibility of the United States in the family of nations to the condition described by Arnold Toynbee. Interference in the internal affairs of one nation by another is an unpardonable violation of International law and custom."

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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. Thanks for the Truman quote, but there's a different interpretation of the U2
Edited on Thu Oct-29-09 11:46 AM by HamdenRice
It's that Eisenhower was aware of the U-2 missions and authorized them in order to prove that the Soviets DID NOT HAVE the number of missiles the military was claiming they had.

Under this CIA control theory, the CIA leaked information to the Soviets that enabled them to shoot down the U-2, to scuttle an upcoming US-Soviet conference.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah, but I think that theory really only applies to Congress...
.... which obviously covers a lot of stuff. :)

There are two key factors that dictate this. The first being we've elected a professor of Constitutional law. I dont know what President Cheney did in HIS early days, but I dont think teaching Constitutional law was it. If we call some of the wingnuts "10thers" I think we could safely refer to the President as an "Article 1er" in reference to the Constitution's direction that the Congress is the legislative body, not the President.

But the OTHER key reason for this is his fundamental desire to want to bring all sides to the table, get everyone's input and try to come to a consensus. Sure, that means that fighting this health care "battle" isn't always fun .... but it is the very reason he's raising the country in the eyes of the world again and perhaps one of, if not THE, reason he was elected to begin with.

Either way, I'll take it.
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HopeOverFear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
13. Excellent piece
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
15. Yup, Been Saying For A While O's Getting Stuff Done Behind The Scenes
And giving others credit.

Another plus for this is he can spread some of the political capital around by letting others bask in the glory and get the accolades for various accomplishments and hiding the size of his actual role.

For example, if it looks like Reid and Pelosi were the big fighters for HCR and were the one's that got it done, that would be a boon for Dems going into the mid terms.
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msallied Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. Fantastic piece, and I agree.
And I have always believed this. I think Pres. Obama is a much smarter man and politician than many people (and many here) have given him credit for. They never had faith in his ability to win the election when he did following one of the most brilliant campaigns in history. When that wasn't enough, they continue to lack faith in his ability to govern even though it's clear that he's doing that rather brilliantly as well.

If anything, it speaks less about the President than it does about them and their desire complain eternally.
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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
17. Fascinating! Thank you so much for sharing! A great find.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
18. And excellent post.
Thank you so much. I was unaware of this book, and your thesis goes a long way towards explaining the Obama approach.
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. Good book
Read it many years ago and found it to be very informative.
This approach also works well in business.
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CakeGrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
22. Good read. It explains the misperception that he's "not a real leader"
Edited on Wed Oct-28-09 03:17 PM by CakeGrrl
or seen as not really doing enough, while I'm sure a lot of the things that people are complaining aren't done yet will come to pass or will see significant progress by the time his first term is up.

And the fool pundits will wonder how it was done.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
23. America needs a leader to stand up to the corporate powers that be...

Not a hand's off President that leaves everyone forever guessing what he stands for or against.

The country DESPERATELY needs leadership. Currently, there is NO strong public option in any of the legislation. None. At best, 10% of the country will get it in about 7 years. Obama outlined in his speech about health care about he has no desire to put the health insurance companies out of business, and the plan he outlined was basically mandating the corrupt & broken private insurance mob scheme as national law.

Obama has made a choice. He could have capitalized on his huge movement for change and gone up against the status quo utlilizing the American people as the grassroots wingmen for real policy change.

He did not do that. Instead, he has chosen to govern within the broken framework and try to keep the house of cards from completely and totally collapsing.

Obama's agenda appears to be maintaining the status quo and not fighting the fights that need to be fought.

He needs to be following FDR, forget Eisenhower.

This is a time in American history that demands bold leadership.
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Baltoman991 Donating Member (869 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Wrong!!!
"Obama's agenda appears to be maintaining the status quo and not fighting the fights that need to be fought"

Again, you don't know what he's fighting for. You're basing it on your low opinion of the man and you're wrong.

The man is fighting for what needs to be done. Because you don't approve of the way he's going about it doesn't mean he's not doing it.

Perhaps one day you'll get over you hatred of all things Obama and see the man cares and wants what you want. Until then you'll continue to make the inane remarks such as the one I outlined above.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. What is he fighting for? Private insurance mandates - Whopee!


Reappointing Ben Bernacke...and keeping Timothy Geithner as Treasury Secretary - WoW!

I voted for Obama. I campaigned for Obama. I blogged for Obama. He was my last choice before McCain, but when he was the nominee, I did what I could to elect him. And, my fears about him have turned out to be justified.

And, I am pissed at the corporate sell out he has proven to be....

Back room meetings with big pharm and deal making so they can continue to charge mob rates for their drugs.

You and I, we obviously differ on what needs to be done. And, that is fine. But, my complaints aren't about Obama the man, they are about Obama the President, and they are not just randomn or petty things.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
24. ahh you need to read , "THE SECRET TEAM" BY L. FLETCHER PROUTY
Edited on Wed Oct-28-09 05:15 PM by flyarm
lots of discussion about Eisenhower..and how he was fucked over by the CIA and Allen Dulles and the CIA and how he had to take responsibility when he was fucked over by the CIA and the shadow government or the Secret team..page 35:

" When President Eisenhower accepted the responsibility for the U-2 flights over the Soviet Union, no one would have questioned that he did this for correct and honorable reasons.National Aeronautics and Space Administrator (NASA) Keith Glenman had already made a public statement that the U-2 was operating out of Turkey as a NASA high-altitude, flight -research aircraft and had strayed over Russian territory inadvertently in high winds. Then Nikita Khrushchev produced the wreckage of the U-2 deep in Russia near Sverdlovsk, it made a mockery of the NASAcover story, and when he produced the pilot alive and well, it demolished the rest of the plausible disclaimer. The CIA was caught without a plausible cover story, and the President had to choose.He could either discredit Allen Dulles and the CIA for operating that clandestine flight and a long series of flights without his knowledge, or he could, as Eisenhower did stand up and take the blame himself on the basis that he knew of and had ordered the flights and was in complete control of everything done in the foriegn arena by this Government. The latter choice would mean that the President of the United States is Commander in Chief during peacetime clandestine operations as he is in time of war. This is a totally new doctrine born of the vicissitudes of the Cold War."

"many have considered this a very noble stand on the part of President Eisenhower, and it was. However, this public admission by the Chief of State that he directed clandestine operations within another state is exactly the type of thing that reduces the prestige and credibility of the United States in the family of nations to the condition described by Arnold Toynbee. Interference in the internal affairs of one nation by another is an unpardonable violation of International law and custom."

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

let us not forget, that Eisenhower was a GENERAL in a war.... Obama has not ever seen a uniform on his body.

If Eisenhower could be fucked by the CIA and the likes of Allen Dulles and the shadow government run under Dulles and the ilk like him....what makes you think the shadow government.. does not or could not.. have control of Obama..with little ,to no experience?

To equate him to Eisenhower is an utter joke!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

this was posted before Obama Was elected President, here at Du , it was posted about Bush..and it is about Bush..but what is said here about Eisenhower, still stands..Obama does not know war, he can not understand war..he never even served in our military..he has never stood and watched another soldier die in war...please do not equate him to Eisenhower. That is an insult to every soldier who ever served this nation..Eisenhower warned about the Military Industrial Complex, because he experienced it first hand!

"He is the President who does not feel."


The Unfeeling President
http://evilqueen.demesnes.net/mp3/e_l_doct...

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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Yes. "The President who does not feel"...
One could argue this piece is applicable to BOTH G.W. AND Obama. The similiarities are startling and IMO, quite revealing.

Responding to the OP, why is it so important for Obama to be likened and compared to a noted historical figure? Is everyday Halloween for this President? How many "costumes" do we have to dress this man in? Honestly, if one accomplishes great things there is no need to "name drop" or use another man's name/achievements to justify one's relevance. It simply is what it is and the achievement stands on its own. First it was Lincoln...then it was FDR. Let's not forget Kennedy. Now Eisenhower? Geez...perhaps Obama's accomplishments could stand on their own...if there were any to compare/contrast or celebrate.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. Interesting read, but it's much more
simple than that. To understand the Obama presidency, all you need to do is read his two books, and Renegade by Richard Wolfe. It's all there. This is exactly the same man, the same vision and the same way of thinking. Anyone who expected anything else, clearly wasn't paying enough attention during the campaign.
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pmorlan1 Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. Hidden hand is well hidden on some issues
I wish he'd use his "hidden hand" to help reveal, not conceal what occurred with the Bush "war on terror" programs. I also wish he'd use his "hidden hand" to stop his administration from following in the Bush administration footsteps on so many important civil liberties issues.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Amen.
"Hidden Hand" seems to fit into the "furthering/protecting G.W's agenda"...

What a bunch of baloney. Actions speak louder than words.
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dolphindance Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Yeah, that's the ONE thing average americans care about when they wake up. (eom)
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humbled_opinion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
32. He can hide his hand all he wants....
but if that hand takes a pen and signs healthcare legislation that does not have a strong public option or a much preferred Single Payer medicare program in it then he has destroyed his Presidency as far as I am concerned.

There is a time to be a leader and that time is now. Stand up take control of this issue and tell us what you are going to do for us.

He cannot sit there and sign a law that mandates, insurance on the people, and then give them no recourse but to buy it from the same corporations that have been screwing us since their inception.

I don't care if he fixes some of the snags in health insurance like pre-existing conditons, or drop provisions thats all good; I think every legislator wants that to happen, but you cannot come here and force me to buy into insurance which is going to cost me on one hand to purchase it and then again on the other hand through tax increases to keep it going i.e., medicare tax.

I hear very little talk about increasing the number of doctors, nurses, medical staff but somehow we are going to add 40+ million more people to the heatlhcare rolls. I hear no talk about making employers pony up instead they talk about fines what is that what if the cost of the insurance option is greater then the fine which one will my employer take?

What if my small business employer can't afford to pay health care costs for employees unless he lets one or two of us go?

I need to hear talk about forcing employers to increase wages so people will be able to buy into any of the plans that are being discussed i.e., even a public option is going to come with a cost.

The way the legislation looks now its a serious mess and the people that are going to get screwed the most are average working class people.

You take medicare tax from my pay now... graduate that on bell curve to the highest earners and give us all MEDICARE that is really the only viable solution.

Democrats will get beat over the head with this issue for a generation unless we get on top of it, so now is not the time for a hidden hand now is the time for action....

My patience is wearing quite thin.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
33. Excellent OP. n/t
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-28-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
36. kick and recommend
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
37. K&R nt
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-29-09 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
40. This makes for enlightening reading. Thanks.
Too late to Rec, but :kick:

Hekate

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