so we almost got big pharma whore evan bayh as vp--and this was a consideration of the man who ran

[niyad]

on serious health care reform? according to the new book by plouffe, he was one of three on the short list-- gov kaine out because no foreign policy experience (and bayh has how much??)

it is fascinating to me that all the concentration about this book is on how HRC almost was considered for the vp post--and nothing on the fact that obama, supposedly committed to health care reform, was seriously considering a man completely in bed with big pharma. gee, and we wonder why he threw out single payer from the beginning, and basically did nothing to support even the pathetic so-called "public option."


more disappointment, less hope.

[Cha]

1. You're whining for "what ifs"..

President Obama and VP Biden are doing an amazing job.:patriot::patriot:

[niyad]

4. your relentless cheerleading is duly noted.

guess I know where the unrec came from.

hate to tell you this, but a lot of us are not wearing rose-coloured glasses, nor do we have our fingers in our ears. we are paying attention. it's something I highly recommend.

[msallied]

7. You're a relentless rhethorical whiner.

Ooh, he "ALMOST" picked a VP candidate who works for Big Pharma! And I ask you, so effing what? HE DIDN'T PICK HIM!

On the long list of things you whiners keep blathering on about, you pick this weak crap?

[niyad]

12. why, because I refuse to cheerlead for things I know are wrong? blind loyalty is wrong

no matter which side exhibits it.

and, "weak crap" it may be to you, but the fact that this turncoat was even under consideration is a serious indication that one needs to look seriously at what was supposed to be a serious commitment to health care reform.

[msallied]

18. Why do you assume that health care reform, one way or another, had anything to do

with him even being under consideration. Oh, it couldn't possibly have to do with the fact that Bayh had been vying for a VP spot for several for several years, was from a state that was possibly swinging blue around the time Obama was forming his list, and that Obama was simply throwing the man a bone. There are FAR more politics involved in these things than you care to consider.

[John Q. Citizen]

19. Don't worry. It just proves than humans are human. The repos couldn't find anything wrong with bush

many Dems will be the same exact way now that we have a Dem in.

Shows there isn't as much difference between Dems and Repos as some people want to believe there is. They are all people and they basically act in very similar ways. They see the world as a big high school football game and you never ever want to dis the hometeam coach, no matter how fucked up their health care insurance industry connections are. :)

[msallied]

21. Simplistic.

Meanwhile, you try to find everything wrong about a situation, even going so far as to use completely hypothetical situations as support for your doom and gloom outlook. You want to compare this to a high school football game? You're like the miserable goth kids who sit high up in the bleachers and boo the entire sport as "conformist." :eyes:

[dionysus]

32. ROFL @ the goth analogy. i think it's more like the new emo kids...

[ej510]

36. Which is why most voters are independent.

[John Q. Citizen]

39. Good point.

[dionysus]

31. you're the flip side of the coin as a "cheerleader" as you so fondly say. you're a Failer.

so in your world it's okay to ceaselessly complain but supporting is bad. hookay...
:shrug:

[niyad]

50. that is such complete crap--and a stupid dualism--one does not have to be either

a cheerleader or a failer--it isn't an either-or proposition. one can look at things honestly, question everything, even, heaven forfend, disagree on occasion.

I feel sorry for you for seeing the world in such simplistic, dualistic terms.

[Teaser]

64. yep. total failer, this one

.

[Cha]

16. Gawd Damn right..I'm cheering my President and Vice President

on to a very successful 8 years!

[niyad]

52. does that mean supporting them unquestioningly, even when they are wrong?

if so, that is no different than the uncritical, unquestioning support of the bushies, and just as dangerous.

[treestar]

55. Perhaps

I'll stop cheerleading when they want to bomb Iran or gut the bill of rights - see no signs of that and don't expect it.

I'll cheer them on to any health care reform they can manage to pull out of the Congress we have now.

Obama was not "wrong" on his VP pick after all. McDope was.

[niyad]

69. so, tell me how you feel about this little tidbit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4124674

[niyad]

77. crickets, as expected

[Hutzpa]

48. Did you say cheerleading?

I'm here too, now what?? and I topped that with an unrec and as Cha rightly said, whining on
what ifs helps no one.

Maybe you should try paying attention more closely, it might help prevent you from starting an
irrelevant thread.

[niyad]

53. "if you aren't outraged, you arent' paying attention" guess that says where you stand

so nice of you to tell me what is and isn't relevant. must be sure to keep your opinions in mind at all times.

the fact that plouffe's book is just now coming out, and that this information is part of it, hardly makes it irrelevant.

[Hutzpa]

61. What is there to be outraged about???

On Evan 'The Weasel' Bayh being turned down for VP which would have been a disaster,
as he is showing in the Senate.

[niyad]

79. crickets, as expected

[niyad]

70. so tell me how you feel about this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4124674

[brentspeak]

41. Obama's doing an amazing job for Goldman Sachs and the insurance co's

and the DLC whores (who are given at least 4 years of White House power/access), and K-Street, and...

[Teaser]

63. FAIL

.

[msallied]

2. The fact is, he DIDN'T choose Bayh. Didn't this occur to you?

[niyad]

5. and did it occur to you that this blue dog turncoat was actually under consideration?

he was on the damned short list--what part of that don't you get?

[msallied]

8. The question you should ask is why he was on the short list

and then NOT selected.

[WI_DEM]

44. As he was on the short list of other dem candidates in 2000 and 2004 why?

because he is a successfully re-elected senator from a traditionally GOP state. You obviously don't understand how politics works and just want to whine for political perfection and won't be happy unless somebody like Dennis Kucinich is the president and then see if he is able to deliver on his agenda.

[OhioBlue]

71. he didn't choose him.

get over it.

[hileeopnyn8d]

85. Gore/Lieberman 2000

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. And Bush didn't nuke Iran. What's your point?

I don't put much stock in the OP but since the poster knows Bayh is not the Vice President it probably occurred to him/her.

[msallied]

9. The OP is irrelevant. I ALMOST got into a car accident the other day.

Do I want to sit and thinking about how I "almost" wrecked my car, or just be thankful I didn't and move on?

[jonnyblitz]

23. that he was even CONSIDERED speaks VOLUMES.

you analogy is lame because your almost car wreck was out of your hands. consideration of a VP is an active CHOICE. WHY would Obama even consider this man? STUPID STUPID ANALOGY you give.

[msallied]

25. AND HE WASN'T SELECTED!!!

[treestar]

56. So were you one of the ones worried that Obama would lose the election

due to his consideration of this man?

:wtf:

If a company even considers you for a job, does that make that company stupid and deserving of failure? :rofl:

[Cha]

58. They're the ones

who look for any negative distraction for the President and chew on it like a rottweiler.

[niyad]

65. as I have said, blind, unquestiioning, uncritical loyalty, and snarling at anyone who dares to even

hint that one's hero has feet of clay is disturbing, no matter who does it.

no, he hasn't bombed iran, but he's doing quite a job on one of our allies (pakistan, in case you didn't know)

but, since you seem to need the comfort of believing him to be the alpha and omega, you go right ahead. whatever bankie works for you.

[Cha]

88. The Obama haters are the ones who are

little snarlers.

[grantcart]

91. I joined in the reply with your here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8723967&mesg_id=8725498

[grantcart]

90. well opposition to unquestioning loyalty (in itself a strawman because no one is advocating

unquestioning loyalty) does not allow you to post idiotic criticisms of things that did not happen and not get branded as agressively stupid.

Bayh was on a list for obvious reasons

1) An obvious sop to Clinton forces

2) Try and firm up the close race in Indiana.


It was obvious at the time that he wasn't seriously considered.


This may be a revelation but there are many things that happen in a campaign that are purely cosmetic in nature.


Now you may untwist your undergarments over criticizing Obama for a hypothetical situation that never resulted in an actual decision.


I know that you have a quota of anti-Obama screeds to make but we simply can't excuse this desperate mumbo jumbo, you will now be requred to post three anti Obama threads tomorrow that are at a minimum based on an actual decision that the President has made. And no you can't include anything that Bo did during Halloween.

[Cha]

92. lol!

No slamming Bo!

[hileeopnyn8d]

83. Really?

Using that logic (and that of the OP) Al Gore is a Republican who wanted John McCain to win the election because he CHOSE Joe Lieberman as VP.

It would also mean Al Gore is against healthcare reform. Al Gore supports a republican filibuster on healthcare reform, and Al Gore thought it was just dandy that we violate the Geneva Conventions.

See how stupid THAT is?

[DefenseLawyer]

3. Unless you are a moron who wants the VP to actually do your job

The VP can have as much or as little power and influence as the President wants. Bayh was a safe pick who would guarantee him Indiana and not lose him any votes anywhere else. Sure he's a tool, but plenty of VPs have been tools. After the election you lock him away for B list State Funerals and ties. I can't fault the consideration, although I am glad they chose otherwise.

[msallied]

11. Thank you! Obama likely saw only a short-term gain and a long-term loss.

[polichick]

22. Except the veep is first in line to become prez - way too close for comfort in Bayh's case. nt

[msallied]

24. Again, which is why he likely wasn't selected.

He wasn't right for the job so he wasn't selected.

[polichick]

27. It's good he wasn't of course - but imo he should never have been...

...close, much less just a coin's toss away (as Obama reportedly put it). Creepy.

[msallied]

30. Again I'm thinking it was more of a political selection than anything.

Bayh had been vying for a VP slot for a lot of years. I think he threw the man a bone. I agree, it would have been a horrible choice, and I know I can't read Obama's mind any better than anyone else here, but I don't think we were in any real danger of having him as VP. It's just that in cases like this, when you have someone like Bayh who clearly wants it and has wanted it for a long time, and who you might want to eventually have on your side after you reject him (which, clearly, it didn't work out in Obama's favor that way), you go through the motions of making it look like there is a tough choice between him and, say, Biden.

[ClarkUSA]

10. I'm glad Pres. Obama nixed DLC darlings Hillary AND her top campaign surrogate Bayh for VP...

More hope, less disappointment.

[msallied]

13. I think people like to sit and look for reasons to be disappointed. It's like a career for them.

In a world where there ARE plenty of things to be disappointed about, someone chooses to get upset over a VP candidate Obama had on a list but didn't eventually select.

[ClarkUSA]

20. Of course. Pathetic, isn't it?

You can always tell who has a shit-stirring agenda by the self-righteous nonsense they spout over and over again.

[niyad]

67. since you know nothing about me except your assumptions, you go right on making them.

remd i95

[Cha]

17. OT..

Where in the heck have you been!:bounce::D

Did I just not see you board?B-)

[firedupdem]

14. more bullshit posts is more like it. unrec n/t

[Cant trust em]

15. Who cares? He's not the VP. nt

[geek tragedy]

26. He almost made a mistake.

Get the fainting couch ready.

[dionysus]

34. i'll fetch the smelling salts, you grab the brandy...

[vaberella]

28. Almost but we didn't. Let's move on...since the shit is over. n/t

[WeDidIt]

29. Waaah!

:eyes:

[dionysus]

33. holy shit, someone write the white house right away...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

35. And you almost had a point.

[depakid]

37. Not surprising at all- just more confirmation that Obama represents the center right of the party

[ClarkUSA]

38. No, his nixing of ex-DLC chairman Bayh & ex-DLC chairman's wife Hillary for VP means the opposite.

Thank goodness we don't have a warmonger for VP. It's bad enough that as SoS Hillary is ratting her saber for a big McChrystal surge
in troops. I'm glad VP Biden is there to push for something saner in the opposite direction.

[depakid]

40. Of the apparent choices, Biden was no doubt the most appropriate

That said- who was and was not considered confirms the center right bent of the administration from the outset. The policies essentially reflect Rockefeller Republican material.

Historically Rockefeller Republicans were moderate or liberal on domestic and social policies. They typically favored New Deal programs, welfare, and civil rights—usually promising to run them more efficiently than the Democrats. They were strong supporters of big business. In fiscal policy they favored balanced budgets and relatively high tax levels. They sought long-term economic growth through entrepreneurship, not tax cuts. In state politics, they were strong supporters of state colleges and universities, low tuition, and large research budgets. They favored infrastructure improvements, such as highway projects.

[ClarkUSA]

43. That's right. However...

I disagree with you that there's been a "center right bent" to this administration "from the outset". There's been plenty
of legislation proposed and pushed by this White House and its allies in Congress that have met with firm resistance from
the Chamber of Commerce, Republicans, the insurance industry and/or Blue Dog DLC Democrats like Evan Bayh (off the
top of my head, I can name a few: the public option; credit card reform; Wall Street consumer protection oversight;
withdrawing the anti-trust exemption for insurance companies; capping executive pay for TARP participants and
extending unemployment and COBRA benefits).

[depakid]

47. Hard right Republicans have always fought the Rockefeller wing

Now they're simply doing so from the far right wing of the Democratic party- along with their allies with "R's" behind their name.

The credit card joke of a law was a very good example of that... as was the failure of bankruptcy cramdown.

[mkultra]

80. this coming from our wingnut brigade.

[WI_DEM]

42. Yeah and guess what? he was also on Kerry and Gore's short list

So what do you make of that? and of course he was on the short list since he is from a key state and was a supporter of HRC.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

45. Since Gore and Kerry picked the two biggest assholes on the planet...

...the rule is just that the biggest asshole on the planet has to be on the short list.

[WI_DEM]

46. It's silly to be attacking Obama on somebody he didn't even select

so what if he was on the shortlist? he is from a state the Dems had wanted to take from the GOP (and Obama did it without him), and he was a supporter of Hillary's, so he was considered, too, as a gesture towards her supporters. The bottom line is he selected Biden. I tell you people here will find anything to moan and groan about.

[Thrill]

49. Oh Please. VP picks are about strategy for winning.

[niyad]

54. I would think that the last eight years would have shown us the fallacy of that kind of thinking

[treestar]

57. This four years could have shown us that too

If McStupid had made a better VP pick.

[burning rain]

51. Bayh? Man, that would've been bad.

An absurd union of apparent opposites that would've made both partners look foolish, as with Mike Dukakis and Lloyd Bentsen.

[FrenchieCat]

59. Lemme see....the last 3 Democratic Candidates who picked Veeps were.....

Gore, who picked Lieberman.
Gosh, Gore picked that asshole modern day turn coat Benedict Arnold and didn't even make it to the White House! Now that WAS a disappoinment!

Kerry, who picked Edwards.
Gosh, Kerry picked that cheating ass, paternity denying, double talking Hedge fund money taking loser John Edwards! Now that WAS a disappoinment!


Obama, who picked Biden. Gosh, they won!
Now see, that's change that we have to believe in, cause it fucking happened!


In my book, retracing our steps just left in history, I would say,
Obama appears to be less disappointments, and much of it fueled by Hope...
and thus far, we are getting somewhere.....and then there is the next 3 years.

eat that, chew on it, and then swallow.

[Jennicut]

66. Joe was a homerun compared to the last two Dem VP candidates.

Who cares about Evan Bayh? Obama made the right decision...and now I get to hear our VP say he doesn't care what Cheney thinks (which he said today). :)

[JTFrog]

60. You coulda got Sarah Palin!

Nothing like sucking on today's dose of daily drama.

So which gives the bigger hate rush? That according to the fuckwit trying to leach your tabloid pocket money this month Obama almost picked Bayh or didn't pick Clinton because of Bill?

Not only are you easily parted with your money but apparently you'll offer up your emotions to the lowest bidder too.

You've been played.

[niyad]

68. wow, such wonderful snark-I have to wonder who pissed in your cocoa puffs today.

I don't read the tabloids, and find it fascinating that it is okay to have so many threads about not picking hillary because of bill--but gee, nobody can offer an opinion on obama even thinking about picking a big pharma whore as vp

seems like I struck a serious nerve.

remdi95

[JTFrog]

72. Critiquing your own OP I see. Snark and pissy cocoa puffs.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

So you fell for one of the masters who was out to separate you and your money over your emotions. It happens all the time.

It's pretty good free entertainment for those of us who understand there is a process that happens every election cycle. We prefer to watch it happen to the opposition. Unfortunately this time around it's pretty hard to tell which side some folks were on.

[niyad]

75. ah, I see you can dish, but you can't take--about as expected.

you have a hard time with reading comprehension as well. nobody separated me from my money. what part of that do you not understand?
but that's okay--so glad to have provided amusement for your little world today.

remdi95

[JTFrog]

82. I can't see your pocket book from here. But you sure put those emotions on display!

What part of that do you not understand?

Nothing wrong with my reading comprehension.

And thanks.

[LiberalFighter]

62. I'm thinking that some of us that provided our negative opinions when

he was out there as a Presidential hopeful and then for VP possibly had some influence in Obama's selection.

[elleng]

73. 'ALMOST' b,s,

[TheWebHead]

74. Bayh would have been brilliant

Like it or not, he's probably the favorite to top the ticket in 2016, with the tendency to move towards the center after 8 years of someone generally considered further on one ideological end... especially when the VP doesn't have plans on running. Ditto if Republicans win in 2012, there will be a centrist push to follow a 1 term president.

[niyad]

76. no, I don't like the fact that a big pharma corporate whore is considered one of the top choices.

sadly, that reflects more on the pathetic state of affairs in this country than anything else. definitely will not be voting for him.

[urgk]

84. Bayh would have caved to his wife's board members.

Who paid $2 million dollars for her allegiance. Bayh can give lip service to being a Democrat, but he's a Corprocrat through and through.

[mkultra]

78. Your a hater.

[Life Long Dem]

81. What if Chicken Little was never born?

:rofl:

[blm]

86. Bayh EXPECTED to be HRC's VP. Bayh would've been Obama's compromise with the Clinton wing

of the Dem party.

ConservaDems have FAR too much power in the Dem party the last twenty years.

[PopSixSquish]

87. I'd be More Surprised if Evan Byah Hadn't Been on the Short List

Folks are forgetting the timelines here. Yes, Obama eventually won Indiana but the polls in that state didn't start moving his way until much later in the fall not at the time he was making this decision. There were a lot of other states which were very, very close and McCain even led in some which Obama would eventually win.

The consideration of Evan Byah was strictly a political calculation based on a VP helping the ticket win a state which they needed.

And President Obama wasn't talking about healthcare reform during this period, the campaign was much more focused on foreign policy, particularly when Russia invaded Georgia in August 2008. So Joe Biden's foreign policy creds may have been the thing which put him on top.

And although there were stormclouds forming about the economy, the collapse didn't really start until Sept/Oct. Job creation and bringing down healthcare costs came to the forefront then and the voter's decision shifted away from foreign policy and McCain was dead in the water.

If you're looking for something to be outraged about, then I guess the fact that Evan Byah was on the short list for Obama (never mind that both Al Gore and John Kerry considered him as well) will do...

[mayya]

89. All politicians love Big Pharma.

That is what the health insurance "reform" is all about. Next they will take away Vitamins and other real health products, because that is what Big Pharma calls "reform."