President Obama's Dover Salute is an Iconic Image of his Presidency

[HopeOverFear]

Tom Matzzie:

We woke up this morning with images on cable news and the Internet of President Obama solemnly saluting as the casket of a fallen soldier was carried in honor from a C-17 in Dover back home into the United States. The president, through his visit, brought a national spotlight onto the grimmest reality of the war in Afghanistan.

This return would've otherwise gone without much notice just like the thousands before it. The images of America's troops returning from Iraq and Afghanistan in caskets have been few and far between in the eight years since the wars began. That fact has too often created distance between the American people and the military families who carry their grief.

President Obama didn't have to go to Dover. George W. Bush never went we're told. Obama could've stayed back at the White House and kept some distance from the war--almost suggesting it is the responsibility of the former president. But instead he chose to put himself firmly in front as the Commander in Chief. He chose to create an image that will likely endure through his presidency and as part of his legacy. What a dramatic contrast to images from the last presidency of George W. Bush flying over Katrina or "Mission Accomplished" day.

Unfortunately, although it is only a few hours since the president returned from Dover, we should expect that the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks of the world will start whining about the president's visit accusing him of exploiting the event. Their script is so predictable that I can write this just after 9 AM with confidence that they'll do it. But our president should always be reminding the American people of the sacrifice our troops make.

As of a few days ago October has been the deadliest month yet for the war in Afghanistan--with 54 American soldiers making the ultimate sacrifice.

No matter what your political views are or your position on the wars, we should never forget those making the ultimate sacrifice.

Mr. President, thank you for reminding all of us.

UPDATE: Sure enough, on cue, here come the right-wing critics. Liz Cheney claims that Bush would "do it without cameras." CBS's Mark Knoller, who is something of an official record-keeper of presidential activity, refutes her claim reporting that President Bush never went to Dover. My point isn't whether or not President Bush went. My point is that going, and going with cameras, is the RIGHT thing to do both to remind America of the sacrifice and to role-model a way to honor the troops.

PS: Wanted to add this comment from the article about the Dover visit on Huffpo:

Every one of you who says this was a photo op or he had this motive or that motive should be ashamed. Better yet, don't be ashamed. Get off your shoulders, get up from behind your keyboard, go down to your local recruiter and sign up. Come on over and see what it feels like to view these kinds of comments from the combat zone. This is from a real soldier on his third tour in Iraq. It doesn't matter what is going on politically. We may have our opinions and personal thoughts but it is our sworn duty to follow the orders of the President of the United States and the officers appointed over us. Good or bad, wrong or right. That is the job. I know President Obama is hurting. Everytime somebody gets killed or hurt he sees those reports in all their gory detail and I now he hurts because I am hurting. Nine months is not going to solve 8 years of mismanagement so get off his back, get behind him or just shut up and get out of the way.

[AllentownJake]

1. It was a nice gesture

A nicer gesture would be a withdrawal plan and not sending 40,000 more people over there.

[jonnyblitz]

3. no shit. he better fucking salute since he is the main reason

now they will be coming home in a box.

[jefferson_dem]

5. Classless ignorance...

You must be proud. :thumbsdown:

[pattmarty]

46. Hey, it's "his" war now. Whether you love or hate him, he now owns it.

[Chulanowa]

6. Which is, I think, why he did this

He signed the marching orders, and it appears he realizes he needs to face the results of that.

Bush never did this. Did Clinton do this for the men and women killed in F. Yougoslavia, and Haiti? Did Herbie Bush do this for the soldiers killed in Iraq or Somalia?

[Hippo_Tron]

10. No Americans were killed by enemy fire in Yugoslavia

There might have been some accidental deaths, but I can't remember.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

22. Clinton lost very few military personnel during the run of his whole administration.

From Factcheck.org http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/did_more_soldiers_die_during_bill_clintons.html
"According to the CRS, during the Clinton administration, one person in uniform died as a result of hostilities and another 75 died as a result of terrorist attacks."

[RamboLiberal]

31. Though Bush 41 sent the troops Clinton lost 18 in Somalia

At the Battle of Mogadishu(Blackhawk Down). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_(1993)

And the Repukes made a big stink about how the troops needed to be withdrawn.

[Hutzpa]

8. I find your comment offensive

and I think you should apologize....YES apologize.

[Skittles]

59. someone should aplogize for young soldiers coming home in boxes

[stevenleser]

11. Rarely has someone so completely earned a trip to my Ignore list

Sayonara

[HopeOverFear]

12. I don't know who you're referring to, but he/she/it's already on my ignore list

so thankfully I was spared from whatever it said.

[stevenleser]

19. Then you were spared a cocktail of vicious willful ignorance

and I consider you very lucky. ;-)

[HopeOverFear]

20. I know that's right lol I'm sorry you had to see it, though.

the ignore feature is your friend, man. :)

[Cha]

25. The usual stupid clueless

shit saying everything about them and nothing about their target.

[treestar]

14. Wouldn't that "main reason" be Bush?

[firedupdem]

15. What a disgusting comment. n/t

[Arkana]

16. How amazingly classy and not at all angry and stupid of you.

[vaberella]

18. Woah..you need some help. n/t

[SIMPLYB1980]

23. See this is why the far left deserve to be ridiculed

as much as the far right. :freak:

[jefferson_dem]

26. This is not the left. This is the loon.

n/t

[SIMPLYB1980]

27. Does that matter? Lots of them here.

Calling the troops cannon fodder and such. They say they are "the" left and by DU rules I can't call them trolls.

[jefferson_dem]

34. I hear you.

To me, loony left is just as nauseating as the rabid right. Fuck them both.

[DWilliamsamh]

61. +1

Here here!

[proteus_lives]

70. +1000!

My thoughts exactly!

[opihimoimoi]

24. WBush and the MFKING GOP is the main fucking REASON our boys coming home in coffins

Obama is trying to clean it up so them Talidudes don't end up with the NUKES...can we unnerstan dat?

[impik]

30. Oooops. Ignore list. Bye, you idiot.

[PopSixSquish]

33. You, Sir, are Beneath Contempt

Go to hell...

[ClarkUSA]

38. LOL! So says a gushing fan of Hillary (who wants a big troop surge a la Gen. McChrystal)

Still bitter, eh?

[dionysus]

39. gee, aren't yuo full of class... not

:puke:

[WeDidIt]

2. Every president should have to do that

* never did it. * never really felt the impact of what he was responsible for.

[Captain Hilts]

4. I know it goes back at least to FDR, but I don't like seeing non-uniform folks saluting. nt

[Arugula Latte]

7. Um, he's the Commander in Chief.

[Captain Hilts]

36. No shit, Sherlock. Think of a better way to insult my intelligence. nt

[tabatha]

9. I like the way he does not dress up like GWB.

[Captain Hilts]

37. Indeed! And also note how FDR - unlike Stalin and Churchill - wore no military garb.

Not an accident. For the same reason - until GWB's war - military personnel in DC often commuted to work in civilian clothes. We're not an armed city.

[Thothmes]

56. Not during WWII. The uniformed services personnel were

required to wear the uniform of their service during the war.

[stevenleser]

13. There is actually an approved civilian salute. It's just not generally understood as such

It's the same thing one typically does when reciting the pledge of allegiance, hand on heart.

[alsame]

32. That's what AG Holder did, now I know why. Thanks. nt

[liquid diamond]

42. It appears that he is doing it better than the

uniformed member to his left.

[NYC Liberal]

45. I thought it was Raygun who started the saluting thing.

In fact - I am positive of it.

http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/12/24/to-salute-or-not-to-salute-thats-obamas-question/

Quote

Longstanding tradition requires members of the military to salute the president. The practice of presidents returning that salute is more recent — Ronald Reagan started it in 1981.

Reagan’s decision raised eyebrows at the time. Dwight Eisenhower, a former five-star general, did not return military salutes while president. Nor had other presidents.

John Kline, then Reagan’s military aide and now a Minnesota congressman, advised him that it went against military protocol for presidents to return salutes.

Kline said in a 2004 op-ed piece in The Hill that Reagan ultimately took up the issue with Gen. Robert Barrow, then commandant of the Marine Corps.

Barrow told Reagan that as commander in chief of the armed forces, he was entitled to offer a salute — or any sign of respect he wished — to anyone he wished, Kline wrote, adding he was glad for the change.

[QC]

50. Yes, Reagan started it, and liberals hated it back then. n/t

[Justitia]

53. You might appreciate this op-ed: A Final Verdict on the Presidential Salute

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/01/opinion/01winfrey.html?_r=1&th&emc=th

published in yesterday's NY Times, by a former Marine

[DWilliamsamh]

62. Thanks for that....

As a veteran of the US Army, trained at West Point, I have said for the last twenty years that within the first two weeks of a new Presidency, a military protocol class should be mandatory (I know it can't be) for the new President so that he learns how and when to salute properly - or NOT AT ALL.

President Obama's salute was not only a sight for sore eyes of form, but appropriate in function. I am glad that the former Marine, agrees.

[vaberella]

17. I swear. Everytime I see that picture, I think I'm about to see my President start to cry.

And I'm not talking just a few tears, but a serious breakdown. He looks so affected and who wouldn't be. I cried when I saw the video.

[HopeOverFear]

21. I bawled my eyes out last night watching the video of it

not just because of Obama, but because of the fallen soldiers.

[vaberella]

44. Exactly. Same here...this is our youth.

Our future, just ending with a flick of a wrist. It's too much. It's just to much.

[alsame]

35. I think he was crying. If you look at the video his jaw seems so

clenched as they walk away. It looks like he's choked up and holding back tears.

I don't know how anyone could be there and not cry. How those soldiers carry their fallen without breaking down I can't even imagine. :cry:

[HopeOverFear]

40. I'm sure once he got back to Marine One he let it all out. n/m

[vaberella]

43. I noticed that..and the grimness in his face. Ugh...I'm going to start again.

It's like the healthcare debate. When I saw Grayson go on the house floor and make his 30 minutes speech. I couldn't eat...all I did was cry and cry and cry. To much unnecessary death. It's like this nation thinks we have an infinite amount of available hands. And what's worse is that this seems like a concentrated effort to desciminate the poor. Note that so many of our soldiers come from poor families or modest income families and then we send them off to take out other poor families in other parts of the world. It makes no sense. It's a war on poverty really, while using their own against them. This is not to say this is the Presidents itention. However, I wouldn't put it past the former President after Katrina.

And healthcare is running on the same gamut. This is too much for me. It's way too much. I appreciate that there is a light shining on this. A light shining on the casualties and pain of war, on widescale "death" of Americans due to lack of healthcare. All these are so interrelated it's even more frightenin. I need to take a break from this.

[Phx_Dem]

28. ...

Nine months is not going to solve 8 years of mismanagement so get off his back, get behind him or just shut up and get out of the way. Wow.

[HopeOverFear]

29. A soldier said that, too.

[TomCADem]

41. Thank you for acknowledging the sacrifice of these young men.

[Ysabela]

47. What an ignorant soldier.

"We may have our opinions and personal thoughts but it is our sworn duty to follow the orders of the President of the United States and the officers appointed over us. Good or bad, wrong or right. That is the job."

This is the mentality that permeates through the military. That it's their duty to follow orders no matter what, even if the order is illegal. That man is a DISGRACE to the uniform.

[Justitia]

52. You are wrong (and classless). Illegal orders? The ignorance is yours. -eom

[chimpyisstillsatan]

54. you beat me to it.

"it is our sworn duty to follow the orders of the President of the United States and the officers appointed over us. Good or bad, wrong or right."

uh, no. Note the final clause in that oath:

"I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. "

Read the UCMJ lately? Maybe it's time.

[Beartracks]

55. "Wrong or right" doesn't mean "legal or illegal." n/t

[chimpyisstillsatan]

58. parse it however you want,

but the undeniable implication was that orders should be followed regardless of their nature.

It didn't fly at Nuremberg either.

[stevenleser]

60. I think you might be reading too much into it.

I enlisted in 1989 and even back then, everyone who entered the armed forces got significant training in what was and was not a lawful order and it was explained in no uncertain terms that you have no requirement to obey an unlawful order and in some cases a duty to disobey.

[DWilliamsamh]

66. You sir, are a blithering idiot. (N/T)

[DWilliamsamh]

65. Hey asshole.... Why don't you give us a learned

According to UCMJ, run down on what constitutes a legal order? What is an illegal order? I am not interested in your pinhead opinion of this matter, but on an explanation of the controlling statutes - by which marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen are adjudicated. Unless I miss my guess you have been none of the above, and thus have not actually had to consider what a legal order actually is.

Enlighten us with your expertise. Until such time, you would do well to shut your mouth about matters about which you have no actual knowledge.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

68. Someone pee in your cornflakes today?

Nobody really gives a shit whether you're satisfied with anyone's knowledge of military jurisprudence. At least PRETEND you read the thread before applying the obligatory and uninteresting, thread killing DU coup de gras ("I demanded a treatise on some arcane factoid about which I know nothing and you didn't deliver, so I WIN!").

Why don't you be a good little geek, tie your jammie bottoms back up and toss that spunky kleenex where Mom won't see what you're doing down in the basement?

[DWilliamsamh]

69. I will take that as confirmation that you have no clue.

The post I was responding to was one decrying that there is a problem in the military with following orders - even illegal one's. My request was for some indication that the poster even knows what a legal order is. The lack of response means I was on target when I posited that the pin head in question had no basis in fact for their opinion that far too many in the military are following what he obviously believes to be illegal orders. It was a simple question: what constitutes a legal order? No treatise necessary.

Yes how dare I demand that people disparaging those who serve, actually have facts on their side and some clue what they are talking about. I can see why you would imply the I am the one being unreasonable.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

71. of course you will n/t

[DWilliamsamh]

72. And of COURSE you offer no argument or illumination

Just juvenile quips the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I." Go get your act together and then come back when you are ready to engage in conversation with those who don't agree with you on every point of every issue.

[chimpyisstillsatan]

74. so I guess you win.

your Mom must be so proud.

[jwirr]

48. I have lived through every war since WWII and I am proud of President

Obama for recognizing the service of our soldiers. He went there because he has to make a hard decision and he wanted all the facts even to see for himself the consequences of his orders. I personally think his face tells the story - his sadness shows.

[billh58]

64. +1000 n/t

[shadowknows69]

49. Doesn't make the war any more right. Or any closer to over.

[l8nitedave]

51. It doesn't matter

It doesn't matter what you think about the war, who started it, how it's going or what you think about the President. The fact is Americans owe every measure of respect and honor to these soldiers and their families every single time. It is not only because they deserve it. It is because we must look at that and think about it fully in order to properly access our own motives every time we send a soldier into harms way. People who wish to escape responsibility for their own actions may not appreciate the Presidents example of respect for these soldiers, but I think our service persons, their families as well as most Americans do.

[MadHound]

57. It is a picture of hypocrisy, honoring the dead soldiers

While sending more of the living into the meatgrinder for no good reason.

[bikingaz]

73. why is he saluting if he has never been in the military?

just wondering

[AspenRose]

63. .

"Nine months is not going to solve 8 years of mismanagement so get off his back, get behind him or just shut up and get out of the way."

:applause:

[ShortnFiery]

67. Good.

NOW stop these horrific occupations or OWN THEM as your own.