$1 Trillion for HCR over 10 years is less than a buck a day per adult.

[Perky]

Average family of for spends what $15 bucks a day for employer based coverage.

If Competion pushes prices down by what....just 7% they come out ahead and everyone gets insured.


This should not be a hard sell.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. CEOs' bonuses could fund it in a week

[truedelphi]

2. How is competition going to push any cost related to

Health Care down by Seven Percent?

What Competition? Where?

[Perky]

3. If the pulic options is cheaper and nore people being rquirered to get coverage

Should lower the overhead cost per individual getting private imsurance

[truedelphi]

6. Are you aware that the "Public Option"

Is the Health Insurance Version of the Federal Reserve - it is no more Public than Public Storage?

It will not be operated by the Federal Government, but by an insurer or some council of insurers.

It also doesn't kick in for several years, and will only support a fraction of those needing it.

And whatever "Seven Percent" price reductions come about - consider the fact that the insurers have already stated they plan on raising the premiums as soon as they get the "Reform" measure to pass. So after a twenty percent rate increase, they will probably not mind at all any sort of lowering in cost.

Besides which, are you aware that the Big Pharma people have gotten an agreement through the "Reform" bill that drugs will no longer go from patented to "generic" in a typical amount of time (Seven years, is it now?) but will remain under the patent purview FOREVER! With no possibility of generics!

And that the Big Pharma people squeeze out 2,000 to 8,200 PERCENT on the pills and other medicinal remedies that they are peddling - but that Obama successfully kept us so confused and so bewildered, as he ran around addressing the organized chaos called the "Tea baggers" all this summer that little in the way of discussion of how inherently Monopolistic the Health Industry is ever came about. The Health Industry is guilty of Price Fixing and Exploiting we the consumers to the max. Originally the Health care reform bill was going to allow for undoing the Anti Trust exemption allowed to the Insurers. But as more and moreof our legislators were willing to sell themselves out, taht too slipped away.

But please, if you truly are believing that at some point, we consumers are somehow going to be experience a miraculous 7 percent reduction, I have this ticket to Michael Jackson's upcoming concert tour that you might find of interest. I hear he rivals the dead in some of his new dance moves!

[jaxx]

7. I'll take the Michael Jackson ticket.......

and thanks!

[johnaries]

9. Here, read this and educate yourself.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21849473/CBO-House-Health-Care

As far as your claims about generics, do you have any references or links?

[truedelphi]

11. Ouch! Ouch! And Further Ouch!

By Page two of this Twenty Seven Page Summary I am already pulling my hair out.

The Powers that Be are counting on, according to their own disclosures on Page Two

ONE HUNDRED SIXTY SEVEN BILLION BUCKS COLLECTED FROM PEOPLE AS PENALTIES!

Let me please repeat that:

ONE HUNDRED SIXTY SEVEN BILLION BUCKS COLLECTED FROM PEOPLE AS PENALTIES!

This one hundred and sixty seven dollars in penalties will be collected out of the hides of normal Americans. And the people who are not penalized will be paying the premiums plus massive increases that the Health Insurance "providers" have already stated will be necessary (Or so the Big Insurers say) in order to have to insure so many Americans - many of whom the Big Insurers have already deemed as undesirable.

Anyway, I am having a beer and then will resume in on reading. Very interesting stuff, but hardly reassuring!

[johnaries]

10. Wait a minute, you're not talking about the Eshoo Amendment

are you? The amendment allowing new pathways for "bio-similars"? There is no "evergreening" clause in her amendment - there is actually an ANTI-evergreening clause. And the time period is 12 years, and that will NOT change.

[truedelphi]

12. Well then Jane Hamsher is wrong on her take on this also

House Health Care Bill: A Death Sentence For My Fellow Breast Cancer Survivors
By: Jane Hamsher Thursday October 29, 2009 10:30 am


I'm Jane, and I'm a breast cancer survivor
There was much celebration on Capitol Hill today with the announcement of the new House health care bill. For myself, as a three time breast cancer survivor, there was tremendous sadness and disappointment in the Speaker.

You can read the entire piece that influenced me (And the Header and first paragraph was posted above this line)at this URL:
http://tinyurl.com/yg6x7fn

And it is my understanding that Kucinich had his amendment scrapped for the odious measures Jane is talking about. And right now I see by going to Greatest Page right now on DU that Kucinich wants his amendment back. I tend to beleive in Kooch and not anyone else.

[doc03]

4. Why don't we ever hear what Iraq and Afghanistan

will cost us over the next 10 years and how it will be paid for? Here is a thought if Obama sends more troops to Afghanistan why doesn't Congress insist on a tax increase to pay for it? That would force the party of no to fail to support our troops?

[Hello_Kitty]

5. That's the gov't portion of it.

How much people pay out of pocket is what's going to sell it or not sell it.

[johnaries]

8. Actually, according to the CBO, HR3962 would REDUCE the

deficit by $104 billion by 2019. The revenue provisions generate more than the $900 bn costs.

[truedelphi]

13. The part that you do not get, and it is totally elementary,

My dear Watson! is that all these numbers are inflated.

If there was a government program being considered to pay for chicken eggs for every American who wanted chicken eggs, and the chicken eggs sales people were selling the eggs at $ 21 for a half dozen, what I as a thinking and very analytical person would require before I asked any Govenrment Office related to Budget Estimates to get out their little pencils and do their calculations - what I would want first of all is a discussion of the fact that the American egg eater had been robbed blind. And I would want discussions about how this occurred, and what legislation we needed to get eggs back to a reasonable price.

We have been gauged my friend. The Health Insurers have gauged us every step of the way. And we pay inflated premiums. We pay inflated costs for things like emergency room visits. We pay for inflated costs of surgeries. We pay for vastly inflated prices on drugs. When 2,000 to 82,000 PERCENT mark up on drugs is the norm, one has to wonder.

We needed to have a real discussion about these costs before we even started in on writing the damn legislation. Instead we had the manufactured chaos of the Teabaggers, with Obama fueling that fire by going around and addressing them. We had a President who said first we would have a public option, and then he said to Tea Baggers in Boulder Colorado, "Uh gee the public option is only one tool, and may not even be part of the final legislation."

The lack of ability of the Democratic leadership to make it clear what this bill means and all of the rest of it makes me feel that we're being screwed. Like I started out saying, the first step of all of all these "reform" efforts needed to be about cost rollbacks. But since the people in Congress need their big Sugar Daddies in the Big Health Care industries to offer them the campaign funding, it is not that shocking that this all ended up stinking to high heaven.

[mayya]

14. reform is being co-opted by the Big Pharma Cartel - a subsidy to buy their drugs

The Cartel's objective is profit, not health. Real reform requires breaking up the Cartel. The Cartel stays in power because of the FDA and donations to politicians on both sides of the aisle.