Obama Jobs! Obama Jobs! Vast money dump on community college system

[HamdenRice]

Just in case you're over-educated and under-employed, you should check out the recent press coverage of the effect of the stimulus bill on the community college system.

Private colleges have seen their endowments decimated. State colleges are embroiled in state budget cut politics. Neither sectors are hiring.

But community colleges, the red headed step children of higher education, are getting a massive influx of unemployed and underemployed students going back to school to re-tool and a massive money dump from the Stimulus bill, with more money on the horizon.

The administration plans to dump yet another $12 billion into the community college system in the next few years!

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/education/28community.html

The NY Times reports that some community colleges are so overwhelmed with returning students that they are scheduling classes from mid night till 2 AM. (Bill Moyers, "Now" interview with economist James Galbraith mentioned this phenomenon also.)

Those classes require teachers -- but not necessarily the kind to go into the "publish or perish" rat race of elite universities. Are you a Masters degree janitor or a software engineer with no software to write?

Check community college human resources pages. You'd be amazed at how many open positions there are.

If you are an under-employed engineer, mathematician or English major (people seem to be signing up in droves to learn to write better), you might find a good paying job at your local community college!

[WinkyDink]

1. As a former English major, I think "money dump" has a negative connotation.

[Cha]

5. a Huge influx of

money~:bounce:

[Buzz Clik]

9. So, what's the relationship between your major and "money dump"?

[ZombieHorde]

38. As an English speaking U.S. citizen, I think "money dump" has a negative connotation. nt

[jody]

2. It's possible distance learning or online courses will satisfy much of the demand but quality could

suffer since some/many/most schools have minimal standards that insure student Doe actually knows the material she/he is getting an "A" for taking online tests.

[Buzz Clik]

10. Not in my experience.

[oviedodem]

13. Let me respond. I work in the distributed learning dept at UCF (IT)

(University of Central Florida). We are responsible for the online programs and course growth and management at the university. The online/distance learning courses are TIED to the regional accreditation body. In our case it would be SACS. What this means is that our online courses are under the same standards as the face to face classes. Now, we go through extensive training of our instructors to ensure that the same level of quality in the f2f classes are present in the online world.

I have been at UCF since 2002 took 16 online courses for my masters degree, and can tell you that more students find the online classes harder than the classroom.

[RoyGBiv]

18. Agreed ...

We have far more students who start in online classes, find them too difficult, and transfer into a in-person class than the other way around.

Students, especially younger students, often find they need the more personal approach of a classroom environment to maintain. They also tend not to have the proper skills and discipline necessary for online courses.

Distance Ed is *not* "easy" or somehow lower in quality. If anything, it's more rigorous.

[jody]

24. Do schools accredited by SACS require at least one proctored comprehensive exam

over the entire course material for online courses?

If so, please provide a link to the SACS document that sets that standard.

[oviedodem]

31. There is no requirement, however most of our online courses are graduate level so

you find that most instructors use papers as the final; the same as the face to face. In addition, a LOT of classes do not do comprehensive exams, they use maybe the final chapter or something like that.

Online instructors for the exams tend to use essay type questions not multiple choice, that alone helps. When I did my online classes at Keller graduate scool/Devry, I did have a proctored final for every class. Research in the field indicates that in a lot of cases the online class without proctored finals yielded no difference in material learned when the students were tested afterwards with or without a proctor.

[jody]

32. Thanks for your reply. My concern is that anyone can do the work for student Doe in a 100% online

course.

Unless a school requires as an absolute minimum a student take a proctored exam over the entire course material, it's impossible for a school to know that student John/Jane Doe completed the required work.

SACS policy on this matter is SACS DISTANCE AND CORRESPONDENCE EDUCATION

Policy Statements
1. At the time of review by the Commission, the institution must demonstrate that the student who registers in a distance or correspondence education course or program is the same student who participates in and completes the course or program and receives the credit by verifying the identity of a student who participates in class or coursework by using, at the option of the institution, methods such as (1) a secure login and pass code, (2) proctored examinations, and (3) new or other technologies and practices that are effective in verifying student identification.

IMO a “(1) a secure login and pass code” does not guarantee that student John/Jane Doe takes an exam.

[oviedodem]

34. Correct. For example in the College of Business, they do all their

exams in a lab regardless if it is online or not. The bottom line is outside of a test, papers or any material that is not done in front of the instructor is subject to criticism.

[Whisp]

3. I am SO happy to hear this!!!!

this is magnificent wonderful news.

happy happy joy joy

[Cha]

4. Education, Jobs, Education, Jobs!!

Thanks Hamden!

[RoyGBiv]

6. I can confirm this ...

... at least in my personal world.

Our enrollment this semester experienced an increase noticeable just by walking the halls. And our parking situation has become absolute madness.

Another element to this that is, imo, being under-reported is the impact on CC infrastructure. Not only are we having trouble keeping the place staffed at appropriate levels, but we also have no more room. We could hire 100 teachers and the staff to support them, but we have no place for them to teach. One department and campus management where I work somehow (well, I know how ... it was chaos) went through the entire enrollment process without noticing that they had scheduled two classes at the same time (and filled each of them with students) and didn't have a room for both of them. They worked around it by "re-purposing" a room that had been used for storage, and the teachers were nice enough to work out an arrangement so their classes shared the inconvenience, but it's not ideal.

The question on the minds of the operations officers is whether to build. If we build, that creates other jobs and stimulates manufacturing. On the other hand, building can lead to over-building, and as the economy improves, those buildings and classroom additions and new parking areas and new bus routes may not be needed so desperately, which could create a backlash.

It's nice to have job security at the moment, but it's somewhat surreal.

[iamthebandfanman]

8. yup, ive gone back to a local CC

and enrollment has almost tripled since i attended back in 2001.

i was told my some of the staff that they almost doubled enrollment in just the last two years.

[RoyGBiv]

15. We jumped about 20% ...

... in one semester.

And this doesn't count continuing education, i.e. English as second language, people getting their GED, various programs like EMS, medical technology, etc.

The division of the CC where I work has five total buildings, only one of which is multi-floored, and it only has three floors. There are more people crammed in these buildings than lived in the town where I grew up. Of course, I grew up in a fairly small town, but we had lots of houses and a regional University that itself had about 30 buildings.

It's good to see so many people taking advantage of what's available, furthering their education, etc., but it sure has been a headache with how quickly this has happened.

Another thing helping this is the post-911 GI Bill. A lot of veterans started taking advantage of that this semester.

[Buzz Clik]

12. The impact of this will be felt for decades...

[HamdenRice]

17. Great news!!! nt

[paulk]

7. IOW - if you're an

"under-employed engineer, mathematician or English major", you can get a job teaching other "under-employed engineer, mathematician or English majors" a new career!

Yay!

While it's a good thing that the money is coming, what this really does is underscore how bad our current economy is...

[girl gone mad]

21. We definitely have a shortage of jobs for them to graduate in to.

I have a non-profit org. teaching Physics to advanced HS students from a low income area, and I worry about these kids. There are so many bright, talented, over-educated people in this country. There simply aren't enough jobs in these fields to support all of them. I feel like what we are doing is creating a world where a lot of middle class people compete with the rich and connected for a very small number of skilled middle class jobs, while those at the top maintain their stranglehold on our economy.

In college, my Russian friends would tell me about their families, full of brilliant mathematicians, engineers and musicians working as janitors and taxi drivers because of the depressed economy.

[ThomCat]

11. Community colleges are becoming holding centers

for people who are waiting for the economy to improve. But how long can they wait, and how long will people have the income to spend on Community College classes if jobs don't materialize eventually?

[tabatha]

14. Maybe, they'll start new companies.

[HamdenRice]

16. Or be more productive when things tick up, even if they don't start companies

I've known plenty of people who re-tooled in their thirties by going back to school who doubled or tripled their pay.

It's a little unfair to think of community colleges as simply "holding tanks" or "adult day care."

[RoyGBiv]

20. I think it's a misconception ...

... an extension of an old prejudice that says community colleges aren't "real" colleges.

It's true that a lot of people go there because they don't have anything else to do. In fact I've gotten to know an older student who takes classes with his wife every semester mostly because he's bored. He's a strong supporter of the school though and also sees it as his job. He will ask around the various departments looking for classes that are borderline on the make, which are usually classes held at odd hours put together for people who work for a living and go to school during their off-hours. He loves finding a situation where a class needs two more students to make, after which he and his wife immediately enroll and confirm the class.

Anyway, there is some of that and similar things, but I can say this. While students in general drive me up the wall due to the nature of my job (I'm in finances, the guy who reminds you that your bills must be paid and thus one of the most hated people on campus), I have never seen a more committed group of students as a whole as what's coming through now. It seems to be the case that many of these younger people who couldn't get into or couldn't afford a four-year university have seen what awaits them if they have no education or marketable skills, and they're at least trying to do something about it.

We've also established programs with high schools and four-year institutions where the students enter a program their junior year of high school, start taking college level courses with us, enroll in a full-time schedule for a year after graduation, and then go on to the university level once they've finished an associates degree. The high schools love it because it helps them offer advanced courses to their students who need or want them without impacting their budget. The universities love it because they get students who already have much of their general ed out of the way, leaving them more options in their own scheduling, as well as because they are getting students with some experience with college level work, which is very valuable. (Students coming to a university from a CC tend to do better than students coming straight out of high school, according to local universities with whom we work.) And, finally, the students love it because they get their education less expensively, with a more gradual transition from the "kid to adult" world, and do it all in less time.

The average age of our academic (non-continuing ed) enrollees is 19. That's not adult day-care. That's people trying to get an education.

[CTyankee]

36. I took a CC course in Italian and was astonished at how undisciplined and even rude

the younger students were. Not all of them of course, but a LOT of them. They were allowed to bring food from the cafeteria into class and they would regularly wolf down cheeseburgers and french fries during class. They talked loudly during the instructor's teaching, interrupting those of us who couldn't hear or were distracted by their conversations and "smart" remarks. They argued with the instructor over grades in front of everybody. One couple kissed and cuddled constantly during class. One guy seated next to me repeatedly glanced at my homework and parroted my work when asked a homework question by the instructor (and I by no means got everything right!). He said he didn't have time to do the homework.

I will never take another CC course again. I was totally embarrassed for the instructor...it was a horrible experience...

[ThomCat]

29. I'm not thinking of them as "simply" anything,

and I certainly am not saying anything derogatory about community colleges.

I am pointing out that people en mass are trying to find someplace that offers any benefit at all while they wait, someplace more useful that just sitting at home. Community colleges are becoming that place by default because they might offer some benefit (if future employers choose to value the additional CC education), and because they are affordable for anyone except the very poor. That makes them a holding tanks for out-of-work professionals who are waiting for the economy to put them back to work.

Temp agencies aren't going to be the holding place, like they were in the past, because temp agencies can't absorb even a small fraction of the out-of-work professionals. Four year colleges and Graduate schools aren't going to be the places where the vast amounts of people can go because out-of-work people won't be able to afford those places.

If you choose to see negative judgments in this that's entirely you. I'm seeing this just as descriptive and explanatory.

[rox63]

23. I heartily disagree - they are far from "holding centers"

I graduated from a community over 20 years ago. That little associate's degree helped me earn a nice living in the computer industry for the last 20 years. A little more than a year ago, I went back to school for a career change, and I'm also doing that at a community college. By this time next year, I'll have graduated with my second associate's degree, and I hope to begin the next chapter of my working life in a new field.

[ThomCat]

30. I am not disputing that people are learing things while they are there

or that they could go on to 4 year degrees and grad school or professional schools afterward. That is all certainly true, if people can afford all of that.

But, people aren't going to community colleges right now because it is their goal right now to be enrolled in community colleges. Their goal is to be employed again in professional jobs that pay well. Community colleges, for most people, are just the most productive and useful place available for them while those jobs aren't available.

When good jobs finally become available again and companies start hiring, community college enrollment will drop again just as quickly as it had increased. People won't see community colleges as quite so immediately useful or necessary compared to good job offers.

If the community college helps them earn better credentials, so that they can more easily get one of those good jobs when they are available again, that's wonderful. It doesn't change the fact that lots of people are only there because of the scarcity of jobs. They are waiting, and the local Community Colleges is their place to wait.

[HamdenRice]

33. When people go back to work, there will be an increased capacity at cc's for poor children

As I understand it, there is a short term plan and long term plan. Right now in NYC, about 50% of kids don't graduate from high school.

If we can drop those numbers substantially, then there will be a very large demand for seats in community colleges from kids who otherwise would not think of going to college.

At happened with the state college system in the post war era: "Build it and they will come."

[wisteria]

40. Congratulations.

Oh, and I am doing the same thing. In a new field also. I graduate this coming June.

[Nedsdag]

19. Good, I'm an adjunct instructor at two community colleges.

I want a full time position. Perhaps this will help my chances.

[impik]

22. Dude, Obama is remaking this country

10-15 years from now, people will begin to understand how brilliant he is.

[AdHocSolver]

25. Having earned a second degree from a community college 30 years ago, I am very impressed with them.

I made a career change to computers. The cost was less than half what it would be to attend a four-year college (my alma mater). I found the instructors very high quality, and the curriculum was very practical. Many of the students were older and had jobs, and were enhancing their skills or making a career change like myself.

There is one major difference between then and now. Back then, there were lots of job opportunities to look forward to. Millions of jobs had not been offshored to China or India.

What jobs will there be for all these new graduates in a couple of years, unless the job drain is not stemmed, and the offshored jobs are not returned to the U.S.?

The stranglehold on trade by the corporate cartels through instruments such as NAFTA, the WTO, the IMF, and the World Bank must be broken so that companies which want to employ Americans in their businesses will be able to compete against the multinational cartels.

This country has two years to turn things around before the ranks of the unemployed are swelled by a large number of new graduates. (If the job situation isn't turned around by then, the economy will collapse in any case, and the ensuing depression will be very ugly.)

[rox63]

28. I'm changing careers from computers to health care

A lot of the computer jobs are being sent overseas. After 20 years in that industry, I'm now training to be a respiratory therapist. I don't think they can offshore that. Anyway, this will be my second community college degree. I've been pleased with both of my experiences in the cc system.

[and-justice-for-all]

26. I go to a local community college and I like it very much..nt

[firedupdem]

27. Just today, in my local newspaper, the top story was the growth

of the community colleges in the area. I think it was something like a 17% increase in students.

[fromVT]

35. Great news!

Now let's see if adjunct instructors can get paid what they are worth, plus maybe even get a little respect.

It's unlikely CC's will create new full time positions for instructors. They'll create adjunct jobs, which they can easily eliminate if demand goes down.

Adjunct jobs are W-2 work, so they take out Social Security, but there are no other benefits. No health insurance, life insurance, paid time off, or anything else.

[toocoolforschool]

37. now i can go fro free!!!

[wisteria]

39. What do you mean by that comment?

I see nothing wrong with helping others to work towards a new trade or to update their skills so they may be able to once again become gainfully employed. Many are people who have been laid off due to job cuts. I think this is wonderful that Pres. Obama is giving people a chance and a leg up.